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Fw: [beemonitoring] Re: Carpenter bees and giant asian resin bees as my neighbors.

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  • Charles Guevara
    ... From: Charles Guevara To: Liz Day Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [beemonitoring]
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 31, 2013
    • 0 Attachment

      ----- Forwarded Message -----
      From: Charles Guevara <icecilliate123@...>
      To: Liz Day <lizday44@...>
      Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 10:55 PM
      Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Re: Carpenter bees and giant asian resin bees as my neighbors.

         Hi, Liz, and thanks always for your comments.  Our  US/CDC is the source of the language: 'West Nile Virus now endemic to con-US states'.  Perhaps these population epidemiologists were being practicle/ as engineers often are with 'sludge-values and coefficients' ...perhaps a very evidenced-based and practicle community assesment is: 'if it is stabily here to stay..it is endemic'?  Vrs any sense of 'where an organism evolved'.  Thanks to our 'new normal' of globalized impacts on our dear biomes...I suggest you forget about criteria of: 'endemic applies to where an organism evolved'.  Totally my thoughts with no literature to cite.
       
         Are you suggesting to me that the mustang horse, the turkey bird, the strains of corn plants, the cotton plant , the potatoe...etc., etc., are not now endemic species in con-US?  This is great issue for this bee/pollinator forum...as so many 'stake holders in our systems food chain' wish to import species/ manipulate genes in species...and not be bothered with the concepts of: 'native ecotypes vrs introduced organisms, vrs impacts of altered genotypes inserted into a 'native ecosystem'.  It gets quite blurry, very quickly for me.
       
         I am a big fan of: 'wild pepermint' plant...this plant is so redolant to my senses, it does so well in running water environments, and the variety of bees and other pollinators which brush shoulders in their visits to wild pepermint flowers...makes this plant a pleasure for me to have as neighbor.  My 1975 " Fieldbook of Natural History" 2nd edition/palmer,fowler notes: "Native of Europe. Widely naturalized in America where it grows in relatively thick stands in water soaked or well watered ground.".
       
         I gently suggest, Liz, that we cosmopolitain commerce /globalized species..have come to terms with organisms as being: 'widely naturalized here in America' ( the 1975 authors second edition comments of practicle evidenced-based ecology)...as well as  a species of virus now being designated:'endemic in con-US'.   I really ask if this 'Giant Asian Resin Bee' is now deemed : stable/endemic in it's locations ( as opposed to the past news storyof)).   'interloper huge moose which trotted down to the lower-48..only to shot dead by a worried homeowner'.  Is it too early, or is it simply rhetoric to label organisms as being: 'endemic vrs native', invasive species vrs introduced species'....our trans oceanic commerce may soon be dwarfted by impacts of 'novel genetic organisms' in our commerce...so meekly I ask: do we give this 'giant asian resin bee' a pass as cute and tender in it's attention to it's brood chambers'?  Is it: 'endemic to it's spreading range'?  Is it 'an introduced species"? Is it an 'invassive species?'.  I respectfully do not expect you to offer comments on any of my queries here...but when and if any have opinions/comments...I'd appreciate the thoughts.  all the best, charlie guevara

      From: Liz Day <lizday44@...>
      To: Charles Guevara <icecilliate123@...>
      Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:47 PM
      Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Re: Carpenter bees and giant asian resin bees as my neighbors.


      >this virus is now deemed: 'endemic to con-US' , rather than :
      >'invasive species'.  I wonder now...is Asian giant resin bee now
      >deemed: 'endemic', rather than: 'introduced species'...why did it
      >not be designated: 'invassive species'?  What charms permit a fellow
      >organism of our dear globe being designated: 'introduced
      >species'....vrs. : 'invassive species"?  The insect Emerald ash
      >borer/bark bettle is now deemed a contaigion in numerous NY
      >counties...just what
      do we consider the: giant Asian Resin Bee to be?

      Hi Charles,
      A species can never be endemic to a place it did not evolve in. I
      don't understand why West Nile virus would be called endemic to North
      America, since apparently it did not originate here.
      The only difference between an introduced species and an introduced
      invasive species is that the second term is reserved for those
      species that spread rapidly and cause problems.
      I hope this makes sense. Whether something is a problem can be
      debated in some cases. The giant resin bee has spread very quickly,
      but I am not well enough informed to know whether or not it is
      causing trouble in the environment. Generally the assumption is that
      something that spreads rapidly is also doing harm, but that might not
      always be the case.

