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Re: Li Ion battery / charger

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  • Harold R. Ilano
    Hi guys! happy new year!!! Well, I just thought of putting these links from e-bay...regarding the universal battery charger. Here are for those who wants it,
    Message 1 of 1004 , Dec 31, 2005
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      Hi guys! happy new year!!!

      Well, I just thought of putting these links from e-bay...regarding
      the universal battery charger. Here are for those who wants it,
      enjoy!

      http://search.ebay.com/universal-battery-charger_W0QQfromZR40


      http://cgi.ebay.com/Universal-Mobile-Cell-Phone-Battery-Wall-Travel-
      Charger_W0QQitemZ5846481860QQcategoryZ41332QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

      http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Universal-Mobile-Phone-Battery-Wall-Travel-
      Charger_W0QQitemZ5847157412QQcategoryZ41328QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


      ...Harold.





      --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "wilf_nv" <wrigter@d...> wrote:
      >
      > First the usual warni1ng. Only people who understand the dangers
      of
      > working with batteries and who are experienced in actually
      > experimenting with them, should attempt to build and use batteries
      > and battery chargers. Batteries of any kind contain chemicals and
      a
      > lot of stored energy. If mishandled, batteries can cause fire and
      > explosions. In experimenting with circuits, batteries and
      chargers,
      > any risk to life, limb and property is your own reponsibility.
      >
      > Ok having said that, it is possible to safely share some
      information.
      > Like many, I have some experience in using rechargable batteries
      and
      > although I have not made study of them, I have noticed over time
      that
      > battery life and capacity can vary all over the map. It seems the
      > usable lifetime of all different rechargable battery technologies,
      is
      > quite unpredictable with large statistical variations in actual
      use.
      >
      > I have personally used and replaced almost one hundred 12V-7Ahr
      Lead
      > Acid GelCell batteries in the last 5 years. These were used in the
      > same .1C application and charged with the battery manufacturer's
      own
      > constant current, voltage limiting charger . The lifetime of those
      > 12V batteries ranged between 20 and 200 charge and discharge
      cycles.
      > That's a 10 to 1 spread!
      >
      > Some brands were more reliable than others but all of them had at
      > least a 2 to 1 spread in usable life (the number of cycles to 20%
      > remaining capacity). The best correlation of failures was the
      batch
      > factor. Purchased at different times in small batch of 4 or 6,
      some
      > batteries did significantly better or worse than other batteries
      of
      > the same or different brands bought at different times.
      >
      > Similarly I have used NiCd battery packs in pertools and handheld
      > radios and phones and I find that they often pack it in well
      before
      > their rated life.
      >
      > My best experience has been with single Li-Ion cells closely
      > monitored and used within their rated voltage and current limits.
      >
      > Unless treated as individual cells, rechargable multicell battery
      > packs of any kind seem to have worse reliability because of
      > the "weakest link" syndrome.
      >
      > If one Li-Ion cell fails in the pack, a lot of smart chargers will
      > sense this and refuse to charge the entire battery pack and it
      gets
      > tossed out.
      >
      > The good news, for those who can use it, is that there is usually
      a
      > lot of life left in the remaining good cells of such a failed
      battery
      > pack. I have recovered many re-usable Li-Ion cells from "dead"
      > unchargable battery packs in which just one or two cells had gone
      > bad. The life of the remaining cells is often better then the
      initial
      > life of the battery pack as the weak links have been eliminated.
      >
      > Li-Ion batteries and super capacitors technology and chemistry
      have a
      > lot in common. They are theorectically rechargable many times. But
      > even under perfect working conditions, over many charge and
      discharge
      > cycles, there is some loss of capacity over time. Moreover, a
      single
      > case of overcharging or overdischarging can lead to sudden and
      > permanent loss of capacity of a cell.
      >
      > Most batteries do no like being overcharged but NiCds will
      tolerate a
      > small trickle charge even when fully charged. Li-Ion cells on the
      > other hand, do not tolerate overcharging or trickle charging at
      all
      > above their maximum fully changed voltage 4.1V or 4.2V /cell
      > depending on the specific type. Keeping the maximum voltage cutoff
      > level lower, ie at 4.0V, will cell reduce capacity but also extend
      > the life of Li-Ion bateries.
      >
      >
      > Unlike NiCd batteries, which occasionally need to be deep
      discharged
      > to avoid "memory" effects, Li-Ion batteries would be permanently
