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Re: Quint street Closure

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  • ivan
    This is the most direct route from Jerrold (near Flora Grubb) over across Newcomb to Silver Ave. It is a great way to connect over to 101, Paul Avenue, Silver
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 7, 2012
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      This is the most direct route from Jerrold (near Flora Grubb) over across Newcomb to Silver Ave. It is a great way to connect over to 101, Paul Avenue, Silver Terrace and the city beyond. It avoids significant traffic in the Produce market and a lot of the 3rd St lights if you are going to 101 South or over to Outer Mission.

      Losing this access route would be a shame. Meetings aside, is there a petition I can sign or someone I can write a letter to?

      Ivan

      --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, Chris Waddling <cawaddling@...> wrote:
      >
      > All pertinent details and contact information can be gotten through http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2011/11/sfcta-meeting-notes-oakdale-caltrain.html
      >
      > Even if you can't make it Monday, best to stay informed. I'll post to d10watch any updates or changes they are proposing.
      >
      > Chris
      >
      > -----
      > Chris Waddling
      > cawaddling@...
      > http://d10watch.blogspot.com
      >
      > On Jan 6, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Michael Hamman <mhamman@...> wrote:
      >
      > > The proposal to replace the Quint Street Bridge is actually a misnomer. The proposal is to Permanently Close Quint Street! The existing bridge will simply be replaced by a pile of dirt with no street under the tracks. All traffic will be diverted away from Quint Street. If such a change would effect you, or, if you feel that it is not OK to eliminate a street just because it is in the Bayview, then you should be sure to attend the PAC Land Use Committee meeting Monday night, 6;00 PM at the Southeast Center on Oakdale.
      > > --
      > > Michael Hamman
      > > 702 Earl Street
      > > San Francisco, CA 94124
      > > 415-643-1376 Office
      > > 415-265-0954 Cell
      > > mhamman@...
      > >
      >
    • Chris Waddling
      You can contact planning director Tilly Chang at the SFCTA: tilly.chang@sfcta.org ... Chris Waddling cawaddling@gmail.com http://d10watch.blogspot.com
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 7, 2012
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        You can contact planning director Tilly Chang at the SFCTA:


        On Jan 7, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "ivan" <hulagun66@...> wrote:

         

        This is the most direct route from Jerrold (near Flora Grubb) over across Newcomb to Silver Ave. It is a great way to connect over to 101, Paul Avenue, Silver Terrace and the city beyond. It avoids significant traffic in the Produce market and a lot of the 3rd St lights if you are going to 101 South or over to Outer Mission.

        Losing this access route would be a shame. Meetings aside, is there a petition I can sign or someone I can write a letter to?

        Ivan

        --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, Chris Waddling <cawaddling@...> wrote:
        >
        > All pertinent details and contact information can be gotten through http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2011/11/sfcta-meeting-notes-oakdale-caltrain.html
        >
        > Even if you can't make it Monday, best to stay informed. I'll post to d10watch any updates or changes they are proposing.
        >
        > Chris
        >
        > -----
        > Chris Waddling
        > cawaddling@...
        > http://d10watch.blogspot.com
        >
        > On Jan 6, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Michael Hamman <mhamman@...> wrote:
        >
        > > The proposal to replace the Quint Street Bridge is actually a misnomer. The proposal is to Permanently Close Quint Street! The existing bridge will simply be replaced by a pile of dirt with no street under the tracks. All traffic will be diverted away from Quint Street. If such a change would effect you, or, if you feel that it is not OK to eliminate a street just because it is in the Bayview, then you should be sure to attend the PAC Land Use Committee meeting Monday night, 6;00 PM at the Southeast Center on Oakdale.
        > > --
        > > Michael Hamman
        > > 702 Earl Street
        > > San Francisco, CA 94124
        > > 415-643-1376 Office
        > > 415-265-0954 Cell
        > > mhamman@...
        > >
        >

      • ivan
        Thanks, Chris.
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 8, 2012
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          Thanks, Chris.

          --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, Chris Waddling <cawaddling@...> wrote:
          >
          > You can contact planning director Tilly Chang at the SFCTA:
          >
          > tilly.chang@...
          >
          > -----
          > Chris Waddling
          > cawaddling@...
          > http://d10watch.blogspot.com
          >
          > On Jan 7, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "ivan" <hulagun66@...> wrote:
          >
          > > This is the most direct route from Jerrold (near Flora Grubb) over across Newcomb to Silver Ave. It is a great way to connect over to 101, Paul Avenue, Silver Terrace and the city beyond. It avoids significant traffic in the Produce market and a lot of the 3rd St lights if you are going to 101 South or over to Outer Mission.
          > >
          > > Losing this access route would be a shame. Meetings aside, is there a petition I can sign or someone I can write a letter to?
          > >
          > > Ivan
          > >
          > > --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, Chris Waddling <cawaddling@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > All pertinent details and contact information can be gotten through http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2011/11/sfcta-meeting-notes-oakdale-caltrain.html
          > > >
          > > > Even if you can't make it Monday, best to stay informed. I'll post to d10watch any updates or changes they are proposing.
          > > >
          > > > Chris
          > > >
          > > > -----
          > > > Chris Waddling
          > > > cawaddling@
          > > > http://d10watch.blogspot.com
          > > >
          > > > On Jan 6, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Michael Hamman <mhamman@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > The proposal to replace the Quint Street Bridge is actually a misnomer. The proposal is to Permanently Close Quint Street! The existing bridge will simply be replaced by a pile of dirt with no street under the tracks. All traffic will be diverted away from Quint Street. If such a change would effect you, or, if you feel that it is not OK to eliminate a street just because it is in the Bayview, then you should be sure to attend the PAC Land Use Committee meeting Monday night, 6;00 PM at the Southeast Center on Oakdale.
          > > > > --
          > > > > Michael Hamman
          > > > > 702 Earl Street
          > > > > San Francisco, CA 94124
          > > > > 415-643-1376 Office
          > > > > 415-265-0954 Cell
          > > > > mhamman@
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Chris Waddling
          Michael, In what room will this be held? It appears the HPSCAC meeting is in Pitcher tonight, but I don¹t see anything about the PAC Land Use meeting on
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 9, 2012
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            Re: [betterbayview] Quint street Closure Michael,

            In what room will this be held?  It appears the HPSCAC meeting is in Pitcher tonight, but I don’t see anything about the PAC Land Use meeting on their agenda, and can’t find mention of the PAC meeting anywhere, on the IBNA website or elsewhere (also, the http://www.bvhp-pac.org/ site seems to now be someone’s analysis of a video game).

