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Re: Boat or Hovercraft

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  • Eric Seale
    Mike, ... BEAM-bot... ... Not so impractical -- you could probably just add little styrofoam feet to a regular 2-motor walker. This d put a real premium on
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 2, 2001
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      Mike,

      --- In beam@egroups.com, Michael Vanecek <mike@m...> wrote:
      > You want impractical but neat - try building a water-strider
      BEAM-bot...
      > :) Now _that_ would be cool - robots walking on water.

      Not so impractical -- you could probably "just" add little styrofoam
      feet to a regular 2-motor walker. This'd put a real premium on
      lightweight 'bots, since you wouldn't want the feet to get too big
      (and you'd need to be able to support the weight of the whole
      walker on 3 of its foam feet).

      Eric
      -----------------------------------------------------------------
      Eric Seale | BEAM from the Ground Up!
      bftgu@... | http://bftgu.botic.com
    • Michael Vanecek
      Hmmm, I was thinking about actually trying to mimic the strider s method of staying afloat - using water surface tension. That would probably involve
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 2, 2001
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        Hmmm, I was thinking about actually trying to mimic the strider's method
        of staying afloat - using water surface tension. That would probably
        involve hand-soldering smd components, a couple of micro-motors (maybe
        like those used in hotwheels), and developing "feet" that would ride on
        top of the water. Probably very thin strands of plastic with branches
        and sub-branches in a 2D fractal format that spread the weight of the
        tiny BEAM-bot over a large area. It'd be a neat experiment...

        Mike

        Eric Seale wrote:
        >
        > Mike,
        >
        > --- In beam@egroups.com, Michael Vanecek <mike@m...> wrote:
        > > You want impractical but neat - try building a water-strider
        > BEAM-bot...
        > > :) Now _that_ would be cool - robots walking on water.
        >
        > Not so impractical -- you could probably "just" add little styrofoam
        > feet to a regular 2-motor walker. This'd put a real premium on
        > lightweight 'bots, since you wouldn't want the feet to get too big
        > (and you'd need to be able to support the weight of the whole
        > walker on 3 of its foam feet).
        >
        > Eric
        > -----------------------------------------------------------------
        > Eric Seale | BEAM from the Ground Up!
        > bftgu@... | http://bftgu.botic.com
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > beam-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      • addict4mustang@cs.com
        ... Wouldn t you need a shifting weight though so the darn thing won t tip over??? I m just wondering not sure though Mr. X (peter) ... styrofoam
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 2, 2001
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          --- In beam@egroups.com, "Eric Seale" <Eric.Seale@p...> wrote:
          Wouldn't you need a shifting weight though so the darn thing won't
          tip over??? I'm just wondering not sure though

          Mr. X (peter)


          > Mike,
          >
          > --- In beam@egroups.com, Michael Vanecek <mike@m...> wrote:
          > > You want impractical but neat - try building a water-strider
          > BEAM-bot...
          > > :) Now _that_ would be cool - robots walking on water.
          >
          > Not so impractical -- you could probably "just" add little
          styrofoam
          > feet to a regular 2-motor walker. This'd put a real premium on
          > lightweight 'bots, since you wouldn't want the feet to get too big
          > (and you'd need to be able to support the weight of the whole
          > walker on 3 of its foam feet).
          >
          > Eric
          > -----------------------------------------------------------------
          > Eric Seale | BEAM from the Ground Up!
          > bftgu@m... | http://bftgu.botic.com
        • David Simmons
          Michael, Kyle tried this a while back, but after several attempts, at finding the right motion, he gave up on the project and put it away for a later date. The
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 2, 2001
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            Michael,

            Kyle tried this a while back, but after several attempts, at finding the
            right motion, he gave up on the project and put it away for a later
            date. The mechanics are a nightmare, walking is almost impossible so you
            need to slide the floats along. Then you need light fins along the
            bottom of each float, so the pontoon slides forwards in the water, but
            does not slide back. The project may or may not be pulled of the shelf,
            but if Kyle gives another shot I'll post any new advances as they occur.

            Later,
            Dave Simmons

            Michael Vanecek wrote:
            >
            > You want impractical but neat - try building a water-strider BEAM-bot...
            > :) Now _that_ would be cool - robots walking on water.
            >
            > Mike
            >
            > Tyler B wrote:
            > >
            > > Has anybody ever tryed to make a Solar powered boat or Hovercraft, I
            > > am just wondering if it could be done, although it probably wouldn't
            > > be very practical.
            > >
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > beam-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > beam-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          • Justin Fisher
            ... Hotwheels? (I m thinking of the Hotwheels toy cars like the XV racers, which have motors at least three times bigger than a normal pager motor, so I m
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 3, 2001
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              >a couple of micro-motors (maybe like those used in hotwheels)

              Hotwheels? (I'm thinking of the Hotwheels toy cars like the XV racers,
              which have motors at least three times bigger than a normal pager
              motor, so I'm thinking I've missed something... :-)

              Regarding what to use for legs (feathers etc), do duck and
              other waterfowl feathers also get waterlogged in a matter of minutes?
              Perhaps go down to the local party make-up / wig / mask shop and look
              at their range of enormous fake eyelashes.

