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Re: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

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  • Simon Brunke
    thx for your advice. Thats a good thing to check it and i guess it will be faster than my chaos method ;-) but I guess there is no (more) mistake, except the
    Message 1 of 10 , May 27, 2010
      thx for your advice. Thats a good thing to check it and i guess it will be faster than my chaos method ;-)
      but I guess there is no (more) mistake, except the 4148 diode instead of germanium diode.

      I hope someone can give an advice for a later turnon (near absolute darknes).

      Simon


      -------- Original-Nachricht --------
      > Datum: Thu, 27 May 2010 05:33:29 -0700 (PDT)
      > Von: Frankendaddy <frankendaddy@...>
      > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
      > Betreff: Re: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

      > The first advice that I always give is to go back over your circuit and
      > make sure that you built to the schematic.  When I have problems with
      > something that I built I usually make a drawing of how it is built and then
      > compare that to the schematic.  Sometimes it's easier to spot problems doing it
      > like that, because you tend to make the same mistakes if you don't.
      >
      > NOTICE! THE CONTENTS OF THIS ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION ARE
      > CONFIDENTIAL AND PROTECTED UNDER COPYRIGHT. USE BY ANYONE
      > OTHER THAN THE LISTED RECIPIENT(s) IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED
      >
      > --- On Thu, 5/27/10, Simon Brunke <simonb23@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Simon Brunke <simonb23@...>
      > Subject: Re: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
      > To: beam@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Thursday, May 27, 2010, 5:54 AM
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > THX for the fast response!
      > I was thinking about that and did it so far. But the main problems are,
      > that the 1f capacitor isn`t getting full and the circuit switches too early.
      > In the most nocturnal solar engines you were able to select a bigger value
      > of the resistor in parallel with the solar cell (for later turn-on) but
      > here it didn't work.
      >
      > How do I do ?
      >
      > (sorry for my bad english :->)
      > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
      > > Datum: Wed, 26 May 2010 05:20:07 -0700 (PDT)
      > > Von: Frankendaddy <frankendaddy@...>
      > > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
      > > Betreff: Re: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
      >
      > > unused inputs MUST be connected either to +V or 0V.  If they are
      > > floating, the circuit draws a LOT of power.
      > >
      > > NOTICE! THE CONTENTS OF THIS ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION ARE
      > > CONFIDENTIAL AND PROTECTED UNDER COPYRIGHT. USE BY ANYONE
      > > OTHER THAN THE LISTED RECIPIENT(s) IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED
      > >
      > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, Simon Brunke <simonb23@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From: Simon Brunke <simonb23@...>
      > > Subject: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
      > > To: beam@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 7:15 AM
      > >
      > >
      > >  
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi There,
      > >  
      > > i have some problems with the PS-Flasher from Wilf. The one with the
      > > solar regulator circuit...
      > >  
      > > The first problem I have is, that the 1f capacitor stops loading at 3,96
      > V
      > > (solar cell in full light about 4,5 V).
      > >  
      > > The second problem is, that its switching too early. In Hamburg it
      > > switches when a big clowd covers the sun and then it looses current :-(.
      > I would
      > > like to have a Flasher that flashes only in absolute darkness.
      > >  
      > > The third problem is, that I would like to use the BC-Transistors 337
      > and
      > > 327 (cause I have them) but when I use them, the reference LED lights
      > up.
      > > When I use 3904 and 3906 (like now) it doesn't happen.
      > >  
      > >  
      > > I've checked the Pin-Layout and every connection about 100 times. I use
      > a
      > > 4184 Diode instead of germanium. I guess that could cause the problem
      > with
      > > 1F capacitor thats not full (bigger voltage drop) ?!?
      > >  
      > >  
      > > Yesterday I recognized a diffrence between the solar regulator in the
      > > PS-Flasher scematics and the ones in the SIMD1 thread:
      > >
      > >  
      > >
      > > What about the 10K resistor (100K between solar cell)  ?
      > >  
      > > Do I have to connect the unused inputs of the HC14 to ground ? What
      > > happens if not ?
      > >  
      > > What kind of LED's should i use (V, mA) ?
      > >  
      > >  
      > > The biggest problem is, that it turns on, when its not absolutely dark.
      > If
      > > the Flasher would turn on in absolute darkness, the 5 hours blinking
      > time
      > > would be ok...
      > >  
      > > ...
      > >  
      > > THX so far!
      > >  
      > > Greetings from cloudy Hamburg,
      > >  
      > > Freeformjunky
      > >  
      > >  
      > >  
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > --
      > GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
      > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
      Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
    • wrigter
      Hi Simon, Thanks for building the circuit. This was one of my earliest beam circuits. It is not perfect but it can tuned for better performance. The basic
      Message 2 of 10 , May 29, 2010
        Hi Simon,

        Thanks for building the circuit. This was one of my earliest
        beam circuits. It is not perfect but it can tuned for better
        performance.

