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Re: Tilden's cleaning robots ? (newbie)

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  • Justin Fisher
    ... You re forgeting the Magic of Advertising :-) I imagine those things exist, and they ll do what he says they do - but chances are they ll do it so poorly
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 2, 2000
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      > I don't believe they exist.

      You're forgeting the Magic of Advertising :-)
      I imagine those things exist, and they'll do what he says they do -
      but chances are they'll do it so poorly and patchily that you'll
      still have to clean the windows and mow the lawns :-)

      > And with all the trouble everyone has
      > trying to make a walker not fall over, I don't believe you "can cut
      > one in half with a chain saw and it still crawls away". JohnS.

      That's not so incredible - it doesn't take many moving parts to get
      undirected locomation, and provided that the psycho with the chainsaw
      stays put, and part of the bot is still active, then it doesn't
      matter which random direction (or circles) the part accidentally
      knocks itself, it's still "away" from the chainsaw. :-)
      Even a fallen-over walker can manage it.

      The question is not "Can it do it?", but "Can it do it well?". As
      Tilden points out, robots have been doing things poorly for years :)
    • Bruce Robinson
      ... I ve seen a couple of B & W photos of Tilden s window cleaner at work; one of the photos was a slide shown at a lecture, and his comment was that the
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 2, 2000
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        John Simmons wrote:
        >
        > I don't believe they exist. And with all the trouble everyone
        > has trying to make a walker not fall over, I don't believe you
        > "can cut one in half with a chain saw and it still crawls away".

        I've seen a couple of B & W photos of Tilden's window cleaner at work;
        one of the photos was a slide shown at a lecture, and his comment was
        that the cleaning job was "good enough for a bachelor". In other words,
        it kept the center area of his balcony door clean, but a lot of the dirt
        just got transferred to the edges.

        If you can forgive the dirt around the edges, then Tilden's simple
        "cleaner" robots have a lot going for them. There are sophisticated
        robot lawn mowers available that will cut a modest lawn in about 2
        hours. When you read the literature, you find that these machines are
        not supposed to be run unattended -- in other words, hang around and
        what the machine cut grass. How exciting. A Tilden-style grass cutter
        might take a week to cut the grass, and the edges would get kind of
        overgrown, but you wouldn't have to be out there watching it all the
        time.

        As for the mangled walker, when I was trying to tune my 3-motor walker
        with unbalanced bridges and no stops, it frequently fell over, but the
        darn thing kept moving -- and in the same direction, more or less. Even
        when a leg jammed up completely, it still managed to struggle along.

        I think the secrets to success with this type of machine are:
        - Stay away from it.
        - Give it time.
        - Be satisfied with an 80% job.

        Bruce
      • Dave
        ... I know he does do some robot cleaning in a dishwasher - I ve seen that much in person. As for the other devices, they re (for the most part) hypothetical
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 2, 2000
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          At 08:29 AM 12/2/2000, Vandemoortele wrote:

          >On microcore.dk there's a link to an interview of Tilden. In the
          >interview he speaks of his robtos: some law the mawn, some clean the
          >floor, others the windows and he puts them in the dishwasher once a
          >year to clean them.
          >Being a bachelor myself I'd be really interested in these designs,
          >how come I haven't found a single word on them on the net ? Does
          >anyone know how to build these ? (Looks rather difficult if you ask
          >me.)


          I know he does do some robot cleaning in a dishwasher - I've seen that much
          in person. As for the other devices, they're (for the most part)
          hypothetical extensions of his existing devices. His "SolarSpinner" USED to
          sping up and down windows with a little brush (long since retired). A
          lawnbot is the most realistic target in the near future.

          Regards,
          Dave
        • R. Martin Keen
          I m working on some very practical cleaning robots. They only dust the floor, but that s good enough. One is a photophobic robot based on the PiTronics
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 3, 2000
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            I'm working on some very practical cleaning robots. They only dust the
            floor, but that's good enough. One is a photophobic robot based on the
            PiTronics watch-powered photovore, and the excellent
            pulse-length-modulating circuit. It drags a dusting cloth around, and
            it should be running next month.

            The other bot utilizes a dustbuster picked up at a yard sale. Its the
            perfect platform. Many people have them, and they come with their own
            rechargeable power source. It will have a simple wall following circuit
            installed, but I might make it also clean floor and carpets, not just
            corners. The high power consumption and noise will keep me from running
            it none stop, unlike the former bot.

