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Is Chelostoma philadelpi an introduced species?

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  • Sam Droege
    Jim: I like your thinking.... How about this: I found Robertson s article on Heterotropic Bees (Ecology 6: 412-436) in which he states under a paragraph
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 24, 2008
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      Jim:

      I like your thinking.... How about this:

      I found Robertson's article on Heterotropic Bees (Ecology 6: 412-436) in which he states under a paragraph entitled "Near Oligoleges":

      "Prochelstoma philadelphi collects in abundance, but not exclusively, pollen of Philadelphus grandiflorus, a cultivated plant.  If the bee has an important relation to this plant, it must have been introduced with it.  "

      So Robertson implies it may be an introduced species, but as far as I can tell no one has since then.

      In Sedivy et al.'s new paper, they couldn't determine if the pollen was from Philadelphus when they examined 21 pollen loads from museum specimens from 11 localities, but they were all in the Hydrangeaceae group.  In the eastern U.S. members of the Hydrangeaceae group are either absent or extremely rare, particularly in the north.  So one must suspect that the pollen comes from the introduced Mock Orange.

      Interestingly in both phylogenetic and morphometric analyses C. philadelphi is very closely related to C. lamellum which lives in China and is also likely an oligoleg on Philadelphus!  Both these species are quite distant from other species of Chelostoma.

      Given the habit of nesting in small holes in wood and the inadvertent introduction of 2 other Chelostoma species into North America, I am willing to bet that Robertson's supposition was right and that C. philadelphi is actually an introduced species.

      sam

      Sam Droege  sdroege@...                      
      w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
      USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
      BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD  20705
      Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov


      Nature makes the locust with an appetite for crops; man
      would have made him with an appetite for sand- I mean
      a man with the least little bit of common sense.
       - Mark Twain



      P Please don't print this e-mail unless really needed.


      "Cane, Jim" <Jim.Cane@...>
      Sent by: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com

      09/24/2008 12:41 PM

      Please respond to
      beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com

      To
      <beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com>
      cc
      Subject
      RE: [beemonitoring] Chelostoma philadelpi and the plant genus Philadelphus





      Sam- yes, that’s a useful observation about Chelostoma philadelphi not making it west in the US where native likely floral hosts occur.  Possibly it is because that floral host is not used ornamentally much, so that chances for nest transport are not likely to plop the bee down where it’s host plant occurs (e.g. cities, towns, farms).  Indeed, most of our native cavity-nesters do not seem to have been broadly moved out of their native ranges by inadvertent human transport…can you think of any?  And then there is Megachile rotundata which spanned the continent in a decade or two (we think) without intentional help.  Interesting to mull on.

       

      jim

       

      ===============================

      James H. Cane

      USDA-ARS Bee Biology and Systematics Lab

      Utah State University, Logan, UT 84322 USA

      tel: 435-797-3879   FAX: 435-797-0461

      email: Jim.Cane@...  

      web page: www.ars.usda.gov/npa/beelab

       

      "Embrace entropy"

       


    • Jack Neff
      Sam: Your speculation that Chelostoma philadelphi is introduced is intriguing. However, China -Eastern North America is a classic pattern for Miocene plant
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 24, 2008
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        Sam: Your speculation that Chelostoma philadelphi is introduced is intriguing. However, China -Eastern North America is a classic pattern for Miocene plant (and other organismal) disjunctions. Chelostoma is a the base of the Osmiini (Praz et al, 2008, Molec. Phylog. Evol 49: 185-197) so presumably is old enough. C. philadelphi could be what was once a somewhat geographically restricted relict of a Miocene disjunction which greatly expanded its range with the widespread planting of an appropriate host plant (introduced mock orange). Many other bees have recently expanded their ranges with horticultural or weedy range expansions of their host plants.

        best

        Jack

        John L. Neff
        Central Texas Melittological Institute
        7307 Running Rope
        Austin,TX 78731 USA
        512-345-7219
      • Sam Droege
        Jack: That sounds resonable, but wouldn t you expect there to be several species in that subgenus in North America, not just one? Particularly since the split
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 24, 2008
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          Jack:

          That sounds resonable, but wouldn't you expect there to be several species in that subgenus in North America, not just one?  Particularly since the split would have occurred long ago?  Also since most of the Philadelphus species are western, one would suppose the subgenus would be in a number of places in the West (or maybe we need to do more collecting off of Philadelphus in the West!), particularly since at least one species of Philadelphus appears to be common there..

