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Re: [beemonitoring] Question on bee trapping (northern AK)

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  • Sam Droege
    Deb/Robert I would consider plugging the blue vane trap holes, adding propylene glycol to the interior, then putting SMALL weep holes about half way up. This
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 18, 2011
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      Deb/Robert

      I would consider plugging the blue vane trap holes, adding propylene glycol to the interior, then putting SMALL weep holes about half way up.  This would allow the traps to trap over long periods of time without overflowing.  I would also suggest that the trap be held up not by the vanes but by the neck....Liz Sellers had some good designs for this and perhaps could share.

      The vein traps will likely get the large bees, but small bees tend to hang out near the ground...and I would suggest something similar but using the glycol traps described in the recent youtube videos we loaded up on our channel.

      http://www.youtube.com/user/swdroege

      sam


                                                     
      Sam Droege  sdroege@...                      
      w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
      USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
      BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD  20705
      Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

      HUNTING RABBITS

      The men would often go hunting rabbits
      in the countryside around the hostel—
      with guns and traps and children following
      in the sunlight of afternoon paddocks:
      marvelling in their native tongues
      at the scent of eucalypts all around.

      We never asked where the guns came from
      or what was done with them later:
      as each rifle's echo cracked through the hills
      and a rabbit would leap as if jerked
      on a wire through the air—
      or, watching hands release a trap
      then listening to a neck being broken.

      Later, I could never bring myself
      to watch the animals being skinned
      and gutted—
      excitedly
      talking about the ones that escaped
      and how white tails bobbed among brown tussocks.
      For days afterwards
      our rooms smelt of blood and fur
      as the meat was cooked in pots
      over a kerosene primus.

      But eat I did, and asked for more,
      as I learnt about the meaning of rations
      and the length of queues in dining halls—
      as well as the names of trees
      from the surrounding hills that always seemed
      to be flowering with wattles:
      growing less and less frightened by gunshots
      and what the smell of gunpowder meant—
      quickly learning to walk and keep up with men
      who strode through strange hills
      as if their migration had still not come to an end.


      - Peter Skyzynecki






      From:"deborah_rudis" <deborah_rudis@...>
      To:beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
      Date:07/18/2011 05:28 PM
      Subject:[beemonitoring] Question on bee trapping (northern AK)
      Sent by:beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com





       

      I am posting this query for Robert Dugenske who is working on the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta this summer. Rob asks' "I have been having a tough time sampling for hymenoptera a couple of different ways, the bee bowls and bluevein traps. There have been a couple of issues with each style of trap.
      For the blueveins I have been catching a lot of bombus and a few
      vespids. There are holes in the bottom of the pots of the trap to allow rain water to drain, which are large enough to allow the smaller hymenoptera to escape.
      For the bee bowls I believe that the paint that I used to color my bowls does not have the correct absorbance. I catch a few small hymenoptera here and there, but far from consistently.
      The weather has really limited the amount of bowl trapping that I have been able to conduct. We get some pretty heavy rains and the wind is nasty. The blueveins hold up a bit better in more unfavorable conditions, but I am worried more about a sampling bias in my collection for the summer.
      Has anyone else had similar problems with their bowl trapping this
      summer? I am wondering if there are some ways that I could set the bowls up better to trap more consistently and longer. I know that there are populations out here because my friend has been getting them on his beating sheet when he is out for caddis and stoneflies."

      PLEASE reply to :
      rdugenske@...



    • Elizabeth A Sellers
      Hi Deb/Robert, I also found that my blue vane traps were really good at capturing rain, and were also affected by wind (mainly from fast-moving, somewhat
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 20, 2011
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        Hi Deb/Robert,

        I also found that my blue vane traps were really good at capturing rain, and were also affected by wind (mainly from fast-moving, somewhat violent spring storms).
         
        To deal with the rain a small weep hole or two as Sam suggests about halfway up the jar (I think nail-holes or horizontal slits made with an x-acto blade would work well enough without letting bees 'leak' out); and I tied two of the vanes to the jar with two pieces of string each (1 end looped and knotted around the mouth of the jar, the other looped and tied off through a hole in the top of each vane) to prevent the jar from being pulled away from the vanes (which would be left hanging in the tree) by the weight of rainwater and during stormy weather. So the whole contraption is still hanging by a loop in the top of the vanes, but now it's all held together so it will stay in one piece during bad weather.

        And to deal with the wind, I made a wire loop threaded through the top of the vanes which was connected to a fishing swivel and then a large double-ended hook (Perky Pet 12" metal hook hanger http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-Garden-Center-Bird-Wildlife-Supplies-Accessories/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbx4k/R-100140392/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053) that helped me hang the traps on branches in tree canopies. This is difficult to describe in an email so I'll try to get some photos up on Flickr that you can look at if you're interested.

