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Sonata #8, Op 13 "Pathetique"

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  • Richard Mathisen
    Preliminary rankings for recordings of Beethoven piano sonata #8, Op 13. These rankings were made as of July, 2008. They do not include recordings with
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 29, 2009
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      Preliminary rankings for recordings of Beethoven piano sonata #8, Op 13. These rankings were made as of July, 2008. They do not include recordings with inadequate sound quality, although my list will be expanded to include such recordings where appropriate.

      I encourage everyone to suggest their own favorite recordings of the Pathetique Sonata, Op 13.

      Dick Mathisen


      Op 13

      01 Gieseking 1956
      02 Horowitz 1963
      03 Ashkenazy
      04 Richter Studio
      05 Roberts
      06 Badura-Skoda1
      07 Jando
      08 A. Fischer
      09 Schiff
      10 Pollini
      11 Oppitz
      12 Klien
      13 Lipkin
      14 Rubinstein 1962
      15 Barenboim2
    • dmitri knessin
      I am curious about the Richter-Haaser recording..... I think he recorded it. I am (again) surprised to see Horowitz, Rubinstein and Schiff up there.   ...
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 29, 2009
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        I am curious about the Richter-Haaser recording..... I think he recorded it.

        I am (again) surprised to see Horowitz, Rubinstein and Schiff up there.



         



        --- On Thu, 10/29/09, Richard Mathisen <richard.mathisen@...> wrote:

        From: Richard Mathisen <richard.mathisen@...>
        Subject: [beethovensonatas] Sonata #8, Op 13 "Pathetique"
        To: beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, October 29, 2009, 11:10 AM

         

        Preliminary rankings for recordings of Beethoven piano sonata #8, Op 13. These rankings were made as of July, 2008. They do not include recordings with inadequate sound quality, although my list will be expanded to include such recordings where appropriate.

        I encourage everyone to suggest their own favorite recordings of the Pathetique Sonata, Op 13.

        Dick Mathisen


        Op 13

        01 Gieseking 1956
        02 Horowitz 1963
        03 Ashkenazy
        04 Richter Studio
        05 Roberts
        06 Badura-Skoda1
        07 Jando
        08 A. Fischer
        09 Schiff
        10 Pollini
        11 Oppitz
        12 Klien
        13 Lipkin
        14 Rubinstein 1962
        15 Barenboim2


      • John Endicott
        Ivan Moravec! J ________________________________ From: Richard Mathisen To: beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, October
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 29, 2009
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          Ivan Moravec!
           
          J


          From: Richard Mathisen <richard.mathisen@...>
          To: beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, October 29, 2009 4:10:45 AM
          Subject: [beethovensonatas] Sonata #8, Op 13 "Pathetique"

           

          Preliminary rankings for recordings of Beethoven piano sonata #8, Op 13. These rankings were made as of July, 2008. They do not include recordings with inadequate sound quality, although my list will be expanded to include such recordings where appropriate.

          I encourage everyone to suggest their own favorite recordings of the Pathetique Sonata, Op 13.

          Dick Mathisen


          Op 13

          01 Gieseking 1956
          02 Horowitz 1963
          03 Ashkenazy
          04 Richter Studio
          05 Roberts
          06 Badura-Skoda1
          07 Jando
          08 A. Fischer
          09 Schiff
          10 Pollini
          11 Oppitz
          12 Klien
          13 Lipkin
          14 Rubinstein 1962
          15 Barenboim2


        • George
          Strongly seconded!! He s my favorite too!
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 30, 2009
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            Strongly seconded!!

            He's my favorite too!


            --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com, John Endicott <jeendicott@...> wrote:
            >
            > Ivan Moravec!
            >
            > J
            >
          • dmanildi
            I join in the strongest possible vote for Moravec, and am unable to understand his apparent elimination from the 15 versions listed. D.Manildi
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 2, 2009
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              I join in the strongest possible vote for Moravec, and am unable to understand his apparent elimination from the 15 versions listed.

