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Fwd: seed treatments with neonicitinoids and "guttation" drops...relevant to foraging bees?

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  • Cane, Jim
    Folks- the discussion below suggests to me that guttation drops may very well contain lethal amounts of Imidachloprid for bees, but it may not be responsible
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 3, 2009
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      Folks- the discussion below suggests to me that guttation drops may very
      well contain lethal amounts of
      Imidachloprid for bees, but it may not be responsible for killing bees.
      When do bees ever drink dew drops? Aristotle thought it, as I vaguely
      recollect, dew being the liquid he thought that bees carry around. Now
      a systemic _might_ reach honeybees and wasps that collect honeydew from
      aphids who are excreting phloem saps that contain a systemic, I suppose,
      but that is another study.

      Jim c

      ---------- Forwarded message ----------
      From: Webster, Thomas <thomas.webster@...>
      Date: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 4:14 PM
      Subject: FW: seed treatments with neonicitinoids
      To: Keith Delaplane <delaplane@...>


      Keith,
      Some comments from Univ Kentucky are below, re the paper you sent
      recently. It is not obvious to me that this is a source of pesticide
      poisoning for bees, but if "all plants have guttation", this might be
      significant during a drought when bees are searching for water and
      nectar.
      Tom

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Strang, John [mailto:jstrang@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:49 AM
      To: Webster, Thomas
      Subject: RE: seed treatments with neonicitinoids

      Tom,

      Just about all plants have guttation and dew drops in the early morning.

      In the Ecotoxicology paper the guttation drops were collected from the
      corn and fed to the bees. To put this in perspective, I don't expect
      that bees preferentially visit corn to collect water droplets as opposed
      to all the surrounding trees grasses and weeds. I can't remember ever
      seeing honeybees in young corn. Additionally, our vegetable spray guide
      does not see have any neonicitinoid insecticides listed to treat sweet
      corn seed.

      Hopefully this helps.

      John

      ---
      John Strang
      Dept. of Horticulture
      N-318 Ag. Sci. Bldg. North
      University of Kentucky
      Lexington, KY 40546-0091
      Phone: (859)257-5685
      Fax:(859)257-2859
      Email: jstrang@...

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Webster, Thomas [mailto:thomas.webster@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:15 AM
      To: Strang, John
      Subject: FW: seed treatments with neonicitinoids

      Hi John,
      I wonder if you know about this "guttation" in young corn plants (less
      than 3 weeks old). See the attached article. Is this commonly seen on
      Kentucky corn?
      Tom

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Bessin, Ricardo [mailto:rbessin@...]
      Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 7:55 PM
      To: Webster, Thomas
      Subject: RE: seed treatments with neonicitinoids

      Tom,
      I don't about soybeans, but 100%of the field corn seed is treated with
      one of the neonicotinoid seed treatments. While it has been documented
      that bees can imbibe gutation drops,how regularly does this occur? I've
      never witnessed this but have spent significant time in corn fields
      before and after the advent of these seed treatments.
      Ric
      ________________________________________
      From: Webster, Thomas [thomas.webster@...]
      Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 2:55 PM
      To: Bessin, Ricardo
      Subject: seed treatments with neonicitinoids

      Hi Ric,

      I've been running across some articles on neonicitinoid seed treatments
      for crops such as corn and soybeans which are grown extensively in this
      state. (See attached article as an example.) Can you tell me how much
      of the seed in Kentucky is treated this way? There is quite a bit of
      controversy on the extent to which bee colony losses which can be
      attributed to such treatment.
      Thanks!

      Tom Webster

      Apiculture Research and Extension Specialist Land Grant Program Atwood
      Research Facility Kentucky State University
      Frankfort KY 40601
      phone 502-597-6351




      --
      Keith S. Delaplane
      Professor and Walter B. Hill Fellow
      University of Georgia
      http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees
    • Dave Green
      I always assumed the bees were collecting dew, so this has been important news to me. Also when farmers are cutting greenchop to feed cows in mid-summer, when
      Message 2 of 2 , Nov 4, 2009
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        I always assumed the bees were collecting dew, so this has been important news to me.
         
