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Minisumo circuit

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  • firnagzen
    Umm. I just cobbled together a minisumo opponent locating circuit, I ll be building it sometime soon, but could someone help me check it for obvious circuit
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 3, 2006
      Umm. I just cobbled together a minisumo opponent locating circuit, I'll
      be building it sometime soon, but could someone help me check it for
      obvious circuit errors first?

      http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
      bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif

      What I'd like it to do is this:
      -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
      -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND the left
      IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
      -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND the
      right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
      -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives foward
      -By the way, the PNA4602's go low when they detect something. (Why do
      they do it like that, anyway?)

      Thanks in advance.
    • firnagzen
      Scary, I just pulled a Wilf Wrighter on myself. I added a couple of parts to imrpove the circuit, but I would still like someone to help me check this circuit.
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 4, 2006
        Scary, I just pulled a Wilf Wrighter on myself. I added a couple of
        parts to imrpove the circuit, but I would still like someone to help
        me check this circuit.

        http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
        bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif

        Expected performance:
        -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
        -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND the
        left IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
        -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND the
        right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
        -When the left side sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND
        the left side IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
        -When the right side sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND
        the right side IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
        -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives foward

        Thanks.

        --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@...> wrote:
        >
        > Umm. I just cobbled together a minisumo opponent locating circuit,
        I'll
        > be building it sometime soon, but could someone help me check it
        for
        > obvious circuit errors first?
        >
        > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
        > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif
        >
        > What I'd like it to do is this:
        > -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
        > -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND the
        left
        > IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
        > -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND the
        > right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
        > -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives foward
        > -By the way, the PNA4602's go low when they detect something. (Why
        do
        > they do it like that, anyway?)
        >
        > Thanks in advance.
        >
      • Joseph Charles
        What do the left and right labels refer to? What is the squiggly symbol on the vertical line leaving these labels? I don t recognise it, sorry. Jo
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 4, 2006
          What do the 'left' and 'right' labels refer to? What is the squiggly
          symbol on the vertical line leaving these labels? I don't recognise
          it, sorry.

          Jo

          --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@...> wrote:
          >
          > Scary, I just pulled a Wilf Wrighter on myself. I added a couple of
          > parts to imrpove the circuit, but I would still like someone to help
          > me check this circuit.
          >
          > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
          > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif
          >
          > Expected performance:
          > -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
          > -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND the
          > left IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
          > -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND the
          > right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
          > -When the left side sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND
          > the left side IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
          > -When the right side sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND
          > the right side IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
          > -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives foward
          >
          > Thanks.
          >
          > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Umm. I just cobbled together a minisumo opponent locating circuit,
          > I'll
          > > be building it sometime soon, but could someone help me check it
          > for
          > > obvious circuit errors first?
          > >
          > > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
          > > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif
          > >
          > > What I'd like it to do is this:
          > > -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
          > > -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND the
          > left
          > > IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
          > > -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND the
          > > right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
          > > -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives foward
          > > -By the way, the PNA4602's go low when they detect something. (Why
          > do
          > > they do it like that, anyway?)
          > >
          > > Thanks in advance.
          > >
          >
        • J Wolfgang Goerlich
          Hello Firnagzen, ... The PNA4602 is meant to receive commands from a remote control. It goes low on the carrier signal, 38kHz, then receives the data. They go
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 4, 2006
            Hello Firnagzen,

            > By the way, the PNA4602's go low when they detect something.
            > (Why do they do it like that, anyway?)

            The PNA4602 is meant to receive commands from a remote control. It goes
            low on the carrier signal, 38kHz, then receives the data.

            They go low because the IR beam is not carrying any data. If there is
            data, for instance if the PNA4602 is triggered by a television remote,
            you'll see its output oscillating.

            J Wolfgang Goerlich
          • wilf
            Interesting subject. I suggest go back to the first circuit and iron out the bugs. For example, you cannot use a diode in parallel with an CMOS output. Also
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 4, 2006
              Interesting subject. I suggest go back to the first circuit and iron out the bugs.  For example, you cannot use a diode in parallel with an CMOS output. Also consider using a 74HC132 and use the transistors for driving LEDs.  Note that right rotation for searching/scanning always causes right detector to operate first. In effect, the right motor is on continuously while the left motor is reversed during scanning and goes forward when tracking and locked on.  When tracking or locked on, each motor duty cycle is controlled by the relative amount of light on each PNA sensor (for example see 40khz herbie3 circuit in my file folder).  A time delay of 1-2 seconds should be added so momentary loss of lock has a chance to be corrected by tracking and re-acquiring lock instead of immediately returning the sumo to scanning mode. Wanna have a go at the circuit?
               
              wilf
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: firnagzen
              Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 2:11 AM
              Subject: [beam] Re: Minisumo circuit

              Scary, I just pulled a Wilf Wrighter on myself. I added a couple of
              parts to imrpove the circuit, but I would still like someone to help
              me check this circuit.

              http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
              bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif

              Expected performance:
              -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
              -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND the
              left IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
              -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND the
              right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
              -When the left side sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND
              the left side IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
              -When the right side sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND
              the right side IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
              -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives foward

              Thanks.

