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dc-dc converters

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  • e.
    hi, i have a good idea. if i can get some help, then i can make it work and then share it with you. i was thinking, i you could boost voltage while lowering
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 31, 2000
      hi, i have a good idea. if i can get some help, then i can make it
      work and then share it with you. i was thinking, i you could boost
      voltage while lowering current or vise versa then we could solve a
      common problem. so does anyone on this list know anything about dc-dc
      converters? if so, how simple can they get? if someone copuld find or
      invent a simple dc-dc converter that would boost voltage while
      lowering current, then you would be doing the beam community a great
      thing indeed. regards, e.
    • Wilf Rigter
      Sorry e. No can do: conservation of energy and all that. The input power of a dc/dc converter must alway be greater than the output power. Since power is the
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 31, 2000
        Sorry e.

        No can do: conservation of energy and all that.
        The input power of a dc/dc converter must alway be greater than the
        output power. Since power is the product of voltage and current, it
        means that if the output voltage is greater than the input voltage
        then the input current must be proportionally greater than the output
        current.

        wilf


        --- In beam@egroups.com, "e. " <quilter@w...> wrote:
        > hi, i have a good idea. if i can get some help, then i can make it
        > work and then share it with you. i was thinking, i you could boost
        > voltage while lowering current or vise versa then we could solve a
        > common problem. so anyone on this list know anything about dc-dc
        > converters? if so, how simple can they get? if you could find or
        > invent a simple dc-dc converter that would boost voltage while
        > lowering current, then you would be doing the beam community a
        > great thing indeed.
        >
        > regards, e.
      • Chuck Britton
        Commercial dc-dc converters ARE available. The ones I ve seen work in the few amp range with voltages from about 5 up to 24 or so. They usually use an
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 31, 2000
          Commercial dc-dc converters ARE available. The ones I've seen work in
          the 'few amp' range with voltages from about 5 up to 24 or so. They
          usually use an oscillator followed by the required (high frequency)
          transformer in what amounts to a switching power supply. They are up
          to 90 - 95% efficient.

          Getting such a scheme to work at BEAMish voltages and photocell
          currents would indeed be neat (but NOT impossible - I suspect that
          Wilf might have misread your up/down, voltage/current comments?)


          At 11:39 PM +0000 12/31/00, Wilf Rigter, you wrote about [beam] Re:
          dc-dc converters:


          >Sorry e.
          >
          >No can do: conservation of energy and all that.
          >The input power of a dc/dc converter must alway be greater than the
          >output power. Since power is the product of voltage and current, it
          >means that if the output voltage is greater than the input voltage
          >then the input current must be proportionally greater than the output
          >current.
          >
          >wilf
          >
          >
          >--- In beam@egroups.com, "e. " <quilter@w...> wrote:
          > > hi, i have a good idea. if i can get some help, then i can make it
          > > work and then share it with you. i was thinking, i you could boost
          > > voltage while lowering current or vise versa then we could solve a
          > > common problem.

          -. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-
          \ / \ / \ N / \ C / \ S / \ S / \ M / \ / \ /
          `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-'
          Chuck Britton Education is what is left when
          britton@... you have forgotten everything
          North Carolina School of Science & Math you learned in school.
          (919) 286-3366 x224 Albert Einstein, 1936
        • Wilf Rigter
          Oops! Maybe I missed the question, but still the conservation statement hold true and has to be taken into account when calculating any perceived increase in
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 31, 2000
            Oops! Maybe I missed the question, but still the conservation
            statement hold true and has to be taken into account when calculating
            any perceived increase in effciciency and performance.

            There have been a number of discussions on this list on voltage
            doubling circuits, mostly using capacitive charge pumps and common
            beam components. Some of these were simple to build, understand and
            quite efficient (<80%) Check the egroup archive for more details.
            Magnetic switchers are certainly attractive but tend to be more
            complex.

            wilf

            --- In beam@egroups.com, Chuck Britton <cvbritton@t...> wrote:
            > Commercial dc-dc converters ARE available. The ones I've seen work
            in
            > the 'few amp' range with voltages from about 5 up to 24 or so. They
            > usually use an oscillator followed by the required (high frequency)
            > transformer in what amounts to a switching power supply. They are up
            > to 90 - 95% efficient.
            >
            > Getting such a scheme to work at BEAMish voltages and photocell
            > currents would indeed be neat (but NOT impossible - I suspect that
            > Wilf might have misread your up/down, voltage/current comments?)
            >
            >
            > At 11:39 PM +0000 12/31/00, Wilf Rigter, you wrote about [beam]
            Re:
            > dc-dc converters:
            >
            >
            > >Sorry e.
            > >
            > >No can do: conservation of energy and all that.
            > >The input power of a dc/dc converter must alway be greater than the
            > >output power. Since power is the product of voltage and current, it
            > >means that if the output voltage is greater than the input voltage
            > >then the input current must be proportionally greater than the
            output
            > >current.
            > >
            > >wilf
            > >
            > >
            > >--- In beam@egroups.com, "e. " <quilter@w...> wrote:
            > > > hi, i have a good idea. if i can get some help, then i can make
            it
            > > > work and then share it with you. i was thinking, i you could
            boost
            > > > voltage while lowering current or vise versa then we could
            solve a
            > > > common problem.
            >
            > -. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-.
            .-. .-
            > \ / \ / \ N / \ C / \ S / \ S / \ M / \ /
            \ /
            > `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-'
            `-'
            > Chuck Britton Education is
            what is left when
            > britton@n... you have forgotten
            everything
            > North Carolina School of Science & Math you learned in
            school.
            > (919) 286-3366 x224 Albert
            Einstein, 1936
          • e.
            hello there, thanks for the quick responses. i checked the archives and came up with a thread that discusses a circuit that will work perfectly!
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 31, 2000
              hello there, thanks for the quick responses. i checked the archives
              and came up with a thread that discusses a circuit that will work
              perfectly! http://www.egroups.com/message/beam/7059 is the address.
              so, justin? did it work? what did you come up with when playing
              around with it? i think this should work quite well.
              untill(?) next time, e.


