Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Question of Suitability of Arrangement

Expand Messages
  • i_sing_barbershop_music
    Barbershop music is a great american artform. But like any artform, it evolves or it dies. Orchestral music progressed from renassiance to romantic to 20th
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Barbershop music is a great american artform. But like any artform,
      it evolves or it dies. Orchestral music progressed from renassiance
      to romantic to 20th century and beyond. Rap has "evolved" from the
      likes of Run DMC, DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince to 50 Cent,
      Eminem, and Kanye West. (I realize this is not the kind of crowd I
      am addressing, but I am just trying to make a point.) You take any
      almost any musical artform and see that it has evolved over the
      years to what it is today.

      However, with change, then comes resistance. Controversy. Open
      retaliation. The audience detested Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" on
      opening night, but later became one of the world's most performed
      ballets. Many thought that Biz Markie was just making strange silly
      noises, but now is known as the grandfather of beatboxing and has a
      huge following. (especially across the pond) OC Times sang Beach Boy
      tunes (incredibly well) and it turned the barbershop world against
      each other. Is Surfer Girl barbershop? Does "Took the T-Bird Away"
      have enough 7th chords? These songs aren't old enough...etc.

      I realize that our Society is actively engaged in the preservation
      of our artform. But in order to survive, we must be actively
      involved in the evolution of this wonderful "hobby". (I say hobby
      with restraint as it is really an obsession for me and many others)
      I love singing "Keep the Whole world Singing" at the end of every
      chorus rehearsal. It really gets me hungry for tag singing and gives
      me a great feeling that lasts the drive home. It is great to throw
      down on a "My Wild Irish Rose" for singing valentines and just to
      have fun. But I also really enjoy singing (attempting)Timmy
      Waurick's part on Cruella Deville. Where can we find balance? Where
      can I (and you) turn for peace?

      I guess what I am really trying to say is the world outgrew the
      renassiance period. I don't want the "world" to continue to outgrow
      barbershop harmony. Most people think of four old guys in striped
      shirts and hats singing barbershop, and when they see OC Times,
      Vocal Spectrum, Realtime, or even the Westminster Chorus (to name a
      few) they are suprised and enthralled. They are turned on to our
      artform and want to be a part of it, even if it is just as a
      spectator.

      I understand that many of our older members have turned away from
      barbershop because of the continual distancing from what is
      regaurded as "traditional". But you can't tell me that you can sit
      down and listen to the Westminster Chorus sing "Their Hearts were
      full of Spring" and not get a little teary. Or that you can't enjoy
      Vocal Spectrum and Gas House Gang just ripping the head off of
      Scarbourough Fair. Regardless of what age you are. I hope to not
      offend too many by saying, "So what?" So what if there aren't 75 7th
      chords and the song the arrangement was based on was created in the
      80's, 90's, or heaven forbid, this decade? As long as it is sung
      well, barbershop is great...no matter how old the song (or
      performer) is.

      As a young person in barbershop, I promise that I will never stop
      singing "the old songs." Never. There is too much juicy goodness in
      them to do so. I would like to expand on that and try other things
      too. I would like to be able to talk over my chrousmates in a
      competition and not be penalized for it. (If we had dialogue) If I
      felt compelled to do a broadway musical for my quartet's or
      choruses's set for competition, then by golly, why not? The Sweet
      Adelines have huge numbers in many of their choruses. From what I
      see at their conventions, they are not bound by many of the rules
      that the BHS is. They seem to really have fun with it and take
      presentation to another level. Maybe we could actually learn
      something from our sisters in harmony and do the same.

      In closing, my brothers (and sisters), I love you. I love the
      society in which we are a part of. It is so great to sing with
      others at a high level to express ourselves. I am so honored to be a
      part of this great orginazation. It is a large part of
      what "defines" me. This message was not meant to offend, but rather
      just to offer a different view. I hope it will be recieved as such.

      Keep the whole world singing!

      Adam Haggart
      Saltaires Show Chorus Lead
      Wasatch Front Y.I.H Chairman
      Salt Lake City, UT
    • Joe Johnson
      Bravo!!! Thanks, Adam, for expressing so eloquently what so many of us feel. i_sing_barbershop_music wrote: Barbershop music is a great
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Bravo!!! Thanks, Adam, for expressing so eloquently what so many of us feel.


        i_sing_barbershop_music <adamhaggart@...> wrote:

        Barbershop music is a great american artform. But like any artform,
        it evolves or it dies. Orchestral music progressed from renassiance
        to romantic to 20th century and beyond. Rap has "evolved" from the
        likes of Run DMC, DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince to 50 Cent,
        Eminem, and Kanye West. (I realize this is not the kind of crowd I
        am addressing, but I am just trying to make a point.) You take any
        almost any musical artform and see that it has evolved over the
        years to what it is today.