            Thanks,
             
            Chris Waddling
            http://d10watch.blogspot.com



            From: Michael Hamman <mhamman@...>
            Reply-To: Better Bayview <betterbayview@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:53:49 -0800
            To: Better Bayview <betterbayview@yahoogroups.com>, IBNA Membership <indiabasin@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [betterbayview] Quint street Closure

             
             
             
               

               
            The proposal to replace the Quint Street Bridge is actually a misnomer.  The proposal is to Permanently Close Quint Street!  The existing bridge will simply be replaced by a pile of dirt with no street under the tracks.  All traffic will be diverted away from Quint Street.  If such a change would effect you, or, if you feel that it is not OK to eliminate a street just because it is in the Bayview, then you should be sure to attend the PAC Land Use Committee meeting Monday night, 6;00 PM at the Southeast Center on Oakdale.
             
            --
            Michael Hamman
            702 Earl Street
            San Francisco, CA 94124
            415-643-1376 Office
            415-265-0954 Cell
            mhamman@...
             
             
               


          • Mendell Studio
            Is this tonight 6pm? Closing yet another street in that immediate area is outrageous. ________________________________ From: Michael Hamman
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 9, 2012
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              Is this tonight 6pm? Closing yet another street in that immediate area is outrageous.


              From: Michael Hamman <mhamman@...>
              To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com; IBNA Membership <indiabasin@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Fri, January 6, 2012 4:53:49 PM
              Subject: [betterbayview] Quint street Closure

               

              The proposal to replace the Quint Street Bridge is actually a misnomer.  The proposal is to Permanently Close Quint Street!  The existing bridge will simply be replaced by a pile of dirt with no street under the tracks.  All traffic will be diverted away from Quint Street.  If such a change would effect you, or, if you feel that it is not OK to eliminate a street just because it is in the Bayview, then you should be sure to attend the PAC Land Use Committee meeting Monday night, 6;00 PM at the Southeast Center on Oakdale.

              -- 
              Michael Hamman
              702 Earl Street
              San Francisco, CA 94124
              415-643-1376 Office
              415-265-0954 Cell
              mhamman@...
              

            • Michael Hamman
              It will be at the Southeast Center - probably in the basement Michael Hamman 702 Earl Street San Francisco, CA 94124 415-643-1376 Office 415-265-0954 Cell
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 9, 2012
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                It will be at the Southeast Center - probably in the basement
                Michael Hamman
                702 Earl Street
                San Francisco, CA 94124
                415-643-1376 Office
                415-265-0954 Cell
                mhamman@...
                

                On 1/9/2012 11:58 AM, Chris Waddling wrote:
                 

                Michael,

                In what room will this be held?  It appears the HPSCAC meeting is in Pitcher tonight, but I don’t see anything about the PAC Land Use meeting on their agenda, and can’t find mention of the PAC meeting anywhere, on the IBNA website or elsewhere (also, the http://www.bvhp-pac.org/ site seems to now be someone’s analysis of a video game).

                Thanks,
                 
                Chris Waddling
                http://d10watch.blogspot.com


                From: Michael Hamman <mhamman@...>
                Reply-To: Better Bayview <betterbayview@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:53:49 -0800
                To: Better Bayview <betterbayview@yahoogroups.com>, IBNA Membership <indiabasin@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: [betterbayview] Quint street Closure

                 
                 
                 
                   

                   
                The proposal to replace the Quint Street Bridge is actually a misnomer.  The proposal is to Permanently Close Quint Street!  The existing bridge will simply be replaced by a pile of dirt with no street under the tracks.  All traffic will be diverted away from Quint Street.  If such a change would effect you, or, if you feel that it is not OK to eliminate a street just because it is in the Bayview, then you should be sure to attend the PAC Land Use Committee meeting Monday night, 6;00 PM at the Southeast Center on Oakdale.
                 
                --
                Michael Hamman
                702 Earl Street
                San Francisco, CA 94124
                415-643-1376 Office
                415-265-0954 Cell
                mhamman@...
                 
                 
                   


              • Vaughn, Carla
                Good Afternoon, The HPCAC meeting is scheduled in the Alex Pitcher Jr. Community Room from 5 pm to 8 pm. The Land Use-PAC meeting is scheduled for the SECFC
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 9, 2012
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                  Good Afternoon,

                   

                  The HPCAC meeting is scheduled in the Alex Pitcher Jr. Community Room from 5 pm to 8 pm.  The Land Use-PAC meeting is scheduled for the SECFC Conference Room, Suite B. from 6 pm to 8 pm.

                   

                  Hope this helps.

                   

                  Carla Vaughn

                  Executive Secretary II

                  Southeast Community Facility Commission

                  1800 Oakdale Avenue, Suite B

                  San Francisco,  CA  94124

                  (415) 821.1534 office

                  (415) 821.1627 fax

                  e-mail: cvaughn@...

                   

                  From: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com [mailto:betterbayview@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Waddling
                  Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 11:59 AM
                  To: Better Bayview
                  Cc: Michael Hamman
                  Subject: Re: [betterbayview] Quint street Closure

                   

                   

                  Michael,

                  In what room will this be held?  It appears the HPSCAC meeting is in Pitcher tonight, but I don’t see anything about the PAC Land Use meeting on their agenda, and can’t find mention of the PAC meeting anywhere, on the IBNA website or elsewhere (also, the http://www.bvhp-pac.org/ site seems to now be someone’s analysis of a video game).

                  Thanks,
                   
                  Chris Waddling
                  http://d10watch.blogspot.com


                  From: Michael Hamman <mhamman@...>
                  Reply-To: Better Bayview <betterbayview@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:53:49 -0800
                  To: Better Bayview <betterbayview@yahoogroups.com>, IBNA Membership <indiabasin@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: [betterbayview] Quint street Closure

                   
                   
                   
                     

                     
                  The proposal to replace the Quint Street Bridge is actually a misnomer.  The proposal is to Permanently Close Quint Street!  The existing bridge will simply be replaced by a pile of dirt with no street under the tracks.  All traffic will be diverted away from Quint Street.  If such a change would effect you, or, if you feel that it is not OK to eliminate a street just because it is in the Bayview, then you should be sure to attend the PAC Land Use Committee meeting Monday night, 6;00 PM at the Southeast Center on Oakdale.
                   
                  --
                  Michael Hamman
                  702 Earl Street
                  San Francisco, CA 94124
                  415-643-1376 Office
                  415-265-0954 Cell
                  mhamman@...
                   
                   
                     

                • Jim Hunger
                  Michael, thank you so much for your erudite and assertive statement of the issues and concerns around the proposed changes on Quint Street. I went to argue
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jan 10, 2012
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                    Michael, thank you so much for your erudite and assertive statement of the issues and concerns around the proposed changes on Quint Street. I went to argue against the closure, but you stated the case so well, and from a position of some authority, that I felt no need to add anything, especially considering time constraints.