              D.Manildi

              --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com, "George" <gperkins151@...> wrote:
              >
              > Strongly seconded!!
              >
              > He's my favorite too!
              >
              >
              > --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com, John Endicott <jeendicott@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Ivan Moravec!
              > >
              > > J
              > >
              >
            • Richard Mathisen
              George, John, Dmitri, Moravec: I admit that I somehow overlooked the Moravec recording of Op 13 when I compiled my preliminary list of favorites in July 2008.
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 2, 2009
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                George, John, Dmitri,

                Moravec:

                I admit that I somehow overlooked the Moravec recording of Op 13 when I compiled my preliminary list of favorites in July 2008. I have listened to the Moravec recording recently. It seems like it should be at least in my "Top 10." (I am currently listening to all my recordings of Op 13, some 89 of them, as part of my usual procedure.)

                Again, I do encourage you and others to post your own list(s) of favorite recordings of Op 13 (the "Pathetique")!

                Richter-Haaser:

                Reently, I have listened twice to the Richter-Haaser recording of Op 13 (from November 1955). The Richter-Haaser recording will *not* rank very high in my list of favorites, despite the fact that there is much to admire. Richter-Haaser's playing is elegant and polished and displays exemplary clarity. Every note is in place and carefully balanced. Yet there is little energy or emotion. When compared to other recordings of Op 13, the other recordings usually seem preferable to me.

                In this regard, I recall my own first exposure to Richter-Haaser in 1961, while I was still in high school. I acquired an LP of two of Beethoven's late sonatas played by Richter-Haaser (if memory serves, it was Op 109 and Op 110). I was a big fan of Sviatoslav Richter back then, as I still am, and was a bit confused by the similar name. At first, I really liked the Richter-Haaser recordings for their clarity, since late Beethoven sonatas are very difficult to play with clarity. However, repeated re-hearings left me feeling that the recordings were empty and I stopped listening to them. My reaction to Richter-Haaser's recording of the Pathetique today seems to be very similar to my reaction to Richter-Haaser back then. I admire his playing and I can understand why others admire his playing, but it seems to me to be missing something very important.

                Dick Mathisen

                --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com, "George" <gperkins151@...> wrote:
                >
                > Strongly seconded!!
                >
                > He's my favorite too!
                >
                >
                > --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com, John Endicott <jeendicott@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Ivan Moravec!
                > >
                > > J
                > >
                >
              • John Duffy
                Dear Dick Mathisen, Have you considered Artur Pizarro, the Portuguese pianist, recording for LINN Records? John Duffy
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 2, 2009
                Dear Dick Mathisen,
                Have you considered Artur Pizarro,
                the Portuguese pianist, recording for LINN Records?
              • dmitri knessin
                I see your point. as you know my admiration for Richter Haaser is based on the fugue of the hammerklavier. He played it like it was A fugue instead of THE
                Message 8 of 16 , Nov 2, 2009
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                  I see your point. as you know my admiration for Richter Haaser is based on the fugue of the hammerklavier. He played it like it was 'A' fugue instead of THE FUGUE.... technically it was the best I heard.... and it was in good style. WTK style no I come to think of it....

                  but I understand if you would find that lacking in energy.


                   

                   




                  --- On Mon, 11/2/09, Richard Mathisen <richard.mathisen@...> wrote:

                  From: Richard Mathisen <richard.mathisen@...>
                  Subject: [beethovensonatas] Op 13 -- Moravec, Richter-Haaser
                  To: beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, November 2, 2009, 4:00 PM

                   

                  George, John, Dmitri,

                  Moravec:

                  I admit that I somehow overlooked the Moravec recording of Op 13 when I compiled my preliminary list of favorites in July 2008. I have listened to the Moravec recording recently. It seems like it should be at least in my "Top 10." (I am currently listening to all my recordings of Op 13, some 89 of them, as part of my usual procedure.)