        I also ended up adding a bit of dawn detergent to the propylene glycol, which seemed to help (but I don't have any hard data to prove that).

        In contrast, my blue vane traps didn't prove to be terribly spectacular for collecting bumblebees here in the Virginia Piedmont (with the exception of one that I hung in a flowering Persimmon tree). At this point I'll just be happy if we find that they collected some species that haven't shown up in the bowl traps.

        This bowl solution might not work on extra windy sites or in heavy rain either, but we also started to put our bee-bowls on stakes at sites where the vegetation was so thick (in some places with poison ivy) that there was nowhere to safely put the bowls down on the ground. The stakes (24" or 36" plant props/loops from the Garden section of Home Depot - http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100562892/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053) are the perfect size for holding a 4" diameter bowl by its lip and we did our best to position the stakes so that the bowls were 6-8" below the 'canopy' of the grassland/forb vegetation rather than above it. The bees are flying into these bowls before I can even get them positioned in the stake.

        If specimens caught in good weather are being washed out of your bowls by heavy rain, I wonder if slightly deeper bowls; or an upturned stiff mesh flange or collar (e.g. 1-2" width of tule or insect screen) around the outside of the upper lip of each bowl might help to capture any insects that are washed out of the bowl by heavy rain? No comment RE bias this might create - paint them the same color as your bowls?

        Cheers, Liz

        Elizabeth Sellers

        Coordinator, Banshee Reeks Nature Preserve Bee Inventory (2010-2011)

        Biological Informatics Program, Core Science Systems
        United States Geological Survey
        12201 Sunrise Valley Drive, Mail Stop 302
        Reston, VA 20192  USA
        Ph 703.648.4385 | Fax 703.648.4224 | esellers@...



        From:Sam Droege/BRD/USGS/DOI
        To:beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
        Date:07/18/2011 08:44 PM
        Subject:Re: [beemonitoring] Question on bee trapping (northern AK)




        Deb/Robert

        I would consider plugging the blue vane trap holes, adding propylene glycol to the interior, then putting SMALL weep holes about half way up.  This would allow the traps to trap over long periods of time without overflowing.  I would also suggest that the trap be held up not by the vanes but by the neck....Liz Sellers had some good designs for this and perhaps could share.

        The vein traps will likely get the large bees, but small bees tend to hang out near the ground...and I would suggest something similar but using the glycol traps described in the recent youtube videos we loaded up on our channel.

        http://www.youtube.com/user/swdroege

        sam


                                                       
        Sam Droege  sdroege@...                      
        w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
        USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
        BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD  20705
        Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

        HUNTING RABBITS

        The men would often go hunting rabbits
        in the countryside around the hostel—
        with guns and traps and children following
        in the sunlight of afternoon paddocks:
        marvelling in their native tongues
        at the scent of eucalypts all around.

        We never asked where the guns came from
        or what was done with them later:
        as each rifle's echo cracked through the hills
        and a rabbit would leap as if jerked
        on a wire through the air—
        or, watching hands release a trap
        then listening to a neck being broken.

        Later, I could never bring myself
        to watch the animals being skinned
        and gutted—
        excitedly
        talking about the ones that escaped
        and how white tails bobbed among brown tussocks.
        For days afterwards
        our rooms smelt of blood and fur
        as the meat was cooked in pots
        over a kerosene primus.

        But eat I did, and asked for more,
        as I learnt about the meaning of rations
        and the length of queues in dining halls—
        as well as the names of trees
        from the surrounding hills that always seemed
        to be flowering with wattles:
        growing less and less frightened by gunshots
        and what the smell of gunpowder meant—
        quickly learning to walk and keep up with men
        who strode through strange hills
        as if their migration had still not come to an end.


        - Peter Skyzynecki







        From:"deborah_rudis" <deborah_rudis@...>
        To:beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
        Date:07/18/2011 05:28 PM
        Subject:[beemonitoring] Question on bee trapping (northern AK)
        Sent by:beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com





         

        I am posting this query for Robert Dugenske who is working on the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta this summer. Rob asks' "I have been having a tough time sampling for hymenoptera a couple of different ways, the bee bowls and bluevein traps. There have been a couple of issues with each style of trap.
        For the blueveins I have been catching a lot of bombus and a few
        vespids. There are holes in the bottom of the pots of the trap to allow rain water to drain, which are large enough to allow the smaller hymenoptera to escape.
        For the bee bowls I believe that the paint that I used to color my bowls does not have the correct absorbance. I catch a few small hymenoptera here and there, but far from consistently.
        The weather has really limited the amount of bowl trapping that I have been able to conduct. We get some pretty heavy rains and the wind is nasty. The blueveins hold up a bit better in more unfavorable conditions, but I am worried more about a sampling bias in my collection for the summer.
        Has anyone else had similar problems with their bowl trapping this
        summer? I am wondering if there are some ways that I could set the bowls up better to trap more consistently and longer. I know that there are populations out here because my friend has been getting them on his beating sheet when he is out for caddis and stoneflies."