              --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@...> wrote:
              >
              > Umm. I just cobbled together a minisumo opponent locating circuit,
              I'll
              > be building it sometime soon, but could someone help me check it
              for
              > obvious circuit errors first?
              >
              > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
              > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif
              >
              > What I'd like it to do is this:
              > -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
              > -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND the
              left
              > IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
              > -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND the
              > right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
              > -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives foward
              > -By the way, the PNA4602's go low when they detect something. (Why
              do
              > they do it like that, anyway?)
              >
              > Thanks in advance.
              >





            • wilf
              Hmm... got it backwards: right motor forward, left motor reverse means rotating to the left. ... From: wilf To: beam@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 04,
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 4, 2006
                Hmm... got it backwards:  right motor forward, left motor reverse means rotating to the left.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: wilf
                Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 3:13 PM
                Subject: Re: [beam] Re: Minisumo circuit

                Interesting subject. I suggest go back to the first circuit and iron out the bugs.  For example, you cannot use a diode in parallel with an CMOS output. Also consider using a 74HC132 and use the transistors for driving LEDs.  Note that right rotation for searching/scanning always causes right detector to operate first. In effect, the right motor is on continuously while the left motor is reversed during scanning and goes forward when tracking and locked on.  When tracking or locked on, each motor duty cycle is controlled by the relative amount of light on each PNA sensor (for example see 40khz herbie3 circuit in my file folder).  A time delay of 1-2 seconds should be added so momentary loss of lock has a chance to be corrected by tracking and re-acquiring lock instead of immediately returning the sumo to scanning mode. Wanna have a go at the circuit?
                 
                wilf
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: firnagzen
                Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 2:11 AM
                Subject: [beam] Re: Minisumo circuit

                Scary, I just pulled a Wilf Wrighter on myself. I added a couple of
                parts to imrpove the circuit, but I would still like someone to help
                me check this circuit.

                http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif

                Expected performance:
                -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
                -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND the
                left IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND the
                right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                -When the left side sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND
                the left side IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                -When the right side sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND
                the right side IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives foward

                Thanks.

                --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@...> wrote:
                >
                > Umm. I just cobbled together a minisumo opponent locating circuit,
                I'll
                > be building it sometime soon, but could someone help me check it
                for
                > obvious circuit errors first?
                >
                > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif
                >
                > What I'd like it to do is this:
                > -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
                > -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND the
                left
                > IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                > -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND the
                > right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                > -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives foward
                > -By the way, the PNA4602's go low when they detect something. (Why
                do
                > they do it like that, anyway?)
                >
                > Thanks in advance.
                >





              • firnagzen
                Mmm. Maybe I translated it wrongly, but my original circuit, which uses the logic gate symbols instead of the chip seems fine. I m uploading it as we speak...
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 4, 2006
                  Mmm. Maybe I translated it wrongly, but my original circuit, which
                  uses the logic gate symbols instead of the chip seems fine. I'm
                  uploading it as we speak...

                  http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                  bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic_logic.gif

                  Here.

                  --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "wilf" <wrigter@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hmm... got it backwards: right motor forward, left motor reverse
                  means rotating to the left.
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: wilf
                  > To: beam@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 3:13 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [beam] Re: Minisumo circuit
                  >
                  >
                  > Interesting subject. I suggest go back to the first circuit and
                  iron out the bugs. For example, you cannot use a diode in parallel
                  with an CMOS output. Also consider using a 74HC132 and use the
                  transistors for driving LEDs. Note that right rotation for
                  searching/scanning always causes right detector to operate first. In
                  effect, the right motor is on continuously while the left motor is
                  reversed during scanning and goes forward when tracking and locked
                  on. When tracking or locked on, each motor duty cycle is controlled
                  by the relative amount of light on each PNA sensor (for example see
                  40khz herbie3 circuit in my file folder). A time delay of 1-2
                  seconds should be added so momentary loss of lock has a chance to be
                  corrected by tracking and re-acquiring lock instead of immediately
                  returning the sumo to scanning mode. Wanna have a go at the circuit?
                  >
                  > wilf
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: firnagzen
                  > To: beam@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 2:11 AM
                  > Subject: [beam] Re: Minisumo circuit
                  >
                  >
                  > Scary, I just pulled a Wilf Wrighter on myself. I added a
                  couple of
                  > parts to imrpove the circuit, but I would still like someone to
                  help
                  > me check this circuit.
                  >
                  > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                  > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif
                  >
                  > Expected performance:
                  > -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
                  > -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND
                  the
                  > left IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                  > -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right AND
                  the
                  > right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                  > -When the left side sensor detects the opponent, it turns left
                  AND
                  > the left side IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                  > -When the right side sensor detects the opponent, it turns
                  right AND
                  > the right side IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                  > -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives foward
                  >
                  > Thanks.
                  >
                  > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Umm. I just cobbled together a minisumo opponent locating
                  circuit,
                  > I'll
                  > > be building it sometime soon, but could someone help me check
                  it
                  > for
                  > > obvious circuit errors first?
                  > >
                  > > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                  > > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif
                  > >
                  > > What I'd like it to do is this:
                  > > -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
                  > > -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND
                  the
                  > left
                  > > IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                  > > -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right
                  AND the
                  > > right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                  > > -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives
                  foward
                  > > -By the way, the PNA4602's go low when they detect something.
                  (Why
                  > do
                  > > they do it like that, anyway?)
                  > >
                  > > Thanks in advance.
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > SPONSORED LINKS Computer science distance education Computer
                  science course Computer science school
                  > Computer science degree Computer science and education
                  Computer science education
                  >
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  --------
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                  >
                  > a.. Visit your group "beam" on the web.
                  >
                  > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > beam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                  of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  --------
                  >
                • firnagzen
                  Gah, forgot to mention. In the logic tables at the bottom, the circle represents the robot, the box with the cross represents the opponent. And yes, I realise
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 4, 2006
                    Gah, forgot to mention. In the logic tables at the bottom, the circle
                    represents the robot, the box with the cross represents the opponent.

