Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [betterbayview] waterfront smells

Expand Messages
  • jnaimark@aol.com
    count me in on that one.? it is SO time to count our blessings!?? jane ... From: patti wells To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com Sent:
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 3, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      count me in on that one.  it is SO time to count our blessings!   jane


      -----Original Message-----
      From: patti wells <pattiwells73@...>
      To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 8:49 am
      Subject: Re: [betterbayview] waterfront smells

      I'm wth you Ivan- You just read my mind. THanks!

      On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Ivan T <hulagun66@yahoo. com> wrote:
      We do have a beautiful waterfront. At urban and suburban harbors and waterfronts all over the world the varied scents of cooking food, creosote, rotting sea life, salt, seaweed, smoke, grease, diesel fuel and sun on tar do punctuate the ocean breeze now and then. To me just a part of life lived near the waterways.

      Move into a neighborhood and then complain about legitimate businesses there serving the public and there long before I was? I won't do it. The crack sellers, the shootings, or the bad drivers or other things that are not serving the public good and that risk my life almost daily concern me much more than the occasional annoying smell.

      Naturally, if the rendering plant, coffee roasters or the water treatment plant are putting anyone here at some sort of real risk, I want to hear about it.

      Ivan




      --
      new cell # 335-3668
    • Alex Lantsberg
      while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed industrial neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the neighborhood s historic
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 3, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed industrial neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the neighborhood's historic development and just why all off these types of industries are in a mostly low-income neighborhood - historically racist development patterns that put this type of stuff in neighborhoods where the people of color and low-incomes lived and channeled the poor and black and brown into those neighborhoods.  

        we should also lets be clear that while we live in mixed industrial neighborhood, a number of these businesses are obligated to operate at a certain level based on their environmental permits.  the short of it is that when you smell something, that's a particle of one sort or another being released into the air for everyone to breathe.  

        now i don't know about jeremiah's pick (the smell of which i really dig) but for example the darling int'l rendering plant should not be fouling up the air of the entire north part of the neighborhood whenever we get a warm day with breezes off the bay.  the sewage treatment plant should not be stinking up a strech of third street from islais creek to oakdale.   that's why darling invested in a whole bunch of air scrubbers and set up the toll free number to report stinkiness.  that's why there is so much demand to upgrade the sewage treatment facility and move some of its stinkiest operations far away from our residential and commercial areas.

        my point is that while we ought be quite understanding and accepting of the diverse types of businesses we find here, they need to be responsible to their own permits and understanding that regular working families live down here as well.

        aml
      • Dust Wells
        I have a two year-old daughter, and I ve noticed this terrible smell coming out of her diapers. I was dismayed to find poop in there. No one told me this
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 3, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          I have a two year-old daughter, and I've noticed this terrible smell coming out of her diapers. I was dismayed to find poop in there. No one told me this "poop" smell was going to be so prevalent and frequent. I called the Board of Supervisors to complain, and they suggested I march down Market Street to protest. Moreover, I've heard this "poop" might be toxic. Something must be done immediately about it, and I've called Cindy Shehan to lobby Congress to have these diapers areas declared a Super Fund Site.
           
          Enough is enough!
           
          Vote No on Prop Poop!
           


           
          On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Alex Lantsberg <lantsberg@...> wrote:

          while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed industrial neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the neighborhood's historic development and just why all off these types of industries are in a mostly low-income neighborhood - historically racist development patterns that put this type of stuff in neighborhoods where the people of color and low-incomes lived and channeled the poor and black and brown into those neighborhoods.  


          we should also lets be clear that while we live in mixed industrial neighborhood, a number of these businesses are obligated to operate at a certain level based on their environmental permits.  the short of it is that when you smell something, that's a particle of one sort or another being released into the air for everyone to breathe.  

          now i don't know about jeremiah's pick (the smell of which i really dig) but for example the darling int'l rendering plant should not be fouling up the air of the entire north part of the neighborhood whenever we get a warm day with breezes off the bay.  the sewage treatment plant should not be stinking up a strech of third street from islais creek to oakdale.   that's why darling invested in a whole bunch of air scrubbers and set up the toll free number to report stinkiness.  that's why there is so much demand to upgrade the sewage treatment facility and move some of its stinkiest operations far away from our residential and commercial areas.

          my point is that while we ought be quite understanding and accepting of the diverse types of businesses we find here, they need to be responsible to their own permits and understanding that regular working families live down here as well.

          aml




          --


          new cell (415) 335-3364
        • thinklizzylou
          wow, now this is what we need. divisive sarcasm. no thanks. ... coming ... called the ... Shehan to ... industrial ... neighborhood s ... industries are in a
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 3, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            wow, now this is what we need. divisive sarcasm. no thanks.