              The idea is to get a hairy leg that, like the real thing, moves across
              the water forwards easier than backwards (due to the angle and flex of
              the hairs etc). If you can acheive such a leg, you might be able to
              ditch the motors in favour of a vibration device (be it a lone "TPM"
              motor with a small cut-down offset weight, or a coil and earphone
              magnet) that generates a oscillation of the legs. If _that_ works too,
              then the bug could be lighter, smaller, far more energy efficient,
              appear and sound more like an insect (and be a hell of a lot easier to
              build! :)

              Some* R&D is involved, but I don't see me getting around to it any
              time soon (I've been meaning to try this idea for almost two years now
              :)

              * That "Some" in this context translates to "LOTS, including many
              failed attempts and nothing but sheer bloodymindedness standing
              between you and quiting" :-)
            • Michael Vanecek
              I haven t seen them lately, but the hotwheels cars I played with as a kid were those small two inch cars that you put on electrified tracks. But in
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 3, 2001
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                I haven't seen them lately, but the hotwheels cars I played with as a
                kid were those small two inch cars that you put on electrified tracks.
                But in retrospective - perhaps a regular motor wouldn't be the best
                thing to use - I'll need to concoct a linear drive of sorts. As far as
                locamotion - the method used by water striding insects is actually very
                interesting. Nothing breaks through the surface - the insect is actually
                in a very frictionless environment - kinda like me on wet ice in
                slippers. But each leg creates a little dimple on the water's surface,
                and when they move their legs, the dimple moves, creating drag in the
                water under the surface. Regular water striders use their middle legs to
                "paddle". I'm thinking of emulating the fishing spider though - more
                legs equals higher surface area and more weight. I've found smd
                equivelants for everything but the photodiodes and the main capacitor
                (2200uF perhaps? - 10mm x 16mm) for the basic popper circuit. I may
                experiment with polymer solar-cells too. They should be lighter. I'll
                need to create a motor that will move a leg back, lift it up for the
                return stroke and place it back down without breaking the surface. Lotsa
                fun. I'm not sure of the practicality of this little experiment, but
                it's kinda neat. It'd be easier to cheat and use floatation devices, but
                the challenge of building something that can actually walk on water is
                too cool to pass up...

                Cheers,
                Mike



                Justin Fisher wrote:
                >
                > >a couple of micro-motors (maybe like those used in hotwheels)
                >
                > Hotwheels? (I'm thinking of the Hotwheels toy cars like the XV racers,
                > which have motors at least three times bigger than a normal pager
                > motor, so I'm thinking I've missed something... :-)
                >
                > Regarding what to use for legs (feathers etc), do duck and
                > other waterfowl feathers also get waterlogged in a matter of minutes?
                > Perhaps go down to the local party make-up / wig / mask shop and look
                > at their range of enormous fake eyelashes.
                >
                > The idea is to get a hairy leg that, like the real thing, moves across
                > the water forwards easier than backwards (due to the angle and flex of
                > the hairs etc). If you can acheive such a leg, you might be able to
                > ditch the motors in favour of a vibration device (be it a lone "TPM"
                > motor with a small cut-down offset weight, or a coil and earphone
                > magnet) that generates a oscillation of the legs. If _that_ works too,
                > then the bug could be lighter, smaller, far more energy efficient,
                > appear and sound more like an insect (and be a hell of a lot easier to
                > build! :)
                >
                > Some* R&D is involved, but I don't see me getting around to it any
                > time soon (I've been meaning to try this idea for almost two years now
                > :)
                >
                > * That "Some" in this context translates to "LOTS, including many
                > failed attempts and nothing but sheer bloodymindedness standing
                > between you and quiting" :-)
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > beam-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              • NuLynx@aol.com
                ... Yeah, a lot of flies for fly fishing are made from duck and other waterfowl feathers. The spray you can get for fly fishing helps, but like I said, it only
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 3, 2001
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                  --- In beam@egroups.com, "Justin Fisher" <jaf60@c...> wrote:

                  > Regarding what to use for legs (feathers etc), do duck and
                  > other waterfowl feathers also get waterlogged in a matter of minutes?
                  > Perhaps go down to the local party make-up / wig / mask shop and look
                  > at their range of enormous fake eyelashes.