            -Martin


            On Sat, 02 Dec 2000 18:00:51 -0800 Bruce Robinson
            <Bruce_Robinson@...> writes:
            > John Simmons wrote:
            > >
            > > I don't believe they exist. And with all the trouble everyone
            > > has trying to make a walker not fall over, I don't believe you
            > > "can cut one in half with a chain saw and it still crawls away".
            >
            > I've seen a couple of B & W photos of Tilden's window cleaner at
            > work;
            > one of the photos was a slide shown at a lecture, and his comment
            > was
            > that the cleaning job was "good enough for a bachelor". In other
            > words,
            > it kept the center area of his balcony door clean, but a lot of the
            > dirt
            > just got transferred to the edges.
            >
            > If you can forgive the dirt around the edges, then Tilden's simple
            > "cleaner" robots have a lot going for them. There are sophisticated
            > robot lawn mowers available that will cut a modest lawn in about 2
            > hours. When you read the literature, you find that these machines
            > are
            > not supposed to be run unattended -- in other words, hang around and
            > what the machine cut grass. How exciting. A Tilden-style grass
            > cutter
            > might take a week to cut the grass, and the edges would get kind of
            > overgrown, but you wouldn't have to be out there watching it all the
            > time.
            >
            > As for the mangled walker, when I was trying to tune my 3-motor
            > walker
            > with unbalanced bridges and no stops, it frequently fell over, but
            > the
            > darn thing kept moving -- and in the same direction, more or less.
            > Even
            > when a leg jammed up completely, it still managed to struggle along.
            >
            > I think the secrets to success with this type of machine are:
            > - Stay away from it.
            > - Give it time.
            > - Be satisfied with an 80% job.
            >
            > Bruce


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          • keithwwyse
            Hi. Quick intros, I m a newbie to this list also, but I am an electronics engineer ( 96), and am very interested in all forms of AI and Artificial Life, so I m
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 3, 2000
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              Hi. Quick intros, I'm a newbie to this list also, but I am an electronics
              engineer ('96), and am very interested in all forms of AI and Artificial
              Life, so I'm absorbed with BEAM just now. Also I am a bachelor too and live
              alone. Guess what, I want cleaning robots too, so this is a hot subject for
              me.
              Also IMHO trying get these robots to do such tasks effectively is the best
              direction to advance the design methods, as the general ideas can be applied
              widely. It's also FUN!
              Not built a robot yet, but looking forward to it in the new year.
              I like what has been posted so far, including the duster idea. My idea for
              cleaning carpets was to mimic those carpet sweepers you get, but a little
              smaller, so that it is unobtrusive. Of course you could just whack a
              circuit, solar cells, and a few motors on one of these and let it rip (not
              the carpet I hope).
              But I was thinking more of a little cylindrical paddle brush on a walker
              which flicks the dirt up an inverted V into a hopper. User could check it
              every day and clean out the hopper, or eventually a 'homing' circuit could
              make it return to a site where it would trigger another BEAM circuit which
              empties the hopper, then kicks it out again.
              This IR diode discussion looks promising for the homing side.

              Keith Wyse

              PS Emails to my address welcome, I also like homebrew (mead), self
              sufficiency, woodworking, gentle cycle touring & camping, gardening, and
              cooking. All in all very busy. Don't watch TV unless it's for these.


              -----Original Message-----
              From: R. Martin Keen [mailto:keenerd@...]
              Sent: 03 December 2000 12:57
              To: beam@egroups.com
              Subject: [beam] Tilden's cleaning robots ? (newbie)


              I'm working on some very practical cleaning robots. They only dust the
              floor, but that's good enough. One is a photophobic robot based on the
              PiTronics watch-powered photovore, and the excellent
              pulse-length-modulating circuit. It drags a dusting cloth around, and
              it should be running next month.

              The other bot utilizes a dustbuster picked up at a yard sale. Its the
              perfect platform. Many people have them, and they come with their own
              rechargeable power source. It will have a simple wall following circuit
              installed, but I might make it also clean floor and carpets, not just
              corners. The high power consumption and noise will keep me from running
              it none stop, unlike the former bot.

              -Martin


              On Sat, 02 Dec 2000 18:00:51 -0800 Bruce Robinson
              <Bruce_Robinson@...> writes:
              > John Simmons wrote:
              > >
              > > I don't believe they exist. And with all the trouble everyone
              > > has trying to make a walker not fall over, I don't believe you
              > > "can cut one in half with a chain saw and it still crawls away".
              >
              > I've seen a couple of B & W photos of Tilden's window cleaner at
              > work;
              > one of the photos was a slide shown at a lecture, and his comment
              > was
              > that the cleaning job was "good enough for a bachelor". In other
              > words,
              > it kept the center area of his balcony door clean, but a lot of the
              > dirt
              > just got transferred to the edges.
              >
              > If you can forgive the dirt around the edges, then Tilden's simple
              > "cleaner" robots have a lot going for them. There are sophisticated
              > robot lawn mowers available that will cut a modest lawn in about 2
              > hours. When you read the literature, you find that these machines
              > are
              > not supposed to be run unattended -- in other words, hang around and
              > what the machine cut grass. How exciting. A Tilden-style grass
              > cutter
              > might take a week to cut the grass, and the edges would get kind of
              > overgrown, but you wouldn't have to be out there watching it all the
              > time.
              >
              > As for the mangled walker, when I was trying to tune my 3-motor
              > walker
              > with unbalanced bridges and no stops, it frequently fell over, but
              > the
              > darn thing kept moving -- and in the same direction, more or less.
              > Even
              > when a leg jammed up completely, it still managed to struggle along.
              >
              > I think the secrets to success with this type of machine are:
              > - Stay away from it.
              > - Give it time.
              > - Be satisfied with an 80% job.
              >
              > Bruce