            --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "Dust Wells" <dusty.whales@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I have a two year-old daughter, and I've noticed this terrible smell
            coming
            > out of her diapers. I was dismayed to find poop in there. No one told me
            > this "poop" smell was going to be so prevalent and frequent. I
            called the
            > Board of Supervisors to complain, and they suggested I march down Market
            > Street to protest. Moreover, I've heard this "poop" might be toxic.
            > Something must be done immediately about it, and I've called Cindy
            Shehan to
            > lobby Congress to have these diapers areas declared a Super Fund Site.
            >
            > Enough is enough!
            >
            > Vote No on Prop Poop!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Alex Lantsberg <lantsberg@...> wrote:
            >
            > > while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed
            industrial
            > > neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the
            neighborhood's
            > > historic development and just why all off these types of
            industries are in a
            > > mostly low-income neighborhood - historically racist development
            patterns
            > > that put this type of stuff in neighborhoods where the people of
            color and
            > > low-incomes lived and channeled the poor and black and brown into
            those
            > > neighborhoods.
            > > we should also lets be clear that while we live in mixed industrial
            > > neighborhood, a number of these businesses are obligated to
            operate at a
            > > certain level based on their environmental permits. the short of
            it is that
            > > when you smell something, that's a particle of one sort or another
            being
            > > released into the air for everyone to breathe.
            > >
            > > now i don't know about jeremiah's pick (the smell of which i
            really dig)
            > > but for example the darling int'l rendering plant should not be
            fouling up
            > > the air of the entire north part of the neighborhood whenever we
            get a warm
            > > day with breezes off the bay. the sewage treatment plant should
            not be
            > > stinking up a strech of third street from islais creek to oakdale.
            that's
            > > why darling invested in a whole bunch of air scrubbers and set up
            the toll
            > > free number to report stinkiness. that's why there is so much
            demand to
            > > upgrade the sewage treatment facility and move some of its stinkiest
            > > operations far away from our residential and commercial areas.
            > >
            > > my point is that while we ought be quite understanding and
            accepting of the
            > > diverse types of businesses we find here, they need to be
            responsible to
            > > their own permits and understanding that regular working families
            live down
            > > here as well.
            > >
            > > aml
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            >
            >
            > new cell (415) 335-3364
            >
          • bayview94124
            I applaud anyone who asks, Is this smell an indication of industry (or the city) doing something that s bad for my community? Anyone who s been to the sewer
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 3, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              I applaud anyone who asks, "Is this smell an indication of industry
              (or the city) doing something that's bad for my community?" Anyone
              who's been to the sewer plant meetings knows the odor is an
              indication of something inadequate with the digesters. That's why
              there's an economically feasible plan to rebuild them with lids right
              where they are, and keep the odor contained.

              We live in an industrial residential area. That means there are
              consessions on both sides. Industry needs to respect the residents
              and work within the zoning restrictions as residents have to accept
              some noise and truck traffic during legitimate working hours, not to
              mention the smell of roast coffee.

              The closer you live or work to any problem, the more important it is
              to you personally. The issues that affect our health and personal
              safety are of course the most important, but everything we can work
              on to improve the quality of life for those of us living and/or
              working in Bayview Hunters Point is valid.

              We have a lot to be thankful for in BHP, let's stop to smell the
              roses here too. The combination of the rain and our warm weather
              should be helping everyone's gardens right now.


              --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "thinklizzylou"
              <thinklizzylou@...> wrote:
              >
              > wow, now this is what we need. divisive sarcasm. no thanks.
              >
              > --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "Dust Wells" <dusty.whales@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > I have a two year-old daughter, and I've noticed this terrible
              smell coming out of her diapers. I was dismayed to find poop in
              there. No one told me this "poop" smell was going to be so prevalent
              and frequent. I called the Board of Supervisors to complain, and they
              suggested I march down Market Street to protest. Moreover, I've heard
              this "poop" might be toxic. Something must be done immediately about
              it, and I've called Cindy Shehan to lobby Congress to have these
              diapers areas declared a Super Fund Site. Enough is enough!
              > > Vote No on Prop Poop!
              > >
              > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Alex Lantsberg <lantsberg@>
              wrote:
              > >
              > > > while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed
              > industrial neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about
              the neighborhood's historic development and just why all off these
              types of industries are in a mostly low-income neighborhood -
              historically racist development patterns that put this type of stuff
              in neighborhoods where the people of color and low-incomes lived and
              channeled the poor and black and brown into those neighborhoods.
              > > > we should also lets be clear that while we live in mixed
              industrial neighborhood, a number of these businesses are obligated to
              > operate at a certain level based on their environmental permits.
              the short of it is that when you smell something, that's a particle
              of one sort or another being released into the air for everyone to
              breathe.> > >
              > > > now i don't know about jeremiah's pick (the smell of which i
              > really dig) but for example the darling int'l rendering plant
              should not be fouling up the air of the entire north part of the
              neighborhood whenever we get a warm day with breezes off the bay.
              the sewage treatment plant should not be stinking up a strech of
              third street from islais creek to oakdale.
              > that's why darling invested in a whole bunch of air scrubbers and
              set up the toll free number to report stinkiness. that's why there
              is so much demand to upgrade the sewage treatment facility and move
              some of its stinkiest operations far away from our residential and
              commercial areas.
              > > >
              > > > my point is that while we ought be quite understanding and
              > accepting of the diverse types of businesses we find here, they
              need to be responsible to their own permits and understanding that
              regular working families live down here as well.
              > > >
              > > > aml
              > > >
            • Ivan
              ... neighborhood s ... are in a ... Businesses have to go somewhere, people have to live somewhere, a lot of the poor smartly prefer to live near where they
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Lantsberg" <lantsberg@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed industrial
                > neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the
                neighborhood's
                > historic development and just why all off these types of industries
                are in a
                > mostly low-income neighborhood...

                Businesses have to go somewhere, people have to live somewhere, a lot
                of the poor smartly prefer to live near where they work. There will
                always be overlap between modest homes and unclean industry.

                I do not subscribe to feeling guilty for something some other person's
                ancestors did. All I can do is try to be a good person today. I chose
                to live here knowing it's history and it's lack of amenities. People
                have called my buying a home here "gentrifying", but I just laugh. I'm
                not clamoring for a Starbucks here or lobbying to close down the
                rendering plant or widen the sidewalks. I do pick up my street trash
                and keep my car stereo turned down and help out my friends when they
                need help. At Thanksgiving, my brother called me a yuppie because I
                live in SF and voted for Obama. People sure like to label other people
                but their labels are most often wrong.

                I am just living life and struggling to be the kind of man persons
                admire not for his things but for his deeds. 3 people I know have died
                since November thru accident or illness, none of them old. I don't
                rail against God or kick my dog for this. It's just life, it can be
                short, so live it well. Do good deeds. And do stop and smell the roses
                (and the coffee beans) now and then.

                Happy New Year to you all, my neighbors.
                Ivan
              • Dan Dodt
                Sure. That diesel, grease, rotting meat and simmering sewage has been a part of the Bayview for decades: It has always been that way, so we might as well
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Sure. That diesel, grease, rotting meat  and simmering sewage has been a part of the Bayview for decades:

                   "It has always been that way, so we might as well accept it". 
                  "That's the way things are down here, get used to it". 
                  "I sure am lucky to be living here in San Francisco, despite the problems". 
                  "We're an industrial area, it's kinda cool to be living here with all that grunge".
                  "We have the best weather in town, but sometimes the sewer plant backs up and there is a nasty smell of burned anchoives. Oh well, my house
                  was cheap".

                  With these rather myopic and resigned postures, it is no wonder that a convergence of citizen participation is so lacking here in our community. Have we given up that easily?

                  BayviewWatcher

                  On Jan 3, 2009, at 10:00 AM, jnaimark@... wrote:

                  count me in on that one.  it is SO time to count our blessings!   jane


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: patti wells <pattiwells73@...>
                  Sent: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 8:49 am
                  Subject: Re: [betterbayview] waterfront smells

                  I'm wth you Ivan- You just read my mind. THanks!

                  On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Ivan T <hulagun66@...> wrote:
                  We do have a beautiful waterfront. At urban and suburban harbors and waterfronts all over the world the varied scents of cooking food, creosote, rotting sea life, salt, seaweed, smoke, grease, diesel fuel and sun on tar do punctuate the ocean breeze now and then. To me just a part of life lived near the waterways.

                  Move into a neighborhood and then complain about legitimate businesses there serving the public and there long before I was? I won't do it. The crack sellers, the shootings, or the bad drivers or other things that are not serving the public good and that risk my life almost daily concern me much more than the occasional annoying smell. 
                  On Jan 3, 2009, at 10:00 AM, jnaimark@... wrote:


                  count me in on that one.  it is SO time to count our blessings!   jane


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: patti wells <pattiwells73@ gmail.com>
                  To: betterbayview@ yahoogroups. com
                  Sent: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 8:49 am
                  Subject: Re: [betterbayview] waterfront smells

                  I'm wth you Ivan- You just read my mind. THanks!

                  On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Ivan T <hulagun66@yahoo. com> wrote:
                  We do have a beautiful waterfront. At urban and suburban harbors and waterfronts all over the world the varied scents of cooking food, creosote, rotting sea life, salt, seaweed, smoke, grease, diesel fuel and sun on tar do punctuate the ocean breeze now and then. To me just a part of life lived near the waterways.

                  Move into a neighborhood and then complain about legitimate businesses there serving the public and there long before I was? I won't do it. The crack sellers, the shootings, or the bad drivers or other things that are not serving the public good and that risk my life almost daily concern me much more than the occasional annoying smell. 

                  Naturally, if the rendering plant, coffee roasters or the water treatment plant are putting anyone here at some sort of real risk, I want to hear about it.

                  Ivan




                  -- 
                  new cell # 335-3668


                • jnaimark@aol.com
                  Ivan, i could echo so much of your attitude, especially on my better days.? counting blessings has nothing to do with giving up.? it s about learning to
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Ivan, i could echo so much of your attitude, especially on my better days.  counting blessings has nothing to do with giving up.  it's about learning to appreciate what we've got AND spreading the blessings around by doing whatever it is that suits our own personalities in the way of helping our communities.     
                    my blessings comment was in reference to the smell of coffee roasting, not toxic smells that i agree are a problem and not to be ignored.
                    may we all be what we can to make bayview better.  i like that idea, and happy new year to all
                                  jane


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Ivan <hulagun66@...>
                    To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:15 am
                    Subject: [betterbayview] Re: neighborhood's (was waterfront smells)

                    --- In betterbayview@ yahoogroups. com, "Alex Lantsberg" <lantsberg@. ..>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed industrial
                    > neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the
                    neighborhood' s
                    > historic development and just why all off these types of industries
                    are in a
                    > mostly low-income neighborhood. ..

                    Businesses have to go somewhere, people have to live somewhere, a lot
                    of the poor smartly prefer to live near where they work. There will
                    always be overlap between modest homes and unclean industry.

                    I do not subscribe to feeling guilty for something some other person's
                    ancestors did. All I can do is try to be a good person today. I chose
                    to live here knowing it's history and it's lack of amenities. People
                    have called my buying a home here "gentrifying" , but I just laugh. I'm
                    not clamoring for a Starbucks here or lobbying to close down the
                    rendering plant or widen the sidewalks. I do pick up my street trash
                    and keep my car stereo turned down and help out my friends when they
                    need help. At Thanksgiving, my brother called me a yuppie because I
                    live in SF and voted for Obama. People sure like to label other people
                    but their labels are most often wrong.

                    I am just living life and struggling to be the kind of man persons
                    admire not for his things but for his deeds. 3 people I know have died
                    since November thru accident or illness, none of them old. I don't
                    rail against God or kick my dog for this. It's just life, it can be
                    short, so live it well. Do good deeds. And do stop and smell the roses
                    (and the coffee beans) now and then.

                    Happy New Year to you all, my neighbors.
                    Ivan

                  • ximena ares
                    Thank you all for your comments. Unfortunately, I can t stand the burned coffee bean smell anymore. ________________________________ From: Dust Wells
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thank you all for your comments. 
                      Unfortunately, I can't stand the burned coffee bean smell anymore.


                      From: Dust Wells <dusty.whales@...>
                      To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 12:09:15 PM
                      Subject: Re: [betterbayview] waterfront smells

                      I have a two year-old daughter, and I've noticed this terrible smell coming out of her diapers. I was dismayed to find poop in there. No one told me this "poop" smell was going to be so prevalent and frequent. I called the Board of Supervisors to complain, and they suggested I march down Market Street to protest. Moreover, I've heard this "poop" might be toxic. Something must be done immediately about it, and I've called Cindy Shehan to lobby Congress to have these diapers areas declared a Super Fund Site.
                       
                      Enough is enough!
                       
                      Vote No on Prop Poop!
                       


                       
                      On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Alex Lantsberg <lantsberg@gmail. com> wrote:

                      while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed industrial neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the neighborhood's historic development and just why all off these types of industries are in a mostly low-income neighborhood - historically racist development patterns that put this type of stuff in neighborhoods where the people of color and low-incomes lived and channeled the poor and black and brown into those neighborhoods.  


                      we should also lets be clear that while we live in mixed industrial neighborhood, a number of these businesses are obligated to operate at a certain level based on their environmental permits.  the short of it is that when you smell something, that's a particle of one sort or another being released into the air for everyone to breathe.  

                      now i don't know about jeremiah's pick (the smell of which i really dig) but for example the darling int'l rendering plant should not be fouling up the air of the entire north part of the neighborhood whenever we get a warm day with breezes off the bay.  the sewage treatment plant should not be stinking up a strech of third street from islais creek to oakdale.   that's why darling invested in a whole bunch of air scrubbers and set up the toll free number to report stinkiness.  that's why there is so much demand to upgrade the sewage treatment facility and move some of its stinkiest operations far away from our residential and commercial areas.

                      my point is that while we ought be quite understanding and accepting of the diverse types of businesses we find here, they need to be responsible to their own permits and understanding that regular working families live down here as well.

                      aml




                      --


                      new cell (415) 335-3364

                    • Alex Lantsberg
                      ... i realize its hard to believe, but the question of where to rebuild the digesters puts our neighborhood at a crossroads. one direction is essentially the
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Anyone who's been to the sewer plant meetings knows the odor is an indication of something inadequate with the digesters. That's why there's an economically feasible plan to rebuild them with lids right where they are, and keep the odor contained.







                        i realize its hard to believe, but the question of where to rebuild the digesters puts our neighborhood at a crossroads. one direction is essentially the status quo: the digesters get rebuilt at the current footprint but we gussy them up a bit, we keep the costs low, and that's all there is to it.  i believe that this is penny wise but pound foolish: moving them yield significant benefits to our neighborhood's continued revitalization as well as to the city as a whole for about a 10% increase in the cost of the entire sewer system master plan.

                        first off, we will address a long-standing injustice that led to the bayview becoming the city's outhouse.  its symbolic, but symbolism is important in my book.

                        second, dramatically improve our western gateway and northern commercial areas.  the 3rd street light rail is a major public investment meant to strengthen the neighborhood's connections to the city and moving the digesters will reinforce and build upon that investment by removing a major blight and opening up space for much more neighborhood friendly/serving uses.  additionally, there's been talk of building a caltrain and now a high speed rail station just north of oakdale and this makes much more sense without massive infrastructure right there. i think the benefits for the folks who live immediately next to the plant go without saying.  since this is all a tax increment area, the tax increment from the appreciation of the nearby private lands would go directly back into more neighborhood improvements.

                        third, it will help the port by making some much needed improvements in the backlands.  that area needs a lot of help but the port doesn't have the money to do much (or frankly anywhere along the waterfront) and has regulatory constraints on what it can actually do with the land in terms of revenue generation.  not only would the digesters provide a stabilizing investment into that area, they would anchor a reclamation eco-industrial park with bio-diesel manufacturing, building materials reclamation, and food waste to energy and buffer some of the other port users (concrete manufacturing, aggregate handling, fat rendering)  from the rest of the neighborhood.  

                        finally,these neighborhood improvements would basically be paid a $19 to $1 match by the rest of the city's residents and businesses (we have about 5% of the city's population).  our neighborhood gets the benefits the rest of the city pays the vast majority of the freight.  i see this as a good thing.

                        the decision on the new location will be made over the course of the next 18 months or so. i'll keep folks apprised as the process unfolds.

                        aml
                      • thinklizzylou
                        Symbolism is important. It can also be referred to as The Broken Windows Theory. Basically, when a building allows a broken window to remain unfixed-according
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Symbolism is important. It can also be referred to as The Broken
                          Windows Theory. Basically, when a building allows a broken window to
                          remain unfixed-according to this theory-more blight and then crime
                          follows. This theory is widely accepted and the effects of it can be
                          seen in neglected urban neighborhoods across the country.
                          Bayview-Hunter's Point is one example of this. That is why adopt the
                          block programs exist. That is why putting gardens on our medians has
                          reduced illegal dumping. That is why our monthly police meetings are
                          important. That is why tree planting is advantageous. It shows, among
                          many other things, that people care about their neighborhoods.

                          This is why many of us advocate and fight for the little things to get
                          fixed, cleaned up, or addressed in our neighborhood from graffiti
                          removal to the smells to noise issues. The mentality that this is the
                          way it is in Bayview baffles me. That always reminds me of what the
                          big politicos say-and I don't agree. When smaller crimes, code
                          violations and laws of a community are left accepted and unaddressed,
                          this leads to bigger crimes and code violations. Hence why so many
                          folks out here have 3-1-1 on speed dial. We have not given up, we have
                          just begun.

                          Our neighborhood houses a huge toilet and not just for San Francisco
                          but for Brisbane. It stinks up our air. It covers many city blocks.
                          It is not healthy to breathe. It is an eye soar. It would never have
                          been allowed any other place and that is why it is here and that is
                          just plain crap.

                          Please keep us updated Alex and thanks for all of your hardwork.




                          --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Lantsberg" <lantsberg@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > > Anyone who's been to the sewer plant meetings knows the odor is an
                          > > indication of something inadequate with the digesters. That's why
                          there's an
                          > > economically feasible plan to rebuild them with lids right where
                          they are,
                          > > and keep the odor contained.
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > i realize its hard to believe, but the question of where to rebuild the
                          > digesters puts our neighborhood at a crossroads. one direction is
                          > essentially the status quo: the digesters get rebuilt at the current
                          > footprint but we gussy them up a bit, we keep the costs low, and
                          that's all
                          > there is to it. i believe that this is penny wise but pound
                          foolish: moving
                          > them yield significant benefits to our neighborhood's continued
                          > revitalization as well as to the city as a whole for about a 10%
                          increase in
                          > the cost of the entire sewer system master plan.
                          >
                          > first off, we will address a long-standing injustice that led to the
                          bayview
                          > becoming the city's outhouse. its symbolic, but symbolism is
                          important in
                          > my book.
                          >
                          > second, dramatically improve our western gateway and northern commercial
                          > areas. the 3rd street light rail is a major public investment meant to
                          > strengthen the neighborhood's connections to the city and moving the
                          > digesters will reinforce and build upon that investment by removing
                          a major
                          > blight and opening up space for much more neighborhood friendly/serving
                          > uses. additionally, there's been talk of building a caltrain and
                          now a high
                          > speed rail station just north of oakdale and this makes much more sense
                          > without massive infrastructure right there. i think the benefits for the
                          > folks who live immediately next to the plant go without saying.
                          since this
                          > is all a tax increment area, the tax increment from the appreciation
                          of the
                          > nearby private lands would go directly back into more neighborhood
                          > improvements.
                          >
                          > third, it will help the port by making some much needed improvements
                          in the
                          > backlands. that area needs a lot of help but the port doesn't have the
                          > money to do much (or frankly anywhere along the waterfront) and has
                          > regulatory constraints on what it can actually do with the land in
                          terms of
                          > revenue generation. not only would the digesters provide a stabilizing
                          > investment into that area, they would anchor a reclamation
                          eco-industrial
                          > park with bio-diesel manufacturing, building materials reclamation,
                          and food
                          > waste to energy and buffer some of the other port users (concrete
                          > manufacturing, aggregate handling, fat rendering) from the rest of the
                          > neighborhood.
                          >
                          > finally,these neighborhood improvements would basically be paid a
                          $19 to $1
                          > match by the rest of the city's residents and businesses (we have
                          about 5%
                          > of the city's population). our neighborhood gets the benefits the
                          rest of
                          > the city pays the vast majority of the freight. i see this as a
                          good thing.
                          >
                          > the decision on the new location will be made over the course of the
                          next 18
                          > months or so. i'll keep folks apprised as the process unfolds.
                          >
                          > aml
                          >
                        • Sheila Jaswal
                          Yes, thanks Alex for working on this issue, and everyone for the time you take to do little daily things, reporting bigger things, and working on these
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Yes, thanks Alex for working on this issue, and everyone for the time you take to do little daily things, reporting bigger things, and working on these different neighborhood committees and being involved with all the meetings, the tree plantings, the gardens, etc.  Everything is definitely making a difference and we really appreciate it.  And we definitely enjoy and sing the praises of many aspects of our neighborhood that make it a great place for our family right now, today.
                            Happy New Year!
                            Sheila & Meg




                            Please keep us updated Alex and thanks for all of your hardwork.




                          • Alex Lantsberg
                            thanks but while my activism has focused on this for the past decade, its been the ongoing support of the folks who live in the neighborhood that s really kept
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              thanks but while my activism has focused on this for the past decade, its been the ongoing support of the folks who live in the neighborhood that's really kept it alive and made progress over these years.  and it will be all of your participation in the next two years that will get us over the hump and make the changes that have been demanded for a long time before i ever moved to the neighborhood..  if you're a facebook user check out the SWAle group  that I just set up.

                              aml
                            • Ivan
                              ... Nothing myopic about not jumping on a bandwagon. Many of us moved here because we LIKE it, along with some of its warts. If you are hoping Bayview will
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, Dan Dodt <dodt@...> wrote:

                                > With these rather myopic and resigned postures, it is no wonder that
                                > a convergence of citizen participation is so lacking here in our
                                > community. Have we given up that easily?


                                Nothing myopic about not jumping on a bandwagon. Many of us moved here
                                because we LIKE it, along with some of its warts. If you are hoping
                                Bayview will morph into another Marina district, relax, it's gonna be
                                awhile.

                                Hopefully never...

                                Ivan
                              • Dan Dodt
                                Hello Ivan, There may be a misinterpretation here. Seeing how high we are supposed to jump is precisely the issue, and one to avoid. Those of us who chose to
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jan 5, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hello Ivan,
                                  There may be a misinterpretation here. Seeing how high we are
                                  supposed to 'jump' is precisely the issue, and one to avoid.
                                  Those of us who chose to move here, witnessing decades of evolving
                                  citizen participation, understand as you do that the 'Marina'
                                  scenario is
                                  highly unlikely and undesirable.
                                  Dan

                                  On Jan 4, 2009, at 11:58 PM, Ivan wrote:

                                  > --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, Dan Dodt <dodt@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > With these rather myopic and resigned postures, it is no wonder that
                                  > > a convergence of citizen participation is so lacking here in our
                                  > > community. Have we given up that easily?
                                  >
                                  > Nothing myopic about not jumping on a bandwagon. Many of us moved here
                                  > because we LIKE it, along with some of its warts. If you are hoping
                                  > Bayview will morph into another Marina district, relax, it's gonna be
                                  > awhile.
                                  >
                                  > Hopefully never...
                                  >
                                  > Ivan
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Alex Lantsberg
                                  and to second dan, the neighborhood s environmental justice movement is anything but a bandwagon. its been around in various incarnations long before a lot us
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jan 5, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    and to second dan, the neighborhood's environmental justice movement is anything but a bandwagon.  its been around in various incarnations long before a lot us moved here.  i'm going to go out on a limb and say that turning our neighborhood into the marina or noe valley are the last things on our mind.  but that doesn't mean that we allow industrial polluters to have their way with the environment that we share.
                                  • Alex Lantsberg
                                    for facebooking better bayviewers...i d like to invite y all to join the SWAle group that I just set up to provide updates on the sewer system master plan as
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jan 5, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      for facebooking better bayviewers...i'd like to invite y'all to join the SWAle group that I just set up to provide updates on the sewer system master plan as it heads into the home stretch.  here's the link...

                                      http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=43837056669

                                      alex
                                    • Dan Dodt
                                      A, Indeed. The larger behind the scenes work that actually delivers results involves understanding where acquiescence may (unintentionally)occur and letting
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jan 5, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        A,
                                        Indeed. The larger behind the scenes work that actually delivers
                                        results involves understanding where acquiescence may
                                        (unintentionally)occur and letting the govt. employees and
                                        'appointees' know that we are not likely to put up with it. I know
                                        that you have been diligent in being a shoe at the appropriate
                                        backside when required. It is gratifying to see some of the newer
                                        residents taking these issues as fundamental to the future we
                                        continue to build here in BVHP. There is always added 'particulate
                                        matter' and 'noise' (sometimes even from City Hall!- imagine that)
                                        which often stifles pragmatism and progress. Limb sitting can be
                                        instructive.
                                        Onward and Happy New Year to you and yours.
                                        Dan

                                        On Jan 5, 2009, at 11:15 AM, Alex Lantsberg wrote:

                                        > and to second dan, the neighborhood's environmental justice
                                        > movement is anything but a bandwagon. its been around in various
                                        > incarnations long before a lot us moved here. i'm going to go out
                                        > on a limb and say that turning our neighborhood into the marina or
                                        > noe valley are the last things on our mind. but that doesn't mean
                                        > that we allow industrial polluters to have their way with the
                                        > environment that we share.
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • kikishadow@sonic.net
                                        I have to say that when I read the betterbayview group letters on the 4th or 5th at some ungodly hour (have you noticed we do have some night owls) I laughed
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jan 6, 2009
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I have to say that when I read the betterbayview group letters on the
                                          4th or 5th at some ungodly hour (have you noticed we do have some night
                                          owls) I laughed to read the posting from Dust Wells. I know how serious
                                          a the environmental issues are, and we all spend very much time related
                                          to these issues, but sometimes it is good to see a Sat. Night Live take
                                          on these things. And yes I am happy Al Franken won.
                                          Pauline
                                        • patti wells
                                          In agreement there What s wrong with a laugh here and there! Vote no on Prop Poop!!!! ... -- new cell # 335-3668
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jan 6, 2009
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            In agreement there
                                            What's wrong with a laugh here and there!
                                            Vote no on Prop Poop!!!!
                                            On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 4:05 AM, <kikishadow@...> wrote:

                                            I have to say that when I read the betterbayview group letters on the
                                            4th or 5th at some ungodly hour (have you noticed we do have some night
                                            owls) I laughed to read the posting from Dust Wells. I know how serious
                                            a the environmental issues are, and we all spend very much time related
                                            to these issues, but sometimes it is good to see a Sat. Night Live take
                                            on these things. And yes I am happy Al Franken won.
                                            Pauline




                                            --
                                            new cell # 335-3668
                                          • bayview94124
                                            Expanding the sewer plant footprint and moving the digesters onto landfill is not only an economic disaster it s a permanent turd on the waterfront. Though I
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Expanding the sewer plant footprint and moving the digesters onto
                                              landfill is not only an economic disaster it's a permanent turd on
                                              the waterfront. Though I live near it and work facing it, I say keep
                                              it where it is, or use the undesirable land beside and beneath the
                                              freeway. Don't grab the land off Islais Creek, nor by the bay.

                                              Putting a new sewage plant with a 100+ year lifespan on our
                                              waterfront, in the warmest part of the city, stinks. Suggesting we
                                              benefit is slight of hand. Somebody always benefits from a deal like
                                              this, but it isn't the community.

                                              --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Lantsberg"
                                              <lantsberg@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > >
                                              > > Anyone who's been to the sewer plant meetings knows the odor is an
                                              > > indication of something inadequate with the digesters. That's why
                                              there's an
                                              > > economically feasible plan to rebuild them with lids right where
                                              they are,
                                              > > and keep the odor contained.
                                              > >--------
                                              > > i realize its hard to believe, but the question of where to
                                              rebuild the
                                              > digesters puts our neighborhood at a crossroads. one direction is
                                              > essentially the status quo: the digesters get rebuilt at the current
                                              > footprint but we gussy them up a bit, we keep the costs low, and
                                              that's all
                                              > there is to it. i believe that this is penny wise but pound
                                              foolish: moving
                                              > them yield significant benefits to our neighborhood's continued
                                              > revitalization as well as to the city as a whole for about a 10%
                                              increase in
                                              > the cost of the entire sewer system master plan.
                                              >
                                              > first off, we will address a long-standing injustice that led to
                                              the bayview
                                              > becoming the city's outhouse. its symbolic, but symbolism is
                                              important in
                                              > my book.
                                              >
                                              > second, dramatically improve our western gateway and northern
                                              commercial
                                              > areas. the 3rd street light rail is a major public investment
                                              meant to
                                              > strengthen the neighborhood's connections to the city and moving the
                                              > digesters will reinforce and build upon that investment by removing
                                              a major
                                              > blight and opening up space for much more neighborhood
                                              friendly/serving
                                              > uses. additionally, there's been talk of building a caltrain and
                                              now a high
                                              > speed rail station just north of oakdale and this makes much more
                                              sense
                                              > without massive infrastructure right there. i think the benefits
                                              for the
                                              > folks who live immediately next to the plant go without saying.
                                              since this
                                              > is all a tax increment area, the tax increment from the
                                              appreciation of the
                                              > nearby private lands would go directly back into more neighborhood
                                              > improvements.
                                              >
                                              > third, it will help the port by making some much needed
                                              improvements in the
                                              > backlands. that area needs a lot of help but the port doesn't have
                                              the
                                              > money to do much (or frankly anywhere along the waterfront) and has
                                              > regulatory constraints on what it can actually do with the land in
                                              terms of
                                              > revenue generation. not only would the digesters provide a
                                              stabilizing
                                              > investment into that area, they would anchor a reclamation eco-
                                              industrial
                                              > park with bio-diesel manufacturing, building materials reclamation,
                                              and food
                                              > waste to energy and buffer some of the other port users (concrete
                                              > manufacturing, aggregate handling, fat rendering) from the rest of
                                              the
                                              > neighborhood.
                                              >
                                              > finally,these neighborhood improvements would basically be paid a
                                              $19 to $1
                                              > match by the rest of the city's residents and businesses (we have
                                              about 5%
                                              > of the city's population). our neighborhood gets the benefits the
                                              rest of
                                              > the city pays the vast majority of the freight. i see this as a
                                              good thing.
                                              >
                                              > the decision on the new location will be made over the course of
                                              the next 18
                                              > months or so. i'll keep folks apprised as the process unfolds.
                                              >
                                              > aml
                                              >
                                            • Alex Lantsberg
                                              i guess we ll agree to disagree on this as well as advocate for and organize around our respective positions.
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                i guess we'll agree to disagree on this as well as advocate for and organize around our respective positions. 