                  Again, I do encourage you and others to post your own list(s) of favorite recordings of Op 13 (the "Pathetique" )!

                  Richter-Haaser:

                  Reently, I have listened twice to the Richter-Haaser recording of Op 13 (from November 1955). The Richter-Haaser recording will *not* rank very high in my list of favorites, despite the fact that there is much to admire. Richter-Haaser' s playing is elegant and polished and displays exemplary clarity. Every note is in place and carefully balanced. Yet there is little energy or emotion. When compared to other recordings of Op 13, the other recordings usually seem preferable to me.

                  In this regard, I recall my own first exposure to Richter-Haaser in 1961, while I was still in high school. I acquired an LP of two of Beethoven's late sonatas played by Richter-Haaser (if memory serves, it was Op 109 and Op 110). I was a big fan of Sviatoslav Richter back then, as I still am, and was a bit confused by the similar name. At first, I really liked the Richter-Haaser recordings for their clarity, since late Beethoven sonatas are very difficult to play with clarity. However, repeated re-hearings left me feeling that the recordings were empty and I stopped listening to them. My reaction to Richter-Haaser' s recording of the Pathetique today seems to be very similar to my reaction to Richter-Haaser back then. I admire his playing and I can understand why others admire his playing, but it seems to me to be missing something very important.

                  Dick Mathisen

                  --- In beethovensonatas@ yahoogroups. com, "George" <gperkins151@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Strongly seconded!!
                  >
                  > He's my favorite too!
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In beethovensonatas@ yahoogroups. com, John Endicott <jeendicott@ > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Ivan Moravec!
                  > >
                  > > J
                  > >
                  >


                • George
                  Hi Dick. My Pathetique picks (in order): Moravec Richter(Melodiya) Serkin(mono) Serkin(stereo) Annie Fischer Gilels (DG) Nat (EMI) Kovacevich (EMI) Gulda
                  Message 9 of 16 , Nov 3, 2009
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                    Hi Dick.

                    My Pathetique picks (in order):

                    Moravec
                    Richter(Melodiya)
                    Serkin(mono)
                    Serkin(stereo)
                    Annie Fischer
                    Gilels (DG)
                    Nat (EMI)
                    Kovacevich (EMI)
                    Gulda (Amadeo, Brilliant)
                    Backhaus (stereo)
                    Schnabel (Naxos)

                    George




                    --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mathisen" <richard.mathisen@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > George, John, Dmitri,
                    >
                    > Moravec:
                    >
                    > I admit that I somehow overlooked the Moravec recording of Op 13 when I compiled my preliminary list of favorites in July 2008. I have listened to the Moravec recording recently. It seems like it should be at least in my "Top 10." (I am currently listening to all my recordings of Op 13, some 89 of them, as part of my usual procedure.)
                    >
                    > Again, I do encourage you and others to post your own list(s) of favorite recordings of Op 13 (the "Pathetique")!
                  • Richard A Mathisen
                    George, Thank you very much! I always look forward to seeing your choices, partly because I always learn from them. When you specify Richter (Melodiya), I
                    Message 10 of 16 , Nov 3, 2009
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                      George,
                       
                      Thank you very much! I always look forward to seeing your choices, partly because I always learn from them.
                       
                      When you specify "Richter (Melodiya)," I assume you are referring to Richter's live performance from 1958 rather than the studio recording from 1959. Is that correct? If so, could you say a few words about why you prefer one over the other? (I'm not arguing with you, I'm just curious!)
                       
                      When you mention Annie Fischer, I'm sure you mean the standard recording from the box set, not the much earlier EMI studio recording.
                       
                      Have you encountered any of the Edwin Fischer recordings of the Pathetique?
                       
                      Thanks again for your list! Sorry about the questions, but I just like to pick your brain!
                       
                      Dick Mathisen

                      On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 7:03 AM, George <gperkins151@...> wrote:
                       

                      Hi Dick.

