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Re: Monoslugs blown away by H16's

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  • Andy Pipkin
    The cats were two H16 s, one multicolored with sail # 59XXX and the other had solid white sails. That looks like what they did - stayed outside the course
    Message 1 of 28 , Oct 1, 2001
      The cats were two H16's, one multicolored with sail # 59XXX and the
      other had solid white sails. That looks like what they did - stayed
      outside the course while beating every boat out there without even
      having to be trapped out. I mean SMOKED them. I have never had my
      cat anywhere near any monohulls, so I didn't realize how much slower
      they actually are! The two 16's landed at a little grassy, fenced-in
      area next to the public launch on the west side not far from the
      spillway. I didn't go talk to them b/c I had to be somewhere and was
      already a little late. It would've been a great day to be out on
      Ross Barnett. Plenty of wind!

      Andy



      --- In beachcats@y..., aupepper@e... wrote:
      > Andy,
      > Wish I was in town this weekend at Ross...but Kermit and I had a
      good
      > day on Grenada Lake Sat. We went over with him on the wire. He's
      got
      > quite a few bruises to show for it. It was really choppy, and we
      were
      > jumping waves like we were on the coast.
      >
      > The Hobie guys love to screw with the J's at Ross on Sunday. They
      > have races every Sunday afternoon, and the fun thing to do is get on
      > the Hobies and fly around just outside the course. It drives them
      > nuts. The monos hate the cats, and the cats hate the monos around
      > there. I've been on the fence in that debate. I used to crew
      > foredeck for a couple of guys on the J's. It was a lot of fun, but
      I
      > always wanted to go join the cat guys. Now that I've jumped teams,
      > I've noticed that the two groups are totally different. The monos
      are
      > all snobby, and the cats are all a little "off." I think I fit well
      > with the cats.
      >
      > Did you go talk to any of the cat guys? They're really cool and
      love
      > people to come down to the 'beach' and visit. I'll bet one of the
      > guys out there was Ernie. He loves getting after those J's!
      >
      > Josh
      > 1981 H16 "Sunstroke"
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In beachcats@y..., "Andy Pipkin" <bamachem@y...> wrote:
      > > I am at my in-laws this weekend. For a little me-time, I went
      out to
      > > Ross Barnett Resivior (SP?) to check out a J22 race today. Ther
      were
      > > a couple of H16's out there that were jsut blowing the monoslugs
      > > away! No comparison in speed. There was probally 8-10 knot wind
      and
      > > the mono's were barely moving. The H16's were doing close to
      20MPH.
      > > They were hauling some serious butt and just "playing" with the
      guys
      > > in the race. Almost to the point of doing circles around them.
      It
      > > was awsome. Makes me wish I would've brought my 17... oh yeah, I
      > > don't have a sail. :(
      > >
      > > Andy
      > > H17-SE sail-less, but for sale
    • aupepper@excite.com
      Yeah, those J s usually cruise out there at 5-7, while the H16 s will regularly do 15. It s not even a close comparison. They can point upwind and run
      Message 2 of 28 , Oct 1, 2001
        Yeah, those J's usually cruise out there at 5-7, while the H16's will
        regularly do 15. It's not even a close comparison. They can point
        upwind and run downwind more directly, but they aren't even close to
        the speed of a cat.
        The grassy area is the place I refer to as the "beach." It's the
        home of the Reservoir Sailing Association...great bunch of guys. And
        if you head directly out to the spillway you catch some great wind
        coming off the apartments to the south. If you want a good place to
        eat, Cock of the Walk is right there across the parking lot.

        Josh
        1981 H16 "Sunstroke"

        --- In beachcats@y..., "Andy Pipkin" <bamachem@y...> wrote:
        >
        > The cats were two H16's, one multicolored with sail # 59XXX and the
        > other had solid white sails. That looks like what they did -
        stayed
        > outside the course while beating every boat out there without even
        > having to be trapped out. I mean SMOKED them. I have never had my
        > cat anywhere near any monohulls, so I didn't realize how much
        slower
        > they actually are! The two 16's landed at a little grassy, fenced-
        in
        > area next to the public launch on the west side not far from the
        > spillway. I didn't go talk to them b/c I had to be somewhere and
        was
        > already a little late. It would've been a great day to be out on
        > Ross Barnett. Plenty of wind!
        >
        > Andy
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In beachcats@y..., aupepper@e... wrote:
        > > Andy,
        > > Wish I was in town this weekend at Ross...but Kermit and I had a
        > good
        > > day on Grenada Lake Sat. We went over with him on the wire.
        He's
        > got
        > > quite a few bruises to show for it. It was really choppy, and we
        > were
        > > jumping waves like we were on the coast.
        > >
        > > The Hobie guys love to screw with the J's at Ross on Sunday. They
        > > have races every Sunday afternoon, and the fun thing to do is get
        on
        > > the Hobies and fly around just outside the course. It drives them
        > > nuts. The monos hate the cats, and the cats hate the monos around
        > > there. I've been on the fence in that debate. I used to crew
        > > foredeck for a couple of guys on the J's. It was a lot of fun,
        but
        > I
        > > always wanted to go join the cat guys. Now that I've jumped
        teams,
        > > I've noticed that the two groups are totally different. The
        monos
        > are
        > > all snobby, and the cats are all a little "off." I think I fit
        well
        > > with the cats.
        > >
        > > Did you go talk to any of the cat guys? They're really cool and
        > love
        > > people to come down to the 'beach' and visit. I'll bet one of the
        > > guys out there was Ernie. He loves getting after those J's!
        > >
        > > Josh
        > > 1981 H16 "Sunstroke"
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In beachcats@y..., "Andy Pipkin" <bamachem@y...> wrote:
        > > > I am at my in-laws this weekend. For a little me-time, I went
        > out to
        > > > Ross Barnett Resivior (SP?) to check out a J22 race today.
        Ther
        > were
        > > > a couple of H16's out there that were jsut blowing the
        monoslugs
        > > > away! No comparison in speed. There was probally 8-10 knot
        wind
        > and
        > > > the mono's were barely moving. The H16's were doing close to
        > 20MPH.
        > > > They were hauling some serious butt and just "playing" with the
        > guys
        > > > in the race. Almost to the point of doing circles around
        them.
        > It
        > > > was awsome. Makes me wish I would've brought my 17... oh yeah,
        I
        > > > don't have a sail. :(
        > > >
        > > > Andy
        > > > H17-SE sail-less, but for sale
      • tamishel@yahoo.com
        ... II ll bet one of the ... Josh, Tell Ernie that Tami from Ocean Springs sends him a big hug an a kiss... sea ya tami
        Message 3 of 28 , Oct 1, 2001
          --- In beachcats@y..., aupepper@e... wrote:
          II'll bet one of the
          > guys out there was Ernie. He loves getting after those J's!
          >

          Josh,
          Tell Ernie that Tami from Ocean Springs sends him a big hug an' a
          kiss...

          sea ya
          tami
        • Ken Wittlief
          unless a monohull can get up on a plane it cant ride over its bow wave -and the speed of the bow wave is a function of the length of the boat a 16 monohull
          Message 4 of 28 , Oct 1, 2001
            unless a monohull can get up on a plane it cant ride over its bow
            wave -and the speed of the bow wave is a function of the length of
            the boat

            a 16' monohull has a bow wave speed of about 8 or 9 kts.

            but even if a monohull can plane - it still cant hold as much sail
            up in the air as a cat can - becase we are levered out so much
            further from the centerline of the boat - esp when we are trapped out.

            then add in the smaller amount of hull that we have dragging through
            the water, cats are way faster than monohulls except under very
            specific conditions (ie DDW in light wind)

            not just a little faster, WAY faster.

            -Ken Wittlief H16
          • Michael
            Hi... ... Be careful. There are some monoslugs that will leave a H16 for dead. Go see an International 14 (14 skiff) in action. A good H16 sailer will be
            Message 5 of 28 , Oct 2, 2001
              Hi...

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Andy Pipkin [mailto:bamachem@...]
              > Sent: Monday, 1 October 2001 10:09 PM
              >
              > The cats were two H16's, one multicolored with sail # 59XXX and the
              > other had solid white sails. That looks like what they did - stayed
              > outside the course while beating every boat out there without even
              > having to be trapped out. I mean SMOKED them. I have never had my
              > cat anywhere near any monohulls, so I didn't realize how much slower
              > they actually are! The two 16's landed at a little grassy, fenced-in

              Be careful. There are some monoslugs that will leave a H16 for dead.
              Go see an International 14 (14' skiff) in action. A good H16 sailer
              will be able to beat one to the top mark ok, but off the breeze they
              will leave you for dead. The one thing a H16 has over the i4's is the
              14 is very difficult to sail. One slight mistake and swimming lessons!.

              Michael
            • Michael
              Hi... ... True, but there are many mono classes that can plane. ... 350+ sq ft of spinnaker on a 14 mono isn t enough for you? Then there is the 16 and 18
              Message 6 of 28 , Oct 2, 2001
                Hi...

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Ken Wittlief [mailto:wittlief@...]
                > Sent: Monday, 1 October 2001 10:44 PM
                >
                > unless a monohull can get up on a plane it cant ride over its bow
                > wave -and the speed of the bow wave is a function of the length of
                > the boat
                >
                > a 16' monohull has a bow wave speed of about 8 or 9 kts.

                True, but there are many mono classes that can plane.

                > but even if a monohull can plane - it still cant hold as much sail
                > up in the air as a cat can - becase we are levered out so much
                > further from the centerline of the boat - esp when we are trapped out.

                350+ sq ft of spinnaker on a 14' mono isn't enough for you? Then there
                is the 16 and 18 footers to consider :)

                > then add in the smaller amount of hull that we have dragging through
                > the water, cats are way faster than monohulls except under very
                > specific conditions (ie DDW in light wind)

                Yes and no. As I posted elsewhere, there are several mono classes
                around that will kill many cats off the breeze. Of course they are
                serious racing machines that are not suited for a leisurely day sailing
                with the kids.

                Michael
              • Andy Pipkin
                Josh: Yeah, that s the name of the place. I couldn t remember it. There were a lot of 16 s there. All 16 s, I think. Probally 25 or so. Do they sponser any
                Message 7 of 28 , Oct 2, 2001
                  Josh:

                  Yeah, that's the name of the place. I couldn't remember it. There
                  were a lot of 16's there. All 16's, I think. Probally 25 or so. Do
                  they sponser any races? There's definitely enough already there to
                  spur a little competition.

                  Andy
                • Nicolaas Hoek
                  Those 18 feet skiffs are absolutely wicked, there are some good video s of them too in Bills page I think(if they are not there, they are on the page where he
                  Message 8 of 28 , Oct 2, 2001
                    Those 18 feet skiffs are absolutely wicked, there are some good
                    video's of them too in Bills page I think(if they are not there, they
                    are on the page where he ripped them from =):
                    http://sailingsource.com/videos/default.html

                    Nick


                    --- In beachcats@y..., "Michael" <G.Reaper@b...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi...
                    >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: Ken Wittlief [mailto:wittlief@a...]
                    > > Sent: Monday, 1 October 2001 10:44 PM
                    > >
                    > > unless a monohull can get up on a plane it cant ride over its bow
                    > > wave -and the speed of the bow wave is a function of the length of
                    > > the boat
                    > >
                    > > a 16' monohull has a bow wave speed of about 8 or 9 kts.
                    >
                    > True, but there are many mono classes that can plane.
                    >
                    > > but even if a monohull can plane - it still cant hold as much
                    sail
                    > > up in the air as a cat can - becase we are levered out so much
                    > > further from the centerline of the boat - esp when we are trapped
                    out.
                    >
                    > 350+ sq ft of spinnaker on a 14' mono isn't enough for you? Then
                    there
                    > is the 16 and 18 footers to consider :)
                    >
                    > > then add in the smaller amount of hull that we have dragging
                    through
                    > > the water, cats are way faster than monohulls except under very
                    > > specific conditions (ie DDW in light wind)
                    >
                    > Yes and no. As I posted elsewhere, there are several mono classes
                    > around that will kill many cats off the breeze. Of course they are
                    > serious racing machines that are not suited for a leisurely day
                    sailing
                    > with the kids.
                    >
                    > Michael
                  • aupepper@excite.com
                    Well, they re not all H16 s. There are a couple of H18 s, a few P16 and 18 s, and I think a Nacra 5.8. Most are 16 s...or parts of 16 s. Interest at RSA
                    Message 9 of 28 , Oct 2, 2001
                      Well, they're not all H16's. There are a couple of H18's, a few P16
                      and 18's, and I think a Nacra 5.8. Most are 16's...or parts of
                      16's. Interest at RSA (Fleet 278) picked up this year. They had
                      less than ten active out of somewhere close to 30 paying, but I think
                      that number is up by a few this year. I'm still not a member because
                      I've been moving around so much and am rarely in Jackson. I think
                      I'll pay my dues come winter and park the ole Money Pit down there.
                      As far as races, I'm not sure. They claim they've done a few fleet
                      races, but I've never heard anything about them. We could probably
                      work up a pretty decent race if someone would take the initiative.
                      The problem is that the lake is usually so populated with motorheads
                      that it's hard to maintain fair conditions. The Jackson Yacht Club
                      has that problem with their J-22 races.

                      I'd love to try and get people interested. In fact, if anyone on the
                      list is interested in coming to a race at Ross Barnett in Jackson,
                      MS, let me know and maybe we can get Ron Beliech and Jerome Vaughn
                      contacted and get something organized for next year.

                      Josh
                      1981 H16 "Sunstroke"


                      --- In beachcats@y..., "Andy Pipkin" <bamachem@y...> wrote:
                      > Josh:
                      >
                      > Yeah, that's the name of the place. I couldn't remember it. There
                      > were a lot of 16's there. All 16's, I think. Probally 25 or so.
                      Do
                      > they sponser any races? There's definitely enough already there to
                      > spur a little competition.
                      >
                      > Andy
                    • Andy Pipkin
                      I looked pretty closely, but didn t see any H18 s P16 s or P18 s. I do remember seeing the Nacra. I didn t walk around though. I jsut pulled up and took a
                      Message 10 of 28 , Oct 2, 2001
                        I looked pretty closely, but didn't see any H18's P16's or P18's. I
                        do remember seeing the Nacra. I didn't walk around though. I jsut
                        pulled up and took a look. I sould definitely be interested in
                        either sailing or crewing in Jackson. Let me know! Maybe some of
                        the guys from GA will drive over. Never know...

                        Andy
                      • aupepper@excite.com
                        Now that I think about it, there is even one H14 Turbo that I remember out there. The only P16 in recent memory that has actually been in the water is
                        Message 11 of 28 , Oct 2, 2001
                          Now that I think about it, there is even one H14 Turbo that I
                          remember out there. The only P16 in recent memory that has actually
                          been in the water is probably cracked up pretty bad now, thanks to my
                          crew, Kermit (see Pile em' on thread). When we had to right the
                          boat for the "novices" in the story, the hull cracked a little under
                          the weight of the three people standing on it. Kermit reminded me
                          this weekend that the guy was a retired Seal, so I imagine if he was
                          mad about it, Kermit wouldn't be around today!

                          Again, if anyone is interested in racing in Jackson, let me know and
                          I'll start the word around.

                          Josh
                          1981 H16 "Sunstroke"

                          --- In beachcats@y..., "Andy Pipkin" <bamachem@y...> wrote:
                          > I looked pretty closely, but didn't see any H18's P16's or P18's.
                          I
                          > do remember seeing the Nacra. I didn't walk around though. I jsut
                          > pulled up and took a look. I sould definitely be interested in
                          > either sailing or crewing in Jackson. Let me know! Maybe some of
                          > the guys from GA will drive over. Never know...
                          >
                          > Andy
                        • Ken Wittlief
                          I not sure what you mean by all this - sure there are monohull configurations that are faster than stock hobiecats but if you take the length of the hulls a
                          Message 12 of 28 , Oct 2, 2001
                            I not sure what you mean by all this - sure there are monohull
                            configurations that are faster than stock hobiecats

                            but if you take the length of the hulls a cat will always blow a
                            monohull away in everything except DDW in a 3 knot wind.

                            and for spinakers and hooters, I can put them on my H16 too

                            unless the monohullers are willing to put an aluminum step ladder on
                            their decks to hike out on they simply cant balance as much sail in
                            the air as a cat will.

                            look at the polars for boats sure there are large planning monos
                            that sail with 7 crewmen that can out run a hobie 14

                            but if you take a mono and a cat with approx the same hull size, teh
                            same number and type of sails, and the same number of souls on board -
                            no contest.

                            -Ken W.

                            --- In beachcats@y..., "Michael" <G.Reaper@b...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi...
                            >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: Ken Wittlief [mailto:wittlief@a...]
                            > > Sent: Monday, 1 October 2001 10:44 PM
                            > >
                            > > unless a monohull can get up on a plane it cant ride over its bow
                            > > wave -and the speed of the bow wave is a function of the length of
                            > > the boat
                            > >
                            > > a 16' monohull has a bow wave speed of about 8 or 9 kts.
                            >
                            > True, but there are many mono classes that can plane.
                            >
                            > > but even if a monohull can plane - it still cant hold as much
                            sail
                            > > up in the air as a cat can - becase we are levered out so much
                            > > further from the centerline of the boat - esp when we are trapped
                            out.
                            >
                            > 350+ sq ft of spinnaker on a 14' mono isn't enough for you? Then
                            there
                            > is the 16 and 18 footers to consider :)
                            >
                            > > then add in the smaller amount of hull that we have dragging
                            through
                            > > the water, cats are way faster than monohulls except under very
                            > > specific conditions (ie DDW in light wind)
                            >
                            > Yes and no. As I posted elsewhere, there are several mono classes
                            > around that will kill many cats off the breeze. Of course they are
                            > serious racing machines that are not suited for a leisurely day
                            sailing
                            > with the kids.
                            >
                            > Michael
                          • Michael
                            Hi... ... And I am pointing out that this is plain wrong. ... My point being, that stock boat vs stock boat, there are a few classes around that are
                            Message 13 of 28 , Oct 2, 2001
                              Hi...

                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Ken Wittlief [mailto:wittlief@...]
                              > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2001 5:56 AM
                              >
                              > I not sure what you mean by all this - sure there are monohull
                              > configurations that are faster than stock hobiecats
                              >
                              > but if you take the length of the hulls a cat will always blow a
                              > monohull away in everything except DDW in a 3 knot wind.

                              And I am pointing out that this is plain wrong.

                              > and for spinakers and hooters, I can put them on my H16 too

                              My point being, that stock boat vs stock boat, there are a few classes
                              around that are significantly faster than many cats straight out of the
                              box.

                              > unless the monohullers are willing to put an aluminum step ladder on
                              > their decks to hike out on they simply cant balance as much sail in
                              > the air as a cat will.

                              Up until 2 years back (approx), i14's didn't have any racks or wings
                              what so ever. When they did change the class rules to allow racks,
                              there was no change to the max sail area (main and jib) so the effect of
                              the racks was to allow the boat to carry full sail power for longer.

                              > look at the polars for boats sure there are large planning monos
                              > that sail with 7 crewmen that can out run a hobie 14

                              Most of the skiff classes only have skipper and 1 crew (the same as most
                              cats). 16' and 18' skiffs allow for 3 on board.

                              > but if you take a mono and a cat with approx the same hull size, teh
                              > same number and type of sails, and the same number of souls on board -
                              > no contest.

                              Stock Hobie 16 and a stock i14. I'll give you 2' of waterline length,
                              each with 2 on board and your right, it's no contest. In most around
                              the bouys racing, an experienced i14 duo will beat an experienced H16.

                              I only make these comments as for some reason a number of people think
                              that to have good boat speed, you need a cat. (this does not necessarily
                              include you though).

                              Michael
                            • camedus@hotmail.com
                              Hello Michael, If a i14 duo can smoke an H16 duo as you say, why do portsmouth numbers consider an i14 a slower boat than an H16? Under light air conditions
                              Message 14 of 28 , Oct 3, 2001
                                Hello Michael,

                                If a i14 duo can smoke an H16 duo as you say, why do portsmouth
                                numbers consider an i14 a slower boat than an H16? Under light air
                                conditions the HC number is quite close (86.9 vs 82.4) but as the
                                wind picks up the HC number for i14 goes down only slightly (84.1)
                                and the H16 number goes down more than 10 points (71.6). I don't know
                                any catsailor who would leave the beach to sail in less than 3 knots
                                of wind so I find it hard to picture your scenario.

                                Miguel
                                H16 Puerto La Cruz
                                Venezuela

                                --- In beachcats@y..., "Michael" <G.Reaper@b...> wrote:
                                > Stock Hobie 16 and a stock i14. I'll give you 2' of waterline
                                length,
                                > each with 2 on board and your right, it's no contest. In most
                                around
                                > the bouys racing, an experienced i14 duo will beat an experienced
                                H16.
                                >
                                > I only make these comments as for some reason a number of people
                                think
                                > that to have good boat speed, you need a cat. (this does not
                                necessarily
                                > include you though).
                                >
                                > Michael
                              • Ken Wittlief
                                also the H16 is a 25 year old design - I have it on good authority there are cats in the same size range that are faster than an H16. -Ken W. ... know ...
                                Message 15 of 28 , Oct 3, 2001
                                  also the H16 is a 25 year old design - I have it on good authority
                                  there are cats in the same size range that are faster than an H16.

                                  -Ken W.

                                  --- In beachcats@y..., camedus@h... wrote:
                                  > Hello Michael,
                                  >
                                  > If a i14 duo can smoke an H16 duo as you say, why do portsmouth
                                  > numbers consider an i14 a slower boat than an H16? Under light air
                                  > conditions the HC number is quite close (86.9 vs 82.4) but as the
                                  > wind picks up the HC number for i14 goes down only slightly (84.1)
                                  > and the H16 number goes down more than 10 points (71.6). I don't
                                  know
                                  > any catsailor who would leave the beach to sail in less than 3
                                  knots
                                  > of wind so I find it hard to picture your scenario.
                                  >
                                  > Miguel
                                  > H16 Puerto La Cruz
                                  > Venezuela
                                  >
                                  > --- In beachcats@y..., "Michael" <G.Reaper@b...> wrote:
                                  > > Stock Hobie 16 and a stock i14. I'll give you 2' of waterline
                                  > length,
                                  > > each with 2 on board and your right, it's no contest. In most
                                  > around
                                  > > the bouys racing, an experienced i14 duo will beat an experienced
                                  > H16.
                                  > >
                                  > > I only make these comments as for some reason a number of people
                                  > think
                                  > > that to have good boat speed, you need a cat. (this does not
                                  > necessarily
                                  > > include you though).
                                  > >
                                  > > Michael
                                • Michael
                                  Hi... ... I don t know how the Portsmouth system works so I can t offer an explanation for it. The one thing I will agree with is that when the winds are
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Oct 3, 2001
                                    Hi...

                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: camedus@... [mailto:camedus@...]
                                    > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2001 11:24 PM
                                    >
                                    > Hello Michael,
                                    >
                                    > If a i14 duo can smoke an H16 duo as you say, why do portsmouth
                                    > numbers consider an i14 a slower boat than an H16? Under light air
                                    > conditions the HC number is quite close (86.9 vs 82.4) but as the
                                    > wind picks up the HC number for i14 goes down only slightly (84.1)
                                    > and the H16 number goes down more than 10 points (71.6). I don't know
                                    > any catsailor who would leave the beach to sail in less than 3 knots
                                    > of wind so I find it hard to picture your scenario.

                                    I don't know how the Portsmouth system works so I can't offer an
                                    explanation for it. The one thing I will agree with is that when the
                                    winds are high, (20+ kts) a H16 will be in heaven whilst the skiffs pack
                                    things in and go to the bar. Have you ever seen one of these things in
                                    action?? They are worth taking a short trip to watch a good
                                    skipper/crew in action. They race at my club from time to time and on
                                    occasion, even the H18's have a hard time staying in front of the better
                                    14's.

                                    The point I am trying to make is not to close peoples minds to the idea
                                    of other boats being fast. Sailing in general is in decline (well in
                                    Australia it is anyway) and the last thing we should be doing as a group
                                    is slagging off the other boats of people who enjoy them.

                                    Michael
                                  • Michael
                                    Hi.. ... Of course there are. You picked the H16 as the example. I14 s date back over 100 years though it is not a one design class. Michael
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Oct 3, 2001
                                      Hi..

                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: Ken Wittlief [mailto:wittlief@...]
                                      > Sent: Thursday, 4 October 2001 12:37 AM
                                      >
                                      > also the H16 is a 25 year old design - I have it on good authority
                                      > there are cats in the same size range that are faster than an H16.

                                      Of course there are. You picked the H16 as the example. I14's date
                                      back over 100 years though it is not a one design class.

                                      Michael
                                    • Ken Wittlief
                                      I dont think anyone would seriously thumb their nose or ridicule anyone with anykind of sailboat (as long as its not inflatable). We are all sailors, cats,
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Oct 3, 2001
                                        I dont think anyone would seriously thumb their nose or ridicule
                                        anyone with anykind of sailboat (as long as its not inflatable).

                                        We are all sailors, cats, trihull, trifoilers, windsurfers,
                                        leadmines...

                                        a healthy bantering and tongue in cheek monoslug bashing is ok as
                                        long as its all in good humor.

                                        BTW, I saw a skiff of some kind out on the big lake today, I dont
                                        know what it was, but the stearn of it was open.

                                        and its mast was broken about 2 feet up.

                                        winds were 25 to 30 kts, gusting between 30 and ocasionally 40 kts.

                                        the HydroManiac behaved its self well san jib, and came home in one
                                        piece

                                        -Ken WIttlief H16 'HydroManiac'
                                        Rochester, NY
                                      • camedus@hotmail.com
                                        Point taken Michael, The Portsmouth numbers is a handicapping system invented to allow multiple class boat regattas. It is meant to be used with day boats
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Oct 4, 2001
                                          Point taken Michael,

                                          The Portsmouth numbers is a handicapping system invented to allow
                                          multiple class boat regattas. It is meant to be used with "day boats"
                                          not cruisers. It is really fun to be in a Portsmouth race because you
                                          get to race against all kinds of boats under a fair handicapping
                                          system. This usually allows for a larger fleet where it would be hard
                                          to have a one design regatta with enough boats. The numbers come from
                                          years of statistics. Here's the URL
                                          http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/

                                          Miguel
                                          H16 Puerto La Cruz
                                          Venezuela

                                          --- In beachcats@y..., "Michael" <G.Reaper@b...> wrote:

                                          > The point I am trying to make is not to close peoples minds to the
                                          idea
                                          > of other boats being fast. Sailing in general is in decline (well
                                          in
                                          > Australia it is anyway) and the last thing we should be doing as a
                                          group
                                          > is slagging off the other boats of people who enjoy them.
                                          >
                                          > Michael
                                        • Taylor Reed
                                          Ken, I totally agree. We re all sailors, and that s what matters. Well, that and the fact that we re the sailors having more fun ;) Taylor
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Oct 4, 2001
                                            Ken, I totally agree. We're all sailors, and that's what matters. Well,
                                            that and the fact that we're the sailors having more fun ;)
                                            Taylor

                                            > I dont think anyone would seriously thumb their nose or ridicule
                                            > anyone with anykind of sailboat (as long as its not inflatable).
                                            >
                                            > We are all sailors, cats, trihull, trifoilers, windsurfers,
                                            > leadmines...
                                            >
                                            > a healthy bantering and tongue in cheek monoslug bashing is ok as
                                            > long as its all in good humor.
                                            >
                                            > BTW, I saw a skiff of some kind out on the big lake today, I dont
                                            > know what it was, but the stearn of it was open.
                                            >
                                            > and its mast was broken about 2 feet up.
                                            >
                                            > winds were 25 to 30 kts, gusting between 30 and ocasionally 40 kts.
                                            >
                                            > the HydroManiac behaved its self well san jib, and came home in one
                                            > piece
                                            >
                                            > -Ken WIttlief H16 'HydroManiac'
                                            > Rochester, NY
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Group Home: http://www.TheBeachcats.com
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                                            >
                                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • jv1234_99@yahoo.com
                                            Josh: Send me your e-mail address, so I can keep you informed of happenings around Jackson. We held a club party on Sept. 22. Were gonna race...had the
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Oct 5, 2001
                                              Josh:

                                              Send me your e-mail address, so I can keep you informed of happenings
                                              around Jackson. We held a club party on Sept. 22. Were gonna
                                              race...had the course set up and everything...but there was no wind.
                                              Drank a ****load of beer, ate some great food, and listened to Chuck
                                              S. and Shawn play guitars until the wee hours. Sorry, but I didn't
                                              know how to get in touch with you guys. Most of us RSA folks who
                                              race are going to Shearwater in Ocean Springs this weekend (leaving
                                              this afternoon). Any chance you can make it? I know it's late
                                              notice.

                                              Jerome Vaughan
                                              H16 #89445
                                              RATTLE N' HUM
                                              Clinton, Mississippi
                                            • jv1234_99@yahoo.com
                                              Sorry, Josh...I m new to this newsgroup stuff.....my address is: jv1234_99@yahoo.com
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Oct 5, 2001
                                                Sorry, Josh...I'm new to this newsgroup stuff.....my address is:

                                                jv1234_99@...

                                                >
                                                > Jerome Vaughan
                                                > H16 #89445
                                                > RATTLE N' HUM
                                                > Clinton, Mississippi
                                              • jv1234_99@yahoo.com
                                                Oh, sh**! See there...I told ya!!!!! jv1234_99 yahoo.com
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Oct 5, 2001
                                                  Oh, sh**! See there...I told ya!!!!!

                                                  jv1234_99 <at> yahoo.com

                                                  --- In beachcats@y..., jv1234_99@y... wrote:
                                                  > Sorry, Josh...I'm new to this newsgroup stuff.....my address is:
                                                  >
                                                  > jv1234_99@y...
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Jerome Vaughan
                                                  > > H16 #89445
                                                  > > RATTLE N' HUM
                                                  > > Clinton, Mississippi
                                                • jv1234_99@yahoo.com
                                                  Andy: The H16 w/ white sails you saw had to be me. Be sure to let me know when you re gonna be in Jackson again(jv1234_99 yahoo.com). Maybe we can get on
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Oct 5, 2001
                                                    Andy:

                                                    The H16 w/ white sails you saw had to be me. Be sure to let me know
                                                    when you're gonna be in Jackson again(jv1234_99 <at> yahoo.com).
                                                    Maybe we can get on the water. Also, see Message # 21537 to Josh
                                                    about the Shearwater Regatta....any way you can make it?

                                                    BTW...Does/did your boat stay at the Sapphire Beach complex? We had
                                                    two H16s there for a week around the first of August...nice place!

                                                    Jerome Vaughan
                                                    H16 #89445
                                                    RATTLE N' HUM
                                                    Clinton, Mississippi

                                                    --- In beachcats@y..., "Andy Pipkin" <bamachem@y...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > The cats were two H16's, one multicolored with sail # 59XXX and the
                                                    > other had solid white sails. That looks like what they did -
                                                    stayed
                                                    > outside the course while beating every boat out there without even
                                                    > having to be trapped out. I mean SMOKED them. I have never had my
                                                    > cat anywhere near any monohulls, so I didn't realize how much
                                                    slower
                                                    > they actually are! The two 16's landed at a little grassy, fenced-
                                                    in
                                                    > area next to the public launch on the west side not far from the
                                                    > spillway. I didn't go talk to them b/c I had to be somewhere and
                                                    was
                                                    > already a little late. It would've been a great day to be out on
                                                    > Ross Barnett. Plenty of wind!
                                                    >
                                                    > Andy
                                                  • Andy Pipkin
                                                    ... know ... had ... Nice 16. Looks like it was in good condition. Too bad you couldn t catch the guy in front of you the whole way across Ross Barnett! :) I
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Oct 6, 2001
                                                      Jerome:

                                                      > The H16 w/ white sails you saw had to be me. Be sure to let me
                                                      know
                                                      > when you're gonna be in Jackson again(jv1234_99 <at> yahoo.com).
                                                      > Maybe we can get on the water. Also, see Message # 21537 to Josh
                                                      > about the Shearwater Regatta....any way you can make it?
                                                      >
                                                      > BTW...Does/did your boat stay at the Sapphire Beach complex? We
                                                      had
                                                      > two H16s there for a week around the first of August...nice place!
                                                      >
                                                      > Jerome Vaughan

                                                      Nice 16. Looks like it was in good condition. Too bad you couldn't
                                                      catch the guy in front of you the whole way across Ross Barnett! :)
                                                      I have never sailed there. I have my boat in Birmingham and sail it
                                                      in Orange Beach mostly. BTW- It's still for sale!

                                                      Andy
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