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1370Re: [biblicalapologetics] Re: Where does the NT abolish Exodus 22:18?

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  • Paul Leonard
    Jun 10, 2006
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      Hi Dave,

      See below:

      Dave Wave <empiricism101@...> wrote:
      > But the law on killing witches was given to
      > Jews/Israelites.

      (Dave) So was the law against adultery.

      (Paul) BUT the Law about adultery was restated as part of Christ's Law and the penalty was expulsion from the congregation Not Death. Christ's law now takes precedence.No mention of witches in the NT in regard to Christs Law..
      (Dave) What criteria do you employ to determine with ancient Israelite Laws apply to modern Christians and which don't?
      (Paul) Christians have been given specific laws as well as principles. Look at 1 Cor For example:
      1 Corinthians 6:9-10   9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God ? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,  10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God .
      Here we have a list of things that a Christian will no longer be involved in. Note if a Christian were to kill an adulterer as an example, how could Paul say that is whay "some of you were" above? He couldn't unless the old penalty was no longer in force. Here is an example of the direction NOW.
      1 Cor 5:11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”
      Note; it to quit associating with such a person and to "remove" the wicked man from amomg yourselves. This is excommunication. That is the penalty now, if repentance is not shown.
      (Dave)you believe "thou shalt not committ adultery" is for modern Christians, but not it's penalty of death, found in Leviticus 20:10.
      (Paul) That is  because the Old law of Moses has no effect any longer. The most anyone can argue is that it is still in force for Jews. Remember Circumcision is a part of that law also and what does Acts 15 say:
      Acts 15:24  24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: ...   28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;  29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
      Note Gentile Christians were not under the law as they did not have to get circumcised.
      (Dave) "If there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife, one who commits adultery with his friend's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

      If you still have to obey the adultery law, how can you abolish the punishment prescribed by the same?

      (Paul) Because we don't have to obey the "adultery Law" found in the OT.  It is no longer in force. Many of the old Law prohibitions have been restated in the NT and are inforce for Christians, but the penalty changed.
      (Dave) Is god just in a better mood now that Jesus has died for everybody?

      (Paul) No, but he made arrangements on the basis of His Son's sacrifice, which is so much better than the old animal sacrifices, so that he can extend mercy to sinners for a period of time. IF they repent they are forgiven, if not they are expelled from the congregation.
      (Dave) Yes, you are under the law. If you didn't obey any of the 10 commandments, you would be shunned by Christians, as apostle Paul says they should shun you. To say that you are not under the Law, but that you must suffer disfellowshiping if you don't obey those laws, is a contradiction.
      (Paul) But that is the NEW Law of Christ. The 10 Commandments are part of the Old Law given to Moses and in force ONLY on Jews and Jewish proselytes. That is why the penalty is expulsion or disfellowshipping. That is the NEW penalty to go with the NEW Law.The 10 Commandments are not in force.

      (Dave) You may as well insist that you are not under the speed limit law, and yet if you don't obey it, you'll still get a ticket just like everybody else does.
      (Paul) Uh Dave, I am under the NEW speed limit law. Remember the OLD one about not exceeding 55 MPH? Now we have a new speed law and in some places you can go 70 MPH or even more, with out breaking the NEW Law.

      (Dave) Apostle Paul's "not under the Law" doctrine is a total farce.
      (Paul) Then maybe you should  go kill a witch, if you think it is still God’s will. I don’t see it, as I know what the Bible says about it.

      > Maybe you should ask a Jew or even a messianic Jew
      > about it.

      (Dave) Nope, I'm asking modern-day Gentile Christians. Since there are lots of laws that were given to ancient Israelites which YOU hold to today, your argument that the law for killing witches being given to the Israelites doesn't suddenly mean that Gentiles aren't
      to observe it.

      (Paul) Sorry, Christians are under the NEW law of Christ.  Just gave you an example in Acts 15 where gentiles at least are not under the Law to be circumcised. 1 Corinthians 6 shows that certain practices are still to be avoided though the penalty has changed for Christians. I hold to none of the old laws of Israel , except those that have been RESTATED and have NEW sanctions listed with them.
      Remember under that old Law you had to give a tenth to the Temple Priests . So where are they? You had to go to the Temple and offer a sacrifice with the birth of each child, so where is the Temple to go to? You were unclean for many reasons according to that old Law, so should we follow EVERY jot and title of that law? Some are impossible to obey any longer as the Temple and the Priesthood no longer exist. Are you going to destroy your house if Mold is found in it? That was part of the Law as well. No repair, you tore it down. When was the last time you went to Jerusalem , built your booth and celebrated the feast of booths, according to the Law? That is all gone. New laws now.

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