                      My Pathetique picks (in order):

                      Moravec
                      Richter(Melodiya)
                      Serkin(mono)
                      Serkin(stereo)
                      Annie Fischer
                      Gilels (DG)
                      Nat (EMI)
                      Kovacevich (EMI)
                      Gulda (Amadeo, Brilliant)
                      Backhaus (stereo)
                      Schnabel (Naxos)

                      George



                      --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mathisen" <richard.mathisen@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > George, John, Dmitri,
                      >
                      > Moravec:
                      >
                      > I admit that I somehow overlooked the Moravec recording of Op 13 when I compiled my preliminary list of favorites in July 2008. I have listened to the Moravec recording recently. It seems like it should be at least in my "Top 10." (I am currently listening to all my recordings of Op 13, some 89 of them, as part of my usual procedure.)
                      >
                      > Again, I do encourage you and others to post your own list(s) of favorite recordings of Op 13 (the "Pathetique")!


                    • wkasimer@comcast.net
                      I ve just begun going through my recordings of this sonata; so far, Zoltan Kocsis heads the short list, and by a considerable margin. Bill =============
                      Message 11 of 16 , Nov 3, 2009
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                        I've just begun going through my recordings of this sonata; so far, Zoltan Kocsis heads the short list, and by a considerable margin.

                        Bill

                        =============
                        William D. Kasimer
                        wkasimer@...
                        william_kasimer_md@...
                      • John Duffy
                        Dear Mr. Mathisen, Has Artur Pizarro s recording for Linn been considered and / or eliminated ? john Duffy
                        Message 12 of 16 , Nov 3, 2009
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                          Dear Mr. Mathisen,
                          Has Artur Pizarro's recording for Linn
                          been considered and / or eliminated ?
                          john Duffy


                          > I join in the strongest possible vote for Moravec,
                          > and am unable to understand his apparent
                          > elimination from the 15 versions listed.
                          > D.Manildi
                        • George
                          I only have the 1959 performance by Richter and wasn t aware that there is another one. Can you tell me more about it? For Annie Fischer, yes I mean the
                          Message 13 of 16 , Nov 4, 2009
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                            I only have the 1959 performance by Richter and wasn't aware that there is another one. Can you tell me more about it?

                            For Annie Fischer, yes I mean the Hungaroton. I should compare the EMI, though as I got it recently.

                            I think I have Edwin Fischer's Pathetique, but haven't got to it yet. Will let you know about this and Annie's EMI recording.

                            George

                            --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com, Richard A Mathisen <richard.a.mathisen@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > George,
                            >
                            > Thank you very much! I always look forward to seeing your choices, partly
                            > because I always learn from them.
                            >
                            > When you specify "Richter (Melodiya)," I assume you are referring
                            > to Richter's live performance from 1958 rather than the studio recording
                            > from 1959. Is that correct? If so, could you say a few words about why you
                            > prefer one over the other? (I'm not arguing with you, I'm just curious!)
                            >
                            > When you mention Annie Fischer, I'm sure you mean the standard recording
                            > from the box set, not the much earlier EMI studio recording.
                            >
                            > Have you encountered any of the Edwin Fischer recordings of the Pathetique?
                            >
                            > Thanks again for your list! Sorry about the questions, but I just like to
                            > pick your brain!
                            >
                            > Dick Mathisen
                            >
                            > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 7:03 AM, George <gperkins151@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hi Dick.
                            > >
                            > > My Pathetique picks (in order):
                            > >
                            > > Moravec
                            > > Richter(Melodiya)
                            > > Serkin(mono)
                            > > Serkin(stereo)
                            > > Annie Fischer
                            > > Gilels (DG)
                            > > Nat (EMI)
                            > > Kovacevich (EMI)
                            > > Gulda (Amadeo, Brilliant)
                            > > Backhaus (stereo)
                            > > Schnabel (Naxos)
                            > >
                            > > George
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com<beethovensonatas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            > > "Richard Mathisen" <richard.mathisen@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > George, John, Dmitri,
                            > > >
                            > > > Moravec:
                            > > >
                            > > > I admit that I somehow overlooked the Moravec recording of Op 13 when I
                            > > compiled my preliminary list of favorites in July 2008. I have listened to
                            > > the Moravec recording recently. It seems like it should be at least in my
                            > > "Top 10." (I am currently listening to all my recordings of Op 13, some 89
                            > > of them, as part of my usual procedure.)
                            > > >
                            > > > Again, I do encourage you and others to post your own list(s) of favorite
                            > > recordings of Op 13 (the "Pathetique")!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • George
                            Oh, I see, the Parnassus recording by Richter is live. I don t recall comparing the two, but should do that as well. Now I have a lot of homework. :-) G
                            Message 14 of 16 , Nov 4, 2009
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                              Oh, I see, the Parnassus recording by Richter is live. I don't recall comparing the two, but should do that as well.