                     

                    I especially appreciated your personal investigation of the problems with the alternative route creating problems with the development planned on Rankin, and the concern about Quint being closed before the proposed new route is either opened or at least a done deal. I have reservations about them proposing a substandard, narrowed passageway, and then after closing the current route, dumping the alternative as well for not being viable.

                     

                    Jim

                  • Jim Hunger
                    Just to be clear, I am referring to Michael Hammond. I don t know if we have any other Michaels on Better Bayview. Jim ________________________________ From:
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jan 10, 2012
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                      Just to be clear, I am referring to Michael Hammond. I don't know if we have any other Michaels on Better Bayview.
                       
                      Jim


                      From: Jim Hunger <jimhunger@...>
                      To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tue, January 10, 2012 10:35:47 AM
                      Subject: Re: [betterbayview] Quint street Closure

                       

                      Michael, thank you so much for your erudite and assertive statement of the issues and concerns around the proposed changes on Quint Street. I went to argue against the closure, but you stated the case so well, and from a position of some authority, that I felt no need to add anything, especially considering time constraints.

                       

                      I especially appreciated your personal investigation of the problems with the alternative route creating problems with the development planned on Rankin, and the concern about Quint being closed before the proposed new route is either opened or at least a done deal. I have reservations about them proposing a substandard, narrowed passageway, and then after closing the current route, dumping the alternative as well for not being viable.

                       

                      Jim

                    • Chris Waddling
                      Last night I attended the HPS PAC Land Use meeting, at which the future (or lack thereof) of Redevelopment Agencies was discussed, as was the landscaping plan
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jan 10, 2012
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                        Re: [betterbayview] Quint street Closure Last night I attended the HPS PAC Land Use meeting, at which the future (or lack thereof) of Redevelopment Agencies was discussed, as was the landscaping plan for Third at Cargo Way.  The issue that got me to the meeting was the proposed closure of Quint St at the Caltrain overpass.

                        To refresh your memory, there are four separate projects:

                        1. Proposed Oakdale Ave Caltrain station

                        2. Quint St bridge 

                        3. Jerrold Ave bridge (completed)

                        4. Quint/Jerrold connector road




                        We were told by SFCTA Assistant Planning Director Tilly Chang that a 2005 study indicates that the site could just barely accommodate a station at Oakdale Ave.  The station design that was thought to be best had two outer platforms with two tracks side by side between them.  This study took into account electrification, the bullet train, and local service.  From the final report <http://www.sfcta.org/images/stories/Planning/CaltrainOakdaleStation/PDFs/bayviewoakdalecaltrainstudy-finalv2.pdf>  from that study,

                         



                        "With the two-platform option, the platforms could be built initially at a narrower width of 20 feet, and then widened to 30 feet when the additional third and fourth tracks were built. This would also allow the Quint Street Bridge replacement to be built at a narrower width, then if necessary, widened in the future to accommodate third and fourth tracks."


                        Fast forward to 2012.  There is $25M in the pot to replace the Quint St. bridge.  To replace it in-kind, "at a narrower width", as was done at Jerrold Ave., would cost $25M.  To design it such that it can be "widened in the future to accommodate third and fourth tracks", and this is the very plan that was recommended in the 2005 report.  However, according to Ms. Chang, this option is no longer on the table.  What?!?  Another option, to replace the bridge with one already wide enough to accommodate all four sets of tracks would be $35M, but the extra $10M is nowhere to be found.  According to Ms. Chang, this leaves us with only one solution: close Quint St., erect a 20' high earthen berm across it, and divert Quint along the western edge of the train tracks so that it meets up with Jerrold right at the Produce Market and the soon-to-be-reconfigured Jerrold/Rankin/Kirkwood/Innes intersection.  According to Ms. Chang, this plan would cost $25M.  Or would it?  

                        To erect the berm and put tracks on top is proposed to be $20M.  The remaining $5M from the pot of money would then have to get transferred to another agency, DPW I believe, to do the work on the Quint/Jerrold connector road.  According to Ms. Chang, to do this might cost $5M, but it might also be $6M, or $7M, or $8M, depending on what they find in the soil and what remediation needs to be done.  The $5M might also get snapped up by another cash-strapped agency or project, leaving us with no connector road at all.  This was a concern leveled by Linda Richardson, chair of the BVHP PAC Land Use committee, and one that we ought to take very seriously.

                        After much discussion about the berm plan, including ridiculous interjections by some bureaucrat who claimed that no one will miss Quint being closed because it's always flooded out in the wintertime anyway, I asked, "Why has there been no mention of the option to replace the bridge in-kind for $25M with one that can be expanded in the future when a station is approved to be built?"  Ms. Chang's response was that this option was off the table because it didn't allow for the station, despite this being the very plan that the 2005 final study indicates is the best option.  Ms. Richardson quickly shut down this line of discussion, saying something about being concerned we'd lose the station if we did this and also something about the SFPUC's plans for the digesters on the east side of the track benefiting from closure of Quint. 

                        Missing from the berm and Quint/Jerrold connector road plans presented last night, which by the way were identical to those proposed at the November community meeting <http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2011/11/sfcta-meeting-notes-oakdale-caltrain.html> , was any mention of the SF Produce Market's plans to reconfigure Jerrold Ave traffic on the west side of the bridge so that it is diverted around the market onto Kirkwood and Innes Aves.  The berm/connector plan creates a complicated intersection for the proposed Quint/Jerrold connector road, as it would then put drivers squarely into the new Rankin/Kirkwood/Innes interchange that comes with the Produce Market's plan.  The DPW rep at last night's meeting was just as unprepared to answer Michael Hamman's question about how this would be addressed as he was when I asked it of him two months ago.  If DPW is to take the lead on this phase of any project, I'm scared.

                        Without question, the 100-year old Quint St bridge is a safety concern, and it must be replaced as soon as possible.  If the bridge fails as a result of all these delays in its replacement, it's not going to be a pedestrian or car driver who gets killed, but rather hundreds of Caltrain riders plunging to the street below, followed by a months-long service elimination on the line.  As such, it is up to Caltrain to replace the bridge, which they're rightfully anxious and ready to do, and its irresponsible for every other agency involved to delay this bridge replacement by even a single day.  

                        Caltrain already has a $25M bridge replacement plan that takes into consideration a future station and the $25M to do it - let them.  Follow the recommendations of the 2005 Final Report and replace the bridge in-kind with a $25M expandable bridge.  Caltrain can worry about finding the money to expand it when and if we ever see a station at Oakdale.

