Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

AW: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

Expand Messages
  • Simon Brunke
    Hello Wilf, thx very much! Its an honor for me to have an answer from one of the BEAM Gurus :-) Now that I use a germanium diode, the Cap gets full. Today I ll
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 2, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Nachricht
      Hello Wilf,
       
      thx very much! Its an honor for me to have an answer from one of the BEAM Gurus :-)
       
      Now that I use a germanium diode, the Cap gets full. Today I'll see if I can change the turnon behavior to Hamburg conditions and the great Idea with the Cap across the SC^^
      then I will give you a Partlist and perhaps some pictures...
       
      Thanks verry much so far,
       
      Simon 
       
       
      -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
      Von: beam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beam@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von wrigter
      Gesendet: Samstag, 29. Mai 2010 20:00
      An: beam@yahoogroups.com
      Betreff: Re: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

       

      Hi Simon,

      Thanks for building the circuit. This was one of my earliest
      beam circuits. It is not perfect but it can tuned for better
      performance.

      The basic objective of the circuit was to stabilize the
      brightness of LED flashers using a voltage regulator whose
      output voltage matches the forward voltage of the flasher
      LEDs. The original circuit did not use pummer type flashers
      which generally use a charge pump to generate a sawtooth
      driving voltage across the flaser LED.

      Let me describe the theory of operation and then suggest
      some modifications you can try.

      The solar charger section simply consists of the super cap,
      the solar cell (SC) and the 1N34a Ge diode. I recommend
      using the a Ge diode because the forward voltage drop is
      very small (50mV) when the SC charging current is low i.e.
      near the end of charge. I understand you used a Si diode
      which has a 0.5V drop at low current and which would explain
      the lower cap voltage at end of change. The 2V regulator is
      a low drop out type consisting of a series pass PNP
      transistor (Q1) whose base current is supplied by an NPN
      transistor Q2. The LED is used as a voltage reference which
      turns on the second NPN transistor Q3 that diverts base
      current from the first NPN Q2 base and holds the regulator
      output voltage at approximately 2V. The regulator turns on
      when the solar cell output voltage drops below the capacitor
      voltage. Then the base of Q2 receives base current through
      the series connected 100K base resistor (R1)and the 100K
      resistor (R2) in parallel with the SC. This happens after
      the Q2 base voltage rises approximately 0.5V positive with
      respect to the Q2 emitter. The 0.1uF cap is used to suppress
      spurious oscillation of the regulator.

      In the second solar regulator circuit R2 is not used and
      instead the SC "dark" leakage current provides the initial
      Q2 base current which is followed by positive feedback
      current supplied through the 10K resistor connected to the
      regulator output. That circuit snaps on and once latched on
      will not turn off until the super cap is nearly discharged
      or the SC is exposed to bright light. Note that when super
      cap voltage drops below 2.1V, the regulator output comes out
      of regulation while its supply current rises rapidly and the
      super cap will be discharged relatively quickly. This
      behaviour is typical of many LDO regulator circuits.

      The load connected to the 2V regulator is usually one or
      more cmos flasher circuits that use flasher LEDs without
      series resistors. These flasher LEDs should be the same type
      as the voltage reference LED in the regulator. If charge
      pump flashers are used, a voltage reference LED should be
      selected to ensure that the flasher LEDs are off between
      flashes to ensure high efficiency.

      Changing the turn on / off thresholds:

      The second solar charger circuit using the 10K positive
      feedback resistor should have a much darker turn on
      threshold.

      The 10K resistor can be adjusted to a higher value to change
      the turn off threshold.

      A 10-100uF cap across the SC can help the circuit ride
      through cloud shadows.

      The 10K feedback resistor can be connected to the base of Q2
      instead of the SC negative terminal. With that modification,
      try higher values instead of 10K.

      Perhaps you can describe your specific application (type of
      LEDs, flashers, duration of flashing etc, and we can discuss
      alternative solutions.

