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Re: Please don't move the Philly College Quartet Contest to Tuesday!

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  • Kyle
    I should make something else clear. I am not necessarily a proponent of Saturday morning, but I am more concerned with not making it on Tuesday. Any time on
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 2, 2009
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      I should make something else clear. I am not necessarily a proponent of Saturday morning, but I am more concerned with not making it on Tuesday. Any time on Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday would be perfect, and I would also like to not have to sing at 8 am either, but it would be better than Tuesday.

      Kyle Kitzmiller

      --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, Michael Ho <tempesttenor@...> wrote:
      >
      > In case people missed Kyle Kitzmiller's email since it was "hidden" in
      > another thread:
      >
      > ------------------------
      >
      > > Wait, when did that happen? This is really unfortunate for those of us who
      > > are competing in the college contest. It forces those of us who can't afford
      > > to be there the whole week to either spend more money than we have, and
      > > we're ALL broke, or to miss the finals and the tag singing on Saturday, not
      > > to mention that we're going to get maybe 1/3 of the attendance we usually
      > > do. Did it really get moved so Sing with the Champs would be open? Please. I
      > > wouldn't be surprised if it were in a ballroom again...I think we just got
      > > downgraded to little kids, and no longer legitimate competitors.
      > >
      > ------------------------
      >
      > According to the official Philly schedule (which is very well hidden on the
      > website, btw Eddie =P), the College Quartet Contest has been moved from the
      > usual 8AM Saturday morning spot to Tuesday 6PM.
      >
      > <
      > http://www.barbershop.org/news-and-events/philadelphia-international-convention/schedule-of-events.html
      > >
      >
      > While we young'uns bemoan the usual early morning start time, moving it to
      > Tuesday night is much, much worse. There are basically two kinds of events
      > at international conventions: competitions and everything else. The former
      > is mandatory and it is difficult to enjoy the latter until you've completed
      > all of the former. No contest, be it the regular Quartet Quarterfinals, the
      > Chorus contest, nor the College Quartet Contest, should be pushed earlier
      > beyond Wednesday for all the reasons Kyle mentioned.
      >
      > All contest sessions should be clustered as tightly together as possible so
      > that:
      > 1) No group of competitors will be forced to attend International earlier
      > than usual.
      > 2) The amount of time that competitors need to be on vocal rest (i.e. not
      > screaming tags at 2AM) can be minimized.
      >
      > I wouldn't go as far as saying that "we just got downgraded to little kids,"
      > but this was definitely a poor logistics decision by the Society.**
      >
      > My ideal scenario would be for the College Quartet Competition and Quartet
      > Quarterfinals to both happen on Wednesday. And according to the schedule,
      > we're not too far away from achieving this! The Quartet Quarterfinals is
      > from 9AM to 7PM on Wednesday while the College Quartet Competition is from
      > 6PM to 10PM on Tuesday. If we can shave 2 hours off of the Quarterfinals,
      > we can fit both contests in one day with the Quarterfinals in the morning
      > and the College Contest at night.
      >
      > This is a good solution because:
      > 1) There is likely some subset of College Quartet Competitors who are
      > competing in the College Quartet Contest only. They can get in on Wednesday
      > morning (I'd imagine that's when most people usually arrive anyway), be done
      > with the contest by the end of the day, and enjoy the rest of the
      > convention.
      >
      > 2) Realistically speaking, for those College Quartets who are also competing
      > in the Quarterfinals, it is likely that few of them will make it to the Semi
      > Finals (phenoms like MIB^2 and Ringmasters excluded). These competitors
      > will also be completely done by Wednesday, though they must sing twice in
      > one day. While this may be a bit of a burden for these competitors, note
      > that the Harmony Inc. International quartet contest has both the Semifinals
      > and the Finals on the same day so it can be done!
      >
      > 3) For those College Competitors who are competing in the chorus contest as
      > well, they'd get done with their competitions a day earlier than normal
      > (Friday instead of Saturday afternoon).
      >
      > 4) Does not cause Quarterfinalists to deviate from their normal routines.
      >
      > And how can we achieve this utopian solution? Dun dun dun...through raising
      > the qualifying score for the Quarterfinals. It's controversial, I know, and
      > it might already be too late for the Board to change it for this year. By
      > the way, I am in favor for raising the qualifying score even if it wasn't
      > for the College Contest issue.
      >
      > The quality of the Society's quartets has risen (a good thing!) and we've
      > seen a steady increase of competitors in the Quarterfinals. We had 50
      > quartets in Anaheim. 50! That's insanity! The quarterfinals are getting
      > way too long.
      >
      > If it is not possible to fit the Quarterfinals and the College Contest in
      > one day...please at least return the College Contest to Saturday morning!
      >
      > -Michael Ho
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Martha Lovejoy
      I think the biggest reason to have the College Contest on Saturday is that then, those guys who are only competing can attend on the weekend only and not miss
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 2, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        I think the biggest reason to have the College Contest on Saturday is that then, those guys who are only competing can attend on the weekend only and not miss work/school/whatever.  Having it on Tuesday means they will need to take off work, making it even more expensive for the "kids" who are not BHS members planning to attend the whole convention anyway.
         Marti Lovejoy
        Proud Owner of SING and SCORES
        SING members have donated over $50,000 to YSF since 2002
        Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA - 37 years so far
        http: //groups.yahoo . com/group/SweetAdelinesScores
        lovejoymar @ sbcglobal.net <--remove spaces from link and edress




        ________________________________
        From: Michael Ho <tempesttenor@...>
        To: Barbershop <bbshop@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 2:17:23 PM
        Subject: [bbshop] Please don't move the Philly College Quartet Contest to Tuesday!

        In case people missed Kyle Kitzmiller's email since it was "hidden" in
        another thread:

        ------------------------

        > Wait, when did that happen? This is really unfortunate for those of us who
        > are competing in the college contest. It forces those of us who can't afford
        > to be there the whole week to either spend more money than we have, and
        > we're ALL broke, or to miss the finals and the tag singing on Saturday, not
        > to mention that we're going to get maybe 1/3 of the attendance we usually
        > do. Did it really get moved so Sing with the Champs would be open? Please. I
        > wouldn't be surprised if it were in a ballroom again...I think we just got
        > downgraded to little kids, and no longer legitimate competitors.
        >
        ------------------------

        According to the official Philly schedule (which is very well hidden on the
        website, btw Eddie =P), the College Quartet Contest has been moved from the
        usual 8AM Saturday morning spot to Tuesday 6PM.

        <
        http://www.barbershop.org/news-and-events/philadelphia-international-convention/schedule-of-events.html
        >

        While we young'uns bemoan the usual early morning start time, moving it to
        Tuesday night is much, much worse.  There are basically two kinds of events
        at international conventions: competitions and everything else.  The former
        is mandatory and it is difficult to enjoy the latter until you've completed
        all of the former.  No contest, be it the regular Quartet Quarterfinals, the
        Chorus contest, nor the College Quartet Contest, should be pushed earlier
        beyond Wednesday for all the reasons Kyle mentioned.

        All contest sessions should be clustered as tightly together as possible so
        that:
        1) No group of competitors will be forced to attend International earlier
        than usual.
        2) The amount of time that competitors need to be on vocal rest (i.e. not
        screaming tags at 2AM) can be minimized.

        I wouldn't go as far as saying that "we just got downgraded to little kids,"
        but this was definitely a poor logistics decision by the Society.**

        My ideal scenario would be for the College Quartet Competition and Quartet
        Quarterfinals to both happen on Wednesday.  And according to the schedule,
        we're not too far away from achieving this!  The Quartet Quarterfinals is
        from 9AM to 7PM on Wednesday while the College Quartet Competition is from
        6PM to 10PM on Tuesday.  If we can shave 2 hours off of the Quarterfinals,
        we can fit both contests in one day with the Quarterfinals in the morning
        and the College Contest at night.

        This is a good solution because:
        1) There is likely some subset of College Quartet Competitors who are
        competing in the College Quartet Contest only.  They can get in on Wednesday
        morning (I'd imagine that's when most people usually arrive anyway), be done
        with the contest by the end of the day, and enjoy the rest of the
        convention.

        2) Realistically speaking, for those College Quartets who are also competing
        in the Quarterfinals, it is likely that few of them will make it to the Semi
        Finals (phenoms like MIB^2 and Ringmasters excluded).  These competitors
        will also be completely done by Wednesday, though they must sing twice in
        one day.  While this may be a bit of a burden for these competitors, note
        that the Harmony Inc. International quartet contest has both the Semifinals
        and the Finals on the same day so it can be done!

        3) For those College Competitors who are competing in the chorus contest as
        well, they'd get done with their competitions a day earlier than normal
        (Friday instead of Saturday afternoon).

        4) Does not cause Quarterfinalists to deviate from their normal routines.

        And how can we achieve this utopian solution?  Dun dun dun...through raising
        the qualifying score for the Quarterfinals.  It's controversial, I know, and
        it might already be too late for the Board to change it for this year.  By
        the way, I am in favor for raising the qualifying score even if it wasn't
        for the College Contest issue.

        The quality of the Society's quartets has risen (a good thing!) and we've
        seen a steady increase of competitors in the Quarterfinals.  We had 50
        quartets in Anaheim.  50!  That's insanity!  The quarterfinals are getting
        way too long.

        If it is not possible to fit the Quarterfinals and the College Contest in
        one day...please at least return the College Contest to Saturday morning!

        -Michael Ho


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Steve Morin
        I agree... I wish they would not change the college contest!!! I m not sure what s going to happen to the Lary Ajer party at this point Steve Morin
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 2, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          I agree... I wish they would not change the college contest!!!

          I'm not sure what's going to happen to the Lary Ajer party at this point

          Steve Morin
          eDesignerz.com<http://eDesignerz.com>
          800-374-8990

          Sent from my iPhone



          On Dec 2, 2009, at 1:44 PM, "Martha Lovejoy" <lovejoymar@...<mailto:lovejoymar@...>> wrote:



          I think the biggest reason to have the College Contest on Saturday is that then, those guys who are only competing can attend on the weekend only and not miss work/school/whatever. Having it on Tuesday means they will need to take off work, making it even more expensive for the "kids" who are not BHS members planning to attend the whole convention anyway.
          Marti Lovejoy
          Proud Owner of SING and SCORES
          SING members have donated over $50,000 to YSF since 2002
          Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA - 37 years so far
          http: //groups.yahoo . com/group/SweetAdelinesScores
          lovejoymar @ sbcglobal.net<http://sbcglobal.net> <--remove spaces from link and edress

          ________________________________
          From: Michael Ho <tempesttenor@<mailto:tempesttenor%40gmail.com>gmail.com<http://gmail.com>>
          To: Barbershop <bbshop@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com>>
          Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 2:17:23 PM
          Subject: [bbshop] Please don't move the Philly College Quartet Contest to Tuesday!

          In case people missed Kyle Kitzmiller's email since it was "hidden" in
          another thread:

          ------------------------

          > Wait, when did that happen? This is really unfortunate for those of us who
          > are competing in the college contest. It forces those of us who can't afford
          > to be there the whole week to either spend more money than we have, and
          > we're ALL broke, or to miss the finals and the tag singing on Saturday, not
          > to mention that we're going to get maybe 1/3 of the attendance we usually
          > do. Did it really get moved so Sing with the Champs would be open? Please. I
          > wouldn't be surprised if it were in a ballroom again...I think we just got
          > downgraded to little kids, and no longer legitimate competitors.
          >
          ------------------------

          According to the official Philly schedule (which is very well hidden on the
          website, btw Eddie =P), the College Quartet Contest has been moved from the
          usual 8AM Saturday morning spot to Tuesday 6PM.

          <
          <http://www.barbershop.org/news-and-events/philadelphia-international-convention/schedule-of-events.html>http://www.barbershop.org/news-and-events/philadelphia-international-convention/schedule-of-events.html
          >

          While we young'uns bemoan the usual early morning start time, moving it to
          Tuesday night is much, much worse. There are basically two kinds of events
          at international conventions: competitions and everything else. The former
          is mandatory and it is difficult to enjoy the latter until you've completed
          all of the former. No contest, be it the regular Quartet Quarterfinals, the
          Chorus contest, nor the College Quartet Contest, should be pushed earlier
          beyond Wednesday for all the reasons Kyle mentioned.

          All contest sessions should be clustered as tightly together as possible so
          that:
          1) No group of competitors will be forced to attend International earlier
          than usual.
          2) The amount of time that competitors need to be on vocal rest (i.e. not
          screaming tags at 2AM) can be minimized.

          I wouldn't go as far as saying that "we just got downgraded to little kids,"
          but this was definitely a poor logistics decision by the Society.**

          My ideal scenario would be for the College Quartet Competition and Quartet
          Quarterfinals to both happen on Wednesday. And according to the schedule,
          we're not too far away from achieving this! The Quartet Quarterfinals is
          from 9AM to 7PM on Wednesday while the College Quartet Competition is from
          6PM to 10PM on Tuesday. If we can shave 2 hours off of the Quarterfinals,
          we can fit both contests in one day with the Quarterfinals in the morning
          and the College Contest at night.

          This is a good solution because:
          1) There is likely some subset of College Quartet Competitors who are
          competing in the College Quartet Contest only. They can get in on Wednesday
          morning (I'd imagine that's when most people usually arrive anyway), be done
          with the contest by the end of the day, and enjoy the rest of the
          convention.

          2) Realistically speaking, for those College Quartets who are also competing
          in the Quarterfinals, it is likely that few of them will make it to the Semi
          Finals (phenoms like MIB^2 and Ringmasters excluded). These competitors
          will also be completely done by Wednesday, though they must sing twice in
          one day. While this may be a bit of a burden for these competitors, note
          that the Harmony Inc. International quartet contest has both the Semifinals
          and the Finals on the same day so it can be done!

          3) For those College Competitors who are competing in the chorus contest as
          well, they'd get done with their competitions a day earlier than normal
          (Friday instead of Saturday afternoon).

          4) Does not cause Quarterfinalists to deviate from their normal routines.

          And how can we achieve this utopian solution? Dun dun dun...through raising
          the qualifying score for the Quarterfinals. It's controversial, I know, and
          it might already be too late for the Board to change it for this year. By
          the way, I am in favor for raising the qualifying score even if it wasn't
          for the College Contest issue.

          The quality of the Society's quartets has risen (a good thing!) and we've
          seen a steady increase of competitors in the Quarterfinals. We had 50
          quartets in Anaheim. 50! That's insanity! The quarterfinals are getting
          way too long.

          If it is not possible to fit the Quarterfinals and the College Contest in
          one day...please at least return the College Contest to Saturday morning!

          -Michael Ho

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jamie Bedford
          I seem to recall the College contest being moved to Saturday morning to feature the youth participants a few years back, though I could be wrong about that. I
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 2, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            I seem to recall the College contest being moved to Saturday morning to
            feature the youth participants a few years back, though I could be wrong
            about that. I think it helped, anyway... The youth movement is certainly on
            the rise, and I'm sure the prospect of competing and being featured at
            international helps spur that growth. It helped my quartet a few years
            back!

            It's tough to fit so much into so little time, but I agree that pushing the
            collegiate contest back to Tuesday is going to make it very difficult for
            the college guys to participate based on cost alone. Maybe that's OK if
            people don't actually want to see collegiate groups, but if they do, then
            who would actually be in the audience anyway? How many people show up to
            the convention in time for this event anyway?

            As for moving the chorus contest to Saturday (again?), I suppose that would
            help get more chorus participants and more overall attendance. It really
            depends on the goals for the convention as mandated by the society.

            Upping the minimum score for a quartet to be invited would be OK with me,
            but my quartet isn't quite in that scoring range yet ;) I agree that 50
            quartets is a bit much to do all in one day for quarterfinals, though. It's
            quite the marathon session for audience and judges alike. While any quartet
            scoring 75+ has earned my respect, there's quite a difference between the
            75's and the 85's, and I'd love to see a higher percentage of higher scores
            if I'm going to sit around for 6 or 8 hours watching the parade of quartets
            :)


            Looking forward to a great convention,

            Jamie Bedford
            Tenor, Voices in Harmony Chorus ( http://www.vihchorus.org )
            Tenor, Brewhouse Quartet ( http://www.brewhousequartet.com )



            > ________________________________
            > From: Michael Ho <tempesttenor@<mailto:tempesttenor%40gmail.com<tempesttenor%2540gmail.com>
            > >gmail.com<http://gmail.com>>
            > To: Barbershop <bbshop@yahoogroups.com <bbshop%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:
            > bbshop%40yahoogroups.com <bbshop%2540yahoogroups.com>>>
            > Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 2:17:23 PM
            > Subject: [bbshop] Please don't move the Philly College Quartet Contest to
            > Tuesday!
            >
            > In case people missed Kyle Kitzmiller's email since it was "hidden" in
            > another thread:
            >
            > ------------------------
            >
            > > Wait, when did that happen? This is really unfortunate for those of us
            > who
            > > are competing in the college contest. It forces those of us who can't
            > afford
            > > to be there the whole week to either spend more money than we have, and
            > > we're ALL broke, or to miss the finals and the tag singing on Saturday,
            > not
            > > to mention that we're going to get maybe 1/3 of the attendance we usually
            >
            > > do. Did it really get moved so Sing with the Champs would be open?
            > Please. I
            > > wouldn't be surprised if it were in a ballroom again...I think we just
            > got
            > > downgraded to little kids, and no longer legitimate competitors.
            > >
            > ------------------------
            >
            > According to the official Philly schedule (which is very well hidden on the
            >
            > website, btw Eddie =P), the College Quartet Contest has been moved from the
            >
            > usual 8AM Saturday morning spot to Tuesday 6PM.
            >
            > <
            > <
            > http://www.barbershop.org/news-and-events/philadelphia-international-convention/schedule-of-events.html
            > >
            > http://www.barbershop.org/news-and-events/philadelphia-international-convention/schedule-of-events.html
            > >
            >
            > While we young'uns bemoan the usual early morning start time, moving it to
            > Tuesday night is much, much worse. There are basically two kinds of events
            > at international conventions: competitions and everything else. The former
            > is mandatory and it is difficult to enjoy the latter until you've completed
            >
            > all of the former. No contest, be it the regular Quartet Quarterfinals, the
            >
            > Chorus contest, nor the College Quartet Contest, should be pushed earlier
            > beyond Wednesday for all the reasons Kyle mentioned.
            >
            > All contest sessions should be clustered as tightly together as possible so
            >
            > that:
            > 1) No group of competitors will be forced to attend International earlier
            > than usual.
            > 2) The amount of time that competitors need to be on vocal rest (i.e. not
            > screaming tags at 2AM) can be minimized.
            >
            > I wouldn't go as far as saying that "we just got downgraded to little
            > kids,"
            > but this was definitely a poor logistics decision by the Society.**
            >
            > My ideal scenario would be for the College Quartet Competition and Quartet
            > Quarterfinals to both happen on Wednesday. And according to the schedule,
            > we're not too far away from achieving this! The Quartet Quarterfinals is
            > from 9AM to 7PM on Wednesday while the College Quartet Competition is from
            > 6PM to 10PM on Tuesday. If we can shave 2 hours off of the Quarterfinals,
            > we can fit both contests in one day with the Quarterfinals in the morning
            > and the College Contest at night.
            >
            > This is a good solution because:
            > 1) There is likely some subset of College Quartet Competitors who are
            > competing in the College Quartet Contest only. They can get in on Wednesday
            >
            > morning (I'd imagine that's when most people usually arrive anyway), be
            > done
            > with the contest by the end of the day, and enjoy the rest of the
            > convention.
            >
            > 2) Realistically speaking, for those College Quartets who are also
            > competing
            > in the Quarterfinals, it is likely that few of them will make it to the
            > Semi
            > Finals (phenoms like MIB^2 and Ringmasters excluded). These competitors
            > will also be completely done by Wednesday, though they must sing twice in
            > one day. While this may be a bit of a burden for these competitors, note
            > that the Harmony Inc. International quartet contest has both the Semifinals
            >
            > and the Finals on the same day so it can be done!
            >
            > 3) For those College Competitors who are competing in the chorus contest as
            >
            > well, they'd get done with their competitions a day earlier than normal
            > (Friday instead of Saturday afternoon).
            >
            > 4) Does not cause Quarterfinalists to deviate from their normal routines.
            >
            > And how can we achieve this utopian solution? Dun dun dun...through raising
            >
            > the qualifying score for the Quarterfinals. It's controversial, I know, and
            >
            > it might already be too late for the Board to change it for this year. By
            > the way, I am in favor for raising the qualifying score even if it wasn't
            > for the College Contest issue.
            >
            > The quality of the Society's quartets has risen (a good thing!) and we've
            > seen a steady increase of competitors in the Quarterfinals. We had 50
            > quartets in Anaheim. 50! That's insanity! The quarterfinals are getting
            > way too long.
            >
            > If it is not possible to fit the Quarterfinals and the College Contest in
            > one day...please at least return the College Contest to Saturday morning!
            >
            > -Michael Ho
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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