        The basic objective of the circuit was to stabilize the
        brightness of LED flashers using a voltage regulator whose
        output voltage matches the forward voltage of the flasher
        LEDs. The original circuit did not use pummer type flashers
        which generally use a charge pump to generate a sawtooth
        driving voltage across the flaser LED.

        Let me describe the theory of operation and then suggest
        some modifications you can try.

        The solar charger section simply consists of the super cap,
        the solar cell (SC) and the 1N34a Ge diode. I recommend
        using the a Ge diode because the forward voltage drop is
        very small (50mV) when the SC charging current is low i.e.
        near the end of charge. I understand you used a Si diode
        which has a 0.5V drop at low current and which would explain
        the lower cap voltage at end of change. The 2V regulator is
        a low drop out type consisting of a series pass PNP
        transistor (Q1) whose base current is supplied by an NPN
        transistor Q2. The LED is used as a voltage reference which
        turns on the second NPN transistor Q3 that diverts base
        current from the first NPN Q2 base and holds the regulator
        output voltage at approximately 2V. The regulator turns on
        when the solar cell output voltage drops below the capacitor
        voltage. Then the base of Q2 receives base current through
        the series connected 100K base resistor (R1)and the 100K
        resistor (R2) in parallel with the SC. This happens after
        the Q2 base voltage rises approximately 0.5V positive with
        respect to the Q2 emitter. The 0.1uF cap is used to suppress
        spurious oscillation of the regulator.

        In the second solar regulator circuit R2 is not used and
        instead the SC "dark" leakage current provides the initial
        Q2 base current which is followed by positive feedback
        current supplied through the 10K resistor connected to the
        regulator output. That circuit snaps on and once latched on
        will not turn off until the super cap is nearly discharged
        or the SC is exposed to bright light. Note that when super
        cap voltage drops below 2.1V, the regulator output comes out
        of regulation while its supply current rises rapidly and the
        super cap will be discharged relatively quickly. This
        behaviour is typical of many LDO regulator circuits.

        The load connected to the 2V regulator is usually one or
        more cmos flasher circuits that use flasher LEDs without
        series resistors. These flasher LEDs should be the same type
        as the voltage reference LED in the regulator. If charge
        pump flashers are used, a voltage reference LED should be
        selected to ensure that the flasher LEDs are off between
        flashes to ensure high efficiency.

        Changing the turn on / off thresholds:

        The second solar charger circuit using the 10K positive
        feedback resistor should have a much darker turn on
        threshold.

        The 10K resistor can be adjusted to a higher value to change
        the turn off threshold.

        A 10-100uF cap across the SC can help the circuit ride
        through cloud shadows.

        The 10K feedback resistor can be connected to the base of Q2
        instead of the SC negative terminal. With that modification,
        try higher values instead of 10K.

        Perhaps you can describe your specific application (type of
        LEDs, flashers, duration of flashing etc, and we can discuss
        alternative solutions.

        Regards

        Wilf

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@...>
        To: <beam@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
        Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:15:44 +0200

        >Hi There,
        >
        >i have some problems with the PS-Flasher from Wilf. The one
        >with the solar regulator circuit...
        >
        >The first problem I have is, that the 1f capacitor stops
        >loading at 3,96 V (solar cell in full light about 4,5 V).
        >
        >The second problem is, that its switching too early. In
        >Hamburg it switches when a big clowd covers the sun and
        >then it looses current :-(. I would like to have a Flasher
        >that flashes only in absolute darkness.
        >
        >The third problem is, that I would like to use the
        >BC-Transistors 337 and 327 (cause I have them) but when I
        >use them, the reference LED lights up. When I use 3904 and
        >3906 (like now) it doesn't happen.
        >
        >
        >I've checked the Pin-Layout and every connection about 100
        >times. I use a 4184 Diode instead of germanium. I guess
        >that could cause the problem with 1F capacitor thats not
        >full (bigger voltage drop) ?!?
        >
        >
        >Yesterday I recognized a diffrence between the solar
        >regulator in the PS-Flasher scematics and the ones in the
        >SIMD1 thread:
        >
        >
        >
        >What about the 10K resistor (100K between solar cell) ?
        >
        >Do I have to connect the unused inputs of the HC14 to
        >ground ? What happens if not ?
        >
        >What kind of LED's should i use (V, mA) ?
        >
        >
        >The biggest problem is, that it turns on, when its not
        >absolutely dark. If the Flasher would turn on in absolute
        >darkness, the 5 hours blinking time would be ok...
        >
        >..
        >
        >THX so far!
        >
        >Greetings from cloudy Hamburg,
        >
        >Freeformjunky
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
        >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
      • Simon Brunke
        Hello Wilf, thx very much! Its an honor for me to have an answer from one of the BEAM Gurus :-) Now that I use a germanium diode, the Cap gets full. Today I ll
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 2, 2010
          Nachricht
          Hello Wilf,
           
          thx very much! Its an honor for me to have an answer from one of the BEAM Gurus :-)
           
          Now that I use a germanium diode, the Cap gets full. Today I'll see if I can change the turnon behavior to Hamburg conditions and the great Idea with the Cap across the SC^^
          then I will give you a Partlist and perhaps some pictures...
           
