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  • bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com
    Messages List ... 1. Joy Chowdhury, Re: Localized URL and Domain Name 2. Shyamal K. Ganguly, Re: Localized URL and Domain Name Reply 1 ... From: Joy Chowdhury
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 22, 2007
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      Messages List
      1. Joy Chowdhury, Re: Localized URL and Domain Name
      2. Shyamal K. Ganguly, Re: Localized URL and Domain Name

      Reply 1
      From: Joy Chowdhury <boip1@...>
      Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:28 pm
      Subject: Re: [bdresearchers] Localized URL and Domain Name


      You're all making good points. I think I miscommunicated my points. Let me clarify.

      1. I did not say that we forget Bangla and learn English. I have a huge love for my mother language as all of you do. I only wanted to express a different perspective from my pragmatic viewpoint.

      2. I don't think it is wise to compare a day labor of Saudi with a medical doctor in the United States. The influence and impact of a medical doctor will be more significant in many aspects than the day labor for a society.

      3. My point was how could we prepare our younger generation for the global economy?

      4. When a society achieve economy freedom, other social factors seem to take right course. A society is better off with strong economy than with poverty in terms of human rights, law and order, life styles, etc.

      5. My frustration is, I see a lot of emotion in our people; but when it comes to taking steps to preserve and respect our people and heritage, I see a tremendous weakness; I see no results.

      6. I think the best way to solve a lot of our social and economical problems is to increase skills and knowledge of our population and leverage those skills and knowledge to global economy. I mean providing solutions and services for the global economy. There are a lot of opportunity in IT, Healthcare, Manufacturing, etc, where Bangladesh can play role. One of you compared us with China. Chinese are learning English to compete for global market. In reality, Chinese have hired American instructors to teach English in Chinese schools. It has been said in many articles that one reason China is falling behind from India in IT outsourcing because of their language problem. Accenture recently closed down there IT shops in China due to language barrier.

      7. It's obvious that Vista was shipped with mulit-language options. Localization is no new term as well. Google, Yahoo, etc. all have localized search engine. However, my point was not about localization. I only expressed a view that we Bangladeshi graduates need to speak better English. I strongly believe it would open up many doors for us in global job opportunities. I am not saying there are Fortune 1000 jobs knocking in our door today. Yet, I believe with right planning and positioning Bangladesh can be a better IT outsourcing partner than the Philippines in future. But to achieve that goal, Infrastructure and language barriers need to be over come.


      Reply 2
      From: "Shyamal K. Ganguly" <sganguly@...>
      Date: Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:16 am
      Subject: RE: [bdresearchers] Localized URL and Domain Name

      Nazia Habib-Mintz wrote:
      "We are already weak in many ways, there is no need to make us weaker any more
      breaking confidence in our fundamentals like language."

      I Agree 100%. We have a rich language set with excellent Grammer and Phonetics,
      with a support of huge collections of litterature, Music, Drama. Bengali
      Language is spoken by close to 250 Million people.

      With the advances in Digital Signal Processing (DSP Chips) and Computing Power
      (translations among Languages) will be seamless. We will need our Bangladeshi
      Entrepreneurs in IT should look into it. I am interested to talk to them at
      484-334-8290 Extn. 8001

      Shyamal Ganguly
      Reading, Pennsylvania, USA

      Previous Messages
      From: bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Nazia Habib-Mintz
      Sent: Mon 12/17/2007 2:50 PM
      To: bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [bdresearchers] Localized URL and Domain Name

      Can we for a moment think about other successful countries in the world
      who are not fluent in English like China or South Korea? May be we can
      be like Chinese, where they have formulated phonetic English based
      script for each of the Chinese mandarin words. Like, thank you is xie
      xie (shie shie pronounced) Chinese mandarin. Xie Xie is the English
      spelling of the Chinese word which is taught in school from a very age.
      So, everyone in china can spell their mandarin words both in english and
      in Chinese. If you type this word in google, you will see chinese
      scripts on the url of google search.

      The importance of English is unquestionable, but to question our own
      language's usefulness at this point is simply flawed. We are already
      weak in many ways, there is no need to make us weaker any more by
      breaking confidence in our fundamentals like language. It is deep seeded
      in our identity. Lets try to use Chinese technique based on it phonetics
      and come up with strict spelling of Bengali words using English
      alphabets. I don't know all the details on how the chiense domain names
      works, but they certainly have two scripts, one is English and other is
      Chinese. That way we will be able to have Bengali domain names, while
      can be searched both in Bengali and English.


      On 11/7/2007 7:55 PM, bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      > Messages List
      > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > 1. Shyamal K. Ganguly, Re: Localized URL and Domain Name
      > 2. Murtoza, Re: Localized URL and Domain Name
      > 3. Rana R, Re: Localized URL and Domain Name
      > Reply 1
      > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > From: "Shyamal K. Ganguly" <sganguly@...
      > <mailto:sganguly%40sigmabit.com>>
      > Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 4:55 pm
      > Subject: RE: [bdresearchers] Re: Localized URL and Domain Name
      > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > In praise of Bangla Bhasha my Mother Tongue.
      > We can have our cake and eat it it too.
      > Not all Bangladeshis have to learn English to make a living outside
      > Bangladesh. Bangla is an accepted language world over and no
      > Bangladeshi should feel sorry for himself not being able to SPEAK
      > FLUENT ENGLISH. History says that the ENGLISH when they came to India
      > had to learn BENGALI from Iswarchandra Vidyasagar at Fort William College.
      > Do not mix up economics and mobility of a few people with the desitiny
      > of Bangladeshis in general. There is hardly any difference between a
      > Medical Doctor overseas earning good money and a slave in Dubai. They
      > are both overseas making money to save and come back.
      > There are at least 100 major nations with their distinct language and
      > culture in the international arena. French, German, Spanish are major
      > languages in Europe and not just the English. Bangladeshis must learn
      > English in their schools, but they are not all going to drive
      > themselves to serve their country from overseas. That kind of metality
      > create Thieves among us like Tariq Zia.
      > Shyamal Ganguly
      > Reading, Pennsylvania
      > Reply 2
      > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > From: "murtoza ( মুর্তà¦oeা )" <murtoza@...
      > <mailto:murtoza%40gmail.com>>
      > Cc: "Em Pannah" <epannah@... <mailto:epannah%40yahoo.com>>,
      > firojalam04@... <mailto:firojalam04%40yahoo.com>
      > Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 7:37 pm
      > Subject: Re: [bdresearchers] Re: Localized URL and Domain Name
      > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > Hi Joy,
      > 1st thing, English interface computer is not a tool to learn English,
      > if so as you said:
      > "I have seen how a BUET graduate failed job inteview just because a
      > lack of better English. In technical skills the Buet graduate had
      > superior skills set. However, in a 20 minute interview, an employer
      > cannot judge the technical skills, if the candidate fails to sell his
      > skill sets, because of a lack of interpersonal skill."
      > Then why BUET students are not expert in English, according to you
      > they should expert in English coz computer is still in English interface.
      > We got independence 36y ago, still now how many people is under
      > poverty? We could not give them the minimum education, shelter, food,
      > medicine, etc. How you can teach them English!
      > You talked about India. "Now India is 6th largest economy in the
      > World." Is the reason coz they know English!? Then why India also
      > working in localization, not only for Hindi, but also other language
      > like Bengali, Tamil, etc..
      > You said, "I think if we make computer interfaces in Bangla, it will
      > have a negetive impact on students who now learns English in order to
      > communicate in English medium computer." Hmm, I think it will create
      > more problem. Like, if Computer interface will come in Bangla, how an
      > American will use the Computer coz no American knows English!! One
      > thing, we are not forcing any body to use anything. If a person don't
      > use computer we cannot force him. Computer has many language interface
      > like English, Japanese, Chinese, Arabic, etc. People are free to
      > choose their language. Who want to learn English with the help of
      > computer, they are free to choose. Hope you got the point.
      > One thing I wanna say, just count how many people use computer. And
      > you wanna teach people english by english interface computer. I have a
      > better idea. If Bangladesh govt order to publish all the news paper in
      > english then all the news paper reader will learn english specially
      > student, right?
      > Its not easy to teach English a large number of people of Bangladesh
      > in a short time. All the govt office is trying to computerization now.
      > So many old, experience workers are afraid coz they don't know how to
      > operate computer. According to Bangladesh govt, all office works are
      > done by Bangla language. Then why the worker have to use English
      > interface computer. The bangla interfaced computer will help the
      > worker to work more efficiently. Now a days many local software
      > developer developing some software with bangla interface which is very
      > good.
      > Knowing english is not the key of an economy of a country. Just think,
      > Chinese people don't know english also Japanese but they are very big
      > economy. Even a large number of many European country don't know
      > english, but their economy is very big. The reason is not the the
      > localization of computer. A good economist can say the reason.
      > Reply 3
      > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > From: Rana R <rana0001@... <mailto:rana0001%40yahoo.com>>
      > Date: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:56 am
      > Subject: Re: Localized URL and Domain Name
      > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > For people who make random comment for the love of the economic
      > development, here is why it is important:
      > Vista is shipped in 100 languages (37 so far and rest incoming).
      > Domain name and URL supported in most of the unicode langs already. So
      > if the effort of developing localized domain and url is successful
      > with the right fallback, this can be used in military, intranet,
      > secured organization etc that would save dictionary hacking.
      > This logic and technology can be recycle and reuse for Encryption
      > Company using indic charset that can make the decoding 65K times
      > complex and thus can be sold to others.
      > hope that is enough convincing other than feel good.
      > Thanks Firoj Alam and working group, wish you all the best
      > -Rana
      > Previous Messages
      > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > From: bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:bdresearchers%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Joy Chowdhury
      > Sent: Fri 11/2/2007 2:13 PM
      > To: bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bdresearchers%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Cc: Em Pannah; firojalam04@... <mailto:firojalam04%40yahoo.com>
      > Subject: Re: [bdresearchers] Re: Localized URL and Domain Name
      > Hi Firoj,
      > I concur with you about the localization. However, in my perspective,
      > I think
      > Bangladesh can be more beneficial if our people develop skills and
      > knowledge in
      > English and prepared them to secure jobs outside of Bangladesh. Not
      > only that we
      > need to develop skills and language in order to communicate ourselves
      > better
      > with foreign countries. We have no resources in Bangladesh expect huge
      > population. Our country is also sitting on water and other natural
      > dissaster
      > variables, which can have severe impact to our people. What do you
      > think will
      > poise us to fight over population and natural dissaster? I think our
      > international skills and knowledge can help us migrate to other
      > developed nation
      > from where we can help our motherland. Why do you think India is
      > slowly becoming
      > developed country? If you scan corporate America, you will see there are
      > thousands of VPs, Directors, CEOs are origin in India. It just happend
      > in last
      > 15 years. Because of their executive positions and skilled manpower in the
      > India, it became a fit for Fortune 1000 companies to outsource IT
      > business to
      > India. IT dollars have brought prosperities to India. Now India is 6th
      > largest
      > economy in the World. When Rabindranath Tagore said, "What Bangalees think
      > today, India will think tomorrow." Look at where is India today and
      > where it
      > will be in 2020. Americans will seek jobs in India in 2020.
      > On the other hand, a Bangladesh graduate medical doctor have barriers in
      > speaking fluent English, causing them difficulties launching a big job
      > in the
      > United States, or getting into residency. Please pardon me for
      > generalization. I
      > just wanted to make an argument.
      > I think if we make computer interfaces in Bangla, it will have a
      > negetive impact
      > on students who now learns English in order to communicate in English
      > medium
      > computer. We have 300 thousand graduates coming out of colleges and
      > universities
      > per year. We want make them ready to be a resource for global market.
      > English is
      > one of the key factor to participate in global economy. If we don't
      > have to go
      > any far to rationalize how English has helped India. Some of the
      > programmers I
      > have seen, who looked like a bus driver, but surely could speak
      > English; had no
      > problem in communication at work in America. On the other hand, I have
      > seen how
      > a BUET graduate failed job inteview just because a lack of better
      > English. In
      > technical skills the Buet graduate had superior skills set. However,
      > in a 20
      > minute interview, an employer cannot judge the technical skills, if the
      > candidate fails to sell his skill sets, because of a lack of interpersonal
      > skill.
      > However, on the other side of the token, I do see how Bangla interface
      > can help
      > local people who do not have to go to work or do business
      > internationally. But,
      > I think there is a merit on the concept that we do have to expand our
      > reach
      > globally for business and jobs. We don't need to send iliterate people
      > to Saudi
      > or Malaysia. We need to prepare skill manpower to send them to work in
      > America,
      > Europe, or soon to be China where all the big Economic actions are.
      > Imagine we
      > had 1 million skilled workers in the United States; with their remittence,
      > investment Bangladesh would have had so much prosperity.
      > I think enough said.
      > Joy.
      > Firoj Alam <firojalam04@... <mailto:firojalam04%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
      > Dear Joy and Panna vai, Thanks for both of your comments. You people
      > may be
      > don't know that the world peoples are now trying to make things
      > international or
      > local where the concept made the term "Internationalized" and
      > "Localized". You
      > May be don't know that Microsoft Developing Microsoft Vista and Office in
      > different Local Language including Bangla. Do you thing it make sense?
      > Lots of
      > people working to localize URL by leading icann
      > <http://us.f346.mail.yahoo.com/ym/www.icann.org
      > <http://us.f346.mail.yahoo.com/ym/www.icann.org>> . As world move into the
      > international concept we are also trying to move with it.
      > You may don't want to make your URL in local language. It does not
      > matter. Your
      > domain name will be in two language one is English (ASCII) another is
      > Bangla.
      > Now its your choice to which you want to access to your domain name.
      > You can
      > choose either one of them.
      > If you want to know more about it please go through the links, how
      > world people
      > working on it:
      > http://idn.icann.org/ <http://idn.icann.org/> <http://idn.icann.org/
      > <http://idn.icann.org/>> icann lunches URL in 15 local
      > language for experiment.
      > http://icann.org/topics/idn/ <http://icann.org/topics/idn/>
      > <http://icann.org/topics/idn/ <http://icann.org/topics/idn/
      <http://icann.org/topics/idn/> >>
      > http://www.minc.org/Default.aspx?&lang=en
      > <http://www.minc.org/Default.aspx?&lang=en
      <http://www.minc.org/Default.aspx?<=en> >
      > <http://www.minc.org/Default.aspx?&lang=en
      > <http://www.minc.org/Default.aspx?&lang=en
      <http://www.minc.org/Default.aspx?<=en> >>
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name
      > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name>
      > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name
      > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name>>
      > http://www.iana.org/assignments/idn/
      > <http://www.iana.org/assignments/idn/>
      > <http://www.iana.org/assignments/idn/
      > <http://www.iana.org/assignments/idn/>>
      > thanks.
      > Firoj Alam
      > Research Programmer
      > CRBLP(Center for Research on Bangla Language Processing)
      > http://www.bracuniversity.ac.bd/research/crblp/
      > <http://www.bracuniversity.ac.bd/research/crblp/>
      > <http://www.bracuniversity.ac.bd/research/crblp/
      > <http://www.bracuniversity.ac.bd/research/crblp/>>
      > BRAC University, Dhaka, Bangladesh.
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: Em Pannah <epannah@... <mailto:epannah%40yahoo.com>>
      > Sent: Monday, 29 October, 2007 2:31:57 AM
      > Subject: Re: Localized URL and Domain Name
      > Dear Readers,
      > Joy is right. With full respect to my mother-tongue, BANGLA, I insist
      > that we don't move backward. Instead, Bangladeshi entrepreneurs and
      > experts could invest their time and talent in developing Web-Portal
      > tools to have Bangladesh established in the world's Web-market; a multi
      > billion dollar possibility.
      > With best regards,
      > Emarat Hossain Pannah, CISM, CISSP, CAP, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM
      > Course Chair and Faculty, University of Maryland (UMUC), USA
      > ............ ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ...
      > --- Joy Chowdhury <boip1@yahoo. com <mailto:boip1%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
      > > It did not make any sense. When the whole world is trying to figure
      > > out language that is common and sharable, this concept of 'a' "a" is
      > > going to drive us backward. What's the objective? Feeling good. We
      > > need to invent things that will bring economic development, not
      > > feeling good kind of things.
      > >
      > > Joy
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > http://panl10n. net/wiki/ BengaliccTLD
      > <http://panl10n.net/wiki/BengaliccTLD
      > <http://panl10n.net/wiki/BengaliccTLD>>
      > > http://panl10n. net/wiki/ BengaliCharacter Set
      > <http://panl10n.net/wiki/BengaliCharacterSet
      > <http://panl10n.net/wiki/BengaliCharacterSet>>
      > > http://panl10n. net/wiki/ BengaliDomainNam e
      > <http://panl10n.net/wiki/BengaliDomainName
      > <http://panl10n.net/wiki/BengaliDomainName>>
      > > http://panl10n. net/wiki/ BengaliDomainOth ers
      > <http://panl10n.net/wiki/BengaliDomainOthers
      > <http://panl10n.net/wiki/BengaliDomainOthers>>
      > > http://panl10n. net/wiki/ BengaligTLD
      > <http://panl10n.net/wiki/BengaligTLD
      > <http://panl10n.net/wiki/BengaligTLD>>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > [ Previous messages:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bdresearchers/message/2717
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bdresearchers/message/2717> ]
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