        However, with change, then comes resistance. Controversy. Open
        retaliation. The audience detested Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" on
        opening night, but later became one of the world's most performed
        ballets. Many thought that Biz Markie was just making strange silly
        noises, but now is known as the grandfather of beatboxing and has a
        huge following. (especially across the pond) OC Times sang Beach Boy
        tunes (incredibly well) and it turned the barbershop world against
        each other. Is Surfer Girl barbershop? Does "Took the T-Bird Away"
        have enough 7th chords? These songs aren't old enough...etc.

        I realize that our Society is actively engaged in the preservation
        of our artform. But in order to survive, we must be actively
        involved in the evolution of this wonderful "hobby". (I say hobby
        with restraint as it is really an obsession for me and many others)
        I love singing "Keep the Whole world Singing" at the end of every
        chorus rehearsal. It really gets me hungry for tag singing and gives
        me a great feeling that lasts the drive home. It is great to throw
        down on a "My Wild Irish Rose" for singing valentines and just to
        have fun. But I also really enjoy singing (attempting)Timmy
        Waurick's part on Cruella Deville. Where can we find balance? Where
        can I (and you) turn for peace?

        I guess what I am really trying to say is the world outgrew the
        renassiance period. I don't want the "world" to continue to outgrow
        barbershop harmony. Most people think of four old guys in striped
        shirts and hats singing barbershop, and when they see OC Times,
        Vocal Spectrum, Realtime, or even the Westminster Chorus (to name a
        few) they are suprised and enthralled. They are turned on to our
        artform and want to be a part of it, even if it is just as a
        spectator.

        I understand that many of our older members have turned away from
        barbershop because of the continual distancing from what is
        regaurded as "traditional". But you can't tell me that you can sit
        down and listen to the Westminster Chorus sing "Their Hearts were
        full of Spring" and not get a little teary. Or that you can't enjoy
        Vocal Spectrum and Gas House Gang just ripping the head off of
        Scarbourough Fair. Regardless of what age you are. I hope to not
        offend too many by saying, "So what?" So what if there aren't 75 7th
        chords and the song the arrangement was based on was created in the
        80's, 90's, or heaven forbid, this decade? As long as it is sung
        well, barbershop is great...no matter how old the song (or
        performer) is.

        As a young person in barbershop, I promise that I will never stop
        singing "the old songs." Never. There is too much juicy goodness in
        them to do so. I would like to expand on that and try other things
        too. I would like to be able to talk over my chrousmates in a
        competition and not be penalized for it. (If we had dialogue) If I
        felt compelled to do a broadway musical for my quartet's or
        choruses's set for competition, then by golly, why not? The Sweet
        Adelines have huge numbers in many of their choruses. From what I
        see at their conventions, they are not bound by many of the rules
        that the BHS is. They seem to really have fun with it and take
        presentation to another level. Maybe we could actually learn
        something from our sisters in harmony and do the same.

        In closing, my brothers (and sisters), I love you. I love the
        society in which we are a part of. It is so great to sing with
        others at a high level to express ourselves. I am so honored to be a
        part of this great orginazation. It is a large part of
        what "defines" me. This message was not meant to offend, but rather
        just to offer a different view. I hope it will be recieved as such.

        Keep the whole world singing!

        Adam Haggart
        Saltaires Show Chorus Lead
        Wasatch Front Y.I.H Chairman
        Salt Lake City, UT






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ausleadjohn
        Hi, all. Yet again we move into a discussion about preservation and evolution. I appreciate everyone s desire to enjoy barbershop the way he or she likes it.
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi, all.

          Yet again we move into a discussion about preservation and evolution.

          I appreciate everyone's desire to enjoy barbershop the way he or she
          likes it. Therefore I think of barbershop as a big melting pot. The
          old music and traditions are all in the pot. Meanwhile new ideas are
          being added all the time. Some mix in well and are kept; others
          don't and are removed or altered.

          This is how barbershop began. It was very much improvised a cappella
          harmony singing. This experimental element has always been an
          integral part of barbershop since the artform first found a footing.