                        -----

                        Chris
                        http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2012/01/quint-st-closure-fait-accompli.html

                      • Alex Lantsberg
                        i understand the PUC is keen on further building up that are with digesters and the like but the last i heard is that there may not be sufficient space in that
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jan 10, 2012
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                          i understand the PUC is keen on further building up that are with digesters and the like but the last i heard is that there may not be sufficient space in that location - even if they absorb central shops.  

                          regardless, who do they think will use an inaccessible train station that is surrounded by shit-frastructure and other industrial uses? and can anyone think of a bigger waste of money (not to mention blowing an opportunity for smart commercial development) than  permanently locking up land around a train station with acres of sewage?

                          to say this is all screwed up is an understatement of the highest order.

                          aml

                          On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Chris Waddling <cawaddling@...> wrote:
                           

                          Last night I attended the HPS PAC Land Use meeting, at which the future (or lack thereof) of Redevelopment Agencies was discussed, as was the landscaping plan for Third at Cargo Way.  The issue that got me to the meeting was the proposed closure of Quint St at the Caltrain overpass.

                          To refresh your memory, there are four separate projects:

                          1. Proposed Oakdale Ave Caltrain station

                          2. Quint St bridge 

                          3. Jerrold Ave bridge (completed)

                          4. Quint/Jerrold connector road




                          We were told by SFCTA Assistant Planning Director Tilly Chang that a 2005 study indicates that the site could just barely accommodate a station at Oakdale Ave.  The station design that was thought to be best had two outer platforms with two tracks side by side between them.  This study took into account electrification, the bullet train, and local service.  From the final report <http://www.sfcta.org/images/stories/Planning/CaltrainOakdaleStation/PDFs/bayviewoakdalecaltrainstudy-finalv2.pdf>  from that study,

                           



                          "With the two-platform option, the platforms could be built initially at a narrower width of 20 feet, and then widened to 30 feet when the additional third and fourth tracks were built. This would also allow the Quint Street Bridge replacement to be built at a narrower width, then if necessary, widened in the future to accommodate third and fourth tracks."


                          Fast forward to 2012.  There is $25M in the pot to replace the Quint St. bridge.  To replace it in-kind, "at a narrower width", as was done at Jerrold Ave., would cost $25M.  To design it such that it can be "widened in the future to accommodate third and fourth tracks", and this is the very plan that was recommended in the 2005 report.  However, according to Ms. Chang, this option is no longer on the table.  What?!?  Another option, to replace the bridge with one already wide enough to accommodate all four sets of tracks would be $35M, but the extra $10M is nowhere to be found.  According to Ms. Chang, this leaves us with only one solution: close Quint St., erect a 20' high earthen berm across it, and divert Quint along the western edge of the train tracks so that it meets up with Jerrold right at the Produce Market and the soon-to-be-reconfigured Jerrold/Rankin/Kirkwood/Innes intersection.  According to Ms. Chang, this plan would cost $25M.  Or would it?  

                          To erect the berm and put tracks on top is proposed to be $20M.  The remaining $5M from the pot of money would then have to get transferred to another agency, DPW I believe, to do the work on the Quint/Jerrold connector road.  According to Ms. Chang, to do this might cost $5M, but it might also be $6M, or $7M, or $8M, depending on what they find in the soil and what remediation needs to be done.  The $5M might also get snapped up by another cash-strapped agency or project, leaving us with no connector road at all.  This was a concern leveled by Linda Richardson, chair of the BVHP PAC Land Use committee, and one that we ought to take very seriously.

                          After much discussion about the berm plan, including ridiculous interjections by some bureaucrat who claimed that no one will miss Quint being closed because it's always flooded out in the wintertime anyway, I asked, "Why has there been no mention of the option to replace the bridge in-kind for $25M with one that can be expanded in the future when a station is approved to be built?"  Ms. Chang's response was that this option was off the table because it didn't allow for the station, despite this being the very plan that the 2005 final study indicates is the best option.  Ms. Richardson quickly shut down this line of discussion, saying something about being concerned we'd lose the station if we did this and also something about the SFPUC's plans for the digesters on the east side of the track benefiting from closure of Quint. 

                          Missing from the berm and Quint/Jerrold connector road plans presented last night, which by the way were identical to those proposed at the November community meeting <http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2011/11/sfcta-meeting-notes-oakdale-caltrain.html> , was any mention of the SF Produce Market's plans to reconfigure Jerrold Ave traffic on the west side of the bridge so that it is diverted around the market onto Kirkwood and Innes Aves.  The berm/connector plan creates a complicated intersection for the proposed Quint/Jerrold connector road, as it would then put drivers squarely into the new Rankin/Kirkwood/Innes interchange that comes with the Produce Market's plan.  The DPW rep at last night's meeting was just as unprepared to answer Michael Hamman's question about how this would be addressed as he was when I asked it of him two months ago.  If DPW is to take the lead on this phase of any project, I'm scared.

                          Without question, the 100-year old Quint St bridge is a safety concern, and it must be replaced as soon as possible.  If the bridge fails as a result of all these delays in its replacement, it's not going to be a pedestrian or car driver who gets killed, but rather hundreds of Caltrain riders plunging to the street below, followed by a months-long service elimination on the line.  As such, it is up to Caltrain to replace the bridge, which they're rightfully anxious and ready to do, and its irresponsible for every other agency involved to delay this bridge replacement by even a single day.  

                          Caltrain already has a $25M bridge replacement plan that takes into consideration a future station and the $25M to do it - let them.  Follow the recommendations of the 2005 Final Report and replace the bridge in-kind with a $25M expandable bridge.  Caltrain can worry about finding the money to expand it when and if we ever see a station at Oakdale.

                          -----

                          Chris
                          http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2012/01/quint-st-closure-fait-accompli.html


                        • Mendell Studio
                          Sounds like another good argument to keep Jerrold Open. And keep Quint open. It seems the closure of Quint is cheapest and quickest, yet the promise of a
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jan 10, 2012
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                            Sounds like another good argument to keep Jerrold Open. And keep Quint open. It seems the closure of Quint is cheapest and quickest, yet the promise of a connector road, or "New Quint" is just a possibility. It sounded to me like they would wind up spending 10 million on the connector road anyway, but it wouldn't be until later, if at all. 

                            Public outcry is the only thing that will secure Quint staying open, or at least guaranteeing some form of Quint. It is another reminder, that when they close your neighbor's street, and you do not support your neighbors, when they come for your street, you'll be fighting alone. 

                            I'm glad there was an original plan to build the narrow bridge and expand it later. That should be revisited, as should the Jerrold closure.

                            Matt



                            From: Alex Lantsberg <lantsberg@...>
                            To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tue, January 10, 2012 12:35:24 PM
                            Subject: Re: [betterbayview] Quint street Closure

                             

                            i understand the PUC is keen on further building up that are with digesters and the like but the last i heard is that there may not be sufficient space in that location - even if they absorb central shops.  