                    And yes, I realise that I added 2 diodes in this circuit.

                    --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Mmm. Maybe I translated it wrongly, but my original circuit, which
                    > uses the logic gate symbols instead of the chip seems fine. I'm
                    > uploading it as we speak...
                    >
                    > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                    > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic_logic.gif
                    >
                    > Here.
                    >
                    > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "wilf" <wrigter@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hmm... got it backwards: right motor forward, left motor reverse
                    > means rotating to the left.
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: wilf
                    > > To: beam@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 3:13 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [beam] Re: Minisumo circuit
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Interesting subject. I suggest go back to the first circuit and
                    > iron out the bugs. For example, you cannot use a diode in parallel
                    > with an CMOS output. Also consider using a 74HC132 and use the
                    > transistors for driving LEDs. Note that right rotation for
                    > searching/scanning always causes right detector to operate first.
                    In
                    > effect, the right motor is on continuously while the left motor is
                    > reversed during scanning and goes forward when tracking and locked
                    > on. When tracking or locked on, each motor duty cycle is
                    controlled
                    > by the relative amount of light on each PNA sensor (for example see
                    > 40khz herbie3 circuit in my file folder). A time delay of 1-2
                    > seconds should be added so momentary loss of lock has a chance to
                    be
                    > corrected by tracking and re-acquiring lock instead of immediately
                    > returning the sumo to scanning mode. Wanna have a go at the circuit?
                    > >
                    > > wilf
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: firnagzen
                    > > To: beam@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 2:11 AM
                    > > Subject: [beam] Re: Minisumo circuit
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Scary, I just pulled a Wilf Wrighter on myself. I added a
                    > couple of
                    > > parts to imrpove the circuit, but I would still like someone
                    to
                    > help
                    > > me check this circuit.
                    > >
                    > > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                    > > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif
                    > >
                    > > Expected performance:
                    > > -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
                    > > -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left AND
                    > the
                    > > left IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                    > > -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right
                    AND
                    > the
                    > > right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                    > > -When the left side sensor detects the opponent, it turns
                    left
                    > AND
                    > > the left side IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                    > > -When the right side sensor detects the opponent, it turns
                    > right AND
                    > > the right side IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                    > > -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives
                    foward
                    > >
                    > > Thanks.
                    > >
                    > > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Umm. I just cobbled together a minisumo opponent locating
                    > circuit,
                    > > I'll
                    > > > be building it sometime soon, but could someone help me
                    check
                    > it
                    > > for
                    > > > obvious circuit errors first?
                    > > >
                    > > > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                    > > > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic.gif
                    > > >
                    > > > What I'd like it to do is this:
                    > > > -When both sensors detect nothing, it spins on the spot
                    > > > -When the left sensor detects the opponent, it turns left
                    AND
                    > the
                    > > left
                    > > > IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                    > > > -When the right sensor detects the opponent, it turns right
                    > AND the
                    > > > right IR emitter temporarily steps up its output
                    > > > -When both sensors detect the opponent, the robot drives
                    > foward
                    > > > -By the way, the PNA4602's go low when they detect
                    something.
                    > (Why
                    > > do
                    > > > they do it like that, anyway?)
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks in advance.
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > SPONSORED LINKS Computer science distance education Computer
                    > science course Computer science school
                    > > Computer science degree Computer science and
                    education
                    > Computer science education
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                    --
                    > --------
                    > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    > >
                    > > a.. Visit your group "beam" on the web.
                    > >
                    > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > beam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                    Terms
                    > of Service.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                    --
                    > --------
                    > >
                    >
                  • Joseph Charles
                    Hi firnagzen, The input/output designations of your top inverters do not entirely match those shown in your logic chart. With the outputs of the PNA4602 s
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 5, 2006
                      Hi firnagzen,

                      The input/output designations of your top inverters do not entirely
                      match those shown in your logic chart.

                      With the outputs of the PNA4602's high, the outputs of the inverters
                      will be low. The diodes will be seen as an open circuit, and inputs J
                      and K will float. Output I will likely oscillate at a high frequency.

                      You could set initial states for inputs J and K by using pull-down
                      resistors.

                      What is the function of the PNP transistor between your motors, and
                      output I?

                      Your oscillator, and its output buffers, looks fine, but you will need
                      to drive the IR LED's with a transistor to get a decent output.

                      I'm not big on minisumo tactics, so could you explain why you want to
                      increase the output of the IR LED's when they detect the opponent?
                      (Have I got that right?)

                      Cheers,

                      Jo



                      > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Mmm. Maybe I translated it wrongly, but my original circuit, which
                      > > uses the logic gate symbols instead of the chip seems fine. I'm
                      > > uploading it as we speak...
                      > >
                      > > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                      > > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic_logic.gif
                      > >
                      > > Here.
                    • firnagzen
                      Big oops at the logic table: Changing it now. Umm. The transistor is to disable the turning. The robot, by default, is turning on the spot as the NAND gate I
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 5, 2006
                        Big oops at the logic table: Changing it now.

                        Umm. The transistor is to disable the turning. The robot, by default,
                        is turning on the spot as the NAND gate I is (supposed) to provide
                        a 'high' signal to one of the motors should either input be low. The
                        transistor disables the turning so that
                        the robot will track the opponent minisumo. (Ie. When F or H goes
                        high)

                        I want it to 'turn on the floodlights' when it spots the opponent so
                        that even if the detection is only fleeting (Ie. the opponent is
                        covered with some IR absorbing material, but there was a spot they
                        missed) so that the signal is clearer.

