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Re: PIONEERS Meeting, etc.

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  • John Hosie
    I have very mixed feelings on this. It seems a lot of emotions are flowing. This type of situation often does not lead to rational action. Personally, I
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 29, 2007
      I have very mixed feelings on this. It seems a lot of emotions are flowing. This type of situation often does not lead to rational action.

      Personally, I "withdrew" from SPEBSQSA years ago when the organization did not meet my needs. It was for a different reason entirely. I love the harmony. But I didn't care for the political correctness that banned great music from contest, or the "KIBber" mentality. I didn't drag an entire organization with me. I didn't try to pull other organizations away. I went off on my own and did what I thought I was called to do.

      I suppose that, if you don't like the way the Society is going, you have every right to break away from it. But to drag others along is folly. My own group, AM/FM, is a "VLQ" in the Washington, DC area that focuses on hymns, gospel and patriotic music. We're not an Alexandria Harmonizers type organization. We don't have contest ambitions. I'd love to improve our sound and skills, and I'd love to grow the group. But I don't think I have to incite rebellion among the faithful chord worshippers. I'd love to get some folks from the Society to join us. But I don't need to. I can continue doing my thing in my own way. When Old Timers Night rolls around at the local chapter (Hometowne, USA) I drop by with the guys and we share our harmony with them. We haven't had deserters in either direction, though this will be our third year going to OTN.

      I think that SPQBSQSA has been a very worthwhile organization. I'll continue to watch the evolution from the outside. But I appreciate it. I buy arrangements from the Harmony Marketplace like members do. I just pay a little more for the ones I purchase. The rest I get from www.singers.com or www.a-cappella.com, or I arrange myself. I'd love to be able to take advantage of things like Harmony College. I think I could do much better as a director if I did. I think the group would also do much better as singers if we all came just to sing. These are some real positive things the Society provides that I don't think are understood by the "revolutionaries". (Bad term really. They don't want to change things. They want them to stay the same. Maybe "stationaries". )

      I've been blessed by what I do. But It has nothing to do with my pulling away from SPEBSQSA. It has to do with following my own personal calling. I didn't like what SPQBSQSA was doing. I expressed my opinion. I was shot down. So I went off to do my own thing. But I still see much of SPEBSQSA as something of a model of where I'd like my own ministry to go. It isn't perfect. But it works.

      I expect the stationaries will find themselves overwhelmed by the full extent of what they are up against. They'll start out beating their chests and engulfed by new-found power of independence. But in a little while, they'll start seeing what they're up against. They have no assets, really. They have no source of income/funding. They don't have a song library. They don't have a training program. They really don't have anything. That's when the desertions will start. It will be one or two to start with. But before long, it will fall apart, leaving a harmonic vacuum in the place they now occupy, and will end up doing nothing more than destroy a chapter or two here or there and hurt the Society on the whole. They won't address the issues they have. They'll just be a bunch of bitter old men with nothing to show for themselves.

      I'd advise against the stationaries' course of action. Work within to solve your problems. If you can't, then individuals may choose to head out on their own. But to drag a whole chapter along with you is not productive.

      I can't believe I am actually agreeing with Show-Glow Joe. Something must be wrong. I'll have to check my blood pressure and get back with you.
      Sincerely,
      John W. Hosie III



      4b. Re: PIONEERS Meeting, etc.Posted by: "Joe De Felice" showglowjoe@... showglowjoeDate: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:26 pm ((PST)) Tom Neal et al,What a cowardly way to approach this situation. You have denigrated the entire SPEBSQSA organization, and I certainly hope someone from the Society responds to your unsupported claims and innuendos. It seems you are looking for sympathy with problems that face your own organization, by placing blame on where you have been associated for so many years. I for one cannot see it succeeding. Your withdrawal, I assume, is as an "affiliate" , which I had big problems with in any case. SPEBSQSA IS a Barbershop Harmony organization in and of itself with room for all forms, whether quartet or chorus. The chorus portion has been a major factor in new membership as well as retention since first contests were held in what... 1953? No chapters are discouraged from more quartet participation, but I am sure the argument will continue forever as to whether more should be done to ENcourage quartets. And whether or not the music is going in a less than true direction as BQPA seems to indicate, can be argued very well by the likes of the brilliant new Music Men/Arrangers of the most recent era. The music and musicality of SPEBSQSA have universally been improved over the years, and is in the same hands that it has always been found.... the judging community. Yes several changes have been made, and remade, with critique and review following by those who have more interest than "it is not the way of old". Others have gone back and forth on this through the years, but holding forth in a "our way or the hiway" as BQPA seems to want is anathema. There isn't any reason why we cannot get along together in what is now referred to as the BHS. Not much HARMONY in your Email invitation to break away from the fold. Joe De Felice
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    • John Witmer
      Gentlemen, Gentlemen, Please! In all the bad exchanges I ve witnessed on the Harmonet over the years, this has got to be the worst. Do you realize how much
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 29, 2007
        Gentlemen, Gentlemen, Please!

        In all the bad exchanges I've witnessed on the Harmonet over the
        years, this has got to be the
        worst. Do you realize how much damage you are ALL doing to barbershop
        harmony with this insane
        bickering? Each point of view has some strong points but the
        presentation has been absolutely
        atrocious. I've almost come to the point that I don't want anything
        to do with either side of
        this debate.