                            regardless, who do they think will use an inaccessible train station that is surrounded by shit-frastructure and other industrial uses? and can anyone think of a bigger waste of money (not to mention blowing an opportunity for smart commercial development) than  permanently locking up land around a train station with acres of sewage?

                            to say this is all screwed up is an understatement of the highest order.

                            aml

                            On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Chris Waddling <cawaddling@...> wrote:
                             

                            Last night I attended the HPS PAC Land Use meeting, at which the future (or lack thereof) of Redevelopment Agencies was discussed, as was the landscaping plan for Third at Cargo Way.  The issue that got me to the meeting was the proposed closure of Quint St at the Caltrain overpass.

                            To refresh your memory, there are four separate projects:

                            1. Proposed Oakdale Ave Caltrain station

                            2. Quint St bridge 

                            3. Jerrold Ave bridge (completed)

                            4. Quint/Jerrold connector road




                            We were told by SFCTA Assistant Planning Director Tilly Chang that a 2005 study indicates that the site could just barely accommodate a station at Oakdale Ave.  The station design that was thought to be best had two outer platforms with two tracks side by side between them.  This study took into account electrification, the bullet train, and local service.  From the final report <http://www.sfcta.org/images/stories/Planning/CaltrainOakdaleStation/PDFs/bayviewoakdalecaltrainstudy-finalv2.pdf>  from that study,

                             



                            "With the two-platform option, the platforms could be built initially at a narrower width of 20 feet, and then widened to 30 feet when the additional third and fourth tracks were built. This would also allow the Quint Street Bridge replacement to be built at a narrower width, then if necessary, widened in the future to accommodate third and fourth tracks."


                            Fast forward to 2012.  There is $25M in the pot to replace the Quint St. bridge.  To replace it in-kind, "at a narrower width", as was done at Jerrold Ave., would cost $25M.  To design it such that it can be "widened in the future to accommodate third and fourth tracks", and this is the very plan that was recommended in the 2005 report.  However, according to Ms. Chang, this option is no longer on the table.  What?!?  Another option, to replace the bridge with one already wide enough to accommodate all four sets of tracks would be $35M, but the extra $10M is nowhere to be found.  According to Ms. Chang, this leaves us with only one solution: close Quint St., erect a 20' high earthen berm across it, and divert Quint along the western edge of the train tracks so that it meets up with Jerrold right at the Produce Market and the soon-to-be-reconfigured Jerrold/Rankin/Kirkwood/Innes intersection.  According to Ms. Chang, this plan would cost $25M.  Or would it?  

                            To erect the berm and put tracks on top is proposed to be $20M.  The remaining $5M from the pot of money would then have to get transferred to another agency, DPW I believe, to do the work on the Quint/Jerrold connector road.  According to Ms. Chang, to do this might cost $5M, but it might also be $6M, or $7M, or $8M, depending on what they find in the soil and what remediation needs to be done.  The $5M might also get snapped up by another cash-strapped agency or project, leaving us with no connector road at all.  This was a concern leveled by Linda Richardson, chair of the BVHP PAC Land Use committee, and one that we ought to take very seriously.

                            After much discussion about the berm plan, including ridiculous interjections by some bureaucrat who claimed that no one will miss Quint being closed because it's always flooded out in the wintertime anyway, I asked, "Why has there been no mention of the option to replace the bridge in-kind for $25M with one that can be expanded in the future when a station is approved to be built?"  Ms. Chang's response was that this option was off the table because it didn't allow for the station, despite this being the very plan that the 2005 final study indicates is the best option.  Ms. Richardson quickly shut down this line of discussion, saying something about being concerned we'd lose the station if we did this and also something about the SFPUC's plans for the digesters on the east side of the track benefiting from closure of Quint. 

                            Missing from the berm and Quint/Jerrold connector road plans presented last night, which by the way were identical to those proposed at the November community meeting <http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2011/11/sfcta-meeting-notes-oakdale-caltrain.html> , was any mention of the SF Produce Market's plans to reconfigure Jerrold Ave traffic on the west side of the bridge so that it is diverted around the market onto Kirkwood and Innes Aves.  The berm/connector plan creates a complicated intersection for the proposed Quint/Jerrold connector road, as it would then put drivers squarely into the new Rankin/Kirkwood/Innes interchange that comes with the Produce Market's plan.  The DPW rep at last night's meeting was just as unprepared to answer Michael Hamman's question about how this would be addressed as he was when I asked it of him two months ago.  If DPW is to take the lead on this phase of any project, I'm scared.

                            Without question, the 100-year old Quint St bridge is a safety concern, and it must be replaced as soon as possible.  If the bridge fails as a result of all these delays in its replacement, it's not going to be a pedestrian or car driver who gets killed, but rather hundreds of Caltrain riders plunging to the street below, followed by a months-long service elimination on the line.  As such, it is up to Caltrain to replace the bridge, which they're rightfully anxious and ready to do, and its irresponsible for every other agency involved to delay this bridge replacement by even a single day.  

                            Caltrain already has a $25M bridge replacement plan that takes into consideration a future station and the $25M to do it - let them.  Follow the recommendations of the 2005 Final Report and replace the bridge in-kind with a $25M expandable bridge.  Caltrain can worry about finding the money to expand it when and if we ever see a station at Oakdale.

                            -----

                            Chris
                            http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2012/01/quint-st-closure-fait-accompli.html


                          • Dan Dodt
                            Re: Closure of Quint Street: Newhall is more direct a route from Flora Grubb to Oakdale, Silver, etc. Quint is seldom used by bicycles now due to the dicey
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jan 10, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Re:  Closure of Quint Street:  Newhall is more direct a route from Flora Grubb to Oakdale, Silver, etc.  Quint is seldom used by bicycles now due to the dicey crossing at the tracks.  Most vehicular traffic uses Jerrold to Napoleon or Newhall to Oakdale and beyond.  Pedestrian use in this area is rare.  

                              d

                              On Jan 7, 2012, at 9:55 AM, ivan wrote:

                               

                              This is the most direct route from Jerrold (near Flora Grubb) over across Newcomb to Silver Ave. It is a great way to connect over to 101, Paul Avenue, Silver Terrace and the city beyond. It avoids significant traffic in the Produce market and a lot of the 3rd St lights if you are going to 101 South or over to Outer Mission.

                              Losing this access route would be a shame. Meetings aside, is there a petition I can sign or someone I can write a letter to?