                        What values would you reccomend for the pull down resistors?

                        Added a diode to prevent oscillation of I.

                        I'm uploading the revised version right now, at:
                        http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                        bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic_logic2.gif


                        --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Charles" <jodicalhon@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi firnagzen,
                        >
                        > The input/output designations of your top inverters do not entirely
                        > match those shown in your logic chart.
                        >
                        > With the outputs of the PNA4602's high, the outputs of the inverters
                        > will be low. The diodes will be seen as an open circuit, and inputs
                        J
                        > and K will float. Output I will likely oscillate at a high
                        frequency.
                        >
                        > You could set initial states for inputs J and K by using pull-down
                        > resistors.
                        >
                        > What is the function of the PNP transistor between your motors, and
                        > output I?
                        >
                        > Your oscillator, and its output buffers, looks fine, but you will
                        need
                        > to drive the IR LED's with a transistor to get a decent output.
                        >
                        > I'm not big on minisumo tactics, so could you explain why you want
                        to
                        > increase the output of the IR LED's when they detect the opponent?
                        > (Have I got that right?)
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        >
                        > Jo
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Mmm. Maybe I translated it wrongly, but my original circuit,
                        which
                        > > > uses the logic gate symbols instead of the chip seems fine. I'm
                        > > > uploading it as we speak...
                        > > >
                        > > > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                        > > > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic_logic.gif
                        > > >
                        > > > Here.
                        >
                      • Joseph Charles
                        Thanks firnagzen. No offence, mate, but I find your schematic a bit confusing! Give me a chance to redraw it, so it makes sense to me, and I ll let you know
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 6, 2006
                          Thanks firnagzen. No offence, mate, but I find your schematic a bit
                          confusing! Give me a chance to redraw it, so it makes sense to me, and
                          I'll let you know what I think - for what it's worth. I've had a think
                          about what you need the bot to do, and understand a bit better.

                          Cheers

                          Jo


                          --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Big oops at the logic table: Changing it now.
                          >
                          > Umm. The transistor is to disable the turning. The robot, by default,
                          > is turning on the spot as the NAND gate I is (supposed) to provide
                          > a 'high' signal to one of the motors should either input be low. The
                          > transistor disables the turning so that
                          > the robot will track the opponent minisumo. (Ie. When F or H goes
                          > high)
                          >
                          > I want it to 'turn on the floodlights' when it spots the opponent so
                          > that even if the detection is only fleeting (Ie. the opponent is
                          > covered with some IR absorbing material, but there was a spot they
                          > missed) so that the signal is clearer.
                          >
                          > What values would you reccomend for the pull down resistors?
                          >
                          > Added a diode to prevent oscillation of I.
                          >
                          > I'm uploading the revised version right now, at:
                          > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                          > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic_logic2.gif
                        • firnagzen
                          Sure, go ahead. But, eh, I thought it was quite clear. Ah well, I m going to pick up some parts for the circuit tommorow, I rather hope I won t need any extra
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 6, 2006
                            Sure, go ahead.

                            But, eh, I thought it was quite clear.

                            Ah well, I'm going to pick up some parts for the circuit tommorow, I
                            rather hope I won't need any extra parts. I wonder if it'll work?
                            Hmm.

                            --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Charles" <jodicalhon@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Thanks firnagzen. No offence, mate, but I find your schematic a bit
                            > confusing! Give me a chance to redraw it, so it makes sense to me,
                            and
                            > I'll let you know what I think - for what it's worth. I've had a
                            think
                            > about what you need the bot to do, and understand a bit better.
                            >
                            > Cheers
                            >
                            > Jo
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Big oops at the logic table: Changing it now.
                            > >
                            > > Umm. The transistor is to disable the turning. The robot, by
                            default,
                            > > is turning on the spot as the NAND gate I is (supposed) to
                            provide
                            > > a 'high' signal to one of the motors should either input be low.
                            The
                            > > transistor disables the turning so that
                            > > the robot will track the opponent minisumo. (Ie. When F or H goes
                            > > high)
                            > >
                            > > I want it to 'turn on the floodlights' when it spots the
                            opponent so
                            > > that even if the detection is only fleeting (Ie. the opponent is
                            > > covered with some IR absorbing material, but there was a spot
                            they
                            > > missed) so that the signal is clearer.
                            > >
                            > > What values would you reccomend for the pull down resistors?
                            > >
                            > > Added a diode to prevent oscillation of I.
                            > >
                            > > I'm uploading the revised version right now, at:
                            > > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                            > > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic_logic2.gif
                            >
                          • mycroft2152
                            You might consider using DipTrace for your schematics. Its pretty simple to use. The free version will allow up to 250 pins, more than enough for BEAM
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 6, 2006
                              You might consider using DipTrace for your schematics. Its pretty
                              simple to use. The free version will allow up to 250 pins, more than
                              enough for BEAM circuits.

                              I've created a BEAM library for it will most of the symbols. if you
                              need a copy let me know.

                              TANSTAAFL!