        PLEASE reply to :
        rdugenske@...




      • Derek Sikes
        Hang the blue vane traps sideways to prevent rain from entering. They work fine this way and can be run dry with vapona strips to kill the Bombus. They ll
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 28, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Hang the blue vane traps sideways  to prevent rain from entering. They work fine this way and can be run dry with vapona strips to kill the Bombus. They'll accumulate and mold if not emptied weekly. Simply add a line to the bottom of the trap (punch a hole) & use the top and bottom line to hang horizontally. The dry catch will take less processing later (no need to wash the Bombus). This is how the USDA ARS did a large Bombus project in interior AK 2009 & 2010.

          For the smaller bee bowls - I'd recommend getting the pre-painted bowls that Sam Droege  arranged to have sold (plus the white ones). They work well but do need frequent attention (rain & wind).

          -Derek

          On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Elizabeth A Sellers <esellers@...> wrote:
           


          Hi Deb/Robert,

          I also found that my blue vane traps were really good at capturing rain, and were also affected by wind (mainly from fast-moving, somewhat violent spring storms).
           
          To deal with the rain a small weep hole or two as Sam suggests about halfway up the jar (I think nail-holes or horizontal slits made with an x-acto blade would work well enough without letting bees 'leak' out); and I tied two of the vanes to the jar with two pieces of string each (1 end looped and knotted around the mouth of the jar, the other looped and tied off through a hole in the top of each vane) to prevent the jar from being pulled away from the vanes (which would be left hanging in the tree) by the weight of rainwater and during stormy weather. So the whole contraption is still hanging by a loop in the top of the vanes, but now it's all held together so it will stay in one piece during bad weather.

          And to deal with the wind, I made a wire loop threaded through the top of the vanes which was connected to a fishing swivel and then a large double-ended hook (Perky Pet 12" metal hook hanger http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-Garden-Center-Bird-Wildlife-Supplies-Accessories/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbx4k/R-100140392/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053) that helped me hang the traps on branches in tree canopies. This is difficult to describe in an email so I'll try to get some photos up on Flickr that you can look at if you're interested.

          I also ended up adding a bit of dawn detergent to the propylene glycol, which seemed to help (but I don't have any hard data to prove that).

          In contrast, my blue vane traps didn't prove to be terribly spectacular for collecting bumblebees here in the Virginia Piedmont (with the exception of one that I hung in a flowering Persimmon tree). At this point I'll just be happy if we find that they collected some species that haven't shown up in the bowl traps.

          This bowl solution might not work on extra windy sites or in heavy rain either, but we also started to put our bee-bowls on stakes at sites where the vegetation was so thick (in some places with poison ivy) that there was nowhere to safely put the bowls down on the ground. The stakes (24" or 36" plant props/loops from the Garden section of Home Depot - http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100562892/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053) are the perfect size for holding a 4" diameter bowl by its lip and we did our best to position the stakes so that the bowls were 6-8" below the 'canopy' of the grassland/forb vegetation rather than above it. The bees are flying into these bowls before I can even get them positioned in the stake.

          If specimens caught in good weather are being washed out of your bowls by heavy rain, I wonder if slightly deeper bowls; or an upturned stiff mesh flange or collar (e.g. 1-2" width of tule or insect screen) around the outside of the upper lip of each bowl might help to capture any insects that are washed out of the bowl by heavy rain? No comment RE bias this might create - paint them the same color as your bowls?

          Cheers, Liz

          Elizabeth Sellers

          Coordinator, Banshee Reeks Nature Preserve Bee Inventory (2010-2011)

          Biological Informatics Program, Core Science Systems
          United States Geological Survey
          12201 Sunrise Valley Drive, Mail Stop 302
          Reston, VA 20192  USA
          Ph 703.648.4385 | Fax 703.648.4224 | esellers@...



          From:Sam Droege/BRD/USGS/DOI
          To:beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
          Date:07/18/2011 08:44 PM
          Subject:Re: [beemonitoring] Question on bee trapping (northern AK)




          Deb/Robert

          I would consider plugging the blue vane trap holes, adding propylene glycol to the interior, then putting SMALL weep holes about half way up.  This would allow the traps to trap over long periods of time without overflowing.  I would also suggest that the trap be held up not by the vanes but by the neck....Liz Sellers had some good designs for this and perhaps could share.