                              Ivan

                              --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, Chris Waddling <cawaddling@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > All pertinent details and contact information can be gotten through http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2011/11/sfcta-meeting-notes-oakdale-caltrain.html
                              >
                              > Even if you can't make it Monday, best to stay informed. I'll post to d10watch any updates or changes they are proposing.
                              >
                              > Chris
                              >
                              > -----
                              > Chris Waddling
                              > cawaddling@...
                              > http://d10watch.blogspot.com
                              >
                              > On Jan 6, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Michael Hamman <mhamman@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > The proposal to replace the Quint Street Bridge is actually a misnomer. The proposal is to Permanently Close Quint Street! The existing bridge will simply be replaced by a pile of dirt with no street under the tracks. All traffic will be diverted away from Quint Street. If such a change would effect you, or, if you feel that it is not OK to eliminate a street just because it is in the Bayview, then you should be sure to attend the PAC Land Use Committee meeting Monday night, 6;00 PM at the Southeast Center on Oakdale.
                              > > --
                              > > Michael Hamman
                              > > 702 Earl Street
                              > > San Francisco, CA 94124
                              > > 415-643-1376 Office
                              > > 415-265-0954 Cell
                              > > mhamman@...
                              > >
                              >


                            • ivan
                              Dan, Thanks but you are mistaken. Being the shortest distance, the Quint way is literally the most direct route to get to Silver, Alemany, Bayshore from Flora
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jan 11, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dan,
                                Thanks but you are mistaken. Being the shortest distance, the Quint way is literally the most direct route to get to Silver, Alemany, Bayshore from Flora Grubb, and with fewer cars, fewer hills, less traffic, and fewer stops.
                                I can't speak to bicycles. I drive my truck when I go that way, as I am often getting lumber and stuff.
                                Ivan

                                >
                                > Re: Closure of Quint Street: Newhall is more direct a route from
                                > Flora Grubb to Oakdale, Silver, etc. Quint is seldom used by
                                > bicycles now due to the dicey crossing at the tracks. Most vehicular
                                > traffic uses Jerrold to Napoleon or Newhall to Oakdale and beyond.
                                > Pedestrian use in this area is rare.
                                >
                                > d
                                >
                              • ximena ares
                                I agree that Quint st is the closest and most convenient route to Industrial, Bayshore, 280 etc. ________________________________ From: ivan
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jan 11, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I agree that Quint st is the closest and most convenient route to Industrial, Bayshore, 280 etc.


                                  From: ivan <hulagun66@...>
                                  To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 6:44 AM
                                  Subject: [betterbayview] Re: Quint street Closure

                                   
                                  Dan,
                                  Thanks but you are mistaken. Being the shortest distance, the Quint way is literally the most direct route to get to Silver, Alemany, Bayshore from Flora Grubb, and with fewer cars, fewer hills, less traffic, and fewer stops.
                                  I can't speak to bicycles. I drive my truck when I go that way, as I am often getting lumber and stuff.
                                  Ivan

                                  >
                                  > Re: Closure of Quint Street: Newhall is more direct a route from
                                  > Flora Grubb to Oakdale, Silver, etc. Quint is seldom used by
                                  > bicycles now due to the dicey crossing at the tracks. Most vehicular
                                  > traffic uses Jerrold to Napoleon or Newhall to Oakdale and beyond.
                                  > Pedestrian use in this area is rare.
                                  >
                                  > d
                                  >



                                • Jim Hunger
                                  Dan, Just within our group are a number of members who regularly use Quint between Oakdale and Jerrold. I walk on it with some regularity, Matt and I drive on
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jan 11, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Dan,
                                    Just within our group are a number of members who regularly use Quint between Oakdale and Jerrold. I walk on it with some regularity, Matt and I drive on it, Michael Hamman has mentioned using it regularly, and I think Chris Waddling bikes and walks it. These are just a few of the more likely to comment members; there are no doubt more, as well as members of the community at large.
                                     
                                    But the more serious issue is bad planning that takes a cavalier approach to local concerns and convenience issues, such as closing streets, with the Oakdale station (or the Produce Market) dangled as the carrot (or loss of such the stick). What about quality of life issues for local residents? Further, their strategy seems osuspiciously dishonest: they trump up a plan for a substandard alternate route which will happen after Quint is closed, and the expected outcome will be that they will then claim that they can't do the replacement Quint for numerous reasons, all of which amount to bad planning and lack of concern for the local residents.
                                     
                                    As we all work for a "Better Bayview," it seems to me than an important concern should be accessibility. So many of the development plans involve closing roads or dog-legging onto alternative routes that will serve to make BHP more of a backwater, endanger access for basic emergency services such as our ever-diminishing fire department, and create unpleasant environments such as blind canyons in the vicinity of areas where homeless encampments are common, creating dangerous situations for the more vulnerable pedestrians. And funneling more traffic onto the remaining streets will create more congestion there and other traffic issues that have yet to be examined. It has been clear that there are alternative plans that would assure that Quint stays open, and that the train station would still be feasible. Instead of going for the easy solution, I'd rather that Caltran dug up the extra $10 million, which doesn't seem like all that much these days.
                                     
                                    Jim

                                    From: Dan Dodt <dodt@...>
                                    To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tue, January 10, 2012 9:17:53 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [betterbayview] Re: Quint street Closure

                                     

                                    Re:  Closure of Quint Street:  Newhall is more direct a route from Flora Grubb to Oakdale, Silver, etc.  Quint is seldom used by bicycles now due to the dicey crossing at the tracks.  Most vehicular traffic uses Jerrold to Napoleon or Newhall to Oakdale and beyond.  Pedestrian use in this area is rare.  


                                    d

                                    On Jan 7, 2012, at 9:55 AM, ivan wrote:

                                     

                                    This is the most direct route from Jerrold (near Flora Grubb) over across Newcomb to Silver Ave. It is a great way to connect over to 101, Paul Avenue, Silver Terrace and the city beyond. It avoids significant traffic in the Produce market and a lot of the 3rd St lights if you are going to 101 South or over to Outer Mission.

                                    Losing this access route would be a shame. Meetings aside, is there a petition I can sign or someone I can write a letter to?