                              Now I have a lot of homework. :-)

                              G

                              --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com, Richard A Mathisen <richard.a.mathisen@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > George,
                              >
                              > Thank you very much! I always look forward to seeing your choices, partly
                              > because I always learn from them.
                              >
                              > When you specify "Richter (Melodiya)," I assume you are referring
                              > to Richter's live performance from 1958 rather than the studio recording
                              > from 1959. Is that correct? If so, could you say a few words about why you
                              > prefer one over the other? (I'm not arguing with you, I'm just curious!)
                              >
                              > When you mention Annie Fischer, I'm sure you mean the standard recording
                              > from the box set, not the much earlier EMI studio recording.
                              >
                              > Have you encountered any of the Edwin Fischer recordings of the Pathetique?
                              >
                              > Thanks again for your list! Sorry about the questions, but I just like to
                              > pick your brain!
                              >
                              > Dick Mathisen
                              >
                              > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 7:03 AM, George <gperkins151@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hi Dick.
                              > >
                              > > My Pathetique picks (in order):
                              > >
                              > > Moravec
                              > > Richter(Melodiya)
                              > > Serkin(mono)
                              > > Serkin(stereo)
                              > > Annie Fischer
                              > > Gilels (DG)
                              > > Nat (EMI)
                              > > Kovacevich (EMI)
                              > > Gulda (Amadeo, Brilliant)
                              > > Backhaus (stereo)
                              > > Schnabel (Naxos)
                              > >
                              > > George
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com<beethovensonatas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > > "Richard Mathisen" <richard.mathisen@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > George, John, Dmitri,
                              > > >
                              > > > Moravec:
                              > > >
                              > > > I admit that I somehow overlooked the Moravec recording of Op 13 when I
                              > > compiled my preliminary list of favorites in July 2008. I have listened to
                              > > the Moravec recording recently. It seems like it should be at least in my
                              > > "Top 10." (I am currently listening to all my recordings of Op 13, some 89
                              > > of them, as part of my usual procedure.)
                              > > >
                              > > > Again, I do encourage you and others to post your own list(s) of favorite
                              > > recordings of Op 13 (the "Pathetique")!
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Richard Mathisen
                              George, Richter s studio recording of the Pathetique made June 4 1959 is by far the most widely known recording by him. There is a live recording made in April
                              Message 15 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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                                George,

                                Richter's studio recording of the Pathetique made June 4 1959 is by far the most widely known recording by him.

                                There is a live recording made in April 1958 on Parnassus PACD 96-005/6 ("Sviatoslav Richter in the 1950s" Volume 3) which is also listed in Trovar. I wouldn't go out of my way to obtain the 1958 recording unless you're as obsessive as I am. I think the 1959 studio recording is preferable.

                                When you specified "Melodiya" as your Richter favorite, I erroneously jumped to the conclusion that you must be referring to the rare 1958 live recording rather than the standard 1959 studio recording. That was my mistake!

                                For Annie Fischer, I think the Hungaraton recording (from the box set) is much better than the earlier EMI recording. See what you think!