          But then on the other hand, why hasen't anyone found C. philadelphi in China if that's where it originated or in Southern Europe where apparently the Mock Orange that is most often used as an ornamental originated from?

          I think a world-wide collecting trip of Mock Oranges is in order here!

          sam

          Sam Droege  sdroege@...                      
          w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
          USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
          BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD  20705
          Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov


          To the Fringed Gentian

          Thou blossom bright with autumn dew,
          And colored with the heaven's own blue,
          that openest when the quiet light
          Succeeds the keen and frosty night -


          Thou comest not when violets lean
          O'er wandering brooks and springs unseen,
          Or columbines, in purple dressed,
          Nod o'er the ground-bird's hidden nest.


          Thou waitest late and com'st alone,
          When woods are bare and birds are flown,
          and frosts and shortening days portend
          The aged year is near his end.


          Then doth thy sweet and quiet eye
          Look through its fringes to the sky,
          Blue-blue-as if that sky let fall
          A flower from its cerulean wall.


          I would that thus, when I shall see
          the hour of death draw near to me,
          Hope, blossoming within my heart,
          May look to heaven as I depart.
               -William Cullen Bryant


          P Please don't print this e-mail unless really needed.


          Jack Neff <jlnatctmi@...>
          Sent by: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com

          09/24/2008 02:14 PM

          Please respond to
          beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com

          To
          beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
          cc
          Subject
          Re: [beemonitoring] Is Chelostoma philadelpi an introduced species?





          Sam: Your speculation that Chelostoma philadelphi is introduced is intriguing. However, China -Eastern North America is a classic pattern for Miocene plant (and other organismal) disjunctions. Chelostoma is a the base of the Osmiini (Praz et al, 2008, Molec. Phylog. Evol 49: 185-197) so presumably is old enough. C. philadelphi could be what was once a somewhat geographically restricted relict of a Miocene disjunction which greatly expanded its range with the widespread planting of an appropriate host plant (introduced mock orange). Many other bees have recently expanded their ranges with horticultural or weedy range expansions of their host plants.

          best

          Jack

          John L. Neff
          Central Texas Melittological Institute
          7307 Running Rope
          Austin,TX 78731 USA
          512-345-7219


        • Jack Neff
          Sam: Failure to speciate (or extinction rate = speciation rate) is reasonable for relicts. Also, in E. Asia - North American disjuncts, multiple
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 24, 2008
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            Sam: Failure to speciate (or extinction rate = speciation rate) is reasonable for relicts. Also, in E. Asia - North American disjuncts, multiple introductions are common and it is not unusual to find that the eastern and western American taxa are not closely related and each group may be more closely related to an OW clade. It would be interesting to see a phylogeny of Philedelphus. Also, putting a clock on the Chelostoma phylogeny might shed some light.

            Jack

            John L. Neff
            Central Texas Melittological Institute
            7307 Running Rope
            Austin,TX 78731 USA
            512-345-7219


            --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Sam Droege <sdroege@...> wrote:

            > From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
            > Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Is Chelostoma philadelpi an introduced species?
            > To: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
            > Cc: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 4:00 PM
            > Jack:
            >
            > That sounds resonable, but wouldn't you expect there to
            > be several species
            > in that subgenus in North America, not just one?
            > Particularly since the
            > split would have occurred long ago? Also since most of the
            > Philadelphus
            > species are western, one would suppose the subgenus would
            > be in a number
            > of places in the West (or maybe we need to do more
            > collecting off of
            > Philadelphus in the West!), particularly since at least one
            > species of
            > Philadelphus appears to be common there..
            >
            > But then on the other hand, why hasen't anyone found C.
            > philadelphi in
            > China if that's where it originated or in Southern
            > Europe where apparently
            > the Mock Orange that is most often used as an ornamental
            > originated from?
            >
            > I think a world-wide collecting trip of Mock Oranges is in
            > order here!
            >
            > sam
            >
            > Sam Droege sdroege@...
            > w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
            > USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
            > BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville,
            > MD 20705
            > Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov
            >
            > To the Fringed Gentian
            >
            > Thou blossom bright with autumn dew,
            > And colored with the heaven's own blue,
            > that openest when the quiet light
            > Succeeds the keen and frosty night -
            >
            > Thou comest not when violets lean
            > O'er wandering brooks and springs unseen,
            > Or columbines, in purple dressed,
            > Nod o'er the ground-bird's hidden nest.
            >
            > Thou waitest late and com'st alone,
            > When woods are bare and birds are flown,
            > and frosts and shortening days portend
            > The aged year is near his end.
            >
            > Then doth thy sweet and quiet eye
            > Look through its fringes to the sky,
            > Blue-blue-as if that sky let fall
            > A flower from its cerulean wall.
            >
            > I would that thus, when I shall see
            > the hour of death draw near to me,
            > Hope, blossoming within my heart,
            > May look to heaven as I depart.
            > -William Cullen Bryant
            >
            > P Please don't print this e-mail unless really needed.
            >
            >
            >
            > Jack Neff <jlnatctmi@...>
            > Sent by: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
            > 09/24/2008 02:14 PM
            > Please respond to
            > beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            > To
            > beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
            > cc
            >
            > Subject
            > Re: [beemonitoring] Is Chelostoma philadelpi an introduced
            > species?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Sam: Your speculation that Chelostoma philadelphi is
            > introduced is
            > intriguing. However, China -Eastern North America is a
            > classic pattern for
            > Miocene plant (and other organismal) disjunctions.
            > Chelostoma is a the
            > base of the Osmiini (Praz et al, 2008, Molec. Phylog. Evol
            > 49: 185-197) so
            > presumably is old enough. C. philadelphi could be what was
            > once a somewhat
            > geographically restricted relict of a Miocene disjunction
            > which greatly
            > expanded its range with the widespread planting of an
            > appropriate host
            > plant (introduced mock orange). Many other bees have
            > recently expanded
            > their ranges with horticultural or weedy range expansions
            > of their host
            > plants.
            >
            > best
            >
            > Jack
            >
            > John L. Neff
            > Central Texas Melittological Institute
            > 7307 Running Rope
            > Austin,TX 78731 USA
            > 512-345-7219
          • Sam Droege
            Jack: You have me convinced. I am swinging back to it not be an introduced species,,,meerly a very intriguing one that (as usual) would very interesting to
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 24, 2008
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              Jack:

              You have me convinced.  I am swinging back to it not be an introduced species,,,meerly a very intriguing one that (as usual) would very interesting to look into further.

              Thanks for the insights.

              sam

              Sam Droege  sdroege@...                      
              w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
              USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
              BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD  20705
              Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov


              The Plover and the Clover can be told
                  apart with ease,
              By paying close attention to the
                  habits of the Bees,
              For ento-molo-gists aver, the Bee
                  can be in clover,
              While ety-molo-gists concur, there
                  is no B in Plover.
                 -Robert Williams Wood - The Clover and the Plover


              P Please don't print this e-mail unless really needed.


              Jack Neff <jlnatctmi@...>
              Sent by: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com

              09/24/2008 05:26 PM

              Please respond to
              beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com

              To
              beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
              cc
              Subject
              Re: [beemonitoring] Is Chelostoma philadelpi an introduced species?





              Sam: Failure to speciate (or extinction rate = speciation rate) is reasonable for relicts. Also, in E. Asia - North American disjuncts, multiple introductions are common and it is not unusual to find that the eastern and western American taxa are not closely related and each group may be more closely related to an OW clade. It would be interesting to see a phylogeny of Philedelphus. Also, putting a clock on the Chelostoma phylogeny might shed some light.

              Jack

              John L. Neff
              Central Texas Melittological Institute
              7307 Running Rope
              Austin,TX 78731 USA
              512-345-7219

              --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Sam Droege <
              sdroege@...> wrote:

              > From: Sam Droege <
              sdroege@...>
              > Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Is Chelostoma philadelpi an introduced species?
              > To:
              beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
              > Cc:
              beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 4:00 PM
              > Jack:
              >
              > That sounds resonable, but wouldn't you expect there to
              > be several species
              > in that subgenus in North America, not just one?
              > Particularly since the
              > split would have occurred long ago? Also since most of the
              > Philadelphus
              > species are western, one would suppose the subgenus would
              > be in a number
              > of places in the West (or maybe we need to do more
              > collecting off of
              > Philadelphus in the West!), particularly since at least one
              > species of
              > Philadelphus appears to be common there..
              >
              > But then on the other hand, why hasen't anyone found C.
              > philadelphi in
              > China if that's where it originated or in Southern
              > Europe where apparently
              > the Mock Orange that is most often used as an ornamental
              > originated from?
              >
              > I think a world-wide collecting trip of Mock Oranges is in
              > order here!
              >
              > sam
              >
              > Sam Droege
              sdroege@...
              > w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
              > USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
              > BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville,
              > MD 20705
              >
              Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov
              >
              > To the Fringed Gentian
              >
              > Thou blossom bright with autumn dew,
              > And colored with the heaven's own blue,
              > that openest when the quiet light
              > Succeeds the keen and frosty night -
              >
              > Thou comest not when violets lean
              > O'er wandering brooks and springs unseen,
              > Or columbines, in purple dressed,
              > Nod o'er the ground-bird's hidden nest.
              >
              > Thou waitest late and com'st alone,
              > When woods are bare and birds are flown,
              > and frosts and shortening days portend
              > The aged year is near his end.
              >
              > Then doth thy sweet and quiet eye
              > Look through its fringes to the sky,
              > Blue-blue-as if that sky let fall
              > A flower from its cerulean wall.
              >
              > I would that thus, when I shall see
              > the hour of death draw near to me,
              > Hope, blossoming within my heart,
              > May look to heaven as I depart.
              > -William Cullen Bryant
              >
              > P Please don't print this e-mail unless really needed.
              >
              >
              >
              > Jack Neff <
              jlnatctmi@...>
              > Sent by:
              beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
              > 09/24/2008 02:14 PM
              > Please respond to
              >
              beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              > To
              >
              beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
              > cc
              >
              > Subject
              > Re: [beemonitoring] Is Chelostoma philadelpi an introduced
              > species?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Sam: Your speculation that Chelostoma philadelphi is
              > introduced is
              > intriguing. However, China -Eastern North America is a
              > classic pattern for
              > Miocene plant (and other organismal) disjunctions.
              > Chelostoma is a the
              > base of the Osmiini (Praz et al, 2008, Molec. Phylog. Evol
              > 49: 185-197) so
              > presumably is old enough. C. philadelphi could be what was
              > once a somewhat
              > geographically restricted relict of a Miocene disjunction
              > which greatly
              > expanded its range with the widespread planting of an
              > appropriate host
              > plant (introduced mock orange). Many other bees have
              > recently expanded
              > their ranges with horticultural or weedy range expansions
              > of their host
              > plants.
              >
              > best
              >
              > Jack
              >
              > John L. Neff
              > Central Texas Melittological Institute
              > 7307 Running Rope
              > Austin,TX 78731 USA
              > 512-345-7219


            • John S. Ascher
              Sam and Jack: The diagnostic features of Chelostoma lamellum is illustrated in Wu s recent book on Chinese Megachilidae along with another related species, C.
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 24, 2008
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                Sam and Jack:

                The diagnostic features of Chelostoma lamellum is illustrated in Wu's
                recent book on Chinese Megachilidae along with another related species, C.
                sublamellum. At present these are placed in subgenus Ceraheriades which
                now includes five species. Thus C. lamellum is not even consubgeneric with
                C. philadelphi and is clearly specifically distinct from C. philadelphi.

                Macropis is a good example of a bee genus with centers of diversity in the
                eastern USA and China.

                Many bee genera have failed to speciate in the eastern USA and are absent
                from much of the western USA, including most or all of the Rocky
                Mountains, such as Augochlora, Melitoma, and Ptilothrix.

                I've collected C. philadelphi primarily from planted mock orange, e.g., on
                the Cornell U. campus. I agree with Jack's suggestion that it has greatly
                expanded its range due to widespread planting of its host.

                If anyone has Chelostoma specimens with pollen affixed I suggest that they
                send these to Andreas Mueller so that he can identify the pollen source.

                "I think a world-wide collecting trip of Mock Oranges is in
                >> order here!"

                I doubt that we have overlooked Prochelostoma species.