      Liz





    • Leo Shapiro
      The term endemic has a different meaning in medicine/epidemiology than it does in biology/ecology. In epidemiology, a disease that is endemic to a
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 1, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        The term "endemic" has a different meaning in medicine/epidemiology than it does in biology/ecology. In epidemiology, a disease that is "endemic" to a particular region is one that is regularly found and self-sustaining there (e.g., malaria is endemic in the southern portion of country X, regardless of how it got there). This usage is more similar to to the nontechnical one than to the narrower usage in biology (e.g., when a journalist writes  that corruption or unemployment is endemic among a particular group in a particular place, she says nothing about its origin or where else it may be prevalent, only that it is established and widespread). In biology, an endemic taxon is one that is native to an area and not found naturally elsewhere. One might note that whether a particular taxon is endemic to a region (in the biologist's usage) may also depend on the time scale being considered (though usually we are talking about historical times and where the taxon was present before humans appeared on the scene).

        On Aug 31, 2013, at 10:58 PM, Charles Guevara <icecilliate123@...> wrote:

         


        ----- Forwarded Message -----
        From: Charles Guevara <icecilliate123@...>
        To: Liz Day <lizday44@...>
        Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 10:55 PM
        Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Re: Carpenter bees and giant asian resin bees as my neighbors.

           Hi, Liz, and thanks always for your comments.  Our  US/CDC is the source of the language: 'West Nile Virus now endemic to con-US states'.  Perhaps these population epidemiologists were being practicle/ as engineers often are with 'sludge-values and coefficients' ...perhaps a very evidenced-based and practicle community assesment is: 'if it is stabily here to stay..it is endemic'?  Vrs any sense of 'where an organism evolved'.  Thanks to our 'new normal' of globalized impacts on our dear biomes...I suggest you forget about criteria of: 'endemic applies to where an organism evolved'.  Totally my thoughts with no literature to cite.
         
           Are you suggesting to me that the mustang horse, the turkey bird, the strains of corn plants, the cotton plant , the potatoe...etc., etc., are not now endemic species in con-US?  This is great issue for this bee/pollinator forum...as so many 'stake holders in our systems food chain' wish to import species/ manipulate genes in species...and not be bothered with the concepts of: 'native ecotypes vrs introduced organisms, vrs impacts of altered genotypes inserted into a 'native ecosystem'.  It gets quite blurry, very quickly for me.
         
           I am a big fan of: 'wild pepermint' plant...this plant is so redolant to my senses, it does so well in running water environments, and the variety of bees and other pollinators which brush shoulders in their visits to wild pepermint flowers...makes this plant a pleasure for me to have as neighbor.  My 1975 " Fieldbook of Natural History" 2nd edition/palmer,fowler notes: "Native of Europe. Widely naturalized in America where it grows in relatively thick stands in water soaked or well watered ground.".
         
           I gently suggest, Liz, that we cosmopolitain commerce /globalized species..have come to terms with organisms as being: 'widely naturalized here in America' ( the 1975 authors second edition comments of practicle evidenced-based ecology)...as well as  a species of virus now being designated:'endemic in con-US'.   I really ask if this 'Giant Asian Resin Bee' is now deemed : stable/endemic in it's locations ( as opposed to the past news storyof)).   'interloper huge moose which trotted down to the lower-48..only to shot dead by a worried homeowner'.  Is it too early, or is it simply rhetoric to label organisms as being: 'endemic vrs native', invasive species vrs introduced species'....our trans oceanic commerce may soon be dwarfted by impacts of 'novel genetic organisms' in our commerce...so meekly I ask: do we give this 'giant asian resin bee' a pass as cute and tender in it's attention to it's brood chambers'?  Is it: 'endemic to it's spreading range'?  Is it 'an introduced species"? Is it an 'invassive species?'.  I respectfully do not expect you to offer comments on any of my queries here...but when and if any have opinions/comments...I'd appreciate the thoughts.  all the best, charlie guevara

        From: Liz Day <lizday44@...>
        To: Charles Guevara <icecilliate123@...>
        Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:47 PM
        Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Re: Carpenter bees and giant asian resin bees as my neighbors.