        Can't we allow each other the benefit of at least stating his position?

        It has become impossible to say,
        "Chordially",
        John Witmer


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      • EGPLEAD98@aol.com
        A-MEN MR WITMER, In just two days, it will be a new year 2008 !!! We have world problems, war, high gas prices, people out of work, people who can not even
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 29, 2007
          A-MEN MR WITMER,

          In just two days, it will be a new year
          2008 !!! We have world problems, war, high gas prices, people out of work,
          people who can not even afford their homes and cars.

          With these more important problems, we argue over this thing we call "A
          HOBBY" ???

          Everybody chill out, please take one day at a time !!! Please take time
          to enjoy what ever hobby you want to. Please do not argue this topic !!

          Let's just all get along :)

          ERIC G PHILLIPS
          _EGPLEAD98@..._ (mailto:EGPLEAD98@...)



          **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
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        • Montana Jack Fitzpatrick
          I hope that everyone takes the time to wade through Kinny-Ray s posting. It is one of the most exquisite I have read in terms of defining the divisions and
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 31, 2007
            I hope that everyone takes the time to "wade through" Kinny-Ray's posting. It is one of the most exquisite I have read in terms of defining the divisions and deviseness (and the reasons for them) that we have within the society.
            Most interesting---to me at least---was the idea that dissenters should be invited to become a part of the leadership of the organization. Rex Reeve correctly states that the IBOD has, essentially, become incestuous. We all know what happens from too much inbreeding. There was, indeed, a time when the individual districts actually picked their own nominee for the IBOD. In my own district, as an example, the retiring District President served two years as the Immediate Past President and then became the IBOD for that district. Now you must be approved by the IBOD to become a member.
            Step one to correct this aberrant situation would be to return to that old system. If the IBOD is concerned with keeping things as they are (and we can certainly understand why that would be), why don't they have the courage to invite some dissenters to join the Board.
            The second level major gripe I have encountered among the membership is "not having a voice that is heard." The folks down in Nashville insist that they are "listening" and that they are fielding myriad numbers of telephone calls and E-Mails from concerned and dissenting folks. That does not, let me repeat that, NOT amount to representation. That fact is evident by the number of changes that have been made that cause nothing but more griping. No one feels like they have a voice any more or, most importantly, that their years of service and dedication are respected or even recognized.
            I was around back in the 60's. In all of those earlier years, I never heard anger or dissent that approaches, in any way, the level that is manifest in any discussions today. Mostly folks were particularly upset when the judges failed to picked the "correct" winner in a contest.
            If Nashville and that IBOD is listening, I challenge them to listen to Kenny Ray. It is time to make a place for the dissenters *IN THE DECISION PROCESS*. It is very obvious that answering phone calls and E-mails is not getting the job done.
            Personally, I nominate Burt Szabo. He has plenty of experience at the Society level, understands the music problem and, above all else, is a fine gentleman.
            Thanks for listening Nashville, It would seem that the next order of business is for you to take up the challenge and act "for the good of the society".
            Montana Jack, keeping the faith and keeping it barbershop
            Montana Jack, keeping the faith and keeping it barbershopMontana Jack, keeping the faith and keeping it barbershopppppppppppplkj sk slkngfwptj eqtpi4 t giiiiig g eg g e el kg e g a gadg g adfg ag g IIiiiiiialjalt eqpt itpiwe ytpi4q t-bqt =4t=q4t q4 tkq3t pq34 tqp3t qtj q tet eqpjt epiltg e rjgergf sd

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          • John Hosie
            I ve had several exchanges with Tom Neal now, and I see all the notes on the subject flying through the Harmonet. What I have to say from all of this is that
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 1, 2008
              I've had several exchanges with Tom Neal now, and I see all the notes on the subject flying through the Harmonet. What I have to say from all of this is that 1) Tom's initial email on this subject was probably not appropriate for this forum; and 2) that Tom has a real gripe that did not come through in the email - at least, it was lost in it.

              The real gripe is centered around this: After having been courted into the BHS for years, and having turned them down several times, he finally agreed. Once he did agree, he was turned on and attacked. This was something he did not anticipate. I have seen some of the letters exchanged. I understand his reaction. It seems the BHS was deceptive in their treatment of him.

              I'm not going to get into what direction the BHS should go. Since I chose not to renew my membership years ago, I don't really have a right to an opinion. I'm also not going to suggest what the rank and file should do. That is a matter for each person to address on their own. But I will say that, since official correspondence from the BHS to Mr. Neal was so deceptive and later correspondence was so hostile and scalding, it seems that as a human being I'd be remiss if I did not suggest that he deserves an apology from the BHS for its treatment of him. There's a certain PhD in particular who was especially hostile. I won't mention him by name, but his first and last initials are the same as mine.

              That said, I've seen the level of hostility that comes out of this group at times. I've been an active participant and target at times, so I'm not suggesting I'm better than anyone else in this respect. But I do think that if this is a hobby that all of us love so much, we should be making more of an effort to find common ground and much less on attacking each others ideas. Any fool can attack even the best of ideas. If an idea is good, let it stand on its own merits.

              Sincerely,
              John Hosie (301) 509 1089
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