          I also believe barbershop is self-policing.

          Barbershop, like any form of music, evolves and changes and grows.
          New things are added to the melting pot. This happens regardless of
          how hard we try to control it, codify it, own it, stop it from
          evolving or just preserve it as it was.

          There is no need to draw a line in the sand so often.


          As for some things Jack Martin said...


          << Are we singers, or orators? >>

          This one I have to agree with. I applaud new ideas, but it ain't
          possible to speak in four-part harmony. A few comments in the middle
          of a song that enhance the entertainment or theme are fine with me,
          but speaking to set up a song... well, we're judged on the impact of
          the song and the singing and the presentation of those. Contest is
          about who does these things best, not who talks best.


          << Ya can't change historic events to suit your taste in music as
          time goes on. In time you evolve into something that no longer
          represents "what was!" ... I find it very disturbing that many of
          our Barbershoppers, young and old alike, no longer appreciate what
          barbershop was in the beginning, and how it became better defined as
          we matured into the 1950-1970 time frame. There was no evolution
          there! >>

          Hmmm... The barbershop leaders of the 1950-1970 time frame were good
          people and did a lot of great things. However, no leadership is
          perfect in any period of history. Looking at the history of
          barbershop from its very beginnings, through the formation of the
          Society, through the music sung in the 1940s, through the 1950-70
          era, through to today... when one sees the whole picture, innovation
          and experimentation and improvization and evolution have been
          hallmarks of barbershop music. In the 1950-70 era many great things
          were done and many great quartets sang, but the "maturing" also
          involved taking away chances to be innovative. The style was greatly
          restricted and constrained and made extraordinarily conservative.
          And like it or not, that was a form of evolution.

          There has always been evolution. The Society in the 1950s was very
          different from the Society in 1940. The singing styles evolved
          through the '40s, '50s and '60s. Just listen to the recordings.
          Maybe some people turn a blind eye.


          << It has turned off many of our "Pioneers of the Hobby" to the tune
          of several thousand past members. >>

          I thank the Pioneers for all they have done over many years. But
          there are new pioneers now. The torch gets passed on. Barbershop
          has always been about pioneering. That continues today. Some don't
          like what they hear, but they are focusing on only a few songs
          instead of seeing the entire melting pot. The old songs are still
          there and always will be. At some point in history, those old songs
          were new and they were added to the melting pot.

          Let the pioneering continue. It has always happened and always
          will. But, as I said, the barbershop world is self-policing. If it
          goes too far one way, the membership will let everyone know.
          However, it could be done more effectively, inclusively and
          harmoniously without drawing lines in the sand.

          I submit that it is better to share than to restrict. No one owns
          barbershop. And there is room for all, if ALL of us are willing.


          Cheers,
          John.
          www.realtimequartet.com
        • Michael Bell
          Wrong. Barbershop music is a style of music . In much the same way as renaissance madrigals are a style of music. In the last decade groups specializing
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Wrong.

            Barbershop music is a style of music . In much the same way as renaissance madrigals are
            a style of music. In the last decade groups specializing Gregorian Chant (another a-
            cappella style) have sold millions of CD's. Did these sales result from evolution of the
            chant style? Did the world outgrow Chant or Medieval polyphony or Baroque Cantatas? No,
            a sizable audience still exists for these styles. This audience is not as big as the one for
            rap, but it is an audience numbering in the millions.

            The world will forget barbershop when we forget barbershop and obscure it's beauty with
            "evolutionary" changes. Styles fall in and out of favor. Don't try to present another
            argument for "evolve or die" based upon your own bias. It doesn't hold up to examination
            in the light of logical, informed opinion. If you've got data showing that we can preserve
            the barbershop style by including simplistic pop tunes by the Beach Boys or any others,
            let's see it.

            Mike Bell

            --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "i_sing_barbershop_music" <adamhaggart@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Barbershop music is a great american artform. But like any artform,
            > it evolves or it dies. Orchestral music progressed from renassiance
            > to romantic to 20th century and beyond. Rap has "evolved" from the
            > likes of Run DMC, DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince to 50 Cent,
            > Eminem, and Kanye West. (I realize this is not the kind of crowd I
            > am addressing, but I am just trying to make a point.) You take any
            > almost any musical artform and see that it has evolved over the
            > years to what it is today.
            >
            > However, with change, then comes resistance. Controversy. Open
            > retaliation. The audience detested Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" on
            > opening night, but later became one of the world's most performed
            > ballets. Many thought that Biz Markie was just making strange silly
            > noises, but now is known as the grandfather of beatboxing and has a
            > huge following. (especially across the pond) OC Times sang Beach Boy
            > tunes (incredibly well) and it turned the barbershop world against
            > each other. Is Surfer Girl barbershop? Does "Took the T-Bird Away"
            > have enough 7th chords? These songs aren't old enough...etc.
            >
            > I realize that our Society is actively engaged in the preservation
            > of our artform. But in order to survive, we must be actively
            > involved in the evolution of this wonderful "hobby". (I say hobby
            > with restraint as it is really an obsession for me and many others)
            > I love singing "Keep the Whole world Singing" at the end of every
            > chorus rehearsal. It really gets me hungry for tag singing and gives
            > me a great feeling that lasts the drive home. It is great to throw
            > down on a "My Wild Irish Rose" for singing valentines and just to
            > have fun. But I also really enjoy singing (attempting)Timmy
            > Waurick's part on Cruella Deville. Where can we find balance? Where
            > can I (and you) turn for peace?
            >
            > I guess what I am really trying to say is the world outgrew the
            > renassiance period. I don't want the "world" to continue to outgrow
            > barbershop harmony. Most people think of four old guys in striped
            > shirts and hats singing barbershop, and when they see OC Times,
            > Vocal Spectrum, Realtime, or even the Westminster Chorus (to name a
            > few) they are suprised and enthralled. They are turned on to our
            > artform and want to be a part of it, even if it is just as a
            > spectator.
            >
            > I understand that many of our older members have turned away from
            > barbershop because of the continual distancing from what is
            > regaurded as "traditional". But you can't tell me that you can sit
            > down and listen to the Westminster Chorus sing "Their Hearts were
            > full of Spring" and not get a little teary. Or that you can't enjoy
            > Vocal Spectrum and Gas House Gang just ripping the head off of
            > Scarbourough Fair. Regardless of what age you are. I hope to not
            > offend too many by saying, "So what?" So what if there aren't 75 7th
            > chords and the song the arrangement was based on was created in the
            > 80's, 90's, or heaven forbid, this decade? As long as it is sung
            > well, barbershop is great...no matter how old the song (or
            > performer) is.
            >
            > As a young person in barbershop, I promise that I will never stop
            > singing "the old songs." Never. There is too much juicy goodness in
            > them to do so. I would like to expand on that and try other things
            > too. I would like to be able to talk over my chrousmates in a
            > competition and not be penalized for it. (If we had dialogue) If I
            > felt compelled to do a broadway musical for my quartet's or
            > choruses's set for competition, then by golly, why not? The Sweet
            > Adelines have huge numbers in many of their choruses. From what I
            > see at their conventions, they are not bound by many of the rules
            > that the BHS is. They seem to really have fun with it and take
            > presentation to another level. Maybe we could actually learn
            > something from our sisters in harmony and do the same.
            >
            > In closing, my brothers (and sisters), I love you. I love the
            > society in which we are a part of. It is so great to sing with
            > others at a high level to express ourselves. I am so honored to be a
            > part of this great orginazation. It is a large part of
            > what "defines" me. This message was not meant to offend, but rather
            > just to offer a different view. I hope it will be recieved as such.
            >
            > Keep the whole world singing!
            >
            > Adam Haggart
            > Saltaires Show Chorus Lead
            > Wasatch Front Y.I.H Chairman
            > Salt Lake City, UT
            >
          • ausleadjohn
            Well, this approach and attitude is sure to have new members showing up in droves! Who could resist? Cue what I said in my last post about no need to draw
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Well, this approach and attitude is sure to have new members showing
              up in droves! Who could resist?

              Cue what I said in my last post about no need to draw lines in the
              sand... try inclusion and sharing, instead of exclusion and division.

              I have an inkling about which way may be more successful for the
              future.

              John.


              --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Bell" <mike@...> wrote:
              >
              > Wrong.
              >
              > Barbershop music is a style of music . In much the same way as
              renaissance madrigals are
              > a style of music. In the last decade groups specializing Gregorian
              Chant (another a-
              > cappella style) have sold millions of CD's. Did these sales result
              from evolution of the
              > chant style? Did the world outgrow Chant or Medieval polyphony or
              Baroque Cantatas? No,
              > a sizable audience still exists for these styles. This audience is
              not as big as the one for
              > rap, but it is an audience numbering in the millions.
              >
              > The world will forget barbershop when we forget barbershop and
              obscure it's beauty with
              > "evolutionary" changes. Styles fall in and out of favor. Don't try
              to present another
              > argument for "evolve or die" based upon your own bias. It doesn't
              hold up to examination
              > in the light of logical, informed opinion. If you've got data
              showing that we can preserve
              > the barbershop style by including simplistic pop tunes by the Beach
              Boys or any others,
              > let's see it.
              >
              > Mike Bell
              >
            • i_sing_barbershop_music
              Yes, it is true that the Benedictine monks of Santo Domingo de Silos did have a triple platinum album in the early to mid ninteies, followed by a less
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Yes, it is true that the Benedictine monks of Santo Domingo de Silos
                did have a triple platinum album in the early to mid ninteies,
                followed by a less succsessful sequel. But in the world of gregorian
                chants or a cappella music in general, it is quite the anomaly.
                Also, the chants were evolutionary compared to chants in the "old
                days", but that is neither here nor there.

                Really, if you want to get more people interested in barbershop and
                keep our hobby alive, the approach is simple. Sing songs that people
                want to hear and sing them well. We have a hobby that is AWESOME and
                should be much more marketable then it is, and the "four guys in
                striped shirts and hats" was good back in the day, but doesn't work
                as well anymore. I like the fact the the society has become much
                more welcoming towards younger members, because for the longest
                time, they weren't. At least that is my perception.

                This is ALL just a matter of perception. Everything changes over
                time, and some are just more resistent to change than others.

                Adam Haggart


                --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Bell" <mike@...> wrote:
                >
                > Wrong.
                >
                > Barbershop music is a style of music . In much the same way as
                renaissance madrigals are
                > a style of music. In the last decade groups specializing Gregorian
                Chant (another a-
                > cappella style) have sold millions of CD's. Did these sales result
                from evolution of the
                > chant style? Did the world outgrow Chant or Medieval polyphony or
                Baroque Cantatas? No,
                > a sizable audience still exists for these styles. This audience is
                not as big as the one for
                > rap, but it is an audience numbering in the millions.
                >
                > The world will forget barbershop when we forget barbershop and
                obscure it's beauty with
                > "evolutionary" changes. Styles fall in and out of favor. Don't try
                to present another
                > argument for "evolve or die" based upon your own bias. It doesn't
                hold up to examination
                > in the light of logical, informed opinion. If you've got data
                showing that we can preserve
                > the barbershop style by including simplistic pop tunes by the
                Beach Boys or any others,
                > let's see it.
                >
                > Mike Bell
                >
                > --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "i_sing_barbershop_music"
                <adamhaggart@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Barbershop music is a great american artform. But like any
                artform,
                > > it evolves or it dies. Orchestral music progressed from
                renassiance
                > > to romantic to 20th century and beyond. Rap has "evolved" from
                the
                > > likes of Run DMC, DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince to 50 Cent,
                > > Eminem, and Kanye West. (I realize this is not the kind of crowd
                I
                > > am addressing, but I am just trying to make a point.) You take
                any
                > > almost any musical artform and see that it has evolved over the
                > > years to what it is today.
                > >
                > > However, with change, then comes resistance. Controversy. Open
                > > retaliation. The audience detested Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring"
                on
                > > opening night, but later became one of the world's most
                performed
                > > ballets. Many thought that Biz Markie was just making strange
                silly
                > > noises, but now is known as the grandfather of beatboxing and
                has a
                > > huge following. (especially across the pond) OC Times sang Beach
                Boy
                > > tunes (incredibly well) and it turned the barbershop world
                against
                > > each other. Is Surfer Girl barbershop? Does "Took the T-Bird
                Away"
                > > have enough 7th chords? These songs aren't old enough...etc.
                > >
                > > I realize that our Society is actively engaged in the
                preservation
                > > of our artform. But in order to survive, we must be actively
                > > involved in the evolution of this wonderful "hobby". (I say
                hobby
                > > with restraint as it is really an obsession for me and many
                others)
                > > I love singing "Keep the Whole world Singing" at the end of
                every
                > > chorus rehearsal. It really gets me hungry for tag singing and
                gives
                > > me a great feeling that lasts the drive home. It is great to
                throw
                > > down on a "My Wