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Question about Intertegular Spans and Foraging Distance

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  • Sam Droege
    All: Nicole Freeman asked me to past the question below. You can either reply to her directly (Nicole Freeman ) or to the group. I think
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 28 6:26 PM
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      All:

      Nicole Freeman asked me to past the question below.  You can either reply to her directly (Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>) or to the group.  I think the topic is of general enough interest that it would be nice to see what the group thinks about using size as a surrogate for territory/foraging range from a trapping location as well as the notion that Intertegular Spans are the best way to measure size of a bee from dried specimens.  ... in addition to Nicole's question about whether there is any sort of compilation of such measurements.

      sam

      ==================================================
      My name is Nicole Freeman and I am a Master's student working on a bee
      project in Little Rock Arkansas.  A point of interest in my study are
      possible sources for the bees that I collected last summer in the
      Little Rock area.

      I plan to identify these by mapping my study sites and placing a
      buffer (basically a circle) around each site that would be the
      foraging distance for each taxa collected.  I have found several
      references that indicate that you can estimate foraging distance using
      bee size.  They also indicate that intertegular spans (ITs) are the
      best way to calculate bee size without damaging specimens.

      I was wondering if anyone had a quick reference guide to genera IT spans.
      Apidae ITs are usual X mm....Megachlidae ITs are usually Y mm and so
      on.  Thank you so much for your time.

      Nicole Freeman

    • barbara.abraham@hamptonu.edu
      I also am very interested in foraging range, and have found it difficult to find this information for most bees. Barbara J. Abraham, Ph.D. Associate Professor
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 29 5:20 AM
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        I also am very interested in foraging range, and have found it difficult to find this information for most bees.

         

        Barbara J. Abraham, Ph.D.

        Associate Professor

        SEEDS Ecology Chapter Advisor

        Department of Biological Sciences

        Hampton University

        Hampton, VA  23668

        757-727-5283

        barbara.abraham@...

         

        From: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Droege
        Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:27 PM
        To: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: Nicole Freeman
        Subject: [beemonitoring] Question about Intertegular Spans and Foraging Distance

         

         


        All:

        Nicole Freeman asked me to past the question below.  You can either reply to her directly (Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>) or to the group.  I think the topic is of general enough interest that it would be nice to see what the group thinks about using size as a surrogate for territory/foraging range from a trapping location as well as the notion that Intertegular Spans are the best way to measure size of a bee from dried specimens.  ... in addition to Nicole's question about whether there is any sort of compilation of such measurements.

        sam

        ==================================================
        My name is Nicole Freeman and I am a Master's student working on a bee
        project in Little Rock Arkansas.  A point of interest in my study are
        possible sources for the bees that I collected last summer in the
        Little Rock area.

        I plan to identify these by mapping my study sites and placing a
        buffer (basically a circle) around each site that would be the
        foraging distance for each taxa collected.  I have found several
        references that indicate that you can estimate foraging distance using
        bee size.  They also indicate that intertegular spans (ITs) are the
        best way to calculate bee size without damaging specimens.

        I was wondering if anyone had a quick reference guide to genera IT spans.
        Apidae ITs are usual X mm....Megachlidae ITs are usually Y mm and so
        on.  Thank you so much for your time.

        Nicole Freeman

        The information contained in this message is intended only for the recipient, and may otherwise be privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, please be aware that any dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. This footnote also confirms that this email has been scanned for all viruses by the Hampton University Center for Information Technology Enterprise Systems service.
      • David Inouye
        Here are some references that have information about foraging range. David Beil, M., H. Horn, and A. Schwabe. 2008. Analysis of pollen loads in a wild bee
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 29 5:48 AM
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          Here are some references that have information about foraging range. 