        >this virus is now deemed: 'endemic to con-US' , rather than :
        >'invasive species'.  I wonder now...is Asian giant resin bee now
        >deemed: 'endemic', rather than: 'introduced species'...why did it
        >not be designated: 'invassive species'?  What charms permit a fellow
        >organism of our dear globe being designated: 'introduced
        >species'....vrs. : 'invassive species"?  The insect Emerald ash
        >borer/bark bettle is now deemed a contaigion in numerous NY
        >counties...just what do we consider the: giant Asian Resin Bee to be?

        Hi Charles,
        A species can never be endemic to a place it did not evolve in. I
        don't understand why West Nile virus would be called endemic to North
        America, since apparently it did not originate here.
        The only difference between an introduced species and an introduced
        invasive species is that the second term is reserved for those
        species that spread rapidly and cause problems.
        I hope this makes sense. Whether something is a problem can be
        debated in some cases. The giant resin bee has spread very quickly,
        but I am not well enough informed to know whether or not it is
        causing trouble in the environment. Generally the assumption is that
        something that spreads rapidly is also doing harm, but that might not
        always be the case.

        Liz







      • Charles Guevara
           Thanks, so I guess the great natural migration of animals between the americas in ancient times would not preclude these numerous animals from being
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 2, 2013
        • 1 Attachment
        • 3.2 MB
           Thanks, so I guess the great natural migration of animals between the americas in 'ancient times' would not preclude these numerous animals from being designated: "endemic" to their expanded/new american range of distribution?  Biologically it is a fact, just as with the various hominids migrations which are understood via genomic data, fossil record, etc. , many organisms expanded their ranges, were isolatated to 'island populations' by climate changes, glaciation, land bridge subsidences, etc. , be it geographic isolation or abrupt reproductive isolation due hybrid incompatibilites to mate...yet we still designate these biologically as: 'endemic to their ranges of distribution'.  So in biology and ecology..organisms often ( after their often huge migrations and expansions of range of distribution) are designated as endemic to a local where they did not first evolve in, I think?  So native organisms are designated 'native' independant of place of evolved origin, I think?  Many huge population migrations and expansion of range occurred long before our human appearance in the americas, I think?
         
           So I wonder if 'length of time' operates more in what organisms are endemic to a specific local...than the frank term: 'only where that organism evolved'?  Natural huge migrations and population exchanges and expansions and shrinkage of ranges..can not alter where 'an organism first evolved'...but specific organisms 'endemic ranges' can indeed change with time..and endemic ranges of organism can be the only existing endemic populations of an organism...long after the 'place where an organism evolved' ceased to support that same organism..I think?
         
            The american early settlers to the americas introduced 'european flies' as north american indigenous tribes ruefully termed the imported honeybees.  So the progeny of these 'transported honey bees'..are still: 'introduced species', I think?
         
           All I ask is if ( in the continum between ubiquitous organisms,expanded ranges of organisms, shrining ranges of occurance, etc. .)...are giant asian resin bees on their way to being 'naturalized bees',on the continum to being stabile parts of their current range?  Their keeping carpenter bee tunnels vibrant and open for buisness seems only one habitat use they rely on for nesting...so I can patch up the tunnels before the tunnels get worse...and attract my neighbor woodpeckers.  A coworker of mine (here in central NY/fingerlakes region) claims to have a large population of these resin bees residing in her porch area...from the resin bee being a solitary bee...I intend to vist their home and see what is going on there!  Again, thanks for informing me about these neighbors of mine.  Does an entomologist use resin bee impacts on native bees as an issue to study, why would carpenter bees abandon tunnels to a resin bee, humm...and why do I tolerate the three or more species of woodpeckers which I feed at stations by our kitchen window?   all the best, thank you.  charlie guevara

        From: Leo Shapiro <leoshapiro99@...>
        To: Charles Guevara <icecilliate123@...>
        Cc: "beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com" <beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2013 9:39 AM
        Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Re: Carpenter bees and giant asian resin bees as my neighbors.



        The term "endemic" has a different meaning in medicine/epidemiology than it does in biology/ecology. In epidemiology, a disease that is "endemic" to a particular region is one that is regularly found and self-sustaining there (e.g., malaria is endemic in the southern portion of country X, regardless of how it got there). This usage is more similar to to the nontechnical one than to the narrower usage in biology (e.g., when a journalist writes  that corruption or unemployment is endemic among a particular group in a particular place, she says nothing about its origin or where else it may be prevalent, only that it is established and widespread). In biology, an endemic taxon is one that is native to an area and not found naturally elsewhere. One might note that whether a particular taxon is endemic to a region (in the biologist's usage) may also depend on the time scale being considered (though usually we are talking about historical times and where the taxon was present before humans appeared on the scene).