              ________________________________________________________________
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            • Patrick Yeon
              ... Walk properly, no, but it COULD still walk. In a related story, Tilden states in one of his papers that some robots have achieved motion with 90% of the
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 3, 2000
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                At 04:38 PM 12/02/2000 -0600, John Simmons wrote:
                I don't believe they exist. And with all the trouble everyone has trying to
                make a walker not fall over, I don't believe you "can cut one in half with a
                chain saw and it still crawls away". JohnS.

                Walk properly, no, but it COULD still walk. In a related story, Tilden states in one of his papers that some robots have achieved motion with "90% of the robot destroyed".

                Iphotope a.k.a Patrick Yeon
              • Verne & Catherine Rambaud
                if you make it small enough it could get those hard to reach spots so it would be practical. ... From: R. Martin Keen To: beam@egroups.com
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 3, 2000
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                  if you make it small enough it could get those hard to reach spots so it
                  would be practical.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: R. Martin Keen <keenerd@...>
                  To: beam@egroups.com <beam@egroups.com>
                  Date: Sunday, December 03, 2000 6:07 AM
                  Subject: [beam] Tilden's cleaning robots ? (newbie)


                  >I'm working on some very practical cleaning robots. They only dust the
                  >floor, but that's good enough. One is a photophobic robot based on the
                  >PiTronics watch-powered photovore, and the excellent
                  >pulse-length-modulating circuit. It drags a dusting cloth around, and
                  >it should be running next month.
                  >
                  >The other bot utilizes a dustbuster picked up at a yard sale. Its the
                  >perfect platform. Many people have them, and they come with their own
                  >rechargeable power source. It will have a simple wall following circuit
                  >installed, but I might make it also clean floor and carpets, not just
                  >corners. The high power consumption and noise will keep me from running
                  >it none stop, unlike the former bot.
                  >
                  >-Martin
                  >
                  >
                  >On Sat, 02 Dec 2000 18:00:51 -0800 Bruce Robinson
                  ><Bruce_Robinson@...> writes:
                  >> John Simmons wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> > I don't believe they exist. And with all the trouble everyone
                  >> > has trying to make a walker not fall over, I don't believe you
                  >> > "can cut one in half with a chain saw and it still crawls away".
                  >>
                  >> I've seen a couple of B & W photos of Tilden's window cleaner at
                  >> work;
                  >> one of the photos was a slide shown at a lecture, and his comment
                  >> was
                  >> that the cleaning job was "good enough for a bachelor". In other
                  >> words,
                  >> it kept the center area of his balcony door clean, but a lot of the
                  >> dirt
                  >> just got transferred to the edges.
                  >>
                  >> If you can forgive the dirt around the edges, then Tilden's simple
                  >> "cleaner" robots have a lot going for them. There are sophisticated
                  >> robot lawn mowers available that will cut a modest lawn in about 2
                  >> hours. When you read the literature, you find that these machines
                  >> are
                  >> not supposed to be run unattended -- in other words, hang around and
                  >> what the machine cut grass. How exciting. A Tilden-style grass
                  >> cutter
                  >> might take a week to cut the grass, and the edges would get kind of
                  >> overgrown, but you wouldn't have to be out there watching it all the
                  >> time.
                  >>
                  >> As for the mangled walker, when I was trying to tune my 3-motor
                  >> walker
                  >> with unbalanced bridges and no stops, it frequently fell over, but
                  >> the
                  >> darn thing kept moving -- and in the same direction, more or less.
                  >> Even
                  >> when a leg jammed up completely, it still managed to struggle along.
                  >>
                  >> I think the secrets to success with this type of machine are:
                  >> - Stay away from it.
                  >> - Give it time.
                  >> - Be satisfied with an 80% job.
                  >>
                  >> Bruce
                  >
                  >
                  >________________________________________________________________
                  >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                  >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                  >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                  >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
                  >
                  >
                  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  >beam-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
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