          Thanks verry much so far,
           
          Simon 
           
           
          -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
          Von: beam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beam@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von wrigter
          Gesendet: Samstag, 29. Mai 2010 20:00
          An: beam@yahoogroups.com
          Betreff: Re: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

           

          Hi Simon,

          Thanks for building the circuit. This was one of my earliest
          beam circuits. It is not perfect but it can tuned for better
          performance.

          The basic objective of the circuit was to stabilize the
          brightness of LED flashers using a voltage regulator whose
          output voltage matches the forward voltage of the flasher
          LEDs. The original circuit did not use pummer type flashers
          which generally use a charge pump to generate a sawtooth
          driving voltage across the flaser LED.

          Let me describe the theory of operation and then suggest
          some modifications you can try.

          The solar charger section simply consists of the super cap,
          the solar cell (SC) and the 1N34a Ge diode. I recommend
          using the a Ge diode because the forward voltage drop is
          very small (50mV) when the SC charging current is low i.e.
          near the end of charge. I understand you used a Si diode
          which has a 0.5V drop at low current and which would explain
          the lower cap voltage at end of change. The 2V regulator is
          a low drop out type consisting of a series pass PNP
          transistor (Q1) whose base current is supplied by an NPN
          transistor Q2. The LED is used as a voltage reference which
          turns on the second NPN transistor Q3 that diverts base
          current from the first NPN Q2 base and holds the regulator
          output voltage at approximately 2V. The regulator turns on
          when the solar cell output voltage drops below the capacitor
          voltage. Then the base of Q2 receives base current through
          the series connected 100K base resistor (R1)and the 100K
          resistor (R2) in parallel with the SC. This happens after
          the Q2 base voltage rises approximately 0.5V positive with
          respect to the Q2 emitter. The 0.1uF cap is used to suppress
          spurious oscillation of the regulator.

          In the second solar regulator circuit R2 is not used and
          instead the SC "dark" leakage current provides the initial
          Q2 base current which is followed by positive feedback
          current supplied through the 10K resistor connected to the
          regulator output. That circuit snaps on and once latched on
          will not turn off until the super cap is nearly discharged
          or the SC is exposed to bright light. Note that when super
          cap voltage drops below 2.1V, the regulator output comes out
          of regulation while its supply current rises rapidly and the
          super cap will be discharged relatively quickly. This
          behaviour is typical of many LDO regulator circuits.

          The load connected to the 2V regulator is usually one or
          more cmos flasher circuits that use flasher LEDs without
          series resistors. These flasher LEDs should be the same type
          as the voltage reference LED in the regulator. If charge
          pump flashers are used, a voltage reference LED should be
          selected to ensure that the flasher LEDs are off between
          flashes to ensure high efficiency.

          Changing the turn on / off thresholds:

          The second solar charger circuit using the 10K positive
          feedback resistor should have a much darker turn on
          threshold.

          The 10K resistor can be adjusted to a higher value to change
          the turn off threshold.

          A 10-100uF cap across the SC can help the circuit ride
          through cloud shadows.

          The 10K feedback resistor can be connected to the base of Q2
          instead of the SC negative terminal. With that modification,
          try higher values instead of 10K.

          Perhaps you can describe your specific application (type of
          LEDs, flashers, duration of flashing etc, and we can discuss
          alternative solutions.

          Regards

          Wilf

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@...>
          To: <beam@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
          Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:15:44 +0200

          >Hi There,
          >
          >i have some problems with the PS-Flasher from Wilf. The one
          >with the solar regulator circuit...
          >
          >The first problem I have is, that the 1f capacitor stops
          >loading at 3,96 V (solar cell in full light about 4,5 V).
          >
          >The second problem is, that its switching too early. In
          >Hamburg it switches when a big clowd covers the sun and
          >then it looses current :-(. I would like to have a Flasher
          >that flashes only in absolute darkness.
          >
          >The third problem is, that I would like to use the
          >BC-Transistors 337 and 327 (cause I have them) but when I
          >use them, the reference LED lights up. When I use 3904 and
          >3906 (like now) it doesn't happen.
          >
          >
          >I've checked the Pin-Layout and every connection about 100
          >times. I use a 4184 Diode instead of germanium. I guess
          >that could cause the problem with 1F capacitor thats not
          >full (bigger voltage drop) ?!?
          >
          >
          >Yesterday I recognized a diffrence between the solar
          >regulator in the PS-Flasher scematics and the ones in the
          >SIMD1 thread:
          >
          >
          >
          >What about the 10K resistor (100K between solar cell) ?
          >
          >Do I have to connect the unused inputs of the HC14 to
          >ground ? What happens if not ?
          >
          >What kind of LED's should i use (V, mA) ?
          >
          >
          >The biggest problem is, that it turns on, when its not
          >absolutely dark. If the Flasher would turn on in absolute
          >darkness, the 5 hours blinking time would be ok...
          >
          >..
          >
          >THX so far!
          >
          >Greetings from cloudy Hamburg,
          >
          >Freeformjunky
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
          >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]