        Also when farmers are cutting greenchop to feed cows in mid-summer, when pastures get poor, bees will come to the stubble to get sap at the cut. The cut dries and seals itself in a couple days, but new cuts are made daily.
         
        Dave
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Cane, Jim
        Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 6:42 PM
        Subject: [beemonitoring] Fwd: seed treatments with neonicitinoids and "guttation" drops...relevant to foraging bees?

         

        Folks- the discussion below suggests to me that guttation drops may very
        well contain lethal amounts of
        Imidachloprid for bees, but it may not be responsible for killing bees.
        When do bees ever drink dew drops? Aristotle thought it, as I vaguely
        recollect, dew being the liquid he thought that bees carry around. Now
        a systemic _might_ reach honeybees and wasps that collect honeydew from
        aphids who are excreting phloem saps that contain a systemic, I suppose,
        but that is another study.

        Jim c

        ---------- Forwarded message ----------
        From: Webster, Thomas <thomas.webster@ kysu.edu>
        Date: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 4:14 PM
        Subject: FW: seed treatments with neonicitinoids
        To: Keith Delaplane <delaplane@gmail. com>

        Keith,
        Some comments from Univ Kentucky are below, re the paper you sent
        recently. It is not obvious to me that this is a source of pesticide
        poisoning for bees, but if "all plants have guttation", this might be
        significant during a drought when bees are searching for water and
        nectar.
        Tom

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Strang, John [mailto:jstrang@uky. edu]
        Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:49 AM
        To: Webster, Thomas
        Subject: RE: seed treatments with neonicitinoids

        Tom,

        Just about all plants have guttation and dew drops in the early morning.

        In the Ecotoxicology paper the guttation drops were collected from the
        corn and fed to the bees. To put this in perspective, I don't expect
        that bees preferentially visit corn to collect water droplets as opposed
        to all the surrounding trees grasses and weeds. I can't remember ever
        seeing honeybees in young corn. Additionally, our vegetable spray guide
        does not see have any neonicitinoid insecticides listed to treat sweet
        corn seed.

        Hopefully this helps.

        John

        ---
        John Strang
        Dept. of Horticulture
        N-318 Ag. Sci. Bldg. North
        University of Kentucky
        Lexington, KY 40546-0091
        Phone: (859)257-5685
        Fax:(859)257- 2859
        Email: jstrang@uky. edu

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Webster, Thomas [mailto:thomas.webster@ kysu.edu]
        Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:15 AM
        To: Strang, John
        Subject: FW: seed treatments with neonicitinoids

        Hi John,
        I wonder if you know about this "guttation" in young corn plants (less
        than 3 weeks old). See the attached article. Is this commonly seen on
        Kentucky corn?
        Tom

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Bessin, Ricardo [mailto:rbessin@email. uky.edu]
        Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 7:55 PM
        To: Webster, Thomas
        Subject: RE: seed treatments with neonicitinoids

        Tom,
        I don't about soybeans, but 100%of the field corn seed is treated with
        one of the neonicotinoid seed treatments. While it has been documented
        that bees can imbibe gutation drops,how regularly does this occur? I've
        never witnessed this but have spent significant time in corn fields
        before and after the advent of these seed treatments.
        Ric
        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _
        From: Webster, Thomas [thomas.webster@ kysu.edu]
        Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 2:55 PM
        To: Bessin, Ricardo
        Subject: seed treatments with neonicitinoids

        Hi Ric,

        I've been running across some articles on neonicitinoid seed treatments
        for crops such as corn and soybeans which are grown extensively in this
        state. (See attached article as an example.) Can you tell me how much
        of the seed in Kentucky is treated this way? There is quite a bit of
        controversy on the extent to which bee colony losses which can be
        attributed to such treatment.
        Thanks!

        Tom Webster

        Apiculture Research and Extension Specialist Land Grant Program Atwood
        Research Facility Kentucky State University
        Frankfort KY 40601
        phone 502-597-6351

        --
        Keith S. Delaplane
        Professor and Walter B. Hill Fellow
        University of Georgia
        http://www.ent. uga.edu/bees

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