        On Aug 31, 2013, at 10:58 PM, Charles Guevara <icecilliate123@...> wrote:

         


        ----- Forwarded Message -----
        From: Charles Guevara <icecilliate123@...>
        To: Liz Day <lizday44@...>
        Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 10:55 PM
        Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Re: Carpenter bees and giant asian resin bees as my neighbors.

           Hi, Liz, and thanks always for your comments.  Our  US/CDC is the source of the language: 'West Nile Virus now endemic to con-US states'.  Perhaps these population epidemiologists were being practicle/ as engineers often are with 'sludge-values and coefficients' ...perhaps a very evidenced-based and practicle community assesment is: 'if it is stabily here to stay..it is endemic'?  Vrs any sense of 'where an organism evolved'.  Thanks to our 'new normal' of globalized impacts on our dear biomes...I suggest you forget about criteria of: 'endemic applies to where an organism evolved'.  Totally my thoughts with no literature to cite.
         
           Are you suggesting to me that the mustang horse, the turkey bird, the strains of corn plants, the cotton plant , the potatoe...etc., etc., are not now endemic species in con-US?  This is great issue for this bee/pollinator forum...as so many 'stake holders in our systems food chain' wish to import species/ manipulate genes in species...and not be bothered with the concepts of: 'native ecotypes vrs introduced organisms, vrs impacts of altered genotypes inserted into a 'native ecosystem'.  It gets quite blurry, very quickly for me.
         
           I am a big fan of: 'wild pepermint' plant...this plant is so redolant to my senses, it does so well in running water environments, and the variety of bees and other pollinators which brush shoulders in their visits to wild pepermint flowers...makes this plant a pleasure for me to have as neighbor.  My 1975 " Fieldbook of Natural History" 2nd edition/palmer,fowler notes: "Native of Europe. Widely naturalized in America where it grows in relatively thick stands in water soaked or well watered ground.".
         
           I gently suggest, Liz, that we cosmopolitain commerce /globalized species..have come to terms with organisms as being: 'widely naturalized here in America' ( the 1975 authors second edition comments of practicle evidenced-based ecology)...as well as  a species of virus now being designated:'endemic in con-US'.   I really ask if this 'Giant Asian Resin Bee' is now deemed : stable/endemic in it's locations ( as opposed to the past news storyof)).   'interloper huge moose which trotted down to the lower-48..only to shot dead by a worried homeowner'.  Is it too early, or is it simply rhetoric to label organisms as being: 'endemic vrs native', invasive species vrs introduced species'....our trans oceanic commerce may soon be dwarfted by impacts of 'novel genetic organisms' in our commerce...so meekly I ask: do we give this 'giant asian resin bee' a pass as cute and tender in it's attention to it's brood chambers'?  Is it: 'endemic to it's spreading range'?  Is it 'an introduced species"? Is it an 'invassive species?'.  I respectfully do not expect you to offer comments on any of my queries here...but when and if any have opinions/comments...I'd appreciate the thoughts.  all the best, charlie guevara

        From: Liz Day <lizday44@...>
        To: Charles Guevara <icecilliate123@...>
        Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:47 PM
        Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Re: Carpenter bees and giant asian resin bees as my neighbors.


        >this virus is now deemed: 'endemic to con-US' , rather than :
        >'invasive species'.  I wonder now...is Asian giant resin bee now
        >deemed: 'endemic', rather than: 'introduced species'...why did it
        >not be designated: 'invassive species'?  What charms permit a fellow
        >organism of our dear globe being designated: 'introduced
        >species'....vrs. : 'invassive species"?  The insect Emerald ash
        >borer/bark bettle is now deemed a contaigion in numerous NY
        >counties...just what do we consider the: giant Asian Resin Bee to be?

        Hi Charles,
        A species can never be endemic to a place it did not evolve in. I
        don't understand why West Nile virus would be called endemic to North
        America, since apparently it did not originate here.
        The only difference between an introduced species and an introduced
        invasive species is that the second term is reserved for those
        species that spread rapidly and cause problems.
        I hope this makes sense. Whether something is a problem can be
        debated in some cases. The giant resin bee has spread very quickly,
        but I am not well enough informed to know whether or not it is
        causing trouble in the environment. Generally the assumption is that
        something that spreads rapidly is also doing harm, but that might not
        always be the case.

        Liz











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