                  Yeah, a lot of flies for fly fishing are made from duck and other waterfowl feathers. The spray you can get for fly fishing helps, but like I said, it only works for a
                  couple of minutes. One idea may be to go to your local department store (Walmart, K-Mart, etc) and look in the camping section. You can buy a silicone spray that
                  is used for waterproofing boots and tents. This stuff may hold up better than anything else. Another idea might be to get some clear laquer-type spray paint and
                  lightly mist the feathers. I guess anything that would dry with a light weight "plastic" coating may waterproof them enough. I know the silicone camping spray
                  works great on boots and canvas, so that might be just the ticket.

                  Brad


                  Nulynx@...


                  -----------------
                • Scott Burns
                  ... Last summer I ran across about six of these insects in a small pool of stagnant water. For a while, I was fascinated by their ability to scoot on top of
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 3, 2001
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                    At 12:22 PM 1/3/01 -0600, you wrote:
                    >Nothing breaks through the surface - the insect is actually
                    >in a very frictionless environment - kinda like me on wet ice in
                    >slippers. But each leg creates a little dimple on the water's surface,
                    >and when they move their legs, the dimple moves, creating drag in the
                    >water under the surface.

                    Last summer I ran across about six of these insects in a small pool of
                    stagnant water. For a while, I was fascinated by their ability to scoot on
                    top of the water. But soon I discovered an even more fascinating thing.
                    They would alternate taking turns vibrating their legs and sending out high
                    frequency ripples on the water surface. No doubt the others could sense
                    this. Perhaps this is how they communicate? Maybe they are even able to
                    determine the location of each other by the distinctive interference
                    patterns their multiple legs generated? I sat there for a long time and
                    didn't even notice I was being eaten alive by mosquitos.

                    Somewhat off topic, but we have discussed communication among beam critters
                    before, and this could be another form of that.

                    Scott
                  • keithwwyse
                    Turpentine (do you have that where you are - used for thinning oil based paints and organic solvent)is a very light oily substance that may work, but is not
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 3, 2001
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                      Turpentine (do you have that where you are - used for thinning oil based
                      paints and organic solvent)is a very light oily substance that may work, but
                      is not environmentally friendly.
                      The best env. friendly idea I could think of was olive oil, but this would
                      need replacing every so often, to keep the good properties, and is a bit
                      more heavy.
                      I'd thought of this with the feathers idea in mind, but it could work with
                      most any structure.
                      These repel water. Try putting some olive oil on your hands then holding
                      some water drops.

                      Let us know if it works out.
                      Keith
                      "Another bright idea from the people who brought you
                      beeeeEEEER milkshakes!"
                      Confidence (Craig Ferguson); Red Dwarf

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: NuLynx@... [mailto:NuLynx@...]
                      Sent: 03 January 2001 18:54
                      To: beam@egroups.com
                      Subject: [beam] Re: Water Strider stuff


                      --- In beam@egroups.com, "Justin Fisher" <jaf60@c...> wrote:

                      > Regarding what to use for legs (feathers etc), do duck and
                      > other waterfowl feathers also get waterlogged in a matter of minutes?
                      > Perhaps go down to the local party make-up / wig / mask shop and look
                      > at their range of enormous fake eyelashes.

                      Yeah, a lot of flies for fly fishing are made from duck and other waterfowl
                      feathers. The spray you can get for fly fishing helps, but like I said, it
                      only works for a
                      couple of minutes. One idea may be to go to your local department store
                      (Walmart, K-Mart, etc) and look in the camping section. You can buy a
                      silicone spray that
                      is used for waterproofing boots and tents. This stuff may hold up better
                      than anything else. Another idea might be to get some clear laquer-type
                      spray paint and
                      lightly mist the feathers. I guess anything that would dry with a light
                      weight "plastic" coating may waterproof them enough. I know the silicone
                      camping spray
                      works great on boots and canvas, so that might be just the ticket.

                      Brad


                      Nulynx@...


                      -----------------



                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      beam-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    • Thunderbolt
                      ... ... If I remember my nature videos correctly, those specific insects used the vibrations they create as sonar for obstacle avoidance. ... =====
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 3, 2001
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                        --- Scott Burns <s-burns@...> wrote:
                        <snip>
                        > But soon I discovered an even more
                        > fascinating thing.
                        > They would alternate taking turns vibrating their
                        > legs and sending out high
                        > frequency ripples on the water surface. No doubt the
                        > others could sense
                        > this. Perhaps this is how they communicate? Maybe
                        > they are even able to
                        > determine the location of each other by the
                        > distinctive interference
                        > patterns their multiple legs generated? I sat there
                        > for a long time and
                        > didn't even notice I was being eaten alive by
                        > mosquitos.

                        If I remember my nature videos correctly, those
                        specific insects used the vibrations they create as
                        sonar for obstacle avoidance.


                        > Somewhat off topic, but we have discussed
                        > communication among beam critters
                        > before, and this could be another form of that.
                        >
                        > Scott

                        =====
                        From,
                        Ryan Freckleton

                        Alias:Thunderbolt16

                        "This software is a pervasive shed."

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