      > damaged if the cell voltage drops much below 3V. In multicell
      > batteries, it is common for the cell with an initially slightly
      > capacity cell to become weaker as it is more and more damaged with
      > repeated charge and discharges that cause that cell to experience
      > voltage levels that are beyond the safe min and max operating
      > limits.
      >
      > In an ideal Li-Ion battery pack, each cell would have its own
      voltage
      > monitor circuit, that protects that cell against all excessive
      > operating conditions without compromising the operation of the
      other
      > cells. Still the entire pack is only as good as it's weakest link.
      >
      > Li-Ion Battery packs with protection of individual cells exist and
      > together with recommended chargers and smart owners, such packs
      > generally live a long and happy life.
      >
      > wilf
      >
      > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "Dbhnewton" <dbhnewton@b...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Just for some further info in Li Ion batts peeps. It's my
      > understanding
      > > (from talking to a guy who refurbishes batteries for power tools
      as
      > a
      > > business) that these (LI Ion) batteries 'die' and become totally
      US
      > after a
      > > period of time regardless of whether they are used or not. Can
      > anyone
      > > confirm this or give us some further info? I tend to believe it
      as
      > all three
      > > of my laptop batteries 'died' with in two months of one another
      > even though
      > > one had been hardly used...
      > > David
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: beam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:beam@yahoogroups.com]On
      Behalf
      > Of
      > > Mycroft2152
      > > Sent: 29 December 2005 11:49
      > > To: beam@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: Re: [beam] Li Ion battery / charger
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi Eric,
      > >
      > > Thanks for the info. Of course, I had to look 'under
      > > the hood' and see what was inside the battery case of
      > > my old Nokia phone. I'll post a photo shortly.
      > >
      > >
      > > After reading up on the LI Ion batteries, leaving in
      > > the protection circuit makes a lot of sense!
      > >
      > >
      > > I did check the AC adapter and found it only provides
      > > 3.6 volts DC at 50 milliamps. I guess that's further
      > > protection.
      > >
      > >
      > > I'll add to the caution statement: THIS IS FOR
      > > ADVANCED BEAMERS ONLY!. This is the one device that
      > > can catch fire or explode!, if not handled properly.
      > > It is NOT as forgiving as many of our BEAMish designs.
      > >
      > > I did a search for the Universal battery charger that
      > > Harold was using. There are anumber of them on ebay.
      > > They are actually pretty inexpensive, around $12
      > > including shipping.
      > >
      > > In fact here is one that includes a LI Ion battery:
      > >
      > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/HIGH-CAP-BATTERY-UNIVERSAL-CHARGER-4-LG-
      > VX3200-VX3300
      > > _W0QQitemZ5846203836QQcategoryZ35153QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>
      > >
      > > Yahoo shouldn't have split the lines as the link was
      > > enclosed in "< >"
      > >
      > > Or just search EBAY for "universal battery charger.
      > >
      > >
      > > Thanks to Harold for adding the Li Ion batttery to our
      > > BEAM toolbox. Its light weight and power density are
      > > definite advantages over using the 4 AA battery packs.
      > >
      > > TANSTAAFL,
      > >
      > > Myc
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- eric_cuzzort <eric_cuzzort@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > Hi Myc,
      > > >
      > > > If you are using scavenged cell phone batteries it
      > > > is best to leave
      > > > them in the plastic case they're in. It only adds a
      > > > little to the
      > > > weight of the cell, and inside there is the all
      > > > important
      > > > over-current, over-voltage over-temperature
      > > > protection circuitry that
      > > > will save you if you make a mistake on the charger
      > > > and it tries to
      > > > overcharge the battery.
      > > >
      > > > Keeping the protection circuitry in place may save
      > > > you (and me) from a
      > > > rather dangerous accident.
      > > >
      > > > Eric
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "mycroft2152"
      > > > <mycroft2152@y...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi Wilf.
      > > > >
      > > > > I've got a few old cell phone batteries too,
      > > > courtesy of my
      > > > > daughters ugrades, which I paid for :)
      > > > >
      > > > > Could you explain how the upper and lower linits
      > > > are determined with
      > > > > the 1381K and 1381J voltage detectors. according
      > > > to the data sheet
      > > > > the J is 2.9 volts max and the K is 3.1 volts
      > > > max.
      > > > >
      > > > > Many thanks.
      > > > >
      > > > > Myc
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "wilf_nv"
      > > > <wrigter@d...> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Firstly a warning: Li-Ion/Li-Po cells are
      > > > potentially dangerous as
      > > > > > they can catch on fire if not used properly.
      > > > That means, Li-Ion is
      > > > > > NOT recommended for beginners and everyone else
      > > > using this circuit
      > > > > > does so at their own risk.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Hi Eric,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > This circuit was the result of some offline
      > > > correspondence on an
      > > > > > application that required the solar cell to keep
      > > > the Li-Ion cell
      > > > > > topped up over long periods of time. The AC
      > > > adapter can charge
      > > > > the
      > > > > > 170mAhr battery in about 4 hours while the solar
      > > > cell would take a
      > > > > > few days. The solar cell is used mostly for
      > > > trickle charging but
      > > > > > since Li-Ion cells do not tolerate overcharging
      > > > (even at low
      > > > > > current), a 1381 was added to cutoff the main
      > > > 50mA charging
      > > > > current
      > > > > > as well as the solar trickel charging at 4.2V.
      > > > Similarlly the load
      > > > > is
      > > > > > disconneted when the Li-Ion cell voltage drops
      > > > below 3V as the Li-
      > > > > Ion
      > > > > > cell does not tolerate a deep discharge.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The final design of this circuit uses surface
      > > > mounted components
      > > > > > including some hard to get powermosfet chips. I
      > > > posted this
      > > > > version
      > > > > > which uses common Beam components and the solar
      > > > cell to share the
      > > > > > idea with the group. The circuit can be simplify
      > > > to just AC
      > > > > adapter
      > > > > > charging by leaving off the solar cell.
      > > > Alternately, for solar
      > > > > only
      > > > > > charging you can use the simplified circuit as
      > > > shown here
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beam/files/wilf_nv/1381_over_under_Li_p
      > > > > o
      > > > > > .gif
      > > > > >
      > > > > > best
      > > > > >
      > > > > > wilf
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com, "eric_cuzzort"
      > > > <eric_cuzzort@y...>
      > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Hi Wilf,
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > As usual, great circuit! It is also perfect
      > > > timing as I just
      > > > > > dicected
      > > > > > > some cell phones and scavenged 3 lithium ion
      > > > batteries. I have a
      > > > > > > question about the circuit you posted though.
      > > > What is the
      > > > > purpose
      > > > > > of
      > > > > > > the solar cell in the circuit? Is it required
      > > > for the circuit to
      > > > > > > work, or could it be replaced with some other
      > > > component?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Thanks
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Eric
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In beam@yahoogroups.com,
      > > > beam@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Hello,
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > This email message is a notification to let
      > > > you know that
      > > > > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area
      > > > of the beam
      > > > > > > > group.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > File : /wilf_nv/Beam_Li_Ion_Charger
      > > > .gif
      > > > > > > > Uploaded by : wilf_nv <wrigter@d...>
      > > > > > > > Description : Single Li-Ion Cell (4.2V)
      > > > Solar charger.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > You can access this file at the URL:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beam/files/wilf_nv/Beam_Li_Ion_Charger%
      > > > > > 20.gif
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your
      > > > group, please visit:
      > > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Regards,
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > wilf_nv <wrigter@d...>
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > __________________________________________
      > > Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
      > > Just $16.99/mo. or less.
      > > dsl.yahoo.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
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    • beam@yahoogroups.com
      Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the beam group. File :
      Message 1004 of 1004 , Dec 29, 2012
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        Hello,

        This email message is a notification to let you know that
        a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the beam
        group.

        File : /yahmez_alpha/triclops.GIF
        Uploaded by : yahmez_alpha <curbwax@...>
        Description : 3 eyed light seeking symet

        You can access this file at the URL:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beam/files/yahmez_alpha/triclops.GIF

        To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
        http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html
        Regards,

        yahmez_alpha <curbwax@...>
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