          The vein traps will likely get the large bees, but small bees tend to hang out near the ground...and I would suggest something similar but using the glycol traps described in the recent youtube videos we loaded up on our channel.

          http://www.youtube.com/user/swdroege

          sam


                                                         
          Sam Droege  sdroege@...                      
          w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
          USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
          BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD  20705
          Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

          HUNTING RABBITS

          The men would often go hunting rabbits
          in the countryside around the hostel—
          with guns and traps and children following
          in the sunlight of afternoon paddocks:
          marvelling in their native tongues
          at the scent of eucalypts all around.

          We never asked where the guns came from
          or what was done with them later:
          as each rifle's echo cracked through the hills
          and a rabbit would leap as if jerked
          on a wire through the air—
          or, watching hands release a trap
          then listening to a neck being broken.

          Later, I could never bring myself
          to watch the animals being skinned
          and gutted—
          excitedly
          talking about the ones that escaped
          and how white tails bobbed among brown tussocks.
          For days afterwards
          our rooms smelt of blood and fur
          as the meat was cooked in pots
          over a kerosene primus.

          But eat I did, and asked for more,
          as I learnt about the meaning of rations
          and the length of queues in dining halls—
          as well as the names of trees
          from the surrounding hills that always seemed
          to be flowering with wattles:
          growing less and less frightened by gunshots
          and what the smell of gunpowder meant—
          quickly learning to walk and keep up with men
          who strode through strange hills
          as if their migration had still not come to an end.


          - Peter Skyzynecki







          From:"deborah_rudis" <deborah_rudis@...>
          To:beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
          Date:07/18/2011 05:28 PM
          Subject:[beemonitoring] Question on bee trapping (northern AK)
          Sent by:beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com





           

          I am posting this query for Robert Dugenske who is working on the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta this summer. Rob asks' "I have been having a tough time sampling for hymenoptera a couple of different ways, the bee bowls and bluevein traps. There have been a couple of issues with each style of trap.


          For the blueveins I have been catching a lot of bombus and a few
          vespids. There are holes in the bottom of the pots of the trap to allow rain water to drain, which are large enough to allow the smaller hymenoptera to escape.
          For the bee bowls I believe that the paint that I used to color my bowls does not have the correct absorbance. I catch a few small hymenoptera here and there, but far from consistently.
          The weather has really limited the amount of bowl trapping that I have been able to conduct. We get some pretty heavy rains and the wind is nasty. The blueveins hold up a bit better in more unfavorable conditions, but I am worried more about a sampling bias in my collection for the summer.
          Has anyone else had similar problems with their bowl trapping this
          summer? I am wondering if there are some ways that I could set the bowls up better to trap more consistently and longer. I know that there are populations out here because my friend has been getting them on his beating sheet when he is out for caddis and stoneflies."

          PLEASE reply to :
          rdugenske@...







          --

          +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          Derek S. Sikes, Curator of Insects
          Assistant Professor of Entomology
          University of Alaska Museum
          907 Yukon Drive
          Fairbanks, AK   99775-6960

          dssikes@...
          http://users.iab.uaf.edu/~derek_sikes/sikes_lab.htm

          phone: 907-474-6278
          FAX: 907-474-5469

          University of Alaska Museum  -
          http://www.uaf.edu/museum/collections/ento/
          +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

          Interested in Alaskan Entomology? Join the Alaska Entomological Society and / or sign up for the email listserv "Alaska Entomological Network" at
          http://www.akentsoc.org/contact.php
        • Elizabeth A Sellers
          Now there s a novel idea - hang the vane traps sideways. Thanks for the tip. I m assuming the vanes were hung sideways but with the vanes intact right? How
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 28, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Now there's a novel idea - hang the vane traps sideways. Thanks for the tip. I'm assuming the vanes were hung sideways but with the vanes intact right?
            How much of a vapona (No Pest) strip do you use per trap - a whole one or is half or a quarter sufficient?
            I checked my vane traps every 2 weeks but I was hanging them early in Spring so that might explain why mold wasn't a problem.
            Cheers, Liz

            -----Derek Sikes <dssikes@...> wrote: -----

            To: Elizabeth A Sellers <esellers@...>
            From: Derek Sikes <dssikes@...>
            Date: 07/28/2011 01:28PM
            cc: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [beemonitoring] Question on bee trapping (northern AK)

            Hang the blue vane traps sideways  to prevent rain from entering. They work fine this way and can be run dry with vapona strips to kill the Bombus. They'll accumulate and mold if not emptied weekly. Simply add a line to the bottom of the trap (punch a hole) & use the top and bottom line to hang horizontally. The dry catch will take less processing later (no need to wash the Bombus). This is how the USDA ARS did a large Bombus project in interior AK 2009 & 2010.

            For the smaller bee bowls - I'd recommend getting the pre-painted bowls that Sam Droege  arranged to have sold (plus the white ones). They work well but do need frequent attention (rain & wind).

            -Derek
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