                                    Ivan

                                    --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, Chris Waddling <cawaddling@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > All pertinent details and contact information can be gotten through http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2011/11/sfcta-meeting-notes-oakdale-caltrain.html
                                    >
                                    > Even if you can't make it Monday, best to stay informed. I'll post to d10watch any updates or changes they are proposing.
                                    >
                                    > Chris
                                    >
                                    > -----
                                    > Chris Waddling
                                    > cawaddling@...
                                    > http://d10watch.blogspot.com
                                    >
                                    > On Jan 6, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Michael Hamman <mhamman@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > The proposal to replace the Quint Street Bridge is actually a misnomer. The proposal is to Permanently Close Quint Street! The existing bridge will simply be replaced by a pile of dirt with no street under the track! s. All traffic will be diverted away from Quint Street. If such a change would effect you, or, if you feel that it is not OK to eliminate a street just because it is in the Bayview, then you should be sure to attend the PAC Land Use Committee meeting Monday night, 6;00 PM at the Southeast Center on Oakdale.
                                    > > --
                                    > > Michael Hamman
                                    > > 702 Earl Street
                                    > > San Francisco, CA 94124
                                    > > 415-643-1376 Office
                                    > > 415-265-0954 Cell
                                    > > mhamman@...
                                    > >
                                    >


                                  • Mendell Studio
                                    It seems like Caltrans could find the 10 million difference between 25 and 35 million a lot easier than we can arrange or afford a new Quint that works. Phelps
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jan 11, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      It seems like Caltrans could find the 10 million difference between 25 and 35 million a lot easier than we can arrange or afford a new Quint that works. Phelps and Newhall don't offer much alternative. Quint was the alternative we not only use OFTEN but I planned to use more if the Produce Market proceeds to take Jerrold away from us. Newhall is one way in opposing directions as it crosses 3rd St and would never occur to me as an alternative to Quint, and it'd be very far out of the way.

                                      Today I drove around the proposed Jerrold, behind the buildings, to see what's in store if the Produce Terminal gets it's way. It will be VERY bleak for pedestrians and bicyclists. It's bad enough driving that way.



                                      From: Jim Hunger <jimhunger@...>
                                      To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wed, January 11, 2012 12:57:33 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [betterbayview] Re: Quint street Closure

                                       

                                      Dan,
                                      Just within our group are a number of members who regularly use Quint between Oakdale and Jerrold. I walk on it with some regularity, Matt and I drive on it, Michael Hamman has mentioned using it regularly, and I think Chris Waddling bikes and walks it. These are just a few of the more likely to comment members; there are no doubt more, as well as members of the community at large.
                                       
                                      But the more serious issue is bad planning that takes a cavalier approach to local concerns and convenience issues, such as closing streets, with the Oakdale station (or the Produce Market) dangled as the carrot (or loss of such the stick). What about quality of life issues for local residents? Further, their strategy seems osuspiciously dishonest: they trump up a plan for a substandard alternate route which will happen after Quint is closed, and the expected outcome will be that they will then claim that they can't do the replacement Quint for numerous reasons, all of which amount to bad planning and lack of concern for the local residents.
                                       
                                      As we all work for a "Better Bayview," it seems to me than an important concern should be accessibility. So many of the development plans involve closing roads or dog-legging onto alternative routes that will serve to make BHP more of a backwater, endanger access for basic emergency services such as our ever-diminishing fire department, and create unpleasant environments such as blind canyons in the vicinity of areas where homeless encampments are common, creating dangerous situations for the more vulnerable pedestrians. And funneling more traffic onto the remaining streets will create more congestion there and other traffic issues that have yet to be examined. It has been clear that there are alternative plans that would assure that Quint stays open, and that the train station would still be feasible. Instead of going for the easy solution, I'd rather that Caltran dug up the extra $10 million, which doesn't seem like all that much these days.
                                       
                                      Jim

                                      From: Dan Dodt <dodt@...>
                                      To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tue, January 10, 2012 9:17:53 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [betterbayview] Re: Quint street Closure

                                       

                                      Re:  Closure of Quint Street:  Newhall is more direct a route from Flora Grubb to Oakdale, Silver, etc.  Quint is seldom used by bicycles now due to the dicey crossing at the tracks.  Most vehicular traffic uses Jerrold to Napoleon or Newhall to Oakdale and beyond.  Pedestrian use in this area is rare.  


                                      d

                                      On Jan 7, 2012, at 9:55 AM, ivan wrote:

                                       

                                      This is the most direct route from Jerrold (near Flora Grubb) over across Newcomb to Silver Ave. It is a great way to connect over to 101, Paul Avenue, Silver Terrace and the city beyond. It avoids significant traffic in the Produce market and a lot of the 3rd St lights if you are going to 101 South or over to Outer Mission.

                                      Losing this access route would be a shame. Meetings aside, is there a petition I can sign or someone I can write a letter to?

                                      Ivan

                                      --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, Chris Waddling <cawaddling@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > All pertinent details and contact information can be gotten through http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2011/11/sfcta-meeting-notes-oakdale-caltrain.html
                                      >
                                      > Even if you can't make it Monday, best to stay informed. I'll post to d10watch any updates or changes they are proposing.
                                      >
                                      > Chris
                                      >
                                      > -----
                                      > Chris Waddling
                                      > cawaddling@...
                                      > http://d10watch.blogspot.com
                                      >
                                      > On Jan 6, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Michael Hamman <mhamman@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > The proposal to replace the Quint Street Bridge is actually a misnomer. The proposal is to Permanently Close Quint Street! The existing bridge will simply be replaced by a pile of dirt with no street under the track! s. All traffic will be diverted away from Quint Street. If such a change would effect you, or, if you feel that it is not OK to eliminate a street just because it is in the Bayview, then you should be sure to attend the PAC Land Use Committee meeting Monday night, 6;00 PM at the Southeast Center on Oakdale.
                                      > > --
                                      > > Michael Hamman
                                      > > 702 Earl Street
                                      > > San Francisco, CA 94124
                                      > > 415-643-1376 Office
                                      > > 415-265-0954 Cell
                                      > > mhamman@...
                                      > >
                                      >


                                    • Dan Dodt
                                      Hello Jim, I mistakenly referred to Newhall as the most direct route from FG in my earlier comment; I had meant to say Phelps Street . Although Phelps does
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jan 11, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hello Jim,
                                        I mistakenly referred to Newhall as the most direct route from FG in my earlier comment; I had meant to say 'Phelps Street'.  Although Phelps does include a single stop sign between Jerrold and Oakdale, after the left turn at Jerrold, a similar 'virtual' stop is often realized (when driving) in turning left on Quint St.  against oncoming traffic. Driving time via the Phelps route vs Quint from Jerrold to Oakdale varies from zero-15 seconds delay, max. I've also traversed these streets daily for twenty-five years or so and, although enjoying the fast 'through-way' on Quint, am not convinced that the driving delays are consistently real. In this light, I suggest the argument against the closure take a different tack. The 'lost urban/quasi-rural' experience at the rail under and over-crossing, however, is the potential major loss here and I do appreciate the concern with the closure in this regard. As you have no doubt realized if using this connector, the occupancy with vehicles, bicycles and pedestrians is rare, largely unknown and represents a unique geographic and hidden neighborhood landscape.  One difficulty here is that the planning, although perceived as cavalier and uncaring, has gone on for decades, at times engaging the community, at times 'in house' and rather myopic. The discussions of an expanded rail station, improved pollution control plant, produce mart alignment, enhanced Southeast Campus, etc. etc. are not new or recent developments. My comments were not to discount the alternate work and discussions taking place, but instead to bring another perspective to the discussion. I also suggest that your fact gathering regarding the Quint Street alignment include the traffic numbers and police reports in the area.