              --- In beam@egroups.com, "Wilf Rigter" <wilf.rigter@p...> wrote:
              > Oops! Maybe I missed the question, but still the conservation
              > statement hold true and has to be taken into account when
              calculating
              > any perceived increase in effciciency and performance.
              >
              > There have been a number of discussions on this list on voltage
              > doubling circuits, mostly using capacitive charge pumps and common
              > beam components. Some of these were simple to build, understand and
              > quite efficient (<80%) Check the egroup archive for more details.
              > Magnetic switchers are certainly attractive but tend to be more
              > complex.
              >
              > wilf
              >
              > --- In beam@egroups.com, Chuck Britton <cvbritton@t...> wrote:
              > > Commercial dc-dc converters ARE available. The ones I've seen
              work
              > in
              > > the 'few amp' range with voltages from about 5 up to 24 or so.
              They
              > > usually use an oscillator followed by the required (high
              frequency)
              > > transformer in what amounts to a switching power supply. They are
              up
              > > to 90 - 95% efficient.
              > >
              > > Getting such a scheme to work at BEAMish voltages and photocell
              > > currents would indeed be neat (but NOT impossible - I suspect
              that
              > > Wilf might have misread your up/down, voltage/current comments?)
              > >
              > >
              > > At 11:39 PM +0000 12/31/00, Wilf Rigter, you wrote about [beam]
              > Re:
              > > dc-dc converters:
              > >
              > >
              > > >Sorry e.
              > > >
              > > >No can do: conservation of energy and all that.
              > > >The input power of a dc/dc converter must alway be greater than
              the
              > > >output power. Since power is the product of voltage and current,
              it
              > > >means that if the output voltage is greater than the input
              voltage
              > > >then the input current must be proportionally greater than the
              > output
              > > >current.
              > > >
              > > >wilf
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >--- In beam@egroups.com, "e. " <quilter@w...> wrote:
              > > > > hi, i have a good idea. if i can get some help, then i can
              make
              > it
              > > > > work and then share it with you. i was thinking, i you could
              > boost
              > > > > voltage while lowering current or vise versa then we could
              > solve a
              > > > > common problem.
              > >
              > > -. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-.
              > .-. .-
              > > \ / \ / \ N / \ C / \ S / \ S / \ M /
              \ /
              > \ /
              > > `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-
              '
              > `-'
              > > Chuck Britton Education is
              > what is left when
              > > britton@n... you have forgotten
              > everything
              > > North Carolina School of Science & Math you learned
              in
              > school.
              > > (919) 286-3366 x224 Albert
              > Einstein, 1936
            • Justin Fisher
              ... Don t know yet - I ve been doing other things, and slowly accumulating the parts in the meantime (most of them are oddballish things that I don t just have
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 1, 2001
                > so, justin? did it work?

                Don't know yet - I've been doing other things, and slowly accumulating
                the parts in the meantime (most of them are oddballish things that I
                don't just have lying around). Maybe in a month or so... :-)

                Not the answer you were after I know :-)
                Seeya
                Justin
              • Wilf Rigter
                I read the question as: Is it possible to use a dc/dc converter as a way to boost energy. I replied : Not! Oops! I should have read the intent of question
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 1, 2001
                  I read the question as:

                  Is it possible to use a dc/dc converter as a way to boost energy.

                  I replied : "Not!"

                  Oops! I should have read the intent of question as: dc/dc conversion
                  to increase output voltage and while decreasing the average output
                  current (implying that energy in/out are the same).

                  My mistake but also an oportunity to revisit some basic assumptions:

                  The general subject of power conversion is what solar powered beam is
                  all about: conversion of low grade input power into high grade useful
                  work. For example, the 1-2ma output of a solar cell may not be enough
                  to move a pager motor but by charging a cap over a period of time and
                  then discharge the stored energy at a high rate ie 20-50ma into a
                  motor, you are converting low grade power into a form of useful
                  mechanical work. So "total energy in" = "total enegy out", no
                  surprise there, but inventing new efficient methods of converting
                  "energy in" to "useful work" that is the biggest challenge.

                  Hope that helps.

                  wilf

                  --- In beam@egroups.com, "Chris Jones" <cwj_ca@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Wilf Rigter
                  > Sorry e.
                  > if the output voltage is greater than the input voltage
                  > then the input current must be proportionally greater than the
                  output
                  > current.
                  > --- In beam@egroups.com, "e. " <quilter@w...> wrote:
                  > if you could find or
                  > > invent a simple dc-dc converter that would boost voltage while
                  > > lowering current
                  >
                  > Now, I begin by saying "I know nothing", but aren't you both saying
                  exactly the same thing?
                • Chris Jones
                  ... From: Wilf Rigter Sorry e. if the output voltage is greater than the input voltage then the input current must be proportionally greater than the output
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 1, 2001
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sorry e.
                    if the output voltage is greater than the input voltage
                    then the input current must be proportionally greater than the output
                    current.
                    --- In beam@egroups.com, "e. " <quilter@w...> wrote:
                     if you could find or
                    > invent a simple dc-dc converter that would boost voltage while
                    > lowering current
                     
                    Now, I begin by saying "I know nothing", but aren't you both saying exactly the same thing?
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