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stupid heads..

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  • jennyrolfe
    I ve been trying various types of head, a nice fled based one and three of four variations on the power smart head thingy but I want these things to be solar
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 1, 2002
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      I've been trying various types of head, a nice fled based one and
      three of four variations on the power smart head thingy but I want
      these things to be solar powered and they just don't seem to have
      enough power. I only have HC or HCT chips so I guess this could be
      part of the problem but none of my heads want to even try to ossilate
      (sp?). They will work in little bursts and turn towards the light and
      will with encouragement turn the other way but no wiggling back and
      forth....

      Now I know there are probably several factors adding up here, not
      enough power from the solar cell/solar engine, cap too small, motor
      not effecient enough, chip the wrong flavor, bad soldering and
      whatever else but athe biggest problem I have is deciding which type
      to make next so heres where I need your help...

      I need suggestions on what is the easyest/most reliable head to
      build. Should I start with a battery powered one (yeuk) or keep
      trying to get solar ones wiggling?

      sugestions please...

      thanks
      jenny
    • Richard Caudle
      Hello Jenny, My best guess is that your motor is not up to the task. You really should be using a gearmotor of some sort. You can goto your local Goodwill
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1, 2002
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        Hello Jenny,

        My best guess is that your motor is not up to the task. You really
        should be using a gearmotor of some sort. You can goto your local
        Goodwill and get some RC cars for about $20 and take those motors out
        and with a little modification can be used quite well. You could
        also look at the size of your storage caps. That would account for
        the short bursts of activity. If you don't have any large caps, you
        can put several small ones in parallel to increase the capaicty.

        I've had some success with using a variation of [TA]Wilf's ProHead.
        You can find that one on his solarbotics.net site.

        Keep up the good work!

        F-diddy
      • Wrighter
        Let me see if I understand the problem correctly: The head will turn toward the light, and then stop? It doesn t scan back and forth, looking for the light?
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1, 2002
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          Let me see if I understand the problem correctly:
          The head will turn toward the light, and then stop? It doesn't "scan"
          back and forth, looking for the light? If you want it to scan back
          and forth, then the Solarpowered smart head is not for you. The
          solarpowered smart head is designed to simply turn toward the light,
          and stop when it finds the brightest light. That way, it doesn't
          continually expend energy scanning back and forth. If I've understood
          the problem correctly, then your bots are actually working exactly as
          they are supposed to. They just aren't doing what you expected. ;-)
          Check out the Beastiary on solarbotics.net. There are some heads in
          there that continually scan back and forth, looking for the brightest
          light. However, this uses alot of energy, so most heads of this sort
          run on batteries. If you had a really efficient motor, you might be
          able to get it solarpowered. Anyway, check out these links:
          http://www.beam-online.com/Robots/Circuits/circuits.html#Phototropic
          Bicore

          http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/6608/Bots/Bender/index.html

          http://home.wanadoo.nl/m.m.avos/c_lighthead2.htm

          If I've misunderstood, my apologies

          Cheers,
          Wrighter


          --- In beam@y..., "jennyrolfe" <rolfejenny@h...> wrote:
          > I've been trying various types of head, a nice fled based one and
          > three of four variations on the power smart head thingy but I want
          > these things to be solar powered and they just don't seem to have
          > enough power. I only have HC or HCT chips so I guess this could be
          > part of the problem but none of my heads want to even try to
          ossilate
          > (sp?). They will work in little bursts and turn towards the light
          and
          > will with encouragement turn the other way but no wiggling back and
          > forth....
          >
          > Now I know there are probably several factors adding up here, not
          > enough power from the solar cell/solar engine, cap too small, motor
          > not effecient enough, chip the wrong flavor, bad soldering and
          > whatever else but athe biggest problem I have is deciding which
          type
          > to make next so heres where I need your help...
          >
          > I need suggestions on what is the easyest/most reliable head to
          > build. Should I start with a battery powered one (yeuk) or keep
          > trying to get solar ones wiggling?
          >
          > sugestions please...
          >
          > thanks
          > jenny
        • jennyrolfe
          It could well be the motors. I did get myself a little rc car to take apart for bits but the boyfriend had taken a liking to it, selloptaped a toy mouse to the
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 1, 2002
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            It could well be the motors. I did get myself a little rc car to take
            apart for bits but the boyfriend had taken a liking to it,
            selloptaped a toy mouse to the top and uses it yo exercise the cat so
            I'll have to get another one...

            I think I'm gonna try some extra caps as well and see if that helps

            ta
            jenny


            --- In beam@y..., "Richard Caudle" <richard@r...> wrote:
            > Hello Jenny,
            >
            > My best guess is that your motor is not up to the task. You really
            > should be using a gearmotor of some sort. You can goto your local
            > Goodwill and get some RC cars for about $20 and take those motors
            out
            > and with a little modification can be used quite well. You could
            > also look at the size of your storage caps. That would account for
            > the short bursts of activity. If you don't have any large caps,
            you
            > can put several small ones in parallel to increase the capaicty.
            >
            > I've had some success with using a variation of [TA]Wilf's
            ProHead.
            > You can find that one on his solarbotics.net site.
            >
            > Keep up the good work!
            >
            > F-diddy
          • jennyrolfe
            well that would make a lot of sense, the one that doesn t have a chip does pop towards the light and it makes a lovely little noise as it does it, so I like
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 1, 2002
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              well that would make a lot of sense, the one that doesn't have a chip
              does pop towards the light and it makes a lovely little noise as it
              does it, so I like that one. The others with chips do move but not a
              lot so it could well be that they are going to need batteries or
              really efficient motors .

              thanks for the links I'm off to take a look
              jenny




              --- In beam@y..., "Wrighter" <wrighterpessimist@y...> wrote:
              > Let me see if I understand the problem correctly:
              > The head will turn toward the light, and then stop? It
              doesn't "scan"
              > back and forth, looking for the light? If you want it to scan back
              > and forth, then the Solarpowered smart head is not for you. The
              > solarpowered smart head is designed to simply turn toward the
              light,
              > and stop when it finds the brightest light. That way, it doesn't
              > continually expend energy scanning back and forth. If I've
              understood
              > the problem correctly, then your bots are actually working exactly
              as
              > they are supposed to. They just aren't doing what you expected. ;-)
              > Check out the Beastiary on solarbotics.net. There are some heads in
              > there that continually scan back and forth, looking for the
              brightest
              > light. However, this uses alot of energy, so most heads of this
              sort
              > run on batteries. If you had a really efficient motor, you might be
              > able to get it solarpowered. Anyway, check out these links:
              > http://www.beam-
              online.com/Robots/Circuits/circuits.html#Phototropic
              > Bicore
              >
              >
              http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/6608/Bots/Bender/index.html
              >
              > http://home.wanadoo.nl/m.m.avos/c_lighthead2.htm
              >
              > If I've misunderstood, my apologies
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Wrighter
              >
              >
              > --- In beam@y..., "jennyrolfe" <rolfejenny@h...> wrote:
              > > I've been trying various types of head, a nice fled based one and
              > > three of four variations on the power smart head thingy but I
              want
              > > these things to be solar powered and they just don't seem to have
              > > enough power. I only have HC or HCT chips so I guess this could
              be
              > > part of the problem but none of my heads want to even try to
              > ossilate
              > > (sp?). They will work in little bursts and turn towards the light
              > and
              > > will with encouragement turn the other way but no wiggling back
              and
              > > forth....
              > >
              > > Now I know there are probably several factors adding up here, not
              > > enough power from the solar cell/solar engine, cap too small,
              motor
              > > not effecient enough, chip the wrong flavor, bad soldering and
              > > whatever else but athe biggest problem I have is deciding which
              > type
              > > to make next so heres where I need your help...
              > >
              > > I need suggestions on what is the easyest/most reliable head to
              > > build. Should I start with a battery powered one (yeuk) or keep
              > > trying to get solar ones wiggling?
              > >
              > > sugestions please...
              > >
              > > thanks
              > > jenny
            • wilf_nv
              WHich one is that Jenny?
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 1, 2002
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                WHich one is that Jenny?

                --- In beam@y..., "jennyrolfe" <rolfejenny@h...> wrote:
                > the one that doesn't have a chip
                > does pop towards the light and it makes a lovely little noise as it
                > does it, so I like that one.

                > jenny
              • Jérôme Demers
                ... Beware with that circuit, the photodiode should be like this ---| |--|
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 1, 2002
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                  > http://www.beam-online.com/Robots/Circuits/circuits.html#Phototropic
                  > Bicore

                  Beware with that circuit, the photodiode should be like this ---|>|--|<|---

                  Good luck

                  Jérôme Demers
                  "Insectroïdes" the next generation of insects
                  http://robomaniac.solarbotics.net
                • Gord Mitchell
                  Hi jenny I posted this before. Try looking at Frans Storms web site. He s the head king as far as I m conserned. http://www.telebyte.nl/~frans/beam/ Gord ...
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 1, 2002
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                    Hi jenny

                    I posted this before. Try looking at Frans Storms web site. He's the
                    head king as far as I'm conserned.
                    http://www.telebyte.nl/~frans/beam/

                    Gord


                    >
                    > Now I know there are probably several factors adding up here, not
                    > enough power from the solar cell/solar engine, cap too small, motor
                    > not effecient enough, chip the wrong flavor, bad soldering and
                    > whatever else but athe biggest problem I have is deciding which type
                    > to make next so heres where I need your help...
                    >
                    > I need suggestions on what is the easyest/most reliable head to
                    > build. Should I start with a battery powered one (yeuk) or keep
                    > trying to get solar ones wiggling?
                    >
                    > sugestions please...
                    >
                    > thanks
                    > jenny
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > beam-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >


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                  • Gord Mitchell
                    This was the first solar head I built.(see attached) It s from frans. It uses a 2200uf cap a 2221 sunsream cell and works great! In low light it moves every
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 1, 2002
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                      This was the first solar head I built.(see attached) It's from frans.
                      It uses a 2200uf cap a 2221 sunsream cell and works great! In low light
                      it moves every 3-6 seconds in full sun it quicly finds the sun the does
                      a hola dance.

                      Gord

                      > Check out the Beastiary on solarbotics.net. There are some heads in
                      > there that continually scan back and forth, looking for the brightest
                      >
                      > light. However, this uses alot of energy, so most heads of this sort
                      > run on batteries. If you had a really efficient motor, you might be
                      > able to get it solarpowered. Anyway, check out these links:
                      > http://www.beam-online.com/Robots/Circuits/circuits.html#Phototropic
                      > Bicore
                      >
                      > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/6608/Bots/Bender/index.html
                      >
                      > http://home.wanadoo.nl/m.m.avos/c_lighthead2.htm
                      >
                      > If I've misunderstood, my apologies
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > Wrighter
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In beam@y..., "jennyrolfe" <rolfejenny@h...> wrote:
                      > > I've been trying various types of head, a nice fled based one and
                      > > three of four variations on the power smart head thingy but I want
                      > > these things to be solar powered and they just don't seem to have
                      > > enough power. I only have HC or HCT chips so I guess this could be
                      > > part of the problem but none of my heads want to even try to
                      > ossilate
                      > > (sp?). They will work in little bursts and turn towards the light
                      > and
                      > > will with encouragement turn the other way but no wiggling back and
                      >
                      > > forth....
                      > >
                      > > Now I know there are probably several factors adding up here, not
                      > > enough power from the solar cell/solar engine, cap too small, motor
                      >
                      > > not effecient enough, chip the wrong flavor, bad soldering and
                      > > whatever else but athe biggest problem I have is deciding which
                      > type
                      > > to make next so heres where I need your help...
                      > >
                      > > I need suggestions on what is the easyest/most reliable head to
                      > > build. Should I start with a battery powered one (yeuk) or keep
                      > > trying to get solar ones wiggling?
                      > >
                      > > sugestions please...
                      > >
                      > > thanks
                      > > jenny
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > beam-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >



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                    • Gord Mitchell
                      What gear motors are you using? Gord ... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 1, 2002
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                        What gear motors are you using?
                        Gord

                        --- jennyrolfe <rolfejenny@...> wrote:
                        > well that would make a lot of sense, the one that doesn't have a chip
                        >
                        > does pop towards the light and it makes a lovely little noise as it
                        > does it, so I like that one. The others with chips do move but not a
                        > lot so it could well be that they are going to need batteries or
                        > really efficient motors .
                        >
                        > thanks for the links I'm off to take a look
                        > jenny
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In beam@y..., "Wrighter" <wrighterpessimist@y...> wrote:
                        > > Let me see if I understand the problem correctly:
                        > > The head will turn toward the light, and then stop? It
                        > doesn't "scan"
                        > > back and forth, looking for the light? If you want it to scan back
                        > > and forth, then the Solarpowered smart head is not for you. The
                        > > solarpowered smart head is designed to simply turn toward the
                        > light,
                        > > and stop when it finds the brightest light. That way, it doesn't
                        > > continually expend energy scanning back and forth. If I've
                        > understood
                        > > the problem correctly, then your bots are actually working exactly
                        > as
                        > > they are supposed to. They just aren't doing what you expected. ;-)
                        >
                        > > Check out the Beastiary on solarbotics.net. There are some heads in
                        >
                        > > there that continually scan back and forth, looking for the
                        > brightest
                        > > light. However, this uses alot of energy, so most heads of this
                        > sort
                        > > run on batteries. If you had a really efficient motor, you might be
                        >
                        > > able to get it solarpowered. Anyway, check out these links:
                        > > http://www.beam-
                        > online.com/Robots/Circuits/circuits.html#Phototropic
                        > > Bicore
                        > >
                        > >
                        > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/6608/Bots/Bender/index.html
                        > >
                        > > http://home.wanadoo.nl/m.m.avos/c_lighthead2.htm
                        > >
                        > > If I've misunderstood, my apologies
                        > >
                        > > Cheers,
                        > > Wrighter
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In beam@y..., "jennyrolfe" <rolfejenny@h...> wrote:
                        > > > I've been trying various types of head, a nice fled based one and
                        >
                        > > > three of four variations on the power smart head thingy but I
                        > want
                        > > > these things to be solar powered and they just don't seem to have
                        >
                        > > > enough power. I only have HC or HCT chips so I guess this could
                        > be
                        > > > part of the problem but none of my heads want to even try to
                        > > ossilate
                        > > > (sp?). They will work in little bursts and turn towards the light
                        >
                        > > and
                        > > > will with encouragement turn the other way but no wiggling back
                        > and
                        > > > forth....
                        > > >
                        > > > Now I know there are probably several factors adding up here, not
                        >
                        > > > enough power from the solar cell/solar engine, cap too small,
                        > motor
                        > > > not effecient enough, chip the wrong flavor, bad soldering and
                        > > > whatever else but athe biggest problem I have is deciding which
                        > > type
                        > > > to make next so heres where I need your help...
                        > > >
                        > > > I need suggestions on what is the easyest/most reliable head to
                        > > > build. Should I start with a battery powered one (yeuk) or keep
                        > > > trying to get solar ones wiggling?
                        > > >
                        > > > sugestions please...
                        > > >
                        > > > thanks
                        > > > jenny
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        >
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                        >
                        >
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                        >
                        >


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                      • jennyrolfe
                        one day I ll learn to express myself clearly and make sense...I had to teach someone about this huge xml based content development system I created at work the
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 2, 2002
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                          one day I'll learn to express myself clearly and make sense...I had
                          to teach someone about this huge xml based content development system
                          I created at work the other day, you should have seen my poor victims
                          face and my explainations consisted of mainly 'well you use the
                          thingy there to conect with the whatsit and add a couple of
                          doodads'...hmmm

                          anyway, heads I have built:

                          1: the bicore head bot from the junkbot book, this is one that wanted
                          batteries, I made it and it just spun in one direction, fiddled a bit
                          and it just about worked but then I decided to try and make it solar
                          and killed it

                          2: the 'experimental popper head v1.0 which I made by looking at the
                          layout at the board room (fabulous site by the way) This is the one
                          that will move towards the light making a lovely popping sound.

                          3: The complete solar power smart head rev 3. Now I think this one I
                          was expecting to move back and forth search for light but now I know
                          that it should just move towards the light and stay there. This one I
                          kept blowing out the chips, changing the light sensors and now I
                          think I've killed it which is a pity cause it actually looked quite
                          neat for once

                          4: fred head v2.2 built this one, it didn't work straight away so I
                          took it apart again

                          5,6,7 several variations of the light seeking bicore none of the
                          little buggers would work with solar power and I now have quite a
                          puile of probably dead chips (is there a way to test whether they are
                          dead or not?)

                          cor I'm quite productive really, specially as I only started making
                          robots a month or two ago!

                          So I have one working head which is the experimental popper one, my
                          cat is chewing on that one at the moment. What I want to do is build
                          a solar powered oscillating one. For this I guess I need to build a
                          light seeking bicore with big caps a very good motor and a nice big
                          solar cell (just got some flexible ones which say they are 4.5v @
                          25Ma so I'll give them a go)

                          jenny


                          --- In beam@y..., "wilf_nv" <wrigter@d...> wrote:
                          > WHich one is that Jenny?
                          >
                          > --- In beam@y..., "jennyrolfe" <rolfejenny@h...> wrote:
                          > > the one that doesn't have a chip
                          > > does pop towards the light and it makes a lovely little noise as
                          it
                          > > does it, so I like that one.
                          >
                          > > jenny
                        • jennyrolfe
                          cool, I ll give it a go jenny ... frans. ... light ... does ... in ... brightest ... sort ... be ... online.com/Robots/Circuits/circuits.html#Phototropic ...
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 2, 2002
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                            cool, I'll give it a go
                            jenny


                            --- In beam@y..., Gord Mitchell <gord_1812@y...> wrote:
                            > This was the first solar head I built.(see attached) It's from
                            frans.
                            > It uses a 2200uf cap a 2221 sunsream cell and works great! In low
                            light
                            > it moves every 3-6 seconds in full sun it quicly finds the sun the
                            does
                            > a hola dance.
                            >
                            > Gord
                            >
                            > > Check out the Beastiary on solarbotics.net. There are some heads
                            in
                            > > there that continually scan back and forth, looking for the
                            brightest
                            > >
                            > > light. However, this uses alot of energy, so most heads of this
                            sort
                            > > run on batteries. If you had a really efficient motor, you might
                            be
                            > > able to get it solarpowered. Anyway, check out these links:
                            > > http://www.beam-
                            online.com/Robots/Circuits/circuits.html#Phototropic
                            > > Bicore
                            > >
                            > >
                            http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/6608/Bots/Bender/index.html
                            > >
                            > > http://home.wanadoo.nl/m.m.avos/c_lighthead2.htm
                            > >
                            > > If I've misunderstood, my apologies
                            > >
                            > > Cheers,
                            > > Wrighter
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In beam@y..., "jennyrolfe" <rolfejenny@h...> wrote:
                            > > > I've been trying various types of head, a nice fled based one
                            and
                            > > > three of four variations on the power smart head thingy but I
                            want
                            > > > these things to be solar powered and they just don't seem to
                            have
                            > > > enough power. I only have HC or HCT chips so I guess this could
                            be
                            > > > part of the problem but none of my heads want to even try to
                            > > ossilate
                            > > > (sp?). They will work in little bursts and turn towards the
                            light
                            > > and
                            > > > will with encouragement turn the other way but no wiggling back
                            and
                            > >
                            > > > forth....
                            > > >
                            > > > Now I know there are probably several factors adding up here,
                            not
                            > > > enough power from the solar cell/solar engine, cap too small,
                            motor
                            > >
                            > > > not effecient enough, chip the wrong flavor, bad soldering and
                            > > > whatever else but athe biggest problem I have is deciding which
                            > > type
                            > > > to make next so heres where I need your help...
                            > > >
                            > > > I need suggestions on what is the easyest/most reliable head to
                            > > > build. Should I start with a battery powered one (yeuk) or keep
                            > > > trying to get solar ones wiggling?
                            > > >
                            > > > sugestions please...
                            > > >
                            > > > thanks
                            > > > jenny
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > >
                            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > beam-unsubscribe@e...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > __________________________________________________
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                            > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
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                          • Gord Mitchell
                            ... You ll love it.ine sits on the dash of the van and always shows me where the sun is. :) Gord ... __________________________________________________ Do you
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 2, 2002
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                              --- jennyrolfe <rolfejenny@...> wrote:
                              > cool, I'll give it a go
                              > jenny


                              You'll love it.ine sits on the dash of the van and always shows me
                              where the sun is. :)
                              Gord

                              >
                              > --- In beam@y..., Gord Mitchell <gord_1812@y...> wrote:
                              > > This was the first solar head I built.(see attached) It's from
                              > frans.
                              > > It uses a 2200uf cap a 2221 sunsream cell and works great! In low
                              > light
                              > > it moves every 3-6 seconds in full sun it quicly finds the sun the
                              > does
                              > > a hola dance.
                              > >
                              > > Gord
                              > >
                              > > > Check out the Beastiary on solarbotics.net. There are some heads
                              > in
                              > > > there that continually scan back and forth, looking for the
                              > brightest
                              > > >
                              > > > light. However, this uses alot of energy, so most heads of this
                              > sort
                              > > > run on batteries. If you had a really efficient motor, you might
                              > be
                              > > > able to get it solarpowered. Anyway, check out these links:
                              > > > http://www.beam-
                              > online.com/Robots/Circuits/circuits.html#Phototropic
                              > > > Bicore
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/6608/Bots/Bender/index.html
                              > > >
                              > > > http://home.wanadoo.nl/m.m.avos/c_lighthead2.htm
                              > > >
                              > > > If I've misunderstood, my apologies
                              > > >
                              > > > Cheers,
                              > > > Wrighter
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In beam@y..., "jennyrolfe" <rolfejenny@h...> wrote:
                              > > > > I've been trying various types of head, a nice fled based one
                              > and
                              > > > > three of four variations on the power smart head thingy but I
                              > want
                              > > > > these things to be solar powered and they just don't seem to
                              > have
                              > > > > enough power. I only have HC or HCT chips so I guess this could
                              >
                              > be
                              > > > > part of the problem but none of my heads want to even try to
                              > > > ossilate
                              > > > > (sp?). They will work in little bursts and turn towards the
                              > light
                              > > > and
                              > > > > will with encouragement turn the other way but no wiggling back
                              >
                              > and
                              > > >
                              > > > > forth....
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Now I know there are probably several factors adding up here,
                              > not
                              > > > > enough power from the solar cell/solar engine, cap too small,
                              > motor
                              > > >
                              > > > > not effecient enough, chip the wrong flavor, bad soldering and
                              > > > > whatever else but athe biggest problem I have is deciding which
                              >
                              > > > type
                              > > > > to make next so heres where I need your help...
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I need suggestions on what is the easyest/most reliable head to
                              >
                              > > > > build. Should I start with a battery powered one (yeuk) or keep
                              >
                              > > > > trying to get solar ones wiggling?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > sugestions please...
                              > > > >
                              > > > > thanks
                              > > > > jenny
                              > > >
                              > > >
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                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
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