                                        kind regards,
                                        d



                                        On Jan 11, 2012, at 12:57 PM, Jim Hunger wrote:

                                         

                                        Dan,
                                        Just within our group are a number of members who regularly use Quint between Oakdale and Jerrold. I walk on it with some regularity, Matt and I drive on it, Michael Hamman has mentioned using it regularly, and I think Chris Waddling bikes and walks it. These are just a few of the more likely to comment members; there are no doubt more, as well as members of the community at large.
                                         
                                        But the more serious issue is bad planning that takes a cavalier approach to local concerns and convenience issues, such as closing streets, with the Oakdale station (or the Produce Market) dangled as the carrot (or loss of such the stick). What about quality of life issues for local residents? Further, their strategy seems osuspiciously dishonest: they trump up a plan for a substandard alternate route which will happen after Quint is closed, and the expected outcome will be that they will then claim that they can't do the replacement Quint for numerous reasons, all of which amount to bad planning and lack of concern for the local residents.
                                         
                                        As we all work for a "Better Bayview," it seems to me than an important concern should be accessibility. So many of the development plans involve closing roads or dog-legging onto alternative routes that will serve to make BHP more of a backwater, endanger access for basic emergency services such as our ever-diminishing fire department, and create unpleasant environments such as blind canyons in the vicinity of areas where homeless encampments are common, creating dangerous situations for the more vulnerable pedestrians. And funneling more traffic onto the remaining streets will create more congestion there and other traffic issues that have yet to be examined. It has been clear that there are alternative plans that would assure that Quint stays open, and that the train station would still be feasible. Instead of going for the easy solution, I'd rather that Caltran dug up the extra $10 million, which doesn't seem like all that much these days.
                                         
                                        Jim

                                        From: Dan Dodt <dodt@...>
                                        To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tue, January 10, 2012 9:17:53 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [betterbayview] Re: Quint street Closure

                                         

                                        Re:  Closure of Quint Street:  Newhall is more direct a route from Flora Grubb to Oakdale, Silver, etc.  Quint is seldom used by bicycles now due to the dicey crossing at the tracks.  Most vehicular traffic uses Jerrold to Napoleon or Newhall to Oakdale and beyond.  Pedestrian use in this area is rare.  


                                        d

                                        On Jan 7, 2012, at 9:55 AM, ivan wrote:

                                         

                                        This is the most direct route from Jerrold (near Flora Grubb) over across Newcomb to Silver Ave. It is a great way to connect over to 101, Paul Avenue, Silver Terrace and the city beyond. It avoids significant traffic in the Produce market and a lot of the 3rd St lights if you are going to 101 South or over to Outer Mission.

                                        Losing this access route would be a shame. Meetings aside, is there a petition I can sign or someone I can write a letter to?

                                        Ivan

                                        --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, Chris Waddling <cawaddling@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > All pertinent details and contact information can be gotten through http://d10watch.blogspot.com/2011/11/sfcta-meeting-notes-oakdale-caltrain.html
                                        >
                                        > Even if you can't make it Monday, best to stay informed. I'll post to d10watch any updates or changes they are proposing.
                                        >
                                        > Chris
                                        >
                                        > -----
                                        > Chris Waddling
                                        > cawaddling@...
                                        > http://d10watch.blogspot.com
                                        >
                                        > On Jan 6, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Michael Hamman <mhamman@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > The proposal to replace the Quint Street Bridge is actually a misnomer. The proposal is to Permanently Close Quint Street! The existing bridge will simply be replaced by a pile of dirt with no street under the track! s. All traffic will be diverted away from Quint Street. If such a change would effect you, or, if you feel that it is not OK to eliminate a street just because it is in the Bayview, then you should be sure to attend the PAC Land Use Committee meeting Monday night, 6;00 PM at the Southeast Center on Oakdale.
                                        > > --
                                        > > Michael Hamman
                                        > > 702 Earl Street
                                        > > San Francisco, CA 94124
                                        > > 415-643-1376 Office
                                        > > 415-265-0954 Cell
                                        > > mhamman@...
                                        > >
                                        >




                                      • Chris Waddling
                                        I will be going door-to-door in my neighborhood with the 2005 final report in-hand to talk to neighbors who will be impacted by this, leaving them with a
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jan 12, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Re: [betterbayview] Re: Quint street Closure I will be going door-to-door in my neighborhood with the 2005 final report in-hand to talk to neighbors who will be impacted by this, leaving them with a postcard (below) to mail in to SFCTA Deputy Director of Planning Tilly Chang (tilly.chang@...).  I’m prepared to head out on my own to talk to as many neighbors as I can, but if anyone would like to get a set of postcards to take around their own neighborhood, I’d be happy to drop some off to you.

                                          Front:

                                          Back:


                                          Chris
                                        • Dan Dodt
                                          chris, drop off a dozen or so and i l distribute. thanks, dan On Jan 12, 2012, at 1:59 PM, Chris Waddling wrote: I will be going door-to-door in my
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jan 12, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            chris, 
                                            drop off a dozen or so and i'l distribute.
                                            thanks, dan

                                            On Jan 12, 2012, at 1:59 PM, Chris Waddling wrote:

                                             
                                            I will be going door-to-door in my neighborhood with the 2005 final report in-hand to talk to neighbors who will be impacted by this, leaving them with a postcard (below) to mail in to SFCTA Deputy Director of Planning Tilly Chang (tilly.chang@...).  I’m prepared to head out on my own to talk to as many neighbors as I can, but if anyone would like to get a set of postcards to take around their own neighborhood, I’d be happy to drop some off to you.

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                                            Chris

                                          • Alex Lantsberg
                                            in case folks are unaware, Malia Cohen, our D10 Supervisors was just appointed to the Joint Powers Board that runs Caltrain. ... in case folks are unaware,
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jan 12, 2012
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                                              in case folks are unaware, Malia Cohen, our D10 Supervisors was just appointed to the Joint Powers Board that runs Caltrain.  

                                              On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Chris Waddling <cawaddling@...> wrote:
                                               

                                              I will be going door-to-door in my neighborhood with the 2005 final report in-hand to talk to neighbors who will be impacted by this, leaving them with a postcard (below) to mail in to SFCTA Deputy Director of Planning Tilly Chang (tilly.chang@...).  I’m prepared to head out on my own to talk to as many neighbors as I can, but if anyone would like to get a set of postcards to take around their own neighborhood, I’d be happy to drop some off to you.

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                                              Chris


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