          David

          Beil, M., H. Horn, and A. Schwabe. 2008. Analysis of pollen loads in a wild bee community (Hymenoptera: Apidae) a method for elucidating habitat use and foraging distances. Apidologie 39:456-467.
          Gathmann, A. and T. Tscharntke. 2002. Foraging ranges of solitary bees. Journal of Animal Ecology 71:757-764.
          Goulson, D., B. Darvill, J. Ellis, M. E. Knight, and M. E. Hanley. 2004. Interspecific differences in response to novel landmarks in bumblebees (Bombus sp.). Apidologie 35:619-622.
          Knight, M. E., A. P. Martin, S. Bishop, J. L. Osborne, R. J. Hale, R. A. Sanderson, and D. Goulson. 2005. An interspecific comparison of foraging range and nest density of four bumblebee (Bombus) species. Molecular Ecology 14:1811-1820.
          Knight, M. E., A. P. Martin, S. Bishop, J. L. Osborne, R. J. Hale, R. A. Sanderson, and D. Goulson. 2005. An interspecific comparison of foraging range and nest density of four bumblebee (Bombus) species. Molecular Ecology 14:1811-1820.
          L M. M., C. A. Oi, and M. A. Del Lama. 2008. Nectar-foraging behavior of Euglossine bees (Hymenoptera: Apidae) in urban areas. Apidologie 39:410-418.
          Munidasa, D. and Y. Toquenaga. 2010. Do pollen diets vary among adjacent bumble bee colonies? Ecological Research 25:639-646.
          Osborne, J. L., A. P. Martin, N. L. Carreck, J. L. Swain, M. E. Knight, D. Goulson, R. J. Hale, and R. A. Sanderson. 2008. Bumblebee flight distances in relation to the forage landscape. Journal of Animal Ecology 77:406-415.
          Pasquet, R. S., A. Peltier, M. B. Hufford, E. Oudin, J. Saulnier, L. Paul, J. T. Knudsen, H. R. Herren, and P. Gepts. 2008. Long-distance pollen flow assessment through evaluation of pollinator foraging range suggests transgene escape distances. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 105:13456-13461.
          Zurbuchen, A., L. Landert, J. Klaiber, A. M S. Hein, and S. Dorn. 2010. Maximum foraging ranges in solitary bees: only few individuals have the capability to cover long foraging distances. Biological Conservation 143:669-676.
        • Leo Shapiro
          Maybe I missed a posting, but has the attached 2007 review by Greenleaf et al. in Oecologia ( Bee foraging ranges and their relationship to body size ) already
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 29 6:23 AM
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          Maybe I missed a posting, but has the attached 2007 review by Greenleaf et al. in Oecologia ("Bee foraging ranges and their relationship to body size") already been pointed out? (DOI 10.1007/s00442-007-0752-9)? The online supplementary tables should include bee measurements for the species in their analyses.

          Leo


          On Apr 29, 2011, at 8:48 AM, David Inouye wrote:


          Here are some references that have information about foraging range.  

          David

          Beil, M., H. Horn, and A. Schwabe. 2008. Analysis of pollen loads in a wild bee community (Hymenoptera: Apidae) a method for elucidating habitat use and foraging distances. Apidologie 39:456-467.
          Gathmann, A. and T. Tscharntke. 2002. Foraging ranges of solitary bees. Journal of Animal Ecology 71:757-764.
          Goulson, D., B. Darvill, J. Ellis, M. E. Knight, and M. E. Hanley. 2004. Interspecific differences in response to novel landmarks in bumblebees (Bombus sp.). Apidologie 35:619-622.
          Knight, M. E., A. P. Martin, S. Bishop, J. L. Osborne, R. J. Hale, R. A. Sanderson, and D. Goulson. 2005. An interspecific comparison of foraging range and nest density of four bumblebee (Bombus) species. Molecular Ecology 14:1811-1820.
          Knight, M. E., A. P. Martin, S. Bishop, J. L. Osborne, R. J. Hale, R. A. Sanderson, and D. Goulson. 2005. An interspecific comparison of foraging range and nest density of four bumblebee (Bombus) species. Molecular Ecology 14:1811-1820.
          L M. M., C. A. Oi, and M. A. Del Lama. 2008. Nectar-foraging behavior of Euglossine bees (Hymenoptera: Apidae) in urban areas. Apidologie 39:410-418.
          Munidasa, D. and Y. Toquenaga. 2010. Do pollen diets vary among adjacent bumble bee colonies? Ecological Research 25:639-646.
          Osborne, J. L., A. P. Martin, N. L. Carreck, J. L. Swain, M. E. Knight, D. Goulson, R. J. Hale, and R. A. Sanderson. 2008. Bumblebee flight distances in relation to the forage landscape. Journal of Animal Ecology 77:406-415.
          Pasquet, R. S., A. Peltier, M. B. Hufford, E. Oudin, J. Saulnier, L. Paul, J. T. Knudsen, H. R. Herren, and P. Gepts. 2008. Long-distance pollen flow assessment through evaluation of pollinator foraging range suggests transgene escape distances. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 105:13456-13461.
          Zurbuchen, A., L. Landert, J. Klaiber, A. M S. Hein, and S. Dorn. 2010. Maximum foraging ranges in solitary bees: only few individuals have the capability to cover long foraging distances. Biological Conservation 143:669-676.