                              Myc



                              --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Sure, go ahead.
                              >
                              > But, eh, I thought it was quite clear.
                              >
                              > Ah well, I'm going to pick up some parts for the circuit tommorow, I
                              > rather hope I won't need any extra parts. I wonder if it'll work?
                              > Hmm.
                              >
                              > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Charles" <jodicalhon@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Thanks firnagzen. No offence, mate, but I find your schematic a bit
                              > > confusing! Give me a chance to redraw it, so it makes sense to me,
                              > and
                              > > I'll let you know what I think - for what it's worth. I've had a
                              > think
                              > > about what you need the bot to do, and understand a bit better.
                              > >
                              > > Cheers
                              > >
                              > > Jo
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Big oops at the logic table: Changing it now.
                              > > >
                              > > > Umm. The transistor is to disable the turning. The robot, by
                              > default,
                              > > > is turning on the spot as the NAND gate I is (supposed) to
                              > provide
                              > > > a 'high' signal to one of the motors should either input be low.
                              > The
                              > > > transistor disables the turning so that
                              > > > the robot will track the opponent minisumo. (Ie. When F or H goes
                              > > > high)
                              > > >
                              > > > I want it to 'turn on the floodlights' when it spots the
                              > opponent so
                              > > > that even if the detection is only fleeting (Ie. the opponent is
                              > > > covered with some IR absorbing material, but there was a spot
                              > they
                              > > > missed) so that the signal is clearer.
                              > > >
                              > > > What values would you reccomend for the pull down resistors?
                              > > >
                              > > > Added a diode to prevent oscillation of I.
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm uploading the revised version right now, at:
                              > > > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                              > > > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic_logic2.gif
                              > >
                              >
                            • Joseph Charles
                              Unfortunately, I don t think it will work as it is. I missed the resistors down near the motors the first time around. They appear to bring the motor-control
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 7, 2006
                                Unfortunately, I don't think it will work as it is.

                                I missed the resistors down near the motors the first time around.
                                They appear to bring the motor-control NAND inputs low to start, but
                                as soon as I goes high, J pulls high and reverse biases the diode,
                                leaving the left input to float. Likewise, K is pulled high by the
                                base-emitter of the PNP, which pulls the right input high, etc.

                                What are you using for a motor driver?

                                There is a problem with your logic table. Going by the bottom entry, a
                                1 value for an output means motor forward. Your default behaviour has
                                J=1, K=0, which means the 'bot is rotating to the right. However, when
                                the left sensor triggers, (line 2), the 'bot continues to turn right.
                                The other sensor trigger lines show such reversed behaviour, until we
                                get to the last line, where J=1 and K=1, meaning both motors forward -
                                attack!

                                I wonder if you might be better off just pumping out the IR at maximum
                                all the time. With a lower initial output you might miss the initial
                                contact.

                                I've had a bit of a think - never a good thing - and can post a
                                revised schematic for the motor logic if you would like to see it. It
                                uses what you have in your schematic, just a couple of extra
                                resistors, but you gain a gate. The right motor is wired with reverse
                                as the default condition.

                                Cheers,

                                Jo


                                --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Sure, go ahead.
                                >
                                > But, eh, I thought it was quite clear.
                                >
                                > Ah well, I'm going to pick up some parts for the circuit tommorow, I
                                > rather hope I won't need any extra parts. I wonder if it'll work?
                                > Hmm.
                              • J Wolfgang Goerlich
                                Hello Jo, I would like to see what you have in mind. Care to share a schematic? Regarding the IR, it seems to me that increasing the level of IR emissions when
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jun 7, 2006
                                  Hello Jo,

                                  I would like to see what you have in mind. Care to share a schematic?

                                  Regarding the IR, it seems to me that increasing the level of IR
                                  emissions when you have found the opponent would give your position
                                  away. Assuming, of course, the opponent is using the same frequency
                                  IR as your mini is. I wonder about the efficacy of disabling the
                                  sensors when contact with the opponent is made. That is, find the
                                  fellow and then go into a stealth mode.

                                  J Wolfgang Goerlich

                                  Post Script: I am burning the CD and will have it in the post
                                  tomorrow.


                                  Jo wrote:

                                  > I've had a bit of a think - never a good thing - and can post a
                                  > revised schematic for the motor logic if you would like to see it.
                                  > It uses what you have in your schematic, just a couple of extra
                                  > resistors, but you gain a gate.
                                • firnagzen
                                  Bah... I went and picked up some components and I got cheated. ( Oh yes, it IS a PNA4602! There was no pin number. Gah.) Oh well, I ll build the rest of the
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jun 7, 2006
                                    Bah... I went and picked up some components and I got cheated. ("Oh
                                    yes, it IS a PNA4602!" There was no pin number. Gah.)

                                    Oh well, I'll build the rest of the circuit and see if it works. I'd
                                    be interested in the schematic though.



                                    --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "J Wolfgang Goerlich" <jwgoerlich@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hello Jo,
                                    >
                                    > I would like to see what you have in mind. Care to share a
                                    schematic?
                                    >
                                    > Regarding the IR, it seems to me that increasing the level of IR
                                    > emissions when you have found the opponent would give your
                                    position
                                    > away. Assuming, of course, the opponent is using the same
                                    frequency
                                    > IR as your mini is. I wonder about the efficacy of disabling the
                                    > sensors when contact with the opponent is made. That is, find the
                                    > fellow and then go into a stealth mode.
                                    >
                                    > J Wolfgang Goerlich
                                    >
                                    > Post Script: I am burning the CD and will have it in the post
                                    > tomorrow.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Jo wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > I've had a bit of a think - never a good thing - and can post a
                                    > > revised schematic for the motor logic if you would like to see
                                    it.
                                    > > It uses what you have in your schematic, just a couple of extra
                                    > > resistors, but you gain a gate.
                                    >
                                  • firnagzen
                                    Sure, I d appreciate that. Thanks. What exactly does TANSTAAFL stand for, by the way? ... than ... tommorow, I ... work? ... a bit ... me, ... a ... low. ...
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jun 7, 2006
                                      Sure, I'd appreciate that. Thanks.

                                      What exactly does TANSTAAFL stand for, by the way?

                                      --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "mycroft2152" <mycroft2152@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > You might consider using DipTrace for your schematics. Its pretty
                                      > simple to use. The free version will allow up to 250 pins, more
                                      than
                                      > enough for BEAM circuits.
                                      >
                                      > I've created a BEAM library for it will most of the symbols. if you
                                      > need a copy let me know.
                                      >
                                      > TANSTAAFL!
                                      >
                                      > Myc
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Sure, go ahead.
                                      > >
                                      > > But, eh, I thought it was quite clear.
                                      > >
                                      > > Ah well, I'm going to pick up some parts for the circuit
                                      tommorow, I
                                      > > rather hope I won't need any extra parts. I wonder if it'll
                                      work?
                                      > > Hmm.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Charles" <jodicalhon@>
                                      wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks firnagzen. No offence, mate, but I find your schematic
                                      a bit
                                      > > > confusing! Give me a chance to redraw it, so it makes sense to
                                      me,
                                      > > and
                                      > > > I'll let you know what I think - for what it's worth. I've had
                                      a
                                      > > think
                                      > > > about what you need the bot to do, and understand a bit better.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Cheers
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Jo
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Big oops at the logic table: Changing it now.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Umm. The transistor is to disable the turning. The robot, by
                                      > > default,
                                      > > > > is turning on the spot as the NAND gate I is (supposed) to
                                      > > provide
                                      > > > > a 'high' signal to one of the motors should either input be
                                      low.
                                      > > The
                                      > > > > transistor disables the turning so that
                                      > > > > the robot will track the opponent minisumo. (Ie. When F or H
                                      goes
                                      > > > > high)
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I want it to 'turn on the floodlights' when it spots the
                                      > > opponent so
                                      > > > > that even if the detection is only fleeting (Ie. the
                                      opponent is
                                      > > > > covered with some IR absorbing material, but there was a
                                      spot
                                      > > they
                                      > > > > missed) so that the signal is clearer.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > What values would you reccomend for the pull down resistors?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Added a diode to prevent oscillation of I.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I'm uploading the revised version right now, at:
                                      > > > > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                                      > > > > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic_logic2.gif
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Mycroft2152
                                      TANASTAAFL is a very famous acronym for: There Ain t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch Try googling it. It s got a interesting background. You might also get a
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jun 7, 2006
                                        TANASTAAFL is a very famous acronym for:

                                        There
                                        Ain't
                                        No
                                        Such
                                        Thing
                                        As
                                        A
                                        Free
                                        Lunch


                                        Try googling it. It's got a interesting background.
                                        You might also get a clue on who "Mycroft Holmes" is.

                                        Myc

                                        --- firnagzen <slung@...> wrote:

                                        > Sure, I'd appreciate that. Thanks.
                                        >
                                        > What exactly does TANSTAAFL stand for, by the way?
                                        >
                                        > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "mycroft2152"
                                        > <mycroft2152@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > You might consider using DipTrace for your
                                        > schematics. Its pretty
                                        > > simple to use. The free version will allow up to
                                        > 250 pins, more
                                        > than
                                        > > enough for BEAM circuits.
                                        > >
                                        > > I've created a BEAM library for it will most of
                                        > the symbols. if you
                                        > > need a copy let me know.
                                        > >
                                        > > TANSTAAFL!
                                        > >
                                        > > Myc
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Sure, go ahead.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > But, eh, I thought it was quite clear.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Ah well, I'm going to pick up some parts for the
                                        > circuit
                                        > tommorow, I
                                        > > > rather hope I won't need any extra parts. I
                                        > wonder if it'll
                                        > work?
                                        > > > Hmm.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Charles"
                                        > <jodicalhon@>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Thanks firnagzen. No offence, mate, but I find
                                        > your schematic
                                        > a bit
                                        > > > > confusing! Give me a chance to redraw it, so
                                        > it makes sense to
                                        > me,
                                        > > > and
                                        > > > > I'll let you know what I think - for what it's
                                        > worth. I've had
                                        > a
                                        > > > think
                                        > > > > about what you need the bot to do, and
                                        > understand a bit better.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Cheers
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Jo
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen"
                                        > <slung@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Big oops at the logic table: Changing it
                                        > now.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Umm. The transistor is to disable the
                                        > turning. The robot, by
                                        > > > default,
                                        > > > > > is turning on the spot as the NAND gate I is
                                        > (supposed) to
                                        > > > provide
                                        > > > > > a 'high' signal to one of the motors should
                                        > either input be
                                        > low.
                                        > > > The
                                        > > > > > transistor disables the turning so that
                                        > > > > > the robot will track the opponent minisumo.
                                        > (Ie. When F or H
                                        > goes
                                        > > > > > high)
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I want it to 'turn on the floodlights' when
                                        > it spots the
                                        > > > opponent so
                                        > > > > > that even if the detection is only fleeting
                                        > (Ie. the
                                        > opponent is
                                        > > > > > covered with some IR absorbing material, but
                                        > there was a
                                        > spot
                                        > > > they
                                        > > > > > missed) so that the signal is clearer.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > What values would you reccomend for the pull
                                        > down resistors?
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Added a diode to prevent oscillation of I.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I'm uploading the revised version right now,
                                        > at:
                                        > > > > > http://www.maj.com/gallery/nuts-about-
                                        > > > > > bionicle/BEAM/minisumo_schematic_logic2.gif
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


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                                      • Joseph Charles
                                        No worries. I ve done two versions. The second one is along the lines of what firnagzen had in mind. I ve just added some resistors around the PNP transistor,
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jun 8, 2006
                                          No worries.