                                Are you familiar with the live Backhaus recording from a March 1954 Carnegie Hall recital? It was published in "Wilhelm Backhaus 1" in the "Great Pianists of the 20th Century Series," although I had also heard it on the original LP's. I think the Carnegie Hall recording is a little better than his stereo version that you mentioned in your list, but I don't know whether you'd agree.

                                There's also an astonishing Kempff recording of the Pathetique from 1936, which is much different from and much better (in my opinion) than either the mono or stereo versions. I obtained it on a bonus disk with my mono set from DGG.

                                Dick Mathisen

                                --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com, "George" <gperkins151@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I only have the 1959 performance by Richter and wasn't aware that there is another one. Can you tell me more about it?
                                >
                                > For Annie Fischer, yes I mean the Hungaroton. I should compare the EMI, though as I got it recently.
                                >
                                > I think I have Edwin Fischer's Pathetique, but haven't got to it yet. Will let you know about this and Annie's EMI recording.
                                >
                                > George
                                >
                                > --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com, Richard A Mathisen <richard.a.mathisen@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > George,
                                > >
                                > > Thank you very much! I always look forward to seeing your choices, partly
                                > > because I always learn from them.
                                > >
                                > > When you specify "Richter (Melodiya)," I assume you are referring
                                > > to Richter's live performance from 1958 rather than the studio recording
                                > > from 1959. Is that correct? If so, could you say a few words about why you
                                > > prefer one over the other? (I'm not arguing with you, I'm just curious!)
                                > >
                                > > When you mention Annie Fischer, I'm sure you mean the standard recording
                                > > from the box set, not the much earlier EMI studio recording.
                                > >
                                > > Have you encountered any of the Edwin Fischer recordings of the Pathetique?
                                > >
                                > > Thanks again for your list! Sorry about the questions, but I just like to
                                > > pick your brain!
                                > >
                                > > Dick Mathisen
                                > >
                                > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 7:03 AM, George <gperkins151@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Hi Dick.
                                > > >
                                > > > My Pathetique picks (in order):
                                > > >
                                > > > Moravec
                                > > > Richter(Melodiya)
                                > > > Serkin(mono)
                                > > > Serkin(stereo)
                                > > > Annie Fischer
                                > > > Gilels (DG)
                                > > > Nat (EMI)
                                > > > Kovacevich (EMI)
                                > > > Gulda (Amadeo, Brilliant)
                                > > > Backhaus (stereo)
                                > > > Schnabel (Naxos)
                                > > >
                                > > > George
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In beethovensonatas@yahoogroups.com<beethovensonatas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > > > "Richard Mathisen" <richard.mathisen@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > George, John, Dmitri,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Moravec:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I admit that I somehow overlooked the Moravec recording of Op 13 when I
                                > > > compiled my preliminary list of favorites in July 2008. I have listened to
                                > > > the Moravec recording recently. It seems like it should be at least in my
                                > > > "Top 10." (I am currently listening to all my recordings of Op 13, some 89
                                > > > of them, as part of my usual procedure.)
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Again, I do encourage you and others to post your own list(s) of favorite
                                > > > recordings of Op 13 (the "Pathetique")!
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Richard A Mathisen
                                John Duffy, I m not familiar with Artur Pizarra or his recording of the Pathetique. If you wish to supply me with a copy I d be willing to consider it. I ve
                                Message 16 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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                                  John Duffy,
                                   
                                  I'm not familiar with Artur Pizarra or his recording of the Pathetique. If you wish to supply me with a copy I'd be willing to consider it. I've sent you my home address by separate note.
                                   
                                  Dick Mathisen

                                  On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:36 PM, John Duffy <johnduffy@...> wrote:
                                  Dear Mr. Mathisen,
                                  Has Artur Pizarro's recording for Linn
                                  been considered and / or eliminated ?
                                  john Duffy


                                  I join in the strongest possible vote for Moravec,
                                  and am unable to understand his apparent
                                  elimination from the 15 versions listed.
                                   D.Manildi

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