      Regards

      Wilf

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@...>
      To: <beam@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
      Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:15:44 +0200

      >Hi There,
      >
      >i have some problems with the PS-Flasher from Wilf. The one
      >with the solar regulator circuit...
      >
      >The first problem I have is, that the 1f capacitor stops
      >loading at 3,96 V (solar cell in full light about 4,5 V).
      >
      >The second problem is, that its switching too early. In
      >Hamburg it switches when a big clowd covers the sun and
      >then it looses current :-(. I would like to have a Flasher
      >that flashes only in absolute darkness.
      >
      >The third problem is, that I would like to use the
      >BC-Transistors 337 and 327 (cause I have them) but when I
      >use them, the reference LED lights up. When I use 3904 and
      >3906 (like now) it doesn't happen.
      >
      >
      >I've checked the Pin-Layout and every connection about 100
      >times. I use a 4184 Diode instead of germanium. I guess
      >that could cause the problem with 1F capacitor thats not
      >full (bigger voltage drop) ?!?
      >
      >
      >Yesterday I recognized a diffrence between the solar
      >regulator in the PS-Flasher scematics and the ones in the
      >SIMD1 thread:
      >
      >
      >
      >What about the 10K resistor (100K between solar cell) ?
      >
      >Do I have to connect the unused inputs of the HC14 to
      >ground ? What happens if not ?
      >
      >What kind of LED's should i use (V, mA) ?
      >
      >
      >The biggest problem is, that it turns on, when its not
      >absolutely dark. If the Flasher would turn on in absolute
      >darkness, the 5 hours blinking time would be ok...
      >
      >..
      >
      >THX so far!
      >
      >Greetings from cloudy Hamburg,
      >
      >Freeformjunky
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
      >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]

    • Simon Brunke
      Hi Wilf, I wanted to build a solar powered Flasher with HC14 and dark turnon. At first I freeformed the HC14 Flasher with the single transistor dark turnon
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 3, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Wilf,

        I wanted to build a solar powered Flasher with HC14 and dark turnon. At first I freeformed the HC14 Flasher with the single transistor dark turnon circuit (http://grant.solarbotics.net/images/Circuits/LO_DarkON.gif).
        Then I breadboarded your PS Flasher with the same Parts and values as in the schematics except:

        4V Solar Cell
        GERMANIUM-DIODE AA112 T
        2x Low current LEDs (Yellow)
        9,1 Mohm timing resistor

        I grounded the inputs that were not used (1,3,5,11 and 13)

        With 9,1 M resistor it blinks once every 3 seconds

        Yesterday I connected a 10K resistor from minus of the solar cell to the collector of q1. There was no big difference so I used a bigger Value (100K), then 3M and then NO resistor. But even with no resistor the circuit turned on very early. It started to blink, when the SC had about 3V and the Cap 4V.

        I would like to have the Solar Regulator to turn on when the SC got about 0.5V or less. Is this possible ?

        And is it true that the 1F Cap gets full in about 10 minutes with 4V/35ma ?

        Today I’ll try to connect the resistor to the base of q2.

        Did some photos too but I have problems with my Yahoo-Account…its not there anymore :-/


        Simon
        -------- Original-Nachricht --------
        > Datum: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 11:06:11 +0200
        > Von: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@...>
        > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
        > Betreff: AW: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