                                          I've done two versions. The second one is along the lines of what
                                          firnagzen had in mind. I've just added some resistors around the PNP
                                          transistor, that has the bot turning, so that it works. I've also
                                          added buffers to aid with interfacing to the motor driver.

                                          The buffers had to come from somewhere, so 'turn on the IR
                                          floodlights' has gone.

                                          The first version just uses a different arrangement of gates to
                                          achieve the same result. Both outputs generate a 'high' by default,
                                          but the right motor is wired so that reverse is its default condition.
                                          In fact, in both versions you would wire the motors so that, without
                                          any sensor action, the bot rotates right. Sort of obvious, I guess!
                                          The transistor in the middle of all the gates is just acting as an
                                          inverter, so it could be replaced with one of the spare gates.

                                          I've added a simple pulse-stretcher for the sensors, as suggested by
                                          Wilf, to help the 'bot keep tracking an opponent should sensor contact
                                          be momentarily lost. Otherwise it would go straight back to rotating.

                                          This minisumo still lacks any edge-detection. Do you have a scheme in
                                          mind, firnagzen?

                                          Comments, bug reports, etc - let's hear 'em! I know as soon as I
                                          upload it I'll see several errors!

                                          Cheers,

                                          Jo



                                          > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "J Wolfgang Goerlich" <jwgoerlich@>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Hello Jo,
                                          > >
                                          > > I would like to see what you have in mind. Care to share a
                                          > schematic?
                                        • Joseph Charles
                                          Thank you once again, Wolfgang. I m really looking forward to it! Jo
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jun 8, 2006
                                            Thank you once again, Wolfgang. I'm really looking forward to it!

                                            Jo

                                            --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "J Wolfgang Goerlich" <jwgoerlich@...> wrote:

                                            > Post Script: I am burning the CD and will have it in the post
                                            > tomorrow.
                                          • J Wolfgang Goerlich
                                            Good show, that makes sense. As for edge detection, perhaps those two spare gates in series with the motor driving gates, with differing time- outs for a
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jun 8, 2006
                                              Good show, that makes sense. As for edge detection, perhaps those two
                                              spare gates in series with the motor driving gates, with differing time-
                                              outs for a reverse and turn.

                                              Now, what happens when your opponent sneaks up behind your mini? Should
                                              we add in rear-facing IR?

                                              Jo Charles posted:
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beam/files/Jo%
                                              20C/Minisumo_circuit_2_versions..GIF

                                              And then Jo penned:
                                              > This minisumo still lacks any edge-detection. Do you have a
                                              > scheme in mind, firnagzen?
                                            • firnagzen
                                              Thanks for the help. Hm, as for the turning, this was just the search section of the minisumo, the rest is yet to be determined. I was thinking of using
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jun 8, 2006
                                                Thanks for the help. Hm, as for the turning, this was just
                                                the 'search' section of the minisumo, the rest is yet to be
                                                determined. I was thinking of using something like the JBB minisumo.

                                                --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "J Wolfgang Goerlich" <jwgoerlich@...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Good show, that makes sense. As for edge detection, perhaps those
                                                two
                                                > spare gates in series with the motor driving gates, with differing
                                                time-
                                                > outs for a reverse and turn.
                                                >
                                                > Now, what happens when your opponent sneaks up behind your mini?
                                                Should
                                                > we add in rear-facing IR?
                                                >
                                                > Jo Charles posted:
                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beam/files/Jo%
                                                > 20C/Minisumo_circuit_2_versions..GIF
                                                >
                                                > And then Jo penned:
                                                > > This minisumo still lacks any edge-detection. Do you have a
                                                > > scheme in mind, firnagzen?
                                                >
                                              • Joseph Charles
                                                You re welcome, firnagzen. I ve had a good time, and learned a few things. Your original idea was very sound, it just needed some tidying up. I certainly
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jun 9, 2006
                                                  You're welcome, firnagzen. I've had a good time, and learned a few things.

                                                  Your original idea was very sound, it just needed some tidying up. I
                                                  certainly wouldn't have thought of it, I'm sure. I was a bit
                                                  non-plussed by it, to tell the truth, so I just set about working out
                                                  the control logic you wanted my way (i.e. I just blundered about a
                                                  bit), which led to v1. Then I thought I'd better have a better look at
                                                  your idea again, and saw that it could work, hence v2, which is
                                                  basically your circuit.

                                                  It struck me at lunchtime today that you might only need the PNP to
                                                  control the logic, you can drop the attached gate. So I've just done a
                                                  quick breadboard, only driving LED's not motors, and it seems to work
                                                  fine!

                                                  Hence version 3, which I'll post right now. You gain another gate.
                                                  In fact, all the other gates are just used as buffers/inverters, so
                                                  you could use just about anything you liked, you don't need the NAND's.

                                                  Cheers, mate.

                                                  Jo

                                                  --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Thanks for the help. Hm, as for the turning, this was just
                                                  > the 'search' section of the minisumo, the rest is yet to be
                                                  > determined. I was thinking of using something like the JBB minisumo.
                                                • Joseph Charles
                                                  Hi Wolfgang, I wonder if edge detection will only be needed when the bot is driving straight and pushing an opponent. Or maybe, still driving straight after
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jun 9, 2006
                                                    Hi Wolfgang,

                                                    I wonder if edge detection will only be needed when the 'bot is
                                                    driving straight and pushing an opponent. Or maybe, still driving
                                                    straight after just missing an opponent, depending on the time-out of
                                                    the sensor delays. At other times I imagine it would be rotating in
                                                    one place, hoping for a target to come within range. It's hard to
                                                    visualise what a match would be like.