        • Simon Brunke
          Hi Wilf, I wanted to build a solar powered Flasher with HC14 and dark turnon. At first I freeformed the HC14 Flasher with the single transistor dark turnon
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 3, 2010
            Hi Wilf,

            I wanted to build a solar powered Flasher with HC14 and dark turnon. At first I freeformed the HC14 Flasher with the single transistor dark turnon circuit (http://grant.solarbotics.net/images/Circuits/LO_DarkON.gif).
            Then I breadboarded your PS Flasher with the same Parts and values as in the schematics except:

            4V Solar Cell
            GERMANIUM-DIODE AA112 T
            2x Low current LEDs (Yellow)
            9,1 Mohm timing resistor

            I grounded the inputs that were not used (1,3,5,11 and 13)

            With 9,1 M resistor it blinks once every 3 seconds

            Yesterday I connected a 10K resistor from minus of the solar cell to the collector of q1. There was no big difference so I used a bigger Value (100K), then 3M and then NO resistor. But even with no resistor the circuit turned on very early. It started to blink, when the SC had about 3V and the Cap 4V.

            I would like to have the Solar Regulator to turn on when the SC got about 0.5V or less. Is this possible ?

            And is it true that the 1F Cap gets full in about 10 minutes with 4V/35ma ?

            Today I’ll try to connect the resistor to the base of q2.

            Did some photos too but I have problems with my Yahoo-Account…its not there anymore :-/


            Simon
            -------- Original-Nachricht --------
            > Datum: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 11:06:11 +0200
            > Von: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@...>
            > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
            > Betreff: AW: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

            > Hello Wilf,
            >
            > thx very much! Its an honor for me to have an answer from one of the
            > BEAM Gurus :-)
            >
            > Now that I use a germanium diode, the Cap gets full. Today I'll see if I
            > can change the turnon behavior to Hamburg conditions and the great Idea
            > with the Cap across the SC^^
            > then I will give you a Partlist and perhaps some pictures...
            >
            > Thanks verry much so far,
            >
            > Simon
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
            > Von: beam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beam@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von
            > wrigter
            > Gesendet: Samstag, 29. Mai 2010 20:00
            > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
            > Betreff: Re: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi Simon,
            >
            > Thanks for building the circuit. This was one of my earliest
            > beam circuits. It is not perfect but it can tuned for better
            > performance.
            >
            > The basic objective of the circuit was to stabilize the
            > brightness of LED flashers using a voltage regulator whose
            > output voltage matches the forward voltage of the flasher
            > LEDs. The original circuit did not use pummer type flashers
            > which generally use a charge pump to generate a sawtooth
            > driving voltage across the flaser LED.
            >
            > Let me describe the theory of operation and then suggest
            > some modifications you can try.
            >
            > The solar charger section simply consists of the super cap,
            > the solar cell (SC) and the 1N34a Ge diode. I recommend
            > using the a Ge diode because the forward voltage drop is
            > very small (50mV) when the SC charging current is low i.e.
            > near the end of charge. I understand you used a Si diode
            > which has a 0.5V drop at low current and which would explain
            > the lower cap voltage at end of change. The 2V regulator is
            > a low drop out type consisting of a series pass PNP
            > transistor (Q1) whose base current is supplied by an NPN
            > transistor Q2. The LED is used as a voltage reference which
            > turns on the second NPN transistor Q3 that diverts base
            > current from the first NPN Q2 base and holds the regulator
            > output voltage at approximately 2V. The regulator turns on
            > when the solar cell output voltage drops below the capacitor
            > voltage. Then the base of Q2 receives base current through
            > the series connected 100K base resistor (R1)and the 100K
            > resistor (R2) in parallel with the SC. This happens after
            > the Q2 base voltage rises approximately 0.5V positive with
            > respect to the Q2 emitter. The 0.1uF cap is used to suppress
            > spurious oscillation of the regulator.
            >
            > In the second solar regulator circuit R2 is not used and
            > instead the SC "dark" leakage current provides the initial
            > Q2 base current which is followed by positive feedback
            > current supplied through the 10K resistor connected to the
            > regulator output. That circuit snaps on and once latched on
            > will not turn off until the super cap is nearly discharged
            > or the SC is exposed to bright light. Note that when super
            > cap voltage drops below 2.1V, the regulator output comes out
            > of regulation while its supply current rises rapidly and the
            > super cap will be discharged relatively quickly. This
            > behaviour is typical of many LDO regulator circuits.
            >
            > The load connected to the 2V regulator is usually one or
            > more cmos flasher circuits that use flasher LEDs without
            > series resistors. These flasher LEDs should be the same type
            > as the voltage reference LED in the regulator. If charge
            > pump flashers are used, a voltage reference LED should be
            > selected to ensure that the flasher LEDs are off between
            > flashes to ensure high efficiency.
            >
            > Changing the turn on / off thresholds:
            >
            > The second solar charger circuit using the 10K positive
            > feedback resistor should have a much darker turn on
            > threshold.
            >
            > The 10K resistor can be adjusted to a higher value to change
            > the turn off threshold.
            >
            > A 10-100uF cap across the SC can help the circuit ride
            > through cloud shadows.
            >
            > The 10K feedback resistor can be connected to the base of Q2
            > instead of the SC negative terminal. With that modification,
            > try higher values instead of 10K.
            >
            > Perhaps you can describe your specific application (type of
            > LEDs, flashers, duration of flashing etc, and we can discuss
            > alternative solutions.
            >
            > Regards
            >
            > Wilf
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@... <mailto:simonb23%40gmx.de> >
            > To: <beam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:beam%40yahoogroups.com> >
            > Subject: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
            > Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:15:44 +0200
            >
            > >Hi There,
            > >
            > >i have some problems with the PS-Flasher from Wilf. The one
            > >with the solar regulator circuit...
            > >
            > >The first problem I have is, that the 1f capacitor stops
            > >loading at 3,96 V (solar cell in full light about 4,5 V).
            > >
            > >The second problem is, that its switching too early. In
            > >Hamburg it switches when a big clowd covers the sun and
            > >then it looses current :-(. I would like to have a Flasher
            > >that flashes only in absolute darkness.
            > >
            > >The third problem is, that I would like to use the
            > >BC-Transistors 337 and 327 (cause I have them) but when I
            > >use them, the reference LED lights up. When I use 3904 and
            > >3906 (like now) it doesn't happen.
            > >
            > >
            > >I've checked the Pin-Layout and every connection about 100
            > >times. I use a 4184 Diode instead of germanium. I guess
            > >that could cause the problem with 1F capacitor thats not
            > >full (bigger voltage drop) ?!?
            > >
            > >
            > >Yesterday I recognized a diffrence between the solar
            > >regulator in the PS-Flasher scematics and the ones in the
            > >SIMD1 thread:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >What about the 10K resistor (100K between solar cell) ?
            > >
            > >Do I have to connect the unused inputs of the HC14 to
            > >ground ? What happens if not ?
            > >
            > >What kind of LED's should i use (V, mA) ?
            > >
            > >
            > >The biggest problem is, that it turns on, when its not
            > >absolutely dark. If the Flasher would turn on in absolute
            > >darkness, the 5 hours blinking time would be ok...
            > >
            > >..
            > >
            > >THX so far!
            > >
            > >Greetings from cloudy Hamburg,
            > >
            > >Freeformjunky
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
            > >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
            Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
          • Simon Brunke
            Halli Hallo, loaded up some pictures... HC14 flasher with one transistor dark activation (like the design and allways searching for solar cells like these
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 4, 2010
              Halli Hallo,