        > Hello Wilf,
        >
        > thx very much! Its an honor for me to have an answer from one of the
        > BEAM Gurus :-)
        >
        > Now that I use a germanium diode, the Cap gets full. Today I'll see if I
        > can change the turnon behavior to Hamburg conditions and the great Idea
        > with the Cap across the SC^^
        > then I will give you a Partlist and perhaps some pictures...
        >
        > Thanks verry much so far,
        >
        > Simon
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
        > Von: beam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beam@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von
        > wrigter
        > Gesendet: Samstag, 29. Mai 2010 20:00
        > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
        > Betreff: Re: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi Simon,
        >
        > Thanks for building the circuit. This was one of my earliest
        > beam circuits. It is not perfect but it can tuned for better
        > performance.
        >
        > The basic objective of the circuit was to stabilize the
        > brightness of LED flashers using a voltage regulator whose
        > output voltage matches the forward voltage of the flasher
        > LEDs. The original circuit did not use pummer type flashers
        > which generally use a charge pump to generate a sawtooth
        > driving voltage across the flaser LED.
        >
        > Let me describe the theory of operation and then suggest
        > some modifications you can try.
        >
        > The solar charger section simply consists of the super cap,
        > the solar cell (SC) and the 1N34a Ge diode. I recommend
        > using the a Ge diode because the forward voltage drop is
        > very small (50mV) when the SC charging current is low i.e.
        > near the end of charge. I understand you used a Si diode
        > which has a 0.5V drop at low current and which would explain
        > the lower cap voltage at end of change. The 2V regulator is
        > a low drop out type consisting of a series pass PNP
        > transistor (Q1) whose base current is supplied by an NPN
        > transistor Q2. The LED is used as a voltage reference which
        > turns on the second NPN transistor Q3 that diverts base
        > current from the first NPN Q2 base and holds the regulator
        > output voltage at approximately 2V. The regulator turns on
        > when the solar cell output voltage drops below the capacitor
        > voltage. Then the base of Q2 receives base current through
        > the series connected 100K base resistor (R1)and the 100K
        > resistor (R2) in parallel with the SC. This happens after
        > the Q2 base voltage rises approximately 0.5V positive with
        > respect to the Q2 emitter. The 0.1uF cap is used to suppress
        > spurious oscillation of the regulator.
        >
        > In the second solar regulator circuit R2 is not used and
        > instead the SC "dark" leakage current provides the initial
        > Q2 base current which is followed by positive feedback
        > current supplied through the 10K resistor connected to the
        > regulator output. That circuit snaps on and once latched on
        > will not turn off until the super cap is nearly discharged
        > or the SC is exposed to bright light. Note that when super
        > cap voltage drops below 2.1V, the regulator output comes out
        > of regulation while its supply current rises rapidly and the
        > super cap will be discharged relatively quickly. This
        > behaviour is typical of many LDO regulator circuits.
        >
        > The load connected to the 2V regulator is usually one or
        > more cmos flasher circuits that use flasher LEDs without
        > series resistors. These flasher LEDs should be the same type
        > as the voltage reference LED in the regulator. If charge
        > pump flashers are used, a voltage reference LED should be
        > selected to ensure that the flasher LEDs are off between
        > flashes to ensure high efficiency.
        >
        > Changing the turn on / off thresholds:
        >
        > The second solar charger circuit using the 10K positive
        > feedback resistor should have a much darker turn on
        > threshold.
        >
        > The 10K resistor can be adjusted to a higher value to change
        > the turn off threshold.
        >
        > A 10-100uF cap across the SC can help the circuit ride
        > through cloud shadows.
        >
        > The 10K feedback resistor can be connected to the base of Q2
        > instead of the SC negative terminal. With that modification,
        > try higher values instead of 10K.
        >
        > Perhaps you can describe your specific application (type of
        > LEDs, flashers, duration of flashing etc, and we can discuss
        > alternative solutions.
        >
        > Regards
        >
        > Wilf
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@... <mailto:simonb23%40gmx.de> >
        > To: <beam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:beam%40yahoogroups.com> >
        > Subject: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
        > Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:15:44 +0200
        >
        > >Hi There,
        > >
        > >i have some problems with the PS-Flasher from Wilf. The one
        > >with the solar regulator circuit...
        > >
        > >The first problem I have is, that the 1f capacitor stops
        > >loading at 3,96 V (solar cell in full light about 4,5 V).
        > >
        > >The second problem is, that its switching too early. In
        > >Hamburg it switches when a big clowd covers the sun and
        > >then it looses current :-(. I would like to have a Flasher
        > >that flashes only in absolute darkness.
        > >
        > >The third problem is, that I would like to use the
        > >BC-Transistors 337 and 327 (cause I have them) but when I
        > >use them, the reference LED lights up. When I use 3904 and
        > >3906 (like now) it doesn't happen.
        > >
        > >
        > >I've checked the Pin-Layout and every connection about 100
        > >times. I use a 4184 Diode instead of germanium. I guess
        > >that could cause the problem with 1F capacitor thats not
        > >full (bigger voltage drop) ?!?
        > >
        > >
        > >Yesterday I recognized a diffrence between the solar
        > >regulator in the PS-Flasher scematics and the ones in the
        > >SIMD1 thread:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >What about the 10K resistor (100K between solar cell) ?
        > >
        > >Do I have to connect the unused inputs of the HC14 to
        > >ground ? What happens if not ?
        > >
        > >What kind of LED's should i use (V, mA) ?
        > >
        > >
        > >The biggest problem is, that it turns on, when its not
        > >absolutely dark. If the Flasher would turn on in absolute
        > >darkness, the 5 hours blinking time would be ok...
        > >
        > >..
        > >
        > >THX so far!
        > >
        > >Greetings from cloudy Hamburg,
        > >
        > >Freeformjunky
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
        > >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
        Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
      • Simon Brunke
        Halli Hallo, loaded up some pictures... HC14 flasher with one transistor dark activation (like the design and allways searching for solar cells like these
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 4, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Halli Hallo,

          loaded up some pictures...

          HC14 flasher with one transistor dark activation (like the design and allways searching for solar cells like these calculater cell!)

          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/hc14flasher01_ff_freeformjunky.jpg
          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/hc14flasher02_ff_freeformjunky.jpg
          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/hc14flasher03_ff_freeformjunky.jpg

          freeformed, scorpion shaped photopopper (theres a Mistake in there...just pops the left motor )-:

          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/popper01_ff_freeformjunky.jpg
          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/popper02_ff_freeformjunky.jpg

          Wilfs PS Flasher breadboarded

          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/psflasher01_bb_freeformjunky.jpg
          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/psflasher02_bb_freeformjunky.jpg
          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/psflasher03_bb_freeformjunky.jpg
          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/psflasher04_bb_freeformjunky.jpg

          freeformed ultra sonic distance measurement

          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/ultrasonic01_ff_freeformjunky.jpg
          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/ultrasonic02_ff_freeformjunky.jpg
          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/ultrasonic03_ff_freeformjunky.jpg
          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/ultrasonic04_ff_freeformjunky.jpg

          just a Motordriver

          www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/motordriver_ff_freeformjunky.jpg

          Greets,

          Simon
          -------- Original-Nachricht --------
          > Datum: Thu, 03 Jun 2010 13:21:25 +0200
          > Von: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@...>
          > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
          > Betreff: AW: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

          > Hi Wilf,
          >
          > I wanted to build a solar powered Flasher with HC14 and dark turnon. At
          > first I freeformed the HC14 Flasher with the single transistor dark turnon
          > circuit (http://grant.solarbotics.net/images/Circuits/LO_DarkON.gif).
          > Then I breadboarded your PS Flasher with the same Parts and values as in
          > the schematics except:
          >
          > 4V Solar Cell
          > GERMANIUM-DIODE AA112 T
          > 2x Low current LEDs (Yellow)
          > 9,1 Mohm timing resistor
          >
          > I grounded the inputs that were not used (1,3,5,11 and 13)
          >
          > With 9,1 M resistor it blinks once every 3 seconds
          >
          > Yesterday I connected a 10K resistor from minus of the solar cell to the
          > collector of q1. There was no big difference so I used a bigger Value
          > (100K), then 3M and then NO resistor. But even with no resistor the circuit
          > turned on very early. It started to blink, when the SC had about 3V and the Cap
          > 4V.
          >
          > I would like to have the Solar Regulator to turn on when the SC got about
          > 0.5V or less. Is this possible ?
          >
          > And is it true that the 1F Cap gets full in about 10 minutes with 4V/35ma
          > ?
          >
          > Today I’ll try to connect the resistor to the base of q2.
          >
          > Did some photos too but I have problems with my Yahoo-Account…its not
          > there anymore :-/
          >
          >
          > Simon
          > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
          > > Datum: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 11:06:11 +0200
          > > Von: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@...>
          > > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
          > > Betreff: AW: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
          >
          > > Hello Wilf,
          > >
          > > thx very much! Its an honor for me to have an answer from one of the
          > > BEAM Gurus :-)
          > >
          > > Now that I use a germanium diode, the Cap gets full. Today I'll see if I
          > > can change the turnon behavior to Hamburg conditions and the great Idea
          > > with the Cap across the SC^^
          > > then I will give you a Partlist and perhaps some pictures...
          > >
          > > Thanks verry much so far,
          > >
          > > Simon
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
          > > Von: beam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beam@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von
          > > wrigter
          > > Gesendet: Samstag, 29. Mai 2010 20:00
          > > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
          > > Betreff: Re: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi Simon,
          > >
          > > Thanks for building the circuit. This was one of my earliest
          > > beam circuits. It is not perfect but it can tuned for better
          > > performance.
          > >
          > > The basic objective of the circuit was to stabilize the
          > > brightness of LED flashers using a voltage regulator whose
          > > output voltage matches the forward voltage of the flasher
          > > LEDs. The original circuit did not use pummer type flashers
          > > which generally use a charge pump to generate a sawtooth
          > > driving voltage across the flaser LED.
          > >
          > > Let me describe the theory of operation and then suggest
          > > some modifications you can try.
          > >
          > > The solar charger section simply consists of the super cap,
          > > the solar cell (SC) and the 1N34a Ge diode. I recommend
          > > using the a Ge diode because the forward voltage drop is
          > > very small (50mV) when the SC charging current is low i.e.
          > > near the end of charge. I understand you used a Si diode
          > > which has a 0.5V drop at low current and which would explain
          > > the lower cap voltage at end of change. The 2V regulator is
          > > a low drop out type consisting of a series pass PNP
          > > transistor (Q1) whose base current is supplied by an NPN
          > > transistor Q2. The LED is used as a voltage reference which
          > > turns on the second NPN transistor Q3 that diverts base
          > > current from the first NPN Q2 base and holds the regulator
          > > output voltage at approximately 2V. The regulator turns on
          > > when the solar cell output voltage drops below the capacitor
          > > voltage. Then the base of Q2 receives base current through
          > > the series connected 100K base resistor (R1)and the 100K
          > > resistor (R2) in parallel with the SC. This happens after
          > > the Q2 base voltage rises approximately 0.5V positive with
          > > respect to the Q2 emitter. The 0.1uF cap is used to suppress
          > > spurious oscillation of the regulator.
          > >
          > > In the second solar regulator circuit R2 is not used and
          > > instead the SC "dark" leakage current provides the initial
          > > Q2 base current which is followed by positive feedback
          > > current supplied through the 10K resistor connected to the
          > > regulator output. That circuit snaps on and once latched on
          > > will not turn off until the super cap is nearly discharged
          > > or the SC is exposed to bright light. Note that when super
          > > cap voltage drops below 2.1V, the regulator output comes out
          > > of regulation while its supply current rises rapidly and the
          > > super cap will be discharged relatively quickly. This
          > > behaviour is typical of many LDO regulator circuits.
          > >
          > > The load connected to the 2V regulator is usually one or
          > > more cmos flasher circuits that use flasher LEDs without
          > > series resistors. These flasher LEDs should be the same type
          > > as the voltage reference LED in the regulator. If charge
          > > pump flashers are used, a voltage reference LED should be
          > > selected to ensure that the flasher LEDs are off between
          > > flashes to ensure high efficiency.
          > >
          > > Changing the turn on / off thresholds:
          > >
          > > The second solar charger circuit using the 10K positive
          > > feedback resistor should have a much darker turn on
          > > threshold.
          > >
          > > The 10K resistor can be adjusted to a higher value to change
          > > the turn off threshold.
          > >
          > > A 10-100uF cap across the SC can help the circuit ride
          > > through cloud shadows.
          > >
          > > The 10K feedback resistor can be connected to the base of Q2
          > > instead of the SC negative terminal. With that modification,
          > > try higher values instead of 10K.
          > >
          > > Perhaps you can describe your specific application (type of
          > > LEDs, flashers, duration of flashing etc, and we can discuss
          > > alternative solutions.
          > >
          > > Regards
          > >
          > > Wilf
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@... <mailto:simonb23%40gmx.de> >
          > > To: <beam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:beam%40yahoogroups.com> >
          > > Subject: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
          > > Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:15:44 +0200
          > >
          > > >Hi There,
          > > >
          > > >i have some problems with the PS-Flasher from Wilf. The one
          > > >with the solar regulator circuit...
          > > >
          > > >The first problem I have is, that the 1f capacitor stops
          > > >loading at 3,96 V (solar cell in full light about 4,5 V).
          > > >
          > > >The second problem is, that its switching too early. In
          > > >Hamburg it switches when a big clowd covers the sun and
          > > >then it looses current :-(. I would like to have a Flasher
          > > >that flashes only in absolute darkness.
          > > >
          > > >The third problem is, that I would like to use the
          > > >BC-Transistors 337 and 327 (cause I have them) but when I
          > > >use them, the reference LED lights up. When I use 3904 and
          > > >3906 (like now) it doesn't happen.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >I've checked the Pin-Layout and every connection about 100
          > > >times. I use a 4184 Diode instead of germanium. I guess
          > > >that could cause the problem with 1F capacitor thats not
          > > >full (bigger voltage drop) ?!?
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >Yesterday I recognized a diffrence between the solar
          > > >regulator in the PS-Flasher scematics and the ones in the
          > > >SIMD1 thread:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >What about the 10K resistor (100K between solar cell) ?
          > > >
          > > >Do I have to connect the unused inputs of the HC14 to
          > > >ground ? What happens if not ?
          > > >
          > > >What kind of LED's should i use (V, mA) ?
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >The biggest problem is, that it turns on, when its not
          > > >absolutely dark. If the Flasher would turn on in absolute
          > > >darkness, the 5 hours blinking time would be ok...
          > > >
          > > >..
          > > >
          > > >THX so far!
          > > >
          > > >Greetings from cloudy Hamburg,
          > > >
          > > >Freeformjunky
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
          > > >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > --
          > GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
          > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

          --
          GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
          Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
        • Simon Brunke
          Hi, tried out with 100k resistor, connected from regulator output to the base of q2. But it has a later turnon without... Simon ... Von: beam@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 6, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Nachricht
            Hi,
             
            tried out with 100k resistor, connected from regulator output to the base of q2. But it has a later turnon without...
             
            Simon 
            -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
            Von: beam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beam@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von Simon Brunke
            Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Juni 2010 13:21
            An: beam@yahoogroups.com
            Betreff: AW: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

             

            Hi Wilf,

            I wanted to build a solar powered Flasher with HC14 and dark turnon. At first I freeformed the HC14 Flasher with the single transistor dark turnon circuit (http://grant.solarbotics.net/images/Circuits/LO_DarkON.gif).
            Then I breadboarded your PS Flasher with the same Parts and values as in the schematics except:

            4V Solar Cell
            GERMANIUM-DIODE AA112 T
            2x Low current LEDs (Yellow)
            9,1 Mohm timing resistor

            I grounded the inputs that were not used (1,3,5,11 and 13)

            With 9,1 M resistor it blinks once every 3 seconds

            Yesterday I connected a 10K resistor from minus of the solar cell to the collector of q1. There was no big difference so I used a bigger Value (100K), then 3M and then NO resistor. But even with no resistor the circuit turned on very early. It started to blink, when the SC had about 3V and the Cap 4V.

            I would like to have the Solar Regulator to turn on when the SC got about 0.5V or less. Is this possible ?

            And is it true that the 1F Cap gets full in about 10 minutes with 4V/35ma ?

            Today I’ll try to connect the resistor to the base of q2.

            Did some photos too but I have problems with my Yahoo-Account…its not there anymore :-/

            Simon
            -------- Original-Nachricht --------
            > Datum: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 11:06:11 +0200
            > Von: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@...>
            > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
            > Betreff: AW: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

            > Hello Wilf,
            >
            > thx very much! Its an honor for me to have an answer from one of the
            > BEAM Gurus :-)
            >
            > Now that I use a germanium diode, the Cap gets full. Today I'll see if I
            > can change the turnon behavior to Hamburg conditions and the great Idea
            > with the Cap across the SC^^
            > then I will give you a Partlist and perhaps some pictures...
            >
            > Thanks verry much so far,
            >
            > Simon
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
            > Von: beam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beam@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von
            > wrigter
            > Gesendet: Samstag, 29. Mai 2010 20:00
            > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
            > Betreff: Re: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi Simon,
            >
            > Thanks for building the circuit. This was one of my earliest
            > beam circuits. It is not perfect but it can tuned for better
            > performance.
            >
            > The basic objective of the circuit was to stabilize the
            > brightness of LED flashers using a voltage regulator whose
            > output voltage matches the forward voltage of the flasher
            > LEDs. The original circuit did not use pummer type flashers
            > which generally use a charge pump to generate a sawtooth
            > driving voltage across the flaser LED.
            >
            > Let me describe the theory of operation and then suggest
            > some modifications you can try.
            >
            > The solar charger section simply consists of the super cap,
            > the solar cell (SC) and the 1N34a Ge diode. I recommend
            > using the a Ge diode because the forward voltage drop is
            > very small (50mV) when the SC charging current is low i.e.
            > near the end of charge. I understand you used a Si diode
            > which has a 0.5V drop at low current and which would explain
            > the lower cap voltage at end of change. The 2V regulator is
            > a low drop out type consisting of a series pass PNP
            > transistor (Q1) whose base current is supplied by an NPN
            > transistor Q2. The LED is used as a voltage reference which
            > turns on the second NPN transistor Q3 that diverts base
            > current from the first NPN Q2 base and holds the regulator
            > output voltage at approximately 2V. The regulator turns on
            > when the solar cell output voltage drops below the capacitor
            > voltage. Then the base of Q2 receives base current through
            > the series connected 100K base resistor (R1)and the 100K
            > resistor (R2) in parallel with the SC. This happens after
            > the Q2 base voltage rises approximately 0.5V positive with
            > respect to the Q2 emitter. The 0.1uF cap is used to suppress
            > spurious oscillation of the regulator.
            >
            > In the second solar regulator circuit R2 is not used and
            > instead the SC "dark" leakage current provides the initial
            > Q2 base current which is followed by positive feedback
            > current supplied through the 10K resistor connected to the
            > regulator output. That circuit snaps on and once latched on
            > will not turn off until the super cap is nearly discharged
            > or the SC is exposed to bright light. Note that when super
            > cap voltage drops below 2.1V, the regulator output comes out
            > of regulation while its supply current rises rapidly and the
            > super cap will be discharged relatively quickly. This
            > behaviour is typical of many LDO regulator circuits.
            >
            > The load connected to the 2V regulator is usually one or
            > more cmos flasher circuits that use flasher LEDs without
            > series resistors. These flasher LEDs should be the same type
            > as the voltage reference LED in the regulator. If charge
            > pump flashers are used, a voltage reference LED should be
            > selected to ensure that the flasher LEDs are off between
            > flashes to ensure high efficiency.
            >
            > Changing the turn on / off thresholds:
            >
            > The second solar charger circuit using the 10K positive
            > feedback resistor should have a much darker turn on
            > threshold.
            >
            > The 10K resistor can be adjusted to a higher value to change
            > the turn off threshold.
            >
            > A 10-100uF cap across the SC can help the circuit ride
            > through cloud shadows.
            >
            > The 10K feedback resistor can be connected to the base of Q2
            > instead of the SC negative terminal. With that modification,
            > try higher values instead of 10K.
            >
            > Perhaps you can describe your specific application (type of
            > LEDs, flashers, duration of flashing etc, and we can discuss
            > alternative solutions.
            >
            > Regards
            >
            > Wilf
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@... <mailto:simonb23%40gmx.de> >
            > To: <beam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:beam%40yahoogroups.com> >
            > Subject: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
            > Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:15:44 +0200
            >
            > >Hi There,
            > >
            > >i have some problems with the PS-Flasher from Wilf. The one
            > >with the solar regulator circuit...
            > >
            > >The first problem I have is, that the 1f capacitor stops
            > >loading at 3,96 V (solar cell in full light about 4,5 V).
            > >
            > >The second problem is, that its switching too early. In
            > >Hamburg it switches when a big clowd covers the sun and
            > >then it looses current :-(. I would like to have a Flasher
            > >that flashes only in absolute darkness.
            > >
            > >The third problem is, that I would like to use the
            > >BC-Transistors 337 and 327 (cause I have them) but when I
            > >use them, the reference LED lights up. When I use 3904 and
            > >3906 (like now) it doesn't happen.
            > >
            > >
            > >I've checked the Pin-Layout and every connection about 100
            > >times. I use a 4184 Diode instead of germanium. I guess
            > >that could cause the problem with 1F capacitor thats not
            > >full (bigger voltage drop) ?!?
            > >
            > >
            > >Yesterday I recognized a diffrence between the solar
            > >regulator in the PS-Flasher scematics and the ones in the
            > >SIMD1 thread:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >What about the 10K resistor (100K between solar cell) ?
            > >
            > >Do I have to connect the unused inputs of the HC14 to
            > >ground ? What happens if not ?
            > >
            > >What kind of LED's should i use (V, mA) ?
            > >
            > >
            > >The biggest problem is, that it turns on, when its not
            > >absolutely dark. If the Flasher would turn on in absolute
            > >darkness, the 5 hours blinking time would be ok...
            > >
            > >..
            > >
            > >THX so far!
            > >
            > >Greetings from cloudy Hamburg,
            > >
            > >Freeformjunky
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
            > >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
            Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.