                                                    Rear-facing IR might be interesting. I wonder what sort of strategy is
                                                    best if a rear sensor event takes place. Do you turn the back of your
                                                    'bot to face (or rather, bottom!) the threat? If so, the right-rear
                                                    sensor might rotate the 'bot left, much like the front-left sensor,
                                                    and vice versa for the left-rear sensor. In which case you could
                                                    connect like sensors in parallel. Both rear sensors triggering
                                                    together would be interesting, though! The 'bot would run forward,
                                                    away from the threat, but this would aid the opponent if it was
                                                    pushing. Needs more thought!

                                                    Jo


                                                    --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "J Wolfgang Goerlich" <jwgoerlich@...> wrote:

                                                    > Good show, that makes sense. As for edge detection, perhaps those
                                                    two spare gates in series with the motor driving gates, with differing
                                                    time-outs for a reverse and turn.
                                                    >
                                                    > Now, what happens when your opponent sneaks up behind your mini?
                                                    Should we add in rear-facing IR?
                                                  • firnagzen
                                                    And now the whole circuit can be built on a single 74H/AC14 chip now. Cool! By the way, for the rear facing sensor, wouldn t it be better if a shorter ranged
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jun 9, 2006
                                                      And now the whole circuit can be built on a single 74H/AC14 chip now.
                                                      Cool!

                                                      By the way, for the rear facing sensor, wouldn't it be better if a
                                                      shorter ranged sensor is used? Ie. 5cm range as opposed to ~30cm?
                                                      It's feasible to use a phototransistor-IRED pair and hook it up to
                                                      either of the detector-buffer-gates, isn't it?

                                                      --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Charles" <jodicalhon@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > You're welcome, firnagzen. I've had a good time, and learned a few
                                                      things.
                                                      >
                                                      > Your original idea was very sound, it just needed some tidying up. I
                                                      > certainly wouldn't have thought of it, I'm sure. I was a bit
                                                      > non-plussed by it, to tell the truth, so I just set about working
                                                      out
                                                      > the control logic you wanted my way (i.e. I just blundered about a
                                                      > bit), which led to v1. Then I thought I'd better have a better look
                                                      at
                                                      > your idea again, and saw that it could work, hence v2, which is
                                                      > basically your circuit.
                                                      >
                                                      > It struck me at lunchtime today that you might only need the PNP to
                                                      > control the logic, you can drop the attached gate. So I've just
                                                      done a
                                                      > quick breadboard, only driving LED's not motors, and it seems to
                                                      work
                                                      > fine!
                                                      >
                                                      > Hence version 3, which I'll post right now. You gain another gate.
                                                      > In fact, all the other gates are just used as buffers/inverters, so
                                                      > you could use just about anything you liked, you don't need the
                                                      NAND's.
                                                      >
                                                      > Cheers, mate.
                                                      >
                                                      > Jo
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Thanks for the help. Hm, as for the turning, this was just
                                                      > > the 'search' section of the minisumo, the rest is yet to be
                                                      > > determined. I was thinking of using something like the JBB
                                                      minisumo.
                                                      >
                                                    • Joseph Charles
                                                      I m really not sure about the best strategy to employ, as I have no experience in minisumo competition. Or in minisumo building for that matter! If you wanted
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Jun 10, 2006
                                                        I'm really not sure about the best strategy to employ, as I have no
                                                        experience in minisumo competition. Or in minisumo building for that
                                                        matter!

                                                        If you wanted a rear sensor to duplicate one of the motor states that
                                                        are caused by the front sensors, I can't see why you couldn't OR it to
                                                        an input gate via a diode, like the front sensors.

                                                        Jo

                                                        --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "firnagzen" <slung@...> wrote:

                                                        > By the way, for the rear facing sensor, wouldn't it be better if a
                                                        > shorter ranged sensor is used? Ie. 5cm range as opposed to ~30cm?
                                                        > It's feasible to use a phototransistor-IRED pair and hook it up to
                                                        > either of the detector-buffer-gates, isn't it?
                                                      • Tom
                                                        ... is ... I would say you don t want to turn your back on an opponent. Many matches are lost by having an opponent attack from the rear. My Four- Eyes
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Jun 10, 2006
                                                          --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Charles" <jodicalhon@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Rear-facing IR might be interesting. I wonder what sort of strategy
                                                          is
                                                          > best if a rear sensor event takes place. Do you turn the back of your
                                                          > 'bot to face (or rather, bottom!) the threat?
                                                          >
                                                          I would say you don't want to turn your back on an opponent. Many
                                                          matches are lost by having an opponent attack from the rear. My Four-
                                                          Eyes minisumo (based on a Solarbotics Sumovore) used a spin-on-the-
                                                          spot to face strategy that is fairly effective.
                                                        • Joseph Charles
                                                          So firnagzen s minisumo might use a rear sensor event to bring about a return to its initial, spinning state? When the front sensors trigger, the bot would
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Jun 11, 2006
                                                            So firnagzen's minisumo might use a rear sensor event to bring about a
                                                            return to its initial, spinning state? When the front sensors trigger,
                                                            the 'bot would attack as normal.

                                                            Does the spin-on-the-spot move risk exposing the side of the minisumo?
                                                            From what has been said, this is a weak position to be in. Hard to see
                                                            how to avoid it, though.

                                                            Jo

                                                            --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <grayed@...> wrote:

                                                            > I would say you don't want to turn your back on an opponent. Many
                                                            > matches are lost by having an opponent attack from the rear. My Four-
                                                            > Eyes minisumo (based on a Solarbotics Sumovore) used a spin-on-the-
                                                            > spot to face strategy that is fairly effective.
                                                            >
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