              loaded up some pictures...

              HC14 flasher with one transistor dark activation (like the design and allways searching for solar cells like these calculater cell!)

              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/hc14flasher01_ff_freeformjunky.jpg
              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/hc14flasher02_ff_freeformjunky.jpg
              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/hc14flasher03_ff_freeformjunky.jpg

              freeformed, scorpion shaped photopopper (theres a Mistake in there...just pops the left motor )-:

              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/popper01_ff_freeformjunky.jpg
              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/popper02_ff_freeformjunky.jpg

              Wilfs PS Flasher breadboarded

              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/psflasher01_bb_freeformjunky.jpg
              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/psflasher02_bb_freeformjunky.jpg
              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/psflasher03_bb_freeformjunky.jpg
              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/psflasher04_bb_freeformjunky.jpg

              freeformed ultra sonic distance measurement

              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/ultrasonic01_ff_freeformjunky.jpg
              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/ultrasonic02_ff_freeformjunky.jpg
              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/ultrasonic03_ff_freeformjunky.jpg
              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/ultrasonic04_ff_freeformjunky.jpg

              just a Motordriver

              www.brunkes.net/beam/pics/motordriver_ff_freeformjunky.jpg

              Greets,

              Simon
              -------- Original-Nachricht --------
              > Datum: Thu, 03 Jun 2010 13:21:25 +0200
              > Von: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@...>
              > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
              > Betreff: AW: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