        • Jack Neff
          All: The best way to measure size is to actually weigh the bees, but that s a bit messy with pinned specimens. Transtegular span works as well as any single
          Message 5 of 11 , Apr 29 8:04 AM
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            All:  The best way to measure size is to actually weigh the bees, but that's a bit messy with pinned specimens.  Transtegular span works as well as any single morphological measurement when comparing things which vary greatly in size.  Its utility decreases when dealing with things of roughly similar size (at least in one dimension) since it assumes everything is essentially the same shape, something that doesn't work well when comparing things like a Chelostoma and an Exomalopsis or anything with any form of allometry.  One should also be aware that the  folks who have concocted regression analyses leading to the formulas predicting mass from transtegular widths have all come up with slightly different equations based on the different datasets they analyzed. 
             
            John L. Neff
            Central Texas Melittological Institute
            7307 Running Rope
            Austin,TX 78731 USA
            512-345-7219



            From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
            To: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>
            Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 8:26:57 PM
            Subject: [beemonitoring] Question about Intertegular Spans and Foraging Distance

             


            All:

            Nicole Freeman asked me to past the question below.  You can either reply to her directly (Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>) or to the group.  I think the topic is of general enough interest that it would be nice to see what the group thinks about using size as a surrogate for territory/foraging range from a trapping location as well as the notion that Intertegular Spans are the best way to measure size of a bee from dried specimens.  ... in addition to Nicole's question about whether there is any sort of compilation of such measurements.

            sam

            ==================================================
            My name is Nicole Freeman and I am a Master's student working on a bee
            project in Little Rock Arkansas.  A point of interest in my study are
            possible sources for the bees that I collected last summer in the
            Little Rock area.

            I plan to identify these by mapping my study sites and placing a
            buffer (basically a circle) around each site that would be the
            foraging distance for each taxa collected.  I have found several
            references that indicate that you can estimate foraging distance using
            bee size.  They also indicate that intertegular spans (ITs) are the
            best way to calculate bee size without damaging specimens.

            I was wondering if anyone had a quick reference guide to genera IT spans.
            Apidae ITs are usual X mm....Megachlidae ITs are usually Y mm and so
            on.  Thank you so much for your time.

            Nicole Freeman

          • Cane, Jim
            Folks- I agree with Jack..my stated intent in developing intertegular span was for mouse-to-elephant comparisons with pinned bees that was minimally influenced
            Message 6 of 11 , Apr 29 8:18 AM
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              Folks- I agree with Jack..my stated intent in developing intertegular span was for mouse-to-elephant comparisons with pinned bees that was minimally influenced by allometry, reasoning that it reflected thoracic volume and the musculature for lift in flight.  However, in practice you will find that you aren’t comfortable with fine differences between similarly sized species, which was not the measure’s intent (if you think that “size” is a singular concept, try defining it).  As to flight/foraging range, read carefully how it was measured in different studies, as it is not consistent and in different contexts, will yield different numbers.  Until recently , it was wholly unknown for any of the thousands of smaller-bodied bees.  Now we know for a few.  For a listing of bee sizes, I believe Bullock’s paper (J Kansas Ent Soc 1999)is most useful, and for foraging ranges, I like Zurbuchen’s recent papers.

               

              jim

               

              ===============================

              James H. Cane

              USDA-ARS Pollinating Insect Research Lab

              Utah State University, Logan, UT 84322 USA

              tel: 435-797-3879   FAX: 435-797-0461

              email: Jim.Cane@... 

              http://www.ars.usda.gov/npa/logan/beelab

              http://www.biology.usu.edu/people/facultyinfo.asp?username=jcane

              Gardening for Native Bees: http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/factsheet/plants-pollinators09.pdf



               

            • Sam Droege
              All: I believe Matthias Buck often uses wing length in his vespid work as a measure of size.... I would assume that the regression people have looked at this
              Message 7 of 11 , Apr 29 8:44 AM
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                All:

                I believe Matthias  Buck often uses wing length in his vespid work as a measure of size.... I would assume that the regression people have looked at this with bees....?

                sam

                Sam Droege  sdroege@...                      
                w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
                USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
                BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD  20705
                Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

                There's a certain Slant of light,
                Winter Afternoons—
                That oppresses, like the Heft
                Of Cathedral Tunes—
                Heavenly Hurt, it gives us—
                We can find no scar,
                But internal difference,
                Where the Meanings, are—
                None may teach it—Any—
                'Tis the Seal Despair—
                An imperial affliction
                Sent us of the Air—
                When it comes, the Landscape listens—
                Shadows—hold their breath—
                When it goes, 'tis like the Distance
                On the look of Death—
                   -Emily Dickinson


                P Bees are not optional.


                From:Jack Neff <jlnatctmi@...>
                To:Sam Droege <sdroege@...>, beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                Cc:Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>
                Date:04/29/2011 11:05 AM
                Subject:Re: [beemonitoring] Question about Intertegular Spans and Foraging Distance





                All:  The best way to measure size is to actually weigh the bees, but that's a bit messy with pinned specimens.  Transtegular span works as well as any single morphological measurement when comparing things which vary greatly in size.  Its utility decreases when dealing with things of roughly similar size (at least in one dimension) since it assumes everything is essentially the same shape, something that doesn't work well when comparing things like a Chelostoma and an Exomalopsis or anything with any form of allometry.  One should also be aware that the  folks who have concocted regression analyses leading to the formulas predicting mass from transtegular widths have all come up with slightly different equations based on the different datasets they analyzed.

                John L. Neff
                Central Texas Melittological Institute
                7307 Running Rope
                Austin,TX 78731 USA
                512-345-7219




                From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
                To:
                beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                Cc:
                Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>
                Sent:
                Thu, April 28, 2011 8:26:57 PM
                Subject:
                [beemonitoring] Question about Intertegular Spans and Foraging Distance


                 


                All:


                Nicole Freeman asked me to past the question below.  You can either reply to her directly (
                Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>) or to the group.  I think the topic is of general enough interest that it would be nice to see what the group thinks about using size as a surrogate for territory/foraging range from a trapping location as well as the notion that Intertegular Spans are the best way to measure size of a bee from dried specimens.  ... in addition to Nicole's question about whether there is any sort of compilation of such measurements.

                sam


                ==================================================
                My name is Nicole Freeman and I am a Master's student working on a bee
                project in Little Rock Arkansas.  A point of interest in my study are
                possible sources for the bees that I collected last summer in the
                Little Rock area.

                I plan to identify these by mapping my study sites and placing a
                buffer (basically a circle) around each site that would be the
                foraging distance for each taxa collected.  I have found several
                references that indicate that you can estimate foraging distance using
                bee size.  They also indicate that intertegular spans (ITs) are the
                best way to calculate bee size without damaging specimens.

                I was wondering if anyone had a quick reference guide to genera IT spans.
                Apidae ITs are usual X mm....Megachlidae ITs are usually Y mm and so
                on.  Thank you so much for your time.

                Nicole Freeman




              • Jack Neff
                Wing length is highly subject to wear and using internal markers (distance to the apex of the marginal cell) is problematic since this varies allometrically
                Message 8 of 11 , Apr 29 8:50 AM
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                  Wing length is highly subject to wear and using internal markers (distance to the apex of the marginal cell) is problematic since this varies allometrically with mass.

                  Jack
                   
                  John L. Neff
                  Central Texas Melittological Institute
                  7307 Running Rope
                  Austin,TX 78731 USA
                  512-345-7219



                  From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
                  To: Jack Neff <jlnatctmi@...>
                  Cc: beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com; Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>
                  Sent: Fri, April 29, 2011 10:44:05 AM
                  Subject: [beemonitoring] Wing Length As a Measure of Size

                   


                  All:

                  I believe Matthias  Buck often uses wing length in his vespid work as a measure of size.... I would assume that the regression people have looked at this with bees....?

                  sam

                  Sam Droege  sdroege@...                      
                  w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
                  USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
                  BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD  20705
                  Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

                  There's a certain Slant of light,
                  Winter Afternoons—
                  That oppresses, like the Heft
                  Of Cathedral Tunes—
                  Heavenly Hurt, it gives us—
                  We can find no scar,
                  But internal difference,
                  Where the Meanings, are—
                  None may teach it—Any—
                  'Tis the Seal Despair—
                  An imperial affliction
                  Sent us of the Air—
                  When it comes, the Landscape listens—
                  Shadows—hold their breath—
                  When it goes, 'tis like the Distance
                  On the look of Death—
                     -Emily Dickinson



                  P Bees are not optional.


                  From:Jack Neff <jlnatctmi@...>
                  To:Sam Droege <sdroege@...>, beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                  Cc:Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>
                  Date:04/29/2011 11:05 AM
                  Subject:Re: [beemonitoring] Question about Intertegular Spans and Foraging Distance





                  All:  The best way to measure size is to actually weigh the bees, but that's a bit messy with pinned specimens.  Transtegular span works as well as any single morphological measurement when comparing things which vary greatly in size.  Its utility decreases when dealing with things of roughly similar size (at least in one dimension) since it assumes everything is essentially the same shape, something that doesn't work well when comparing things like a Chelostoma and an Exomalopsis or anything with any form of allometry.  One should also be aware that the  folks who have concocted regression analyses leading to the formulas predicting mass from transtegular widths have all come up with slightly different equations based on the different datasets they analyzed.

                  John L. Neff
                  Central Texas Melittological Institute
                  7307 Running Rope
                  Austin,TX 78731 USA
                  512-345-7219




                  From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
                  To:
                  beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                  Cc:
                  Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>
                  Sent:
                  Thu, April 28, 2011 8:26:57 PM
                  Subject:
                  [beemonitoring] Question about Intertegular Spans and Foraging Distance


                   


                  All:


                  Nicole Freeman asked me to past the question below.  You can either reply to her directly (
                  Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>) or to the group.  I think the topic is of general enough interest that it would be nice to see what the group thinks about using size as a surrogate for territory/foraging range from a trapping location as well as the notion that Intertegular Spans are the best way to measure size of a bee from dried specimens.  ... in addition to Nicole's question about whether there is any sort of compilation of such measurements.

                  sam


                  ==================================================
                  My name is Nicole Freeman and I am a Master's student working on a bee
                  project in Little Rock Arkansas.  A point of interest in my study are
                  possible sources for the bees that I collected last summer in the
                  Little Rock area.

                  I plan to identify these by mapping my study sites and placing a
                  buffer (basically a circle) around each site that would be the
                  foraging distance for each taxa collected.  I have found several
                  references that indicate that you can estimate foraging distance using
                  bee size.  They also indicate that intertegular spans (ITs) are the
                  best way to calculate bee size without damaging specimens.

                  I was wondering if anyone had a quick reference guide to genera IT spans.
                  Apidae ITs are usual X mm....Megachlidae ITs are usually Y mm and so
                  on.  Thank you so much for your time.

                  Nicole Freeman




                • Matthias Buck
                  Hi all, Yes, I am using wing length as a measure in Vespidae. I have never looked into how this precisely relates to other body measurements such as weight,
                  Message 9 of 11 , Apr 29 8:59 AM
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                    Hi all,

                    Yes, I am using wing length as a measure in Vespidae. I have never looked into how this precisely relates to other body measurements such as weight, size of thorax etc. However, the scope of my work has been purely taxonomic, so I have not been interested in fitness parameters, foraging ranges or that sort of thing. It simply serves me as an approximate indicator of body size.

                    Cheers,

                                Matthias


                    On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Sam Droege <sdroege@...> wrote:
                     


                    All:

                    I believe Matthias  Buck often uses wing length in his vespid work as a measure of size.... I would assume that the regression people have looked at this with bees....?

                    sam

                    Sam Droege  sdroege@...                      
                    w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
                    USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
                    BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD  20705
                    Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

                    There's a certain Slant of light,
                    Winter Afternoons—
                    That oppresses, like the Heft
                    Of Cathedral Tunes—
                    Heavenly Hurt, it gives us—
                    We can find no scar,
                    But internal difference,
                    Where the Meanings, are—
                    None may teach it—Any—
                    'Tis the Seal Despair—
                    An imperial affliction
                    Sent us of the Air—
                    When it comes, the Landscape listens—
                    Shadows—hold their breath—
                    When it goes, 'tis like the Distance
                    On the look of Death—
                       -Emily Dickinson



                    P Bees are not optional.


