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Re: [betterbayview] waterfront smells

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  • patti wells
    I m wth you Ivan- You just read my mind. THanks! ... -- new cell # 335-3668
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 3, 2009
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      I'm wth you Ivan- You just read my mind. THanks!

      On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Ivan T <hulagun66@...> wrote:

      We do have a beautiful waterfront. At urban and suburban harbors and waterfronts all over the world the varied scents of cooking food, creosote, rotting sea life, salt, seaweed, smoke, grease, diesel fuel and sun on tar do punctuate the ocean breeze now and then. To me just a part of life lived near the waterways.

      Move into a neighborhood and then complain about legitimate businesses there serving the public and there long before I was? I won't do it. The crack sellers, the shootings, or the bad drivers or other things that are not serving the public good and that risk my life almost daily concern me much more than the occasional annoying smell.

      Naturally, if the rendering plant, coffee roasters or the water treatment plant are putting anyone here at some sort of real risk, I want to hear about it.

      Ivan




      --
      new cell # 335-3668
    • jnaimark@aol.com
      count me in on that one.? it is SO time to count our blessings!?? jane ... From: patti wells To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com Sent:
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 3, 2009
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        count me in on that one.  it is SO time to count our blessings!   jane


        -----Original Message-----
        From: patti wells <pattiwells73@...>
        To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 8:49 am
        Subject: Re: [betterbayview] waterfront smells

        I'm wth you Ivan- You just read my mind. THanks!

        On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Ivan T <hulagun66@yahoo. com> wrote:
        We do have a beautiful waterfront. At urban and suburban harbors and waterfronts all over the world the varied scents of cooking food, creosote, rotting sea life, salt, seaweed, smoke, grease, diesel fuel and sun on tar do punctuate the ocean breeze now and then. To me just a part of life lived near the waterways.

        Move into a neighborhood and then complain about legitimate businesses there serving the public and there long before I was? I won't do it. The crack sellers, the shootings, or the bad drivers or other things that are not serving the public good and that risk my life almost daily concern me much more than the occasional annoying smell.

        Naturally, if the rendering plant, coffee roasters or the water treatment plant are putting anyone here at some sort of real risk, I want to hear about it.

        Ivan




        --
        new cell # 335-3668
      • Alex Lantsberg
        while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed industrial neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the neighborhood s historic
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 3, 2009
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          while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed industrial neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the neighborhood's historic development and just why all off these types of industries are in a mostly low-income neighborhood - historically racist development patterns that put this type of stuff in neighborhoods where the people of color and low-incomes lived and channeled the poor and black and brown into those neighborhoods.  

          we should also lets be clear that while we live in mixed industrial neighborhood, a number of these businesses are obligated to operate at a certain level based on their environmental permits.  the short of it is that when you smell something, that's a particle of one sort or another being released into the air for everyone to breathe.  

          now i don't know about jeremiah's pick (the smell of which i really dig) but for example the darling int'l rendering plant should not be fouling up the air of the entire north part of the neighborhood whenever we get a warm day with breezes off the bay.  the sewage treatment plant should not be stinking up a strech of third street from islais creek to oakdale.   that's why darling invested in a whole bunch of air scrubbers and set up the toll free number to report stinkiness.  that's why there is so much demand to upgrade the sewage treatment facility and move some of its stinkiest operations far away from our residential and commercial areas.

          my point is that while we ought be quite understanding and accepting of the diverse types of businesses we find here, they need to be responsible to their own permits and understanding that regular working families live down here as well.

          aml
        • Dust Wells
          I have a two year-old daughter, and I ve noticed this terrible smell coming out of her diapers. I was dismayed to find poop in there. No one told me this
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 3, 2009
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            I have a two year-old daughter, and I've noticed this terrible smell coming out of her diapers. I was dismayed to find poop in there. No one told me this "poop" smell was going to be so prevalent and frequent. I called the Board of Supervisors to complain, and they suggested I march down Market Street to protest. Moreover, I've heard this "poop" might be toxic. Something must be done immediately about it, and I've called Cindy Shehan to lobby Congress to have these diapers areas declared a Super Fund Site.
             
            Enough is enough!
             
            Vote No on Prop Poop!
             


             
            On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Alex Lantsberg <lantsberg@...> wrote:

            while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed industrial neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the neighborhood's historic development and just why all off these types of industries are in a mostly low-income neighborhood - historically racist development patterns that put this type of stuff in neighborhoods where the people of color and low-incomes lived and channeled the poor and black and brown into those neighborhoods.  


            we should also lets be clear that while we live in mixed industrial neighborhood, a number of these businesses are obligated to operate at a certain level based on their environmental permits.  the short of it is that when you smell something, that's a particle of one sort or another being released into the air for everyone to breathe.  

            now i don't know about jeremiah's pick (the smell of which i really dig) but for example the darling int'l rendering plant should not be fouling up the air of the entire north part of the neighborhood whenever we get a warm day with breezes off the bay.  the sewage treatment plant should not be stinking up a strech of third street from islais creek to oakdale.   that's why darling invested in a whole bunch of air scrubbers and set up the toll free number to report stinkiness.  that's why there is so much demand to upgrade the sewage treatment facility and move some of its stinkiest operations far away from our residential and commercial areas.

            my point is that while we ought be quite understanding and accepting of the diverse types of businesses we find here, they need to be responsible to their own permits and understanding that regular working families live down here as well.

            aml




            --


            new cell (415) 335-3364
          • thinklizzylou
            wow, now this is what we need. divisive sarcasm. no thanks. ... coming ... called the ... Shehan to ... industrial ... neighborhood s ... industries are in a
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 3, 2009
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              wow, now this is what we need. divisive sarcasm. no thanks.

              --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "Dust Wells" <dusty.whales@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I have a two year-old daughter, and I've noticed this terrible smell
              coming
              > out of her diapers. I was dismayed to find poop in there. No one told me
              > this "poop" smell was going to be so prevalent and frequent. I
              called the
              > Board of Supervisors to complain, and they suggested I march down Market
              > Street to protest. Moreover, I've heard this "poop" might be toxic.
              > Something must be done immediately about it, and I've called Cindy
              Shehan to
              > lobby Congress to have these diapers areas declared a Super Fund Site.
              >
              > Enough is enough!
              >
              > Vote No on Prop Poop!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Alex Lantsberg <lantsberg@...> wrote:
              >
              > > while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed
              industrial
              > > neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the
              neighborhood's
              > > historic development and just why all off these types of
              industries are in a
              > > mostly low-income neighborhood - historically racist development
              patterns
              > > that put this type of stuff in neighborhoods where the people of
              color and
              > > low-incomes lived and channeled the poor and black and brown into
              those
              > > neighborhoods.
              > > we should also lets be clear that while we live in mixed industrial
              > > neighborhood, a number of these businesses are obligated to
              operate at a
              > > certain level based on their environmental permits. the short of
              it is that
              > > when you smell something, that's a particle of one sort or another
              being
              > > released into the air for everyone to breathe.
              > >
              > > now i don't know about jeremiah's pick (the smell of which i
              really dig)
              > > but for example the darling int'l rendering plant should not be
              fouling up
              > > the air of the entire north part of the neighborhood whenever we
              get a warm
              > > day with breezes off the bay. the sewage treatment plant should
              not be
              > > stinking up a strech of third street from islais creek to oakdale.
              that's
              > > why darling invested in a whole bunch of air scrubbers and set up
              the toll
              > > free number to report stinkiness. that's why there is so much
              demand to
              > > upgrade the sewage treatment facility and move some of its stinkiest
              > > operations far away from our residential and commercial areas.
              > >
              > > my point is that while we ought be quite understanding and
              accepting of the
              > > diverse types of businesses we find here, they need to be
              responsible to
              > > their own permits and understanding that regular working families
              live down
              > > here as well.
              > >
              > > aml
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              >
              >
              > new cell (415) 335-3364
              >
            • bayview94124
              I applaud anyone who asks, Is this smell an indication of industry (or the city) doing something that s bad for my community? Anyone who s been to the sewer
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 3, 2009
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                I applaud anyone who asks, "Is this smell an indication of industry
                (or the city) doing something that's bad for my community?" Anyone
                who's been to the sewer plant meetings knows the odor is an
                indication of something inadequate with the digesters. That's why
                there's an economically feasible plan to rebuild them with lids right
                where they are, and keep the odor contained.

                We live in an industrial residential area. That means there are
                consessions on both sides. Industry needs to respect the residents
                and work within the zoning restrictions as residents have to accept
                some noise and truck traffic during legitimate working hours, not to
                mention the smell of roast coffee.

                The closer you live or work to any problem, the more important it is
                to you personally. The issues that affect our health and personal
                safety are of course the most important, but everything we can work
                on to improve the quality of life for those of us living and/or
                working in Bayview Hunters Point is valid.

                We have a lot to be thankful for in BHP, let's stop to smell the
                roses here too. The combination of the rain and our warm weather
                should be helping everyone's gardens right now.


                --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "thinklizzylou"
                <thinklizzylou@...> wrote:
                >
                > wow, now this is what we need. divisive sarcasm. no thanks.
                >
                > --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "Dust Wells" <dusty.whales@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > I have a two year-old daughter, and I've noticed this terrible
                smell coming out of her diapers. I was dismayed to find poop in
                there. No one told me this "poop" smell was going to be so prevalent
                and frequent. I called the Board of Supervisors to complain, and they
                suggested I march down Market Street to protest. Moreover, I've heard
                this "poop" might be toxic. Something must be done immediately about
                it, and I've called Cindy Shehan to lobby Congress to have these
                diapers areas declared a Super Fund Site. Enough is enough!
                > > Vote No on Prop Poop!
                > >
                > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Alex Lantsberg <lantsberg@>
                wrote:
                > >
                > > > while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed
                > industrial neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about
                the neighborhood's historic development and just why all off these
                types of industries are in a mostly low-income neighborhood -
                historically racist development patterns that put this type of stuff
                in neighborhoods where the people of color and low-incomes lived and
                channeled the poor and black and brown into those neighborhoods.
                > > > we should also lets be clear that while we live in mixed
                industrial neighborhood, a number of these businesses are obligated to
                > operate at a certain level based on their environmental permits.
                the short of it is that when you smell something, that's a particle
                of one sort or another being released into the air for everyone to
                breathe.> > >
                > > > now i don't know about jeremiah's pick (the smell of which i
                > really dig) but for example the darling int'l rendering plant
                should not be fouling up the air of the entire north part of the
                neighborhood whenever we get a warm day with breezes off the bay.
                the sewage treatment plant should not be stinking up a strech of
                third street from islais creek to oakdale.
                > that's why darling invested in a whole bunch of air scrubbers and
                set up the toll free number to report stinkiness. that's why there
                is so much demand to upgrade the sewage treatment facility and move
                some of its stinkiest operations far away from our residential and
                commercial areas.
                > > >
                > > > my point is that while we ought be quite understanding and
                > accepting of the diverse types of businesses we find here, they
                need to be responsible to their own permits and understanding that
                regular working families live down here as well.
                > > >
                > > > aml
                > > >
              • Ivan
                ... neighborhood s ... are in a ... Businesses have to go somewhere, people have to live somewhere, a lot of the poor smartly prefer to live near where they
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
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                  --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Lantsberg" <lantsberg@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed industrial
                  > neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the
                  neighborhood's
                  > historic development and just why all off these types of industries
                  are in a
                  > mostly low-income neighborhood...

                  Businesses have to go somewhere, people have to live somewhere, a lot
                  of the poor smartly prefer to live near where they work. There will
                  always be overlap between modest homes and unclean industry.

                  I do not subscribe to feeling guilty for something some other person's
                  ancestors did. All I can do is try to be a good person today. I chose
                  to live here knowing it's history and it's lack of amenities. People
                  have called my buying a home here "gentrifying", but I just laugh. I'm
                  not clamoring for a Starbucks here or lobbying to close down the
                  rendering plant or widen the sidewalks. I do pick up my street trash
                  and keep my car stereo turned down and help out my friends when they
                  need help. At Thanksgiving, my brother called me a yuppie because I
                  live in SF and voted for Obama. People sure like to label other people
                  but their labels are most often wrong.

                  I am just living life and struggling to be the kind of man persons
                  admire not for his things but for his deeds. 3 people I know have died
                  since November thru accident or illness, none of them old. I don't
                  rail against God or kick my dog for this. It's just life, it can be
                  short, so live it well. Do good deeds. And do stop and smell the roses
                  (and the coffee beans) now and then.

                  Happy New Year to you all, my neighbors.
                  Ivan
                • Dan Dodt
                  Sure. That diesel, grease, rotting meat and simmering sewage has been a part of the Bayview for decades: It has always been that way, so we might as well
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
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                    Sure. That diesel, grease, rotting meat  and simmering sewage has been a part of the Bayview for decades:

                     "It has always been that way, so we might as well accept it". 
                    "That's the way things are down here, get used to it". 
                    "I sure am lucky to be living here in San Francisco, despite the problems". 
                    "We're an industrial area, it's kinda cool to be living here with all that grunge".
                    "We have the best weather in town, but sometimes the sewer plant backs up and there is a nasty smell of burned anchoives. Oh well, my house
                    was cheap".

                    With these rather myopic and resigned postures, it is no wonder that a convergence of citizen participation is so lacking here in our community. Have we given up that easily?

                    BayviewWatcher

                    On Jan 3, 2009, at 10:00 AM, jnaimark@... wrote:

                    count me in on that one.  it is SO time to count our blessings!   jane


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: patti wells <pattiwells73@...>
                    Sent: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 8:49 am
                    Subject: Re: [betterbayview] waterfront smells

                    I'm wth you Ivan- You just read my mind. THanks!

                    On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Ivan T <hulagun66@...> wrote:
                    We do have a beautiful waterfront. At urban and suburban harbors and waterfronts all over the world the varied scents of cooking food, creosote, rotting sea life, salt, seaweed, smoke, grease, diesel fuel and sun on tar do punctuate the ocean breeze now and then. To me just a part of life lived near the waterways.

                    Move into a neighborhood and then complain about legitimate businesses there serving the public and there long before I was? I won't do it. The crack sellers, the shootings, or the bad drivers or other things that are not serving the public good and that risk my life almost daily concern me much more than the occasional annoying smell. 
                    On Jan 3, 2009, at 10:00 AM, jnaimark@... wrote:


                    count me in on that one.  it is SO time to count our blessings!   jane


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: patti wells <pattiwells73@ gmail.com>
                    To: betterbayview@ yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 8:49 am
                    Subject: Re: [betterbayview] waterfront smells

                    I'm wth you Ivan- You just read my mind. THanks!

                    On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Ivan T <hulagun66@yahoo. com> wrote:
                    We do have a beautiful waterfront. At urban and suburban harbors and waterfronts all over the world the varied scents of cooking food, creosote, rotting sea life, salt, seaweed, smoke, grease, diesel fuel and sun on tar do punctuate the ocean breeze now and then. To me just a part of life lived near the waterways.

                    Move into a neighborhood and then complain about legitimate businesses there serving the public and there long before I was? I won't do it. The crack sellers, the shootings, or the bad drivers or other things that are not serving the public good and that risk my life almost daily concern me much more than the occasional annoying smell. 

                    Naturally, if the rendering plant, coffee roasters or the water treatment plant are putting anyone here at some sort of real risk, I want to hear about it.

                    Ivan




                    -- 
                    new cell # 335-3668


                  • jnaimark@aol.com
                    Ivan, i could echo so much of your attitude, especially on my better days.? counting blessings has nothing to do with giving up.? it s about learning to
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
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                      Ivan, i could echo so much of your attitude, especially on my better days.  counting blessings has nothing to do with giving up.  it's about learning to appreciate what we've got AND spreading the blessings around by doing whatever it is that suits our own personalities in the way of helping our communities.     
                      my blessings comment was in reference to the smell of coffee roasting, not toxic smells that i agree are a problem and not to be ignored.
                      may we all be what we can to make bayview better.  i like that idea, and happy new year to all
                                    jane


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Ivan <hulagun66@...>
                      To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:15 am
                      Subject: [betterbayview] Re: neighborhood's (was waterfront smells)

                      --- In betterbayview@ yahoogroups. com, "Alex Lantsberg" <lantsberg@. ..>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed industrial
                      > neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the
                      neighborhood' s
                      > historic development and just why all off these types of industries
                      are in a
                      > mostly low-income neighborhood. ..

                      Businesses have to go somewhere, people have to live somewhere, a lot
                      of the poor smartly prefer to live near where they work. There will
                      always be overlap between modest homes and unclean industry.

                      I do not subscribe to feeling guilty for something some other person's
                      ancestors did. All I can do is try to be a good person today. I chose
                      to live here knowing it's history and it's lack of amenities. People
                      have called my buying a home here "gentrifying" , but I just laugh. I'm
                      not clamoring for a Starbucks here or lobbying to close down the
                      rendering plant or widen the sidewalks. I do pick up my street trash
                      and keep my car stereo turned down and help out my friends when they
                      need help. At Thanksgiving, my brother called me a yuppie because I
                      live in SF and voted for Obama. People sure like to label other people
                      but their labels are most often wrong.

                      I am just living life and struggling to be the kind of man persons
                      admire not for his things but for his deeds. 3 people I know have died
                      since November thru accident or illness, none of them old. I don't
                      rail against God or kick my dog for this. It's just life, it can be
                      short, so live it well. Do good deeds. And do stop and smell the roses
                      (and the coffee beans) now and then.

                      Happy New Year to you all, my neighbors.
                      Ivan

                    • ximena ares
                      Thank you all for your comments. Unfortunately, I can t stand the burned coffee bean smell anymore. ________________________________ From: Dust Wells
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
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                        Thank you all for your comments. 
                        Unfortunately, I can't stand the burned coffee bean smell anymore.


                        From: Dust Wells <dusty.whales@...>
                        To: betterbayview@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 12:09:15 PM
                        Subject: Re: [betterbayview] waterfront smells

                        I have a two year-old daughter, and I've noticed this terrible smell coming out of her diapers. I was dismayed to find poop in there. No one told me this "poop" smell was going to be so prevalent and frequent. I called the Board of Supervisors to complain, and they suggested I march down Market Street to protest. Moreover, I've heard this "poop" might be toxic. Something must be done immediately about it, and I've called Cindy Shehan to lobby Congress to have these diapers areas declared a Super Fund Site.
                         
                        Enough is enough!
                         
                        Vote No on Prop Poop!
                         


                         
                        On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Alex Lantsberg <lantsberg@gmail. com> wrote:

                        while many of us moved here long after this became the mixed industrial neighborhood that it is, we should also be clear about the neighborhood's historic development and just why all off these types of industries are in a mostly low-income neighborhood - historically racist development patterns that put this type of stuff in neighborhoods where the people of color and low-incomes lived and channeled the poor and black and brown into those neighborhoods.  


                        we should also lets be clear that while we live in mixed industrial neighborhood, a number of these businesses are obligated to operate at a certain level based on their environmental permits.  the short of it is that when you smell something, that's a particle of one sort or another being released into the air for everyone to breathe.  

                        now i don't know about jeremiah's pick (the smell of which i really dig) but for example the darling int'l rendering plant should not be fouling up the air of the entire north part of the neighborhood whenever we get a warm day with breezes off the bay.  the sewage treatment plant should not be stinking up a strech of third street from islais creek to oakdale.   that's why darling invested in a whole bunch of air scrubbers and set up the toll free number to report stinkiness.  that's why there is so much demand to upgrade the sewage treatment facility and move some of its stinkiest operations far away from our residential and commercial areas.

                        my point is that while we ought be quite understanding and accepting of the diverse types of businesses we find here, they need to be responsible to their own permits and understanding that regular working families live down here as well.

                        aml




                        --


                        new cell (415) 335-3364

                      • Alex Lantsberg
                        ... i realize its hard to believe, but the question of where to rebuild the digesters puts our neighborhood at a crossroads. one direction is essentially the
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
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                          Anyone who's been to the sewer plant meetings knows the odor is an indication of something inadequate with the digesters. That's why there's an economically feasible plan to rebuild them with lids right where they are, and keep the odor contained.







                          i realize its hard to believe, but the question of where to rebuild the digesters puts our neighborhood at a crossroads. one direction is essentially the status quo: the digesters get rebuilt at the current footprint but we gussy them up a bit, we keep the costs low, and that's all there is to it.  i believe that this is penny wise but pound foolish: moving them yield significant benefits to our neighborhood's continued revitalization as well as to the city as a whole for about a 10% increase in the cost of the entire sewer system master plan.

                          first off, we will address a long-standing injustice that led to the bayview becoming the city's outhouse.  its symbolic, but symbolism is important in my book.

                          second, dramatically improve our western gateway and northern commercial areas.  the 3rd street light rail is a major public investment meant to strengthen the neighborhood's connections to the city and moving the digesters will reinforce and build upon that investment by removing a major blight and opening up space for much more neighborhood friendly/serving uses.  additionally, there's been talk of building a caltrain and now a high speed rail station just north of oakdale and this makes much more sense without massive infrastructure right there. i think the benefits for the folks who live immediately next to the plant go without saying.  since this is all a tax increment area, the tax increment from the appreciation of the nearby private lands would go directly back into more neighborhood improvements.

                          third, it will help the port by making some much needed improvements in the backlands.  that area needs a lot of help but the port doesn't have the money to do much (or frankly anywhere along the waterfront) and has regulatory constraints on what it can actually do with the land in terms of revenue generation.  not only would the digesters provide a stabilizing investment into that area, they would anchor a reclamation eco-industrial park with bio-diesel manufacturing, building materials reclamation, and food waste to energy and buffer some of the other port users (concrete manufacturing, aggregate handling, fat rendering)  from the rest of the neighborhood.  

                          finally,these neighborhood improvements would basically be paid a $19 to $1 match by the rest of the city's residents and businesses (we have about 5% of the city's population).  our neighborhood gets the benefits the rest of the city pays the vast majority of the freight.  i see this as a good thing.

                          the decision on the new location will be made over the course of the next 18 months or so. i'll keep folks apprised as the process unfolds.

                          aml
                        • thinklizzylou
                          Symbolism is important. It can also be referred to as The Broken Windows Theory. Basically, when a building allows a broken window to remain unfixed-according
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
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                            Symbolism is important. It can also be referred to as The Broken
                            Windows Theory. Basically, when a building allows a broken window to
                            remain unfixed-according to this theory-more blight and then crime
                            follows. This theory is widely accepted and the effects of it can be
                            seen in neglected urban neighborhoods across the country.
                            Bayview-Hunter's Point is one example of this. That is why adopt the
                            block programs exist. That is why putting gardens on our medians has
                            reduced illegal dumping. That is why our monthly police meetings are
                            important. That is why tree planting is advantageous. It shows, among
                            many other things, that people care about their neighborhoods.

                            This is why many of us advocate and fight for the little things to get
                            fixed, cleaned up, or addressed in our neighborhood from graffiti
                            removal to the smells to noise issues. The mentality that this is the
                            way it is in Bayview baffles me. That always reminds me of what the
                            big politicos say-and I don't agree. When smaller crimes, code
                            violations and laws of a community are left accepted and unaddressed,
                            this leads to bigger crimes and code violations. Hence why so many
                            folks out here have 3-1-1 on speed dial. We have not given up, we have
                            just begun.

                            Our neighborhood houses a huge toilet and not just for San Francisco
                            but for Brisbane. It stinks up our air. It covers many city blocks.
                            It is not healthy to breathe. It is an eye soar. It would never have
                            been allowed any other place and that is why it is here and that is
                            just plain crap.

                            Please keep us updated Alex and thanks for all of your hardwork.




                            --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Lantsberg" <lantsberg@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > > Anyone who's been to the sewer plant meetings knows the odor is an
                            > > indication of something inadequate with the digesters. That's why
                            there's an
                            > > economically feasible plan to rebuild them with lids right where
                            they are,
                            > > and keep the odor contained.
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > i realize its hard to believe, but the question of where to rebuild the
                            > digesters puts our neighborhood at a crossroads. one direction is
                            > essentially the status quo: the digesters get rebuilt at the current
                            > footprint but we gussy them up a bit, we keep the costs low, and
                            that's all
                            > there is to it. i believe that this is penny wise but pound
                            foolish: moving
                            > them yield significant benefits to our neighborhood's continued
                            > revitalization as well as to the city as a whole for about a 10%
                            increase in
                            > the cost of the entire sewer system master plan.
                            >
                            > first off, we will address a long-standing injustice that led to the
                            bayview
                            > becoming the city's outhouse. its symbolic, but symbolism is
                            important in
                            > my book.
                            >
                            > second, dramatically improve our western gateway and northern commercial
                            > areas. the 3rd street light rail is a major public investment meant to
                            > strengthen the neighborhood's connections to the city and moving the
                            > digesters will reinforce and build upon that investment by removing
                            a major
                            > blight and opening up space for much more neighborhood friendly/serving
                            > uses. additionally, there's been talk of building a caltrain and
                            now a high
                            > speed rail station just north of oakdale and this makes much more sense
                            > without massive infrastructure right there. i think the benefits for the
                            > folks who live immediately next to the plant go without saying.
                            since this
                            > is all a tax increment area, the tax increment from the appreciation
                            of the
                            > nearby private lands would go directly back into more neighborhood
                            > improvements.
                            >
                            > third, it will help the port by making some much needed improvements
                            in the
                            > backlands. that area needs a lot of help but the port doesn't have the
                            > money to do much (or frankly anywhere along the waterfront) and has
                            > regulatory constraints on what it can actually do with the land in
                            terms of
                            > revenue generation. not only would the digesters provide a stabilizing
                            > investment into that area, they would anchor a reclamation
                            eco-industrial
                            > park with bio-diesel manufacturing, building materials reclamation,
                            and food
                            > waste to energy and buffer some of the other port users (concrete
                            > manufacturing, aggregate handling, fat rendering) from the rest of the
                            > neighborhood.
                            >
                            > finally,these neighborhood improvements would basically be paid a
                            $19 to $1
                            > match by the rest of the city's residents and businesses (we have
                            about 5%
                            > of the city's population). our neighborhood gets the benefits the
                            rest of
                            > the city pays the vast majority of the freight. i see this as a
                            good thing.
                            >
                            > the decision on the new location will be made over the course of the
                            next 18
                            > months or so. i'll keep folks apprised as the process unfolds.
                            >
                            > aml
                            >
                          • Sheila Jaswal
                            Yes, thanks Alex for working on this issue, and everyone for the time you take to do little daily things, reporting bigger things, and working on these
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
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                              Yes, thanks Alex for working on this issue, and everyone for the time you take to do little daily things, reporting bigger things, and working on these different neighborhood committees and being involved with all the meetings, the tree plantings, the gardens, etc.  Everything is definitely making a difference and we really appreciate it.  And we definitely enjoy and sing the praises of many aspects of our neighborhood that make it a great place for our family right now, today.
                              Happy New Year!
                              Sheila & Meg




                              Please keep us updated Alex and thanks for all of your hardwork.




                            • Alex Lantsberg
                              thanks but while my activism has focused on this for the past decade, its been the ongoing support of the folks who live in the neighborhood that s really kept
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
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                                thanks but while my activism has focused on this for the past decade, its been the ongoing support of the folks who live in the neighborhood that's really kept it alive and made progress over these years.  and it will be all of your participation in the next two years that will get us over the hump and make the changes that have been demanded for a long time before i ever moved to the neighborhood..  if you're a facebook user check out the SWAle group  that I just set up.

                                aml
                              • Ivan
                                ... Nothing myopic about not jumping on a bandwagon. Many of us moved here because we LIKE it, along with some of its warts. If you are hoping Bayview will
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jan 4, 2009
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                                  --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, Dan Dodt <dodt@...> wrote:

                                  > With these rather myopic and resigned postures, it is no wonder that
                                  > a convergence of citizen participation is so lacking here in our
                                  > community. Have we given up that easily?


                                  Nothing myopic about not jumping on a bandwagon. Many of us moved here
                                  because we LIKE it, along with some of its warts. If you are hoping
                                  Bayview will morph into another Marina district, relax, it's gonna be
                                  awhile.

                                  Hopefully never...

                                  Ivan
                                • Dan Dodt
                                  Hello Ivan, There may be a misinterpretation here. Seeing how high we are supposed to jump is precisely the issue, and one to avoid. Those of us who chose to
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jan 5, 2009
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                                    Hello Ivan,
                                    There may be a misinterpretation here. Seeing how high we are
                                    supposed to 'jump' is precisely the issue, and one to avoid.
                                    Those of us who chose to move here, witnessing decades of evolving
                                    citizen participation, understand as you do that the 'Marina'
                                    scenario is
                                    highly unlikely and undesirable.
                                    Dan

                                    On Jan 4, 2009, at 11:58 PM, Ivan wrote:

                                    > --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, Dan Dodt <dodt@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > With these rather myopic and resigned postures, it is no wonder that
                                    > > a convergence of citizen participation is so lacking here in our
                                    > > community. Have we given up that easily?
                                    >
                                    > Nothing myopic about not jumping on a bandwagon. Many of us moved here
                                    > because we LIKE it, along with some of its warts. If you are hoping
                                    > Bayview will morph into another Marina district, relax, it's gonna be
                                    > awhile.
                                    >
                                    > Hopefully never...
                                    >
                                    > Ivan
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Alex Lantsberg
                                    and to second dan, the neighborhood s environmental justice movement is anything but a bandwagon. its been around in various incarnations long before a lot us
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jan 5, 2009
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                                      and to second dan, the neighborhood's environmental justice movement is anything but a bandwagon.  its been around in various incarnations long before a lot us moved here.  i'm going to go out on a limb and say that turning our neighborhood into the marina or noe valley are the last things on our mind.  but that doesn't mean that we allow industrial polluters to have their way with the environment that we share.
                                    • Alex Lantsberg
                                      for facebooking better bayviewers...i d like to invite y all to join the SWAle group that I just set up to provide updates on the sewer system master plan as
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jan 5, 2009
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                                        for facebooking better bayviewers...i'd like to invite y'all to join the SWAle group that I just set up to provide updates on the sewer system master plan as it heads into the home stretch.  here's the link...

                                        http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=43837056669

                                        alex
                                      • Dan Dodt
                                        A, Indeed. The larger behind the scenes work that actually delivers results involves understanding where acquiescence may (unintentionally)occur and letting
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jan 5, 2009
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                                          A,
                                          Indeed. The larger behind the scenes work that actually delivers
                                          results involves understanding where acquiescence may
                                          (unintentionally)occur and letting the govt. employees and
                                          'appointees' know that we are not likely to put up with it. I know
                                          that you have been diligent in being a shoe at the appropriate
                                          backside when required. It is gratifying to see some of the newer
                                          residents taking these issues as fundamental to the future we
                                          continue to build here in BVHP. There is always added 'particulate
                                          matter' and 'noise' (sometimes even from City Hall!- imagine that)
                                          which often stifles pragmatism and progress. Limb sitting can be
                                          instructive.
                                          Onward and Happy New Year to you and yours.
                                          Dan

                                          On Jan 5, 2009, at 11:15 AM, Alex Lantsberg wrote:

                                          > and to second dan, the neighborhood's environmental justice
                                          > movement is anything but a bandwagon. its been around in various
                                          > incarnations long before a lot us moved here. i'm going to go out
                                          > on a limb and say that turning our neighborhood into the marina or
                                          > noe valley are the last things on our mind. but that doesn't mean
                                          > that we allow industrial polluters to have their way with the
                                          > environment that we share.
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • kikishadow@sonic.net
                                          I have to say that when I read the betterbayview group letters on the 4th or 5th at some ungodly hour (have you noticed we do have some night owls) I laughed
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jan 6, 2009
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                                            I have to say that when I read the betterbayview group letters on the
                                            4th or 5th at some ungodly hour (have you noticed we do have some night
                                            owls) I laughed to read the posting from Dust Wells. I know how serious
                                            a the environmental issues are, and we all spend very much time related
                                            to these issues, but sometimes it is good to see a Sat. Night Live take
                                            on these things. And yes I am happy Al Franken won.
                                            Pauline
                                          • patti wells
                                            In agreement there What s wrong with a laugh here and there! Vote no on Prop Poop!!!! ... -- new cell # 335-3668
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jan 6, 2009
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                                              In agreement there
                                              What's wrong with a laugh here and there!
                                              Vote no on Prop Poop!!!!
                                              On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 4:05 AM, <kikishadow@...> wrote:

                                              I have to say that when I read the betterbayview group letters on the
                                              4th or 5th at some ungodly hour (have you noticed we do have some night
                                              owls) I laughed to read the posting from Dust Wells. I know how serious
                                              a the environmental issues are, and we all spend very much time related
                                              to these issues, but sometimes it is good to see a Sat. Night Live take
                                              on these things. And yes I am happy Al Franken won.
                                              Pauline




                                              --
                                              new cell # 335-3668
                                            • bayview94124
                                              Expanding the sewer plant footprint and moving the digesters onto landfill is not only an economic disaster it s a permanent turd on the waterfront. Though I
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
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                                                Expanding the sewer plant footprint and moving the digesters onto
                                                landfill is not only an economic disaster it's a permanent turd on
                                                the waterfront. Though I live near it and work facing it, I say keep
                                                it where it is, or use the undesirable land beside and beneath the
                                                freeway. Don't grab the land off Islais Creek, nor by the bay.

                                                Putting a new sewage plant with a 100+ year lifespan on our
                                                waterfront, in the warmest part of the city, stinks. Suggesting we
                                                benefit is slight of hand. Somebody always benefits from a deal like
                                                this, but it isn't the community.

                                                --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Lantsberg"
                                                <lantsberg@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                > > Anyone who's been to the sewer plant meetings knows the odor is an
                                                > > indication of something inadequate with the digesters. That's why
                                                there's an
                                                > > economically feasible plan to rebuild them with lids right where
                                                they are,
                                                > > and keep the odor contained.
                                                > >--------
                                                > > i realize its hard to believe, but the question of where to
                                                rebuild the
                                                > digesters puts our neighborhood at a crossroads. one direction is
                                                > essentially the status quo: the digesters get rebuilt at the current
                                                > footprint but we gussy them up a bit, we keep the costs low, and
                                                that's all
                                                > there is to it. i believe that this is penny wise but pound
                                                foolish: moving
                                                > them yield significant benefits to our neighborhood's continued
                                                > revitalization as well as to the city as a whole for about a 10%
                                                increase in
                                                > the cost of the entire sewer system master plan.
                                                >
                                                > first off, we will address a long-standing injustice that led to
                                                the bayview
                                                > becoming the city's outhouse. its symbolic, but symbolism is
                                                important in
                                                > my book.
                                                >
                                                > second, dramatically improve our western gateway and northern
                                                commercial
                                                > areas. the 3rd street light rail is a major public investment
                                                meant to
                                                > strengthen the neighborhood's connections to the city and moving the
                                                > digesters will reinforce and build upon that investment by removing
                                                a major
                                                > blight and opening up space for much more neighborhood
                                                friendly/serving
                                                > uses. additionally, there's been talk of building a caltrain and
                                                now a high
                                                > speed rail station just north of oakdale and this makes much more
                                                sense
                                                > without massive infrastructure right there. i think the benefits
                                                for the
                                                > folks who live immediately next to the plant go without saying.
                                                since this
                                                > is all a tax increment area, the tax increment from the
                                                appreciation of the
                                                > nearby private lands would go directly back into more neighborhood
                                                > improvements.
                                                >
                                                > third, it will help the port by making some much needed
                                                improvements in the
                                                > backlands. that area needs a lot of help but the port doesn't have
                                                the
                                                > money to do much (or frankly anywhere along the waterfront) and has
                                                > regulatory constraints on what it can actually do with the land in
                                                terms of
                                                > revenue generation. not only would the digesters provide a
                                                stabilizing
                                                > investment into that area, they would anchor a reclamation eco-
                                                industrial
                                                > park with bio-diesel manufacturing, building materials reclamation,
                                                and food
                                                > waste to energy and buffer some of the other port users (concrete
                                                > manufacturing, aggregate handling, fat rendering) from the rest of
                                                the
                                                > neighborhood.
                                                >
                                                > finally,these neighborhood improvements would basically be paid a
                                                $19 to $1
                                                > match by the rest of the city's residents and businesses (we have
                                                about 5%
                                                > of the city's population). our neighborhood gets the benefits the
                                                rest of
                                                > the city pays the vast majority of the freight. i see this as a
                                                good thing.
                                                >
                                                > the decision on the new location will be made over the course of
                                                the next 18
                                                > months or so. i'll keep folks apprised as the process unfolds.
                                                >
                                                > aml
                                                >
                                              • Alex Lantsberg
                                                i guess we ll agree to disagree on this as well as advocate for and organize around our respective positions.
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  i guess we'll agree to disagree on this as well as advocate for and organize around our respective positions. 

                                                  On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:10 PM, bayview94124 <mendellapt@...> wrote:

                                                  Expanding the sewer plant footprint and moving the digesters onto
                                                  landfill is not only an economic disaster it's a permanent turd on
                                                  the waterfront. Though I live near it and work facing it, I say keep
                                                  it where it is, or use the undesirable land beside and beneath the
                                                  freeway. Don't grab the land off Islais Creek, nor by the bay.

                                                  Putting a new sewage plant with a 100+ year lifespan on our
                                                  waterfront, in the warmest part of the city, stinks. Suggesting we
                                                  benefit is slight of hand. Somebody always benefits from a deal like
                                                  this, but it isn't the community.

                                                  --- In betterbayview@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Lantsberg"
                                                  <lantsberg@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Anyone who's been to the sewer plant meetings knows the odor is an
                                                  > > indication of something inadequate with the digesters. That's why
                                                  there's an
                                                  > > economically feasible plan to rebuild them with lids right where
                                                  they are,
                                                  > > and keep the odor contained.
                                                  > >--------
                                                  > > i realize its hard to believe, but the question of where to
                                                  rebuild the
                                                  > digesters puts our neighborhood at a crossroads. one direction is
                                                  > essentially the status quo: the digesters get rebuilt at the current
                                                  > footprint but we gussy them up a bit, we keep the costs low, and
                                                  that's all
                                                  > there is to it. i believe that this is penny wise but pound
                                                  foolish: moving
                                                  > them yield significant benefits to our neighborhood's continued
                                                  > revitalization as well as to the city as a whole for about a 10%
                                                  increase in
                                                  > the cost of the entire sewer system master plan.
                                                  >
                                                  > first off, we will address a long-standing injustice that led to
                                                  the bayview
                                                  > becoming the city's outhouse. its symbolic, but symbolism is
                                                  important in
                                                  > my book.
                                                  >
                                                  > second, dramatically improve our western gateway and northern
                                                  commercial
                                                  > areas. the 3rd street light rail is a major public investment
                                                  meant to
                                                  > strengthen the neighborhood's connections to the city and moving the
                                                  > digesters will reinforce and build upon that investment by removing
                                                  a major
                                                  > blight and opening up space for much more neighborhood
                                                  friendly/serving
                                                  > uses. additionally, there's been talk of building a caltrain and
                                                  now a high
                                                  > speed rail station just north of oakdale and this makes much more
                                                  sense
                                                  > without massive infrastructure right there. i think the benefits
                                                  for the
                                                  > folks who live immediately next to the plant go without saying.
                                                  since this
                                                  > is all a tax increment area, the tax increment from the
                                                  appreciation of the
                                                  > nearby private lands would go directly back into more neighborhood
                                                  > improvements.
                                                  >
                                                  > third, it will help the port by making some much needed
                                                  improvements in the
                                                  > backlands. that area needs a lot of help but the port doesn't have
                                                  the
                                                  > money to do much (or frankly anywhere along the waterfront) and has
                                                  > regulatory constraints on what it can actually do with the land in
                                                  terms of
                                                  > revenue generation. not only would the digesters provide a
                                                  stabilizing
                                                  > investment into that area, they would anchor a reclamation eco-
                                                  industrial
                                                  > park with bio-diesel manufacturing, building materials reclamation,
                                                  and food
                                                  > waste to energy and buffer some of the other port users (concrete
                                                  > manufacturing, aggregate handling, fat rendering) from the rest of
                                                  the
                                                  > neighborhood.
                                                  >
                                                  > finally,these neighborhood improvements would basically be paid a
                                                  $19 to $1
                                                  > match by the rest of the city's residents and businesses (we have
                                                  about 5%
                                                  > of the city's population). our neighborhood gets the benefits the
                                                  rest of
                                                  > the city pays the vast majority of the freight. i see this as a
                                                  good thing.
                                                  >
                                                  > the decision on the new location will be made over the course of
                                                  the next 18
                                                  > months or so. i'll keep folks apprised as the process unfolds.
                                                  >
                                                  > aml
                                                  >


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