                John


                > Jack:
                >
                > You have me convinced. I am swinging back to it not be an introduced
                > species,,,meerly a very intriguing one that (as usual) would very
                > interesting to look into further.
                >
                > Thanks for the insights.
                >
                > sam
                >
                > Sam Droege sdroege@...
                > w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
                > USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
                > BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705
                > Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov
                >
                > The Plover and the Clover can be told
                > apart with ease,
                > By paying close attention to the
                > habits of the Bees,
                > For ento-molo-gists aver, the Bee
                > can be in clover,
                > While ety-molo-gists concur, there
                > is no B in Plover.
                > -Robert Williams Wood - The Clover and the Plover
                >
                > P Please don't print this e-mail unless really needed.
                >
                >
                >
                > Jack Neff <jlnatctmi@...>
                > Sent by: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                > 09/24/2008 05:26 PM
                > Please respond to
                > beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                > To
                > beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                > cc
                >
                > Subject
                > Re: [beemonitoring] Is Chelostoma philadelpi an introduced species?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Sam: Failure to speciate (or extinction rate = speciation rate) is
                > reasonable for relicts. Also, in E. Asia - North American disjuncts,
                > multiple introductions are common and it is not unusual to find that the
                > eastern and western American taxa are not closely related and each group
                > may be more closely related to an OW clade. It would be interesting to see
                > a phylogeny of Philedelphus. Also, putting a clock on the Chelostoma
                > phylogeny might shed some light.
                >
                > Jack
                >
                > John L. Neff
                > Central Texas Melittological Institute
                > 7307 Running Rope
                > Austin,TX 78731 USA
                > 512-345-7219
                >
                > --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Sam Droege <sdroege@...> wrote:
                >
                >> From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
                >> Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Is Chelostoma philadelpi an introduced
                > species?
                >> To: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                >> Cc: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                >> Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 4:00 PM
                >> Jack:
                >>
                >> That sounds resonable, but wouldn't you expect there to
                >> be several species
                >> in that subgenus in North America, not just one?
                >> Particularly since the
                >> split would have occurred long ago? Also since most of the
                >> Philadelphus
                >> species are western, one would suppose the subgenus would
                >> be in a number
                >> of places in the West (or maybe we need to do more
                >> collecting off of
                >> Philadelphus in the West!), particularly since at least one
                >> species of
                >> Philadelphus appears to be common there..
                >>
                >> But then on the other hand, why hasen't anyone found C.
                >> philadelphi in
                >> China if that's where it originated or in Southern
                >> Europe where apparently
                >> the Mock Orange that is most often used as an ornamental
                >> originated from?
                >>
                >> I think a world-wide collecting trip of Mock Oranges is in
                >> order here!
                >>
                >> sam
                >>
                >> Sam Droege sdroege@...
                >> w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
                >> USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
                >> BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville,
                >> MD 20705
                >> Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov
                >>
                >> To the Fringed Gentian
                >>
                >> Thou blossom bright with autumn dew,
                >> And colored with the heaven's own blue,
                >> that openest when the quiet light
                >> Succeeds the keen and frosty night -
                >>
                >> Thou comest not when violets lean
                >> O'er wandering brooks and springs unseen,
                >> Or columbines, in purple dressed,
                >> Nod o'er the ground-bird's hidden nest.
                >>
                >> Thou waitest late and com'st alone,
                >> When woods are bare and birds are flown,
                >> and frosts and shortening days portend
                >> The aged year is near his end.
                >>
                >> Then doth thy sweet and quiet eye
                >> Look through its fringes to the sky,
                >> Blue-blue-as if that sky let fall
                >> A flower from its cerulean wall.
                >>
                >> I would that thus, when I shall see
                >> the hour of death draw near to me,
                >> Hope, blossoming within my heart,
                >> May look to heaven as I depart.
                >> -William Cullen Bryant
                >>
                >> P Please don't print this e-mail unless really needed.
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Jack Neff <jlnatctmi@...>
                >> Sent by: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                >> 09/24/2008 02:14 PM
                >> Please respond to
                >> beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                >>
                >>
                >> To
                >> beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                >> cc
                >>
                >> Subject
                >> Re: [beemonitoring] Is Chelostoma philadelpi an introduced
                >> species?
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Sam: Your speculation that Chelostoma philadelphi is
                >> introduced is
                >> intriguing. However, China -Eastern North America is a
                >> classic pattern for
                >> Miocene plant (and other organismal) disjunctions.
                >> Chelostoma is a the
                >> base of the Osmiini (Praz et al, 2008, Molec. Phylog. Evol
                >> 49: 185-197) so
                >> presumably is old enough. C. philadelphi could be what was
                >> once a somewhat
                >> geographically restricted relict of a Miocene disjunction
                >> which greatly
                >> expanded its range with the widespread planting of an
                >> appropriate host
                >> plant (introduced mock orange). Many other bees have
                >> recently expanded
                >> their ranges with horticultural or weedy range expansions
                >> of their host
                >> plants.
                >>
                >> best
                >>
                >> Jack
                >>
                >> John L. Neff
                >> Central Texas Melittological Institute
                >> 7307 Running Rope
                >> Austin,TX 78731 USA
                >> 512-345-7219
                >
                >
                >


                --
                John S. Ascher, Ph.D.
                Bee Database Project Manager
                Division of Invertebrate Zoology
                American Museum of Natural History
                Central Park West @ 79th St.
                New York, NY 10024-5192
                work phone: 212-496-3447
                mobile phone: 917-407-0378
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