                    From:Jack Neff <jlnatctmi@...>
                    To:Sam Droege <sdroege@...>, beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                    Cc:Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>
                    Date:04/29/2011 11:05 AM
                    Subject:Re: [beemonitoring] Question about Intertegular Spans and Foraging Distance





                    All:  The best way to measure size is to actually weigh the bees, but that's a bit messy with pinned specimens.  Transtegular span works as well as any single morphological measurement when comparing things which vary greatly in size.  Its utility decreases when dealing with things of roughly similar size (at least in one dimension) since it assumes everything is essentially the same shape, something that doesn't work well when comparing things like a Chelostoma and an Exomalopsis or anything with any form of allometry.  One should also be aware that the  folks who have concocted regression analyses leading to the formulas predicting mass from transtegular widths have all come up with slightly different equations based on the different datasets they analyzed.

                    John L. Neff
                    Central Texas Melittological Institute
                    7307 Running Rope
                    Austin,TX 78731 USA
                    512-345-7219




                    From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
                    To:
                    beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                    Cc:
                    Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>
                    Sent:
                    Thu, April 28, 2011 8:26:57 PM
                    Subject:
                    [beemonitoring] Question about Intertegular Spans and Foraging Distance


                     


                    All:


                    Nicole Freeman asked me to past the question below.  You can either reply to her directly (
                    Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>) or to the group.  I think the topic is of general enough interest that it would be nice to see what the group thinks about using size as a surrogate for territory/foraging range from a trapping location as well as the notion that Intertegular Spans are the best way to measure size of a bee from dried specimens.  ... in addition to Nicole's question about whether there is any sort of compilation of such measurements.

                    sam


                    ==================================================
                    My name is Nicole Freeman and I am a Master's student working on a bee
                    project in Little Rock Arkansas.  A point of interest in my study are
                    possible sources for the bees that I collected last summer in the
                    Little Rock area.

                    I plan to identify these by mapping my study sites and placing a
                    buffer (basically a circle) around each site that would be the
                    foraging distance for each taxa collected.  I have found several
                    references that indicate that you can estimate foraging distance using
                    bee size.  They also indicate that intertegular spans (ITs) are the
                    best way to calculate bee size without damaging specimens.

                    I was wondering if anyone had a quick reference guide to genera IT spans.
                    Apidae ITs are usual X mm....Megachlidae ITs are usually Y mm and so
                    on.  Thank you so much for your time.

                    Nicole Freeman







                    --
                    Dr. Matthias Buck
                    Invertebrate Zoology
                    Royal Alberta Museum
                    12845-102nd Avenue
                    Edmonton, Alberta
                    Canada, T5N 0M6
                    Phone: (780) 453-9122
                    www.royalalbertamuseum.ca
                  • Daniel Paiva Silva
                    Dear Nicole Freeman and everyone else, I am starting my Ph.D. sampling here in Brazil and I am also facing the same problem. I would like very much to know if
                    Message 10 of 11 , Apr 29 2:14 PM
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                      Dear Nicole Freeman and everyone else,

                      I am starting my Ph.D. sampling here in Brazil and I am also facing the same problem. I would like very much to know if IT spam is really a good surrogate to fly capacity and if there is any place where I can obtain the species (or genera) average IT spam measurements...

                      Nicole, I don't know if it is to ask to much of you, but could you please indicate me the latest papers you have read that argue that IT spam is a good surrogate for bees' flight capacity?

                      Thank you very much!
                      Best regards,

                      Daniel.

                      ——

                      Daniel de Paiva Silva

                      Graduate Program in Ecology & Evolution
                      Theoretical Ecology and Synthesis Lab - LETS
                      Biological Sciences Institute - ICB - UFG
                      Goiânia - Goiás - Brazil


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                    • Anita M. Collins
                      USDA ID the morphometric measurements used to differentiate Africanized and European honey bees does use wing length as a quick and dirty field measurement.
                      Message 11 of 11 , May 15, 2011
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                         USDA ID the morphometric measurements used to differentiate Africanized and European honey bees does use wing length as a quick and dirty field measurement.  That will work for extremes of both types, but more intermediate sizes require a 23 (can't remember exactly) point measurement.  This includes other wing lengths and angles, as well as wax mirror length and width, and number of hamuli on the wings. 
                         
                        anita 
                         
                         
                        If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be research. Albert Einstein
                         
                        On 04/29/11, Matthias Buck<buckmb@...> wrote:  

                        Hi all,

                        Yes, I am using wing length as a measure in Vespidae. I have never looked into how this precisely relates to other body measurements such as weight, size of thorax etc. However, the scope of my work has been purely taxonomic, so I have not been interested in fitness parameters, foraging ranges or that sort of thing. It simply serves me as an approximate indicator of body size.

                        Cheers,

                                    Matthias


                        On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Sam Droege <sdroege@...> wrote:
                         


                        All:

                        I believe Matthias  Buck often uses wing length in his vespid work as a measure of size.... I would assume that the regression people have looked at this with bees....?

                        sam

                        Sam Droege  sdroege@...                      
                        w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624
                        USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center
                        BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD  20705
                        Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov

                        There's a certain Slant of light,
                        Winter Afternoons—
                        That oppresses, like the Heft
                        Of Cathedral Tunes—
                        Heavenly Hurt, it gives us—
                        We can find no scar,
                        But internal difference,
                        Where the Meanings, are—
                        None may teach it—Any—
                        'Tis the Seal Despair—
                        An imperial affliction
                        Sent us of the Air—
                        When it comes, the Landscape listens—
                        Shadows—hold their breath—
                        When it goes, 'tis like the Distance
                        On the look of Death—
                           -Emily Dickinson



                        P Bees are not optional.


                        From:Jack Neff <jlnatctmi@...>
                        To:Sam Droege <sdroege@...>, beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                        Cc:Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>
                        Date:04/29/2011 11:05 AM
                        Subject:Re: [beemonitoring] Question about Intertegular Spans and Foraging Distance





                        All:  The best way to measure size is to actually weigh the bees, but that's a bit messy with pinned specimens.  Transtegular span works as well as any single morphological measurement when comparing things which vary greatly in size.  Its utility decreases when dealing with things of roughly similar size (at least in one dimension) since it assumes everything is essentially the same shape, something that doesn't work well when comparing things like a Chelostoma and an Exomalopsis or anything with any form of allometry.  One should also be aware that the  folks who have concocted regression analyses leading to the formulas predicting mass from transtegular widths have all come up with slightly different equations based on the different datasets they analyzed.

                        John L. Neff
                        Central Texas Melittological Institute
                        7307 Running Rope
                        Austin,TX 78731 USA
                        512-345-7219




                        From: Sam Droege <sdroege@...>
                        To:
                        beemonitoring@yahoogroups.com
                        Cc:
                        Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>
                        Sent:
                        Thu, April 28, 2011 8:26:57 PM
                        Subject:
                        [beemonitoring] Question about Intertegular Spans and Foraging Distance


                         


                        All:


                        Nicole Freeman asked me to past the question below.  You can either reply to her directly (
                        Nicole Freeman <ndfreeman@...>) or to the group.  I think the topic is of general enough interest that it would be nice to see what the group thinks about using size as a surrogate for territory/foraging range from a trapping location as well as the notion that Intertegular Spans are the best way to measure size of a bee from dried specimens.  ... in addition to Nicole's question about whether there is any sort of compilation of such measurements.

                        sam


                        ==================================================
                        My name is Nicole Freeman and I am a Master's student working on a bee
                        project in Little Rock Arkansas.  A point of interest in my study are
                        possible sources for the bees that I collected last summer in the
                        Little Rock area.

                        I plan to identify these by mapping my study sites and placing a
                        buffer (basically a circle) around each site that would be the
                        foraging distance for each taxa collected.  I have found several
                        references that indicate that you can estimate foraging distance using
                        bee size.  They also indicate that intertegular spans (ITs) are the
                        best way to calculate bee size without damaging specimens.

                        I was wondering if anyone had a quick reference guide to genera IT spans.
                        Apidae ITs are usual X mm....Megachlidae ITs are usually Y mm and so
                        on.  Thank you so much for your time.

                        Nicole Freeman







                        --
                        Dr. Matthias Buck
                        Invertebrate Zoology
                        Royal Alberta Museum
                        12845-102nd Avenue
                        Edmonton, Alberta
                        Canada, T5N 0M6
                        Phone: (780) 453-9122
                        www.royalalbertamuseum.ca
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