                                                On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:10 PM, bayview94124 <mendellapt@...> wrote:

                                                Expanding the sewer plant footprint and moving the digesters onto
                                                landfill is not only an economic disaster it's a permanent turd on
                                                the waterfront. Though I live near it and work facing it, I say keep
                                                it where it is, or use the undesirable land beside and beneath the
                                                freeway. Don't grab the land off Islais Creek, nor by the bay.

                                                Putting a new sewage plant with a 100+ year lifespan on our
                                                waterfront, in the warmest part of the city, stinks. Suggesting we
                                                benefit is slight of hand. Somebody always benefits from a deal like
                                                this, but it isn't the community.

                                                --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Lantsberg"
                                                <lantsberg@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                > > Anyone who's been to the sewer plant meetings knows the odor is an
                                                > > indication of something inadequate with the digesters. That's why
                                                there's an
                                                > > economically feasible plan to rebuild them with lids right where
                                                they are,
                                                > > and keep the odor contained.
                                                > >--------
                                                > > i realize its hard to believe, but the question of where to
                                                rebuild the
                                                > digesters puts our neighborhood at a crossroads. one direction is
                                                > essentially the status quo: the digesters get rebuilt at the current
                                                > footprint but we gussy them up a bit, we keep the costs low, and
                                                that's all
                                                > there is to it. i believe that this is penny wise but pound
                                                foolish: moving
                                                > them yield significant benefits to our neighborhood's continued
                                                > revitalization as well as to the city as a whole for about a 10%
                                                increase in
                                                > the cost of the entire sewer system master plan.
                                                >
                                                > first off, we will address a long-standing injustice that led to
                                                the bayview
                                                > becoming the city's outhouse. its symbolic, but symbolism is
                                                important in
                                                > my book.
                                                >
                                                > second, dramatically improve our western gateway and northern
                                                commercial
                                                > areas. the 3rd street light rail is a major public investment
                                                meant to
                                                > strengthen the neighborhood's connections to the city and moving the
                                                > digesters will reinforce and build upon that investment by removing
                                                a major
                                                > blight and opening up space for much more neighborhood
                                                friendly/serving
                                                > uses. additionally, there's been talk of building a caltrain and
                                                now a high
                                                > speed rail station just north of oakdale and this makes much more
                                                sense
                                                > without massive infrastructure right there. i think the benefits
                                                for the
                                                > folks who live immediately next to the plant go without saying.
                                                since this
                                                > is all a tax increment area, the tax increment from the
                                                appreciation of the
                                                > nearby private lands would go directly back into more neighborhood
                                                > improvements.
                                                >
                                                > third, it will help the port by making some much needed
                                                improvements in the
                                                > backlands. that area needs a lot of help but the port doesn't have
                                                the
                                                > money to do much (or frankly anywhere along the waterfront) and has
                                                > regulatory constraints on what it can actually do with the land in
                                                terms of
                                                > revenue generation. not only would the digesters provide a
                                                stabilizing
                                                > investment into that area, they would anchor a reclamation eco-
                                                industrial
                                                > park with bio-diesel manufacturing, building materials reclamation,
                                                and food
                                                > waste to energy and buffer some of the other port users (concrete
                                                > manufacturing, aggregate handling, fat rendering) from the rest of
                                                the
                                                > neighborhood.
                                                >
                                                > finally,these neighborhood improvements would basically be paid a
                                                $19 to $1
                                                > match by the rest of the city's residents and businesses (we have
                                                about 5%
                                                > of the city's population). our neighborhood gets the benefits the
                                                rest of
                                                > the city pays the vast majority of the freight. i see this as a
                                                good thing.
                                                >
                                                > the decision on the new location will be made over the course of
                                                the next 18
                                                > months or so. i'll keep folks apprised as the process unfolds.
                                                >
                                                > aml
                                                >


                                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.