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14 bit midi resolution with BCF 2000??? Possible, especially in FL Studio?

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  • freyjuergen
    How can I get a 14 bit midi fader/knob resolution for the BCF2000 midi-controller? Especialy for Image-Lines FL Studio or the Arturia Synths. I try to
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 3, 2011
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      How can I get a 14 bit midi fader/knob resolution for the BCF2000 midi-controller? Especialy for Image-Lines "FL Studio" or the Arturia Synths.

      I try to explain my problem, I hope you can understand my english:

      Theoretically, like some said, it's possible to have smooth 14 bit resolution for the endless encoders and faders.
      At least with Arturia Moog Modular 14-bit midi controlling with BCF2000 is possible, like some people in Arturia forum wrote. (I asked the question there too, but didn't get a helping answer until now.)

      With BC-Manager, I changed the knob values to 16383 and tried to have 14-bit absolute or relative value changing, but it doesn't work with "Fruityloops" or Arturias "MoogModularV".

      For exsample: after changing the settings of BCF's encoders to 14 bit and set "Value 2" to 16383, in Moog Modulars standalone-mode, knob-tweaking of filtersweeps are still 7-bit rough.
      I know there is a NRPN-Checkbox in MoogModularV and when I press learn on the software, BCF's knob is registered.
      Then, I see in the BC display continous value changes like "...5083, 5084, 5085,..." and so on, till 16383, but I always hear just every 127 steps a frequency change and this change sounds still 7-bit-like.
      I have to turnaround the BCF-encoder now many times more, but the precision and sonic result is the same like 7-Bit.

      When I put the mouse-cursor above a knob of Moog Modular, like "cutoff", on MMV a small window appears, where the acutall frequenzy-value is listet and refreshed during tweaking. So, when I turn the encoder, the values change in fine resoluted 16383 steps on BC display, but on the small Moog window, the frequency-value changes in a rough way, only every 127 steps - and you hear a value-jump. While BC dsiplay counts exactly every 16383 step, the Moog-window just shows 363.78Hz and after 127 steps it jumps noticable to a value of 426.77Hz, for example.

      Someone in Arturia Forum suggested, I should use not high vlaues like 16383, instead test it with 512 or 1024. So, I changed the settings for my test-encoder to:

      ----------------------------------------

      $rev F1 ; Firmware 1.10; BC Manager 2.1.2
      $preset
      .name 'test_jf (all controlls) '
      .snapshot off
      .request off
      .egroups 4
      .fkeys on
      .lock off
      .init
      $encoder 1
      .easypar NRPN 1 1 0 512 absolute/14
      .showvalue on
      .mode 12dot
      .resolution 96 96 96 96
      .default 0

      ...

      -----------------------------------------

      The result is: after many turnarounds of the BC-encoder, MMV's filter knob turns still very slowly till it reaches a value of 32.60 Hz and when BCF's display reached a count of "512".
      Changing the "Value"-setting on BCManagers "General"-page has no effect. For example a value of 64 or 16383 causes the same knob behaviour as described above.

      Side question:
      I use BCF in U1 USB-mode. Is it better to connect it via MIDI to the port of my emu1212m Soundcard? Does this perhaps has influence on 14 bit resolution?

      Frustrating is: when I use an encoder which is configured with normal 7-bit CC127 default-settings, MMV- or Fruityloop-knobs behave like they should: they slide from 0 to highest value, but with this damn, noticable 7-bit leveljumps. *sigh*.
      Please, does anyone know a solution for a higher midi resolution to work smooth, especially in Fruityloops?
      At least an answer that I should forget it, would help me, not to waste more time in trying this...
    • Royce
      Hi ... Faders have a max resolution much less than 16k - Midi values will jump ... Have a look in MidiOx or in Mark s editor to see the outputted Midi messages
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 3, 2011
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        Hi

        > How can I get a 14 bit midi fader/knob resolution for the BCF2000 midi-controller? Especialy for Image-Lines "FL Studio" or the Arturia Synths.
        > Theoretically, like some said, it's possible to have smooth 14 bit resolution for the endless encoders and faders.

        Faders have a max resolution much less than 16k - Midi values will jump

        > At least with Arturia Moog Modular 14-bit midi controlling with BCF2000 is possible, like some people in Arturia forum wrote. (I asked the question there too, but didn't get a helping answer until now.)
        > For exsample: after changing the settings of BCF's encoders to 14 bit and set "Value 2" to 16383, in Moog Modulars standalone-mode, knob-tweaking of filtersweeps are still 7-bit rough.

        > I know there is a NRPN-Checkbox in MoogModularV and when I press learn on the software, BCF's knob is registered.
        > Then, I see in the BC display continous value changes like "...5083, 5084, 5085,..." and so on, till 16383, but I always hear just every 127 steps a frequency change and this change sounds still 7-bit-like.
        > I have to turnaround the BCF-encoder now many times more, but the precision and sonic result is the same like 7-Bit.

        Have a look in MidiOx or in Mark's editor to see the outputted Midi messages from the BC

        > .easypar NRPN 1 1 0 512 absolute/14

        puts out (in a mix of hex and decimal)

        $B0 99 0
        $B0 98 1
        $B0 6 0
        $B0 38 1

        $B0 99 0
        $B0 98 1
        $B0 6 0
        $B0 38 2
        .
        .
        .
        $B0 99 0
        $B0 98 1
        $B0 6 0
        $B0 38 127

        $B0 99 0
        $B0 98 1
        $B0 6 1
        $B0 38 0
        etc

        as you would expect



        > The result is: after many turnarounds of the BC-encoder, MMV's filter knob turns still very slowly till it reaches a value of 32.60 Hz and when BCF's display reached a count of "512".

        You can change the resolution of the encoder depending on the speed of rotation - 4 speeds

        eg
        .resolution 96 200 400 1000


        > Side question:
        > I use BCF in U1 USB-mode. Is it better to connect it via MIDI to the port of my emu1212m Soundcard? Does this perhaps has influence on 14 bit resolution?

        No

        > At least an answer that I should forget it, would help me, not to waste more time in trying this...

        So I don't have to learn the ins and outs of these programs tell me what Midi messages they expect (like my above example) .

        Use MidiOx to build a block of messages and output them (probably via MidiYoke) to make sure you are correct.
        Then post the messages here and we will see if we can help to get the BC to do it.

        All the best

        Royce
      • juergen_frey@gmx.de
        Hello Royce, thank you for your answer! Like I said, I m new to this complexer midi-stuff. I understand this resolution-changing-thing and it works. But more
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 4, 2011
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          Hello Royce,

          thank you for your answer!

          Like I said, I'm new to this complexer midi-stuff. I understand this resolution-changing-thing and it works. But more important is: even, when I have to do more turnarounds of an encoder, the level jumps shouldn't be so rough.

          For Building this block of Midi-messages, like you said, I have to ask, because I think, I don't understand it good enough:
          Do you mean, I have to track the midi-messages of Fruityloops with a program like Midiox or BC-Manager?

          For this, I tried this:

          1.) I installed LoopBe1.
          2.) In Fruityloops I selected System Settings > Midi > "Output"
          3.) I selected "LoopBe Internal MIDI" as output (Channel 2)

          4.) In BCManager I selected:
          OPTIONS > Midi Devices
          >> Input "loopbe INTERNAL MIDI".
          >> Output "2BCF2000"
          5.) BC-Manager Startscreen: VIEW > MIDI > Input messages (general)
          >> RECORD.

          When I restart Fruityloops some Messages from LoopBe are recorded, then it stops after 48 lines. This is recorded:

          $B0 123 0
          $B1 123 0
          $B2 123 0
          $B3 123 0
          $B4 123 0
          $B5 123 0
          $B6 123 0
          $B7 123 0
          $B8 123 0
          $B9 123 0
          $BA 123 0
          $BB 123 0
          $BC 123 0
          $BD 123 0
          $BE 123 0
          $BF 123 0
          $B0 123 0
          $B1 123 0
          $B2 123 0
          $B3 123 0
          $B4 123 0
          $B5 123 0
          $B6 123 0
          $B7 123 0
          $B8 123 0
          $B9 123 0
          $BA 123 0
          $BB 123 0
          $BC 123 0
          $BD 123 0
          $BE 123 0
          $BF 123 0
          $B0 123 0
          $B1 123 0
          $B2 123 0
          $B3 123 0
          $B4 123 0
          $B5 123 0
          $B6 123 0
          $B7 123 0
          $B8 123 0
          $B9 123 0
          $BA 123 0
          $BB 123 0
          $BC 123 0
          $BD 123 0
          $BE 123 0
          $BF 123 0
          $B0 123 0
          $B1 123 0
          $B2 123 0
          $B3 123 0
          $B4 123 0
          $B5 123 0
          $B6 123 0
          $B7 123 0
          $B8 123 0
          $B9 123 0
          $BA 123 0
          $BB 123 0
          $BC 123 0
          $BD 123 0
          $BE 123 0
          $BF 123 0

          (LINE 48)

          When I press play on the DAW it records some other values:

          $FA
          $F2 0 0
          $FC
          $F2 0 0
          $FB
          $F8
          $F8
          ...

          ($F8 is continuous...)

          Did I do it correct?

          By the way: I tested your example, you described in the other post. On BC Managers Start screen: VIEW > MIDI > Input messages (general)and then I tweaked the encoder. For my test encoder in "preset 9" i get a output list like in your example.

          Best,
          juergen

          --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Royce" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi
          >
          > > How can I get a 14 bit midi fader/knob resolution for the BCF2000 midi-controller? Especialy for Image-Lines "FL Studio" or the Arturia Synths.
          > > Theoretically, like some said, it's possible to have smooth 14 bit resolution for the endless encoders and faders.
          >
          > Faders have a max resolution much less than 16k - Midi values will jump
          >
          > > At least with Arturia Moog Modular 14-bit midi controlling with BCF2000 is possible, like some people in Arturia forum wrote. (I asked the question there too, but didn't get a helping answer until now.)
          > > For exsample: after changing the settings of BCF's encoders to 14 bit and set "Value 2" to 16383, in Moog Modulars standalone-mode, knob-tweaking of filtersweeps are still 7-bit rough.
          >
          > > I know there is a NRPN-Checkbox in MoogModularV and when I press learn on the software, BCF's knob is registered.
          > > Then, I see in the BC display continous value changes like "...5083, 5084, 5085,..." and so on, till 16383, but I always hear just every 127 steps a frequency change and this change sounds still 7-bit-like.
          > > I have to turnaround the BCF-encoder now many times more, but the precision and sonic result is the same like 7-Bit.
          >
          > Have a look in MidiOx or in Mark's editor to see the outputted Midi messages from the BC
          >
          > > .easypar NRPN 1 1 0 512 absolute/14
          >
          > puts out (in a mix of hex and decimal)
          >
          > $B0 99 0
          > $B0 98 1
          > $B0 6 0
          > $B0 38 1
          >
          > $B0 99 0
          > $B0 98 1
          > $B0 6 0
          > $B0 38 2
          > .
          > .
          > .
          > $B0 99 0
          > $B0 98 1
          > $B0 6 0
          > $B0 38 127
          >
          > $B0 99 0
          > $B0 98 1
          > $B0 6 1
          > $B0 38 0
          > etc
          >
          > as you would expect
          >
          >
          >
          > > The result is: after many turnarounds of the BC-encoder, MMV's filter knob turns still very slowly till it reaches a value of 32.60 Hz and when BCF's display reached a count of "512".
          >
          > You can change the resolution of the encoder depending on the speed of rotation - 4 speeds
          >
          > eg
          > .resolution 96 200 400 1000
          >
          >
          > > Side question:
          > > I use BCF in U1 USB-mode. Is it better to connect it via MIDI to the port of my emu1212m Soundcard? Does this perhaps has influence on 14 bit resolution?
          >
          > No
          >
          > > At least an answer that I should forget it, would help me, not to waste more time in trying this...
          >
          > So I don't have to learn the ins and outs of these programs tell me what Midi messages they expect (like my above example) .
          >
          > Use MidiOx to build a block of messages and output them (probably via MidiYoke) to make sure you are correct.
          > Then post the messages here and we will see if we can help to get the BC to do it.
          >
          > All the best
          >
          > Royce
          >
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