              > Hi Wilf,
              >
              > I wanted to build a solar powered Flasher with HC14 and dark turnon. At
              > first I freeformed the HC14 Flasher with the single transistor dark turnon
              > circuit (http://grant.solarbotics.net/images/Circuits/LO_DarkON.gif).
              > Then I breadboarded your PS Flasher with the same Parts and values as in
              > the schematics except:
              >
              > 4V Solar Cell
              > GERMANIUM-DIODE AA112 T
              > 2x Low current LEDs (Yellow)
              > 9,1 Mohm timing resistor
              >
              > I grounded the inputs that were not used (1,3,5,11 and 13)
              >
              > With 9,1 M resistor it blinks once every 3 seconds
              >
              > Yesterday I connected a 10K resistor from minus of the solar cell to the
              > collector of q1. There was no big difference so I used a bigger Value
              > (100K), then 3M and then NO resistor. But even with no resistor the circuit
              > turned on very early. It started to blink, when the SC had about 3V and the Cap
              > 4V.
              >
              > I would like to have the Solar Regulator to turn on when the SC got about
              > 0.5V or less. Is this possible ?
              >
              > And is it true that the 1F Cap gets full in about 10 minutes with 4V/35ma
              > ?
              >
              > Today I’ll try to connect the resistor to the base of q2.
              >
              > Did some photos too but I have problems with my Yahoo-Account…its not
              > there anymore :-/
              >
              >
              > Simon
              > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
              > > Datum: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 11:06:11 +0200
              > > Von: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@...>
              > > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
              > > Betreff: AW: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
              >
              > > Hello Wilf,
              > >
              > > thx very much! Its an honor for me to have an answer from one of the
              > > BEAM Gurus :-)
              > >
              > > Now that I use a germanium diode, the Cap gets full. Today I'll see if I
              > > can change the turnon behavior to Hamburg conditions and the great Idea
              > > with the Cap across the SC^^
              > > then I will give you a Partlist and perhaps some pictures...
              > >
              > > Thanks verry much so far,
              > >
              > > Simon
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
              > > Von: beam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beam@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von
              > > wrigter
              > > Gesendet: Samstag, 29. Mai 2010 20:00
              > > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
              > > Betreff: Re: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi Simon,
              > >
              > > Thanks for building the circuit. This was one of my earliest
              > > beam circuits. It is not perfect but it can tuned for better
              > > performance.
              > >
              > > The basic objective of the circuit was to stabilize the
              > > brightness of LED flashers using a voltage regulator whose
              > > output voltage matches the forward voltage of the flasher
              > > LEDs. The original circuit did not use pummer type flashers
              > > which generally use a charge pump to generate a sawtooth
              > > driving voltage across the flaser LED.
              > >
              > > Let me describe the theory of operation and then suggest
              > > some modifications you can try.
              > >
              > > The solar charger section simply consists of the super cap,
              > > the solar cell (SC) and the 1N34a Ge diode. I recommend
              > > using the a Ge diode because the forward voltage drop is
              > > very small (50mV) when the SC charging current is low i.e.
              > > near the end of charge. I understand you used a Si diode
              > > which has a 0.5V drop at low current and which would explain
              > > the lower cap voltage at end of change. The 2V regulator is
              > > a low drop out type consisting of a series pass PNP
              > > transistor (Q1) whose base current is supplied by an NPN
              > > transistor Q2. The LED is used as a voltage reference which
              > > turns on the second NPN transistor Q3 that diverts base
              > > current from the first NPN Q2 base and holds the regulator
              > > output voltage at approximately 2V. The regulator turns on
              > > when the solar cell output voltage drops below the capacitor
              > > voltage. Then the base of Q2 receives base current through
              > > the series connected 100K base resistor (R1)and the 100K
              > > resistor (R2) in parallel with the SC. This happens after
              > > the Q2 base voltage rises approximately 0.5V positive with
              > > respect to the Q2 emitter. The 0.1uF cap is used to suppress
              > > spurious oscillation of the regulator.
              > >
              > > In the second solar regulator circuit R2 is not used and
              > > instead the SC "dark" leakage current provides the initial
              > > Q2 base current which is followed by positive feedback
              > > current supplied through the 10K resistor connected to the
              > > regulator output. That circuit snaps on and once latched on
              > > will not turn off until the super cap is nearly discharged
              > > or the SC is exposed to bright light. Note that when super
              > > cap voltage drops below 2.1V, the regulator output comes out
              > > of regulation while its supply current rises rapidly and the
              > > super cap will be discharged relatively quickly. This
              > > behaviour is typical of many LDO regulator circuits.
              > >
              > > The load connected to the 2V regulator is usually one or
              > > more cmos flasher circuits that use flasher LEDs without
              > > series resistors. These flasher LEDs should be the same type
              > > as the voltage reference LED in the regulator. If charge
              > > pump flashers are used, a voltage reference LED should be
              > > selected to ensure that the flasher LEDs are off between
              > > flashes to ensure high efficiency.
              > >
              > > Changing the turn on / off thresholds:
              > >
              > > The second solar charger circuit using the 10K positive
              > > feedback resistor should have a much darker turn on
              > > threshold.
              > >
              > > The 10K resistor can be adjusted to a higher value to change
              > > the turn off threshold.
              > >
              > > A 10-100uF cap across the SC can help the circuit ride
              > > through cloud shadows.
              > >
              > > The 10K feedback resistor can be connected to the base of Q2
              > > instead of the SC negative terminal. With that modification,
              > > try higher values instead of 10K.
              > >
              > > Perhaps you can describe your specific application (type of
              > > LEDs, flashers, duration of flashing etc, and we can discuss
              > > alternative solutions.
              > >
              > > Regards
              > >
              > > Wilf
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@... <mailto:simonb23%40gmx.de> >
              > > To: <beam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:beam%40yahoogroups.com> >
              > > Subject: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
              > > Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:15:44 +0200
              > >
              > > >Hi There,
              > > >
              > > >i have some problems with the PS-Flasher from Wilf. The one
              > > >with the solar regulator circuit...
              > > >
              > > >The first problem I have is, that the 1f capacitor stops
              > > >loading at 3,96 V (solar cell in full light about 4,5 V).
              > > >
              > > >The second problem is, that its switching too early. In
              > > >Hamburg it switches when a big clowd covers the sun and
              > > >then it looses current :-(. I would like to have a Flasher
              > > >that flashes only in absolute darkness.
              > > >
              > > >The third problem is, that I would like to use the
              > > >BC-Transistors 337 and 327 (cause I have them) but when I
              > > >use them, the reference LED lights up. When I use 3904 and
              > > >3906 (like now) it doesn't happen.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >I've checked the Pin-Layout and every connection about 100
              > > >times. I use a 4184 Diode instead of germanium. I guess
              > > >that could cause the problem with 1F capacitor thats not
              > > >full (bigger voltage drop) ?!?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >Yesterday I recognized a diffrence between the solar
              > > >regulator in the PS-Flasher scematics and the ones in the
              > > >SIMD1 thread:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >What about the 10K resistor (100K between solar cell) ?
              > > >
              > > >Do I have to connect the unused inputs of the HC14 to
              > > >ground ? What happens if not ?
              > > >
              > > >What kind of LED's should i use (V, mA) ?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >The biggest problem is, that it turns on, when its not
              > > >absolutely dark. If the Flasher would turn on in absolute
              > > >darkness, the 5 hours blinking time would be ok...
              > > >
              > > >..
              > > >
              > > >THX so far!
              > > >
              > > >Greetings from cloudy Hamburg,
              > > >
              > > >Freeformjunky
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
              > > >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > --
              > GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
              > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

              --
              GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
              Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
            • Simon Brunke
              Hi, tried out with 100k resistor, connected from regulator output to the base of q2. But it has a later turnon without... Simon ... Von: beam@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 6, 2010
                Nachricht
                Hi,
                 
                tried out with 100k resistor, connected from regulator output to the base of q2. But it has a later turnon without...
                 
                Simon 
                -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                Von: beam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beam@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von Simon Brunke
                Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Juni 2010 13:21
                An: beam@yahoogroups.com
                Betreff: AW: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

                 

                Hi Wilf,

                I wanted to build a solar powered Flasher with HC14 and dark turnon. At first I freeformed the HC14 Flasher with the single transistor dark turnon circuit (http://grant.solarbotics.net/images/Circuits/LO_DarkON.gif).
                Then I breadboarded your PS Flasher with the same Parts and values as in the schematics except:

                4V Solar Cell
                GERMANIUM-DIODE AA112 T
                2x Low current LEDs (Yellow)
                9,1 Mohm timing resistor

                I grounded the inputs that were not used (1,3,5,11 and 13)

                With 9,1 M resistor it blinks once every 3 seconds

                Yesterday I connected a 10K resistor from minus of the solar cell to the collector of q1. There was no big difference so I used a bigger Value (100K), then 3M and then NO resistor. But even with no resistor the circuit turned on very early. It started to blink, when the SC had about 3V and the Cap 4V.

                I would like to have the Solar Regulator to turn on when the SC got about 0.5V or less. Is this possible ?

                And is it true that the 1F Cap gets full in about 10 minutes with 4V/35ma ?

                Today I’ll try to connect the resistor to the base of q2.

                Did some photos too but I have problems with my Yahoo-Account…its not there anymore :-/

                Simon
                -------- Original-Nachricht --------
                > Datum: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 11:06:11 +0200
                > Von: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@...>
                > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
                > Betreff: AW: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer

                > Hello Wilf,
                >
                > thx very much! Its an honor for me to have an answer from one of the
                > BEAM Gurus :-)
                >
                > Now that I use a germanium diode, the Cap gets full. Today I'll see if I
                > can change the turnon behavior to Hamburg conditions and the great Idea
                > with the Cap across the SC^^
                > then I will give you a Partlist and perhaps some pictures...
                >
                > Thanks verry much so far,
                >
                > Simon
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                > Von: beam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beam@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von
                > wrigter
                > Gesendet: Samstag, 29. Mai 2010 20:00
                > An: beam@yahoogroups.com
                > Betreff: Re: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi Simon,
                >
                > Thanks for building the circuit. This was one of my earliest
                > beam circuits. It is not perfect but it can tuned for better
                > performance.
                >
                > The basic objective of the circuit was to stabilize the
                > brightness of LED flashers using a voltage regulator whose
                > output voltage matches the forward voltage of the flasher
                > LEDs. The original circuit did not use pummer type flashers
                > which generally use a charge pump to generate a sawtooth
                > driving voltage across the flaser LED.
                >
                > Let me describe the theory of operation and then suggest
                > some modifications you can try.
                >
                > The solar charger section simply consists of the super cap,
                > the solar cell (SC) and the 1N34a Ge diode. I recommend
                > using the a Ge diode because the forward voltage drop is
                > very small (50mV) when the SC charging current is low i.e.
                > near the end of charge. I understand you used a Si diode
                > which has a 0.5V drop at low current and which would explain
                > the lower cap voltage at end of change. The 2V regulator is
                > a low drop out type consisting of a series pass PNP
                > transistor (Q1) whose base current is supplied by an NPN
                > transistor Q2. The LED is used as a voltage reference which
                > turns on the second NPN transistor Q3 that diverts base
                > current from the first NPN Q2 base and holds the regulator
                > output voltage at approximately 2V. The regulator turns on
                > when the solar cell output voltage drops below the capacitor
                > voltage. Then the base of Q2 receives base current through
                > the series connected 100K base resistor (R1)and the 100K
                > resistor (R2) in parallel with the SC. This happens after
                > the Q2 base voltage rises approximately 0.5V positive with
                > respect to the Q2 emitter. The 0.1uF cap is used to suppress
                > spurious oscillation of the regulator.
                >
                > In the second solar regulator circuit R2 is not used and
                > instead the SC "dark" leakage current provides the initial
                > Q2 base current which is followed by positive feedback
                > current supplied through the 10K resistor connected to the
                > regulator output. That circuit snaps on and once latched on
                > will not turn off until the super cap is nearly discharged
                > or the SC is exposed to bright light. Note that when super
                > cap voltage drops below 2.1V, the regulator output comes out
                > of regulation while its supply current rises rapidly and the
                > super cap will be discharged relatively quickly. This
                > behaviour is typical of many LDO regulator circuits.
                >
                > The load connected to the 2V regulator is usually one or
                > more cmos flasher circuits that use flasher LEDs without
                > series resistors. These flasher LEDs should be the same type
                > as the voltage reference LED in the regulator. If charge
                > pump flashers are used, a voltage reference LED should be
                > selected to ensure that the flasher LEDs are off between
                > flashes to ensure high efficiency.
                >
                > Changing the turn on / off thresholds:
                >
                > The second solar charger circuit using the 10K positive
                > feedback resistor should have a much darker turn on
                > threshold.
                >
                > The 10K resistor can be adjusted to a higher value to change
                > the turn off threshold.
                >
                > A 10-100uF cap across the SC can help the circuit ride
                > through cloud shadows.
                >
                > The 10K feedback resistor can be connected to the base of Q2
                > instead of the SC negative terminal. With that modification,
                > try higher values instead of 10K.
                >
                > Perhaps you can describe your specific application (type of
                > LEDs, flashers, duration of flashing etc, and we can discuss
                > alternative solutions.
                >
                > Regards
                >
                > Wilf
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Simon Brunke" <simonb23@... <mailto:simonb23%40gmx.de> >
                > To: <beam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:beam%40yahoogroups.com> >
                > Subject: [beam] Wilfs PS Flasher/ Solar regulator/ Pummer
                > Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:15:44 +0200
                >
                > >Hi There,
                > >
                > >i have some problems with the PS-Flasher from Wilf. The one
                > >with the solar regulator circuit...
                > >
                > >The first problem I have is, that the 1f capacitor stops
                > >loading at 3,96 V (solar cell in full light about 4,5 V).
                > >
                > >The second problem is, that its switching too early. In
                > >Hamburg it switches when a big clowd covers the sun and
                > >then it looses current :-(. I would like to have a Flasher
                > >that flashes only in absolute darkness.
                > >
                > >The third problem is, that I would like to use the
                > >BC-Transistors 337 and 327 (cause I have them) but when I
                > >use them, the reference LED lights up. When I use 3904 and
                > >3906 (like now) it doesn't happen.
                > >
                > >
                > >I've checked the Pin-Layout and every connection about 100
                > >times. I use a 4184 Diode instead of germanium. I guess
                > >that could cause the problem with 1F capacitor thats not
                > >full (bigger voltage drop) ?!?
                > >
                > >
                > >Yesterday I recognized a diffrence between the solar
                > >regulator in the PS-Flasher scematics and the ones in the
                > >SIMD1 thread:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >What about the 10K resistor (100K between solar cell) ?
                > >
                > >Do I have to connect the unused inputs of the HC14 to
                > >ground ? What happens if not ?
                > >
                > >What kind of LED's should i use (V, mA) ?
                > >
                > >
                > >The biggest problem is, that it turns on, when its not
                > >absolutely dark. If the Flasher would turn on in absolute
                > >darkness, the 5 hours blinking time would be ok...
                > >
                > >..
                > >
                > >THX so far!
                > >
                > >Greetings from cloudy Hamburg,
                > >
                > >Freeformjunky
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
                > >[Attachment: Outlook.bmp]
                >
                >
                >
                >

                --
                GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
                Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

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