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Plagiarizing

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  • Ed Hinkley
    Just wondering how many tunes you ve run across with the same melody but different lyrics. Presley did it to Aura Lee with Love Me Tender. Recently
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 30, 2009
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      Just wondering how many tunes you've run across with the same melody but different lyrics. Presley did it to "Aura Lee" with "Love Me Tender."

      Recently someone mentioned "Red River Valley" as a nice tune. It was so nice that Gene Autry "borrowed' most of the melody for his composition of a great old tune titled "That Silver Haired Daddy of Mine." (which incidentally I have a chart on both)

      Any others you can name?

      Ed H

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • vobass
      ... Ed et al: I ll play. The Supremes *borrowed* Bach s Minuet in G for the melody of their Lover s Concerto. They altered some of the note values, but
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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        --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Hinkley" <ehink557@...> wrote:
        >
        > Just wondering how many tunes you've run across with the same melody but different lyrics. Presley did it to "Aura Lee" with "Love Me Tender."
        >
        > Recently someone mentioned "Red River Valley" as a nice tune. It was so nice that Gene Autry "borrowed' most of the melody for his composition of a great old tune titled "That Silver Haired Daddy of Mine." (which incidentally I have a chart on both)
        >
        > Any others you can name?
        >
        > Ed H
        >

        Ed et al:

        I'll play. The Supremes *borrowed* Bach's "Minuet in G" for the melody of their "Lover's Concerto." They altered some of the note values, but it's still quite recognizable as Bach's piece.

        In harmony,
        Vern Otwell
        Bass (and faux tenor)
        Roswell (GA) Firehouse Harmony Brigade
      • Dave Nicholson
        How about Greensleves and What Child Is This, as having the same melody. Dave Nicholson Bass of New Horizons Chorus and former bass of Chairmen of the
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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          How about "Greensleves" and "What Child Is This," as having the same melody.

          Dave Nicholson

          Bass of "New Horizons Chorus"
          and former bass of "Chairmen of the Chord"

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tom Emmert
          The Dixieland classic Tin Roof Blues (1923, New Orleans Rhythm Kings) was later morphed into Make Love To Me (lyrics by Kim Gannon) and sung by Ella, and
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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            The Dixieland classic "Tin Roof Blues" (1923, New Orleans Rhythm Kings) was later morphed into "Make Love To Me" (lyrics by Kim Gannon)
            and sung by Ella, and Helen Forrest, among others.

            Neal Hefti's "Li'l Darlin'" was a Count Basie instrumental. Jon Hendricks or Lambert, Hendricks & Ross later added words. (It's on two RealGroup CD's in a cappella form.) Bart Howard wrote a different set of lyrics called "Don't Dream Of Anybody But Me", and this morphing was recorded by the Mel-Tones.

            In a major music reference book (whose title escapes me just now) there is a chapter titled "Elegant Plagiarism" - a catalog of pop tunes derived from classical/baroque/romantic compositions. Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff and Puccini and Dvorak are well represented.

            But its list is far from complete - and a team of us at WMKV have managed to fill it out quite a bit. Let me know if you'd like a copy.

            Tom in Cincy
            http://www.wmkvfm.org/


            --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Hinkley" <ehink557@...> wrote:
            >
            > Just wondering how many tunes you've run across with the same melody but different lyrics. Presley did it to "Aura Lee" with "Love Me Tender."
            >
            > Recently someone mentioned "Red River Valley" as a nice tune. It was so nice that Gene Autry "borrowed' most of the melody for his composition of a great old tune titled "That Silver Haired Daddy of Mine." (which incidentally I have a chart on both)
            >
            > Any others you can name?
            >
            > Ed H
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Raymond Davis
            My old pal, Paul Olguin, who sang with me in Special Feature, used to always comment on how the melody of The Masters Of Harmony s I Miss You was really the
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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              My old pal, Paul Olguin, who sang with me in Special Feature, used to
              always comment on how the melody of The Masters Of Harmony's "I Miss
              You" was really the melody to the theme to "Star Trek"....

              Raymond Davis
              Tenor, Late Show
              Anaheim bound (and really going this time!!)
            • Graham Fagan
              As a Canadian I certainly heard God Save the King/Queen long before I heard My Country tis of Thee .....So I ve just asumed the Brits did it first ?
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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                As a Canadian I certainly heard " God Save the King/Queen " long before I heard " My Country 'tis of Thee " .....So I've just asumed the Brits did it first ?

                Graham Fagan

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • John Witmer
                Oh yeah? I suppose next you re going to say that the Magna Carta came before the Declaration of Independence. Some people will twist anything. ... From:
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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                  Oh yeah?
                  I suppose next you're going to say that the Magna Carta came before the Declaration of Independence.
                  Some people will twist anything. <grin>
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Graham Fagan
                  To: The HARMONET
                  Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:33 PM
                  Subject: [bbshop] Re: Plagiarizing


                  As a Canadian I certainly heard " God Save the King/Queen " long before I heard " My Country 'tis of Thee " .....So I've just asumed the Brits did it first ?

                  Graham Fagan

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Nick Alexander
                  A Lover s Concerto , adapted from J.S. Bach s minuet in G, was recorded by a group call The Toys , not the Supremes. It was released 10/02/65 and made it to
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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                    "A Lover's Concerto", adapted from J.S. Bach's minuet in G, was recorded by
                    a group call "The Toys", not the Supremes. It was released 10/02/65 and
                    made it to # 2 on the Billboard charts for three weeks. The song that kept
                    it from being number one: "Yesterday" by the Beatles! which was number one
                    for four weeks.

                    Nick Alexander, VM-MC

                    (and retired radio disk jockey who is full of useless trivia!!)









                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Richard Word
                    Don t forget the most famous Barbershop example, Merideth Wilson plagerizing himself! Seventy-six Trombones played slowly pretty much equals Goodnight My
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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                      Don't forget the most famous Barbershop example, Merideth Wilson plagerizing himself! "Seventy-six Trombones" played slowly pretty much equals "Goodnight My Someone"!
                      Rick Word
                      Atlanta

                      --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Hinkley" <ehink557@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Just wondering how many tunes you've run across with the same melody but different lyrics. Presley did it to "Aura Lee" with "Love Me Tender."
                      >
                      > Recently someone mentioned "Red River Valley" as a nice tune. It was so nice that Gene Autry "borrowed' most of the melody for his composition of a great old tune titled "That Silver Haired Daddy of Mine." (which incidentally I have a chart on both)
                      >
                      > Any others you can name?
                      >
                      > Ed H
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Jim Adams
                      If you are going to go that route then look at Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat. I think there is only one tune in the whole piece! From:
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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                        If you are going to go that route then look at Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat. I think there is only one tune in the whole piece!

                        From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Word
                        Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:14 PM
                        To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [bbshop] Re: Plagiarizing


                        Don't forget the most famous Barbershop example, Merideth Wilson plagerizing himself! "Seventy-six Trombones" played slowly pretty much equals "Goodnight My Someone"!
                        Rick Word
                        Atlanta

                        --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ed Hinkley" <ehink557@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Just wondering how many tunes you've run across with the same melody but different lyrics. Presley did it to "Aura Lee" with "Love Me Tender."
                        >
                        > Recently someone mentioned "Red River Valley" as a nice tune. It was so nice that Gene Autry "borrowed' most of the melody for his composition of a great old tune titled "That Silver Haired Daddy of Mine." (which incidentally I have a chart on both)
                        >
                        > Any others you can name?
                        >
                        > Ed H
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Marty Israel
                        Hi Rick! In all fairness, he had to, since, in a scene outside Marian s house right before Professor Hill gets arrested, the two songs are sung together. Canto
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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                          Hi Rick!



                          In all fairness, he had to, since, in a scene outside Marian's house right before Professor Hill gets arrested, the two songs are sung together.



                          Canto ergo sum



                          Marty



                          To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                          From: rickword@...
                          Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:14:18 +0000
                          Subject: [bbshop] Re: Plagiarizing





                          Don't forget the most famous Barbershop example, Merideth Wilson plagerizing himself! "Seventy-six Trombones" played slowly pretty much equals "Goodnight My Someone"!
                          Rick Word
                          Atlanta

                          --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Hinkley" <ehink557@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Just wondering how many tunes you've run across with the same melody but different lyrics. Presley did it to "Aura Lee" with "Love Me Tender."
                          >
                          > Recently someone mentioned "Red River Valley" as a nice tune. It was so nice that Gene Autry "borrowed' most of the melody for his composition of a great old tune titled "That Silver Haired Daddy of Mine." (which incidentally I have a chart on both)
                          >
                          > Any others you can name?
                          >
                          > Ed H
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >









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                        • Alan Gordon
                          ... I had forgotten about that! There s an old jazz song (I have it on an Elaa CD around here somehwere... can t find it) called Out of the Blue or something
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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                            --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, Raymond Davis <BBSRaymond@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > My old pal, Paul Olguin, who sang with me in Special Feature, used to
                            > always comment on how the melody of The Masters Of Harmony's "I Miss
                            > You" was really the melody to the theme to "Star Trek"....
                            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>


                            I had forgotten about that!

                            There's an old jazz song (I have it on an Elaa CD around here somehwere... can't find it) called "Out of the Blue" or something like that. It is very similar to the melody of the STar Trek theme plus the lyrics fit it perfectly!

                            Alan
                            gotchabari@...
                          • Martha Lovejoy
                            So this explains why my husband always calls  Ode to Joy the theme from Die Hard?   The easiest arrangement I ever plagiarized happened because part of the
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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                              So this explains why my husband always calls "Ode to Joy" the theme from "Die Hard?" 

                              The easiest arrangement I ever plagiarized happened because part of the tune I was trying to arrange was exactly the same as a more popular song, only it started one beat later in the sequence.... once I got that part out of the way, the rest was easy!
                               Marti Lovejoy
                              Proud Owner of SING which raised $9315 for YSF in 2008
                              Score Collector for SING (and the site below)
                              Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA - 36 years so far
                              http: //groups.yahoo . com/group/SweetAdelinesScores
                              lovejoymar @ sbcglobal.net <--remove spaces from link and edress




                              ________________________________
                              From: Ed Hinkley <ehink557@...>
                              To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:03:11 PM
                              Subject: [bbshop] Plagiarizing

                              Just wondering how many tunes you've run across with the same melody but different lyrics. Presley did it to "Aura Lee"  with "Love Me Tender."

                              Recently someone mentioned "Red River Valley" as a nice tune. It was so nice that Gene Autry "borrowed' most of the melody for his composition of a great old tune titled "That Silver Haired Daddy of Mine." (which incidentally I have a chart on both)

                              Any others you can name?

                              Ed H

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              ------------------------------------

                              Yahoo! Groups Links



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Richard Word
                              Marty, I think you are referring to two other songs Lida Rose and Will I ever Tell You that are sung first separately, then simultaneously, which is the
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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                                Marty, I think you are referring to two other songs "Lida Rose" and "Will I ever Tell You" that are sung first separately, then simultaneously, which is the scene outside Marian's house. These songs were designed to fit together, but they are not similar.

                                The only time I recall "76 Trombones" and "Goodnight My Someone" sung together is in the bridge scene, where they are sung alternately, not simultaneously. This is where one begins to notice the similarity in the two songs.
                                Best regards,
                                Rick

                                --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, Marty Israel <firmbari@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Rick!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > In all fairness, he had to, since, in a scene outside Marian's house right before Professor Hill gets arrested, the two songs are sung together.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Canto ergo sum
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Marty
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: rickword@...
                                > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:14:18 +0000
                                > Subject: [bbshop] Re: Plagiarizing
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Don't forget the most famous Barbershop example, Merideth Wilson plagerizing himself! "Seventy-six Trombones" played slowly pretty much equals "Goodnight My Someone"!
                                > Rick Word
                                > Atlanta
                                >
                                > --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Hinkley" <ehink557@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Just wondering how many tunes you've run across with the same melody but different lyrics. Presley did it to "Aura Lee" with "Love Me Tender."
                                > >
                                > > Recently someone mentioned "Red River Valley" as a nice tune. It was so nice that Gene Autry "borrowed' most of the melody for his composition of a great old tune titled "That Silver Haired Daddy of Mine." (which incidentally I have a chart on both)
                                > >
                                > > Any others you can name?
                                > >
                                > > Ed H
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > _________________________________________________________________
                                > Internet Explorer 8 – Get your Hotmail Accelerated. Download free!
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                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Steve O'Conor
                                Vern Otwell wrote: ...The Supremes *borrowed* Bach s Minuet in G for the melody of their Lover s Concerto. They altered some of the note values, but it s
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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                                  Vern Otwell wrote:
                                  "...The Supremes *borrowed* Bach's "Minuet in G" for the melody of their "Lover's Concerto." They altered some of the note values, but it's still quite recognizable as Bach's piece."

                                  Actually, it was The Toys whose 1965 recording made it to number 2 on the Billboard charts. The Supremes (and others) recorded it later.

                                  ~Steve O'Conor



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Singing Man
                                  But I think the record has to be the old timey song The Great Speckled Bird. I can think of three other songs with that melody (1) I m Thinking Tonight of My
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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                                    But I think the record has to be the old timey song The Great Speckled Bird. I can think of three other songs with that melody (1) I'm Thinking Tonight of My Blue Eyes, (2) Wild Side of Life, (3) It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels.

                                    Larry D
                                    Vaya con Dios
                                    http://home.comcast.net/~singingman7/index.html
                                    http://home.hiwaay.net/~singer/FR.htm

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Shelley Herman
                                    ... Hard?   ... is in the bridge scene, where they are sung alternately, not simultaneously.. This is where one begins to notice the similarity in the two
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Mar 31, 2009
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                                      > How about "Greensleves" and "What Child Is This," as having the same melody.
                                      >So this explains why my husband always calls "Ode to Joy" the theme from "Die
                                      Hard?" 
                                      >The only time I recall "76 Trombones" and "Goodnight My Someone" sung together
                                      is in the bridge scene, where they are sung alternately, not simultaneously..
                                      This is where one begins to notice the similarity in the two songs.

                                      "Greensleeves" was written over 100 years before "What Child Is This" words
                                      were written for the melody. Greensleeves originally referred to ladies of
                                      dubious reputation whose sleeves became grass stained while they were
                                      pursuing their profession.

                                      Ode To Joy" was written in 1785 by the German poet, playwright and historian
                                      Friedrich Schiller. The poem celebrates the ideal of unity and brotherhood
                                      of all mankind. It is best known for its musical setting by Ludwig van
                                      Beethoven in the final movement of his Ninth Symphony (completed in 1824)

                                      Also, when I borrow money from my cousin Helen Joy, the money is then owed
                                      to Joy.

                                      If you listen to the melody lines of "76 Trombones" and "Goodnight My
                                      Someone" it is obvious that it is the same melody.

                                      In 1893, Katharine Lee Bates a professor at Wellesley College took a train
                                      trip across America. Several of the sights on her trip inspired her,
                                      including the Chicago Worlds Fair, known as the "White City" with it¹s
                                      alabaster buildings; the wheat fields of Kansas, and the majestic view of
                                      the Great Plains from atop Pikes Peak. On that mountain, the words of a
                                      poem came to her. It quickly caught the public's fancy. A tune composed by
                                      Samuel A. Ward was adapted to the poem and although they never met. The
                                      song was America The Beautiful.

                                      A beautiful song, popular in the 1950's was "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows"
                                      was adapted (stolen) from Chopin's Fantasy Impromptu.

                                      The music books are full of similar examples. It's part of how music is
                                      created.


                                      Shelley Herman
                                      saherman@...
                                    • Tom Emmert
                                      ... Though oft credited with the Minuet in G , It appears that Bach himself plagiarized it from one Christian Petzold. And while Minuet in G is published in
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Apr 1, 2009
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                                        --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Steve O'Conor" <soconor@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Vern Otwell wrote:
                                        > "...The Supremes *borrowed* Bach's "Minuet in G" for the melody of their "Lover's Concerto." They altered some of the note values, but it's still quite recognizable as Bach's piece."
                                        >
                                        > Actually, it was The Toys whose 1965 recording made it to number 2 on the Billboard charts. The Supremes (and others) recorded it later.
                                        >
                                        > ~Steve O'Conor
                                        >
                                        >

                                        Though oft credited with the "Minuet in G", It appears that Bach himself plagiarized it from one Christian Petzold.

                                        And while "Minuet in G" is published in 3/4 time, "A Lover's Concerto" was morphed to 4/4, Just like so many pop singers renderings of the "Star Spangled Banner" at the ballpark.

                                        Tom in Cincy
                                      • Tom Emmert
                                        Well, I didn t say that quite right. It seems Bach didn t rip off the work, but rather someone else wrote it in Anna Magdalena s notebook; and later
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Apr 1, 2009
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                                          Well, I didn't say that quite right.

                                          It seems Bach didn't rip off the work, but rather someone else wrote it in Anna Magdalena's notebook; and later musicologists wrongly attributed it to Bach.

                                          My 'umble apologies, Johann.

                                          Tom

                                          --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Emmert" <fclef@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Though oft credited with the "Minuet in G", It appears that Bach himself plagiarized it from one Christian Petzold.
                                          >
                                        • Duane Johnson
                                          ... Yeah, he probably didn t have the right software to rip it. :-} Duane Johnson
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Apr 1, 2009
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                                            --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Emmert" <fclef@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Well, I didn't say that quite right.
                                            >
                                            > It seems Bach didn't rip off the work,...

                                            Yeah, he probably didn't have the right software to rip it. :-}

                                            Duane Johnson
                                          • Bob Landry
                                            There is a theme in Chabrier s Espana Rhapsody that is note for note like the verse of the song Hot Diggity which was made famous by Perry Como in the late
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Apr 1, 2009
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                                              There is a theme in Chabrier's "Espana Rhapsody" that is note for note like the verse of the song "Hot Diggity" which was made famous by Perry Como in the late 1950s.






                                              Bob Landry, member, SPEBSQSA,
                                              tagging since 1946
                                              The guy with the "Little Black Book" of Tags
                                              Bari, "Tag Team", (unregistered)
                                              Acadiana Chapter, Jennings, LA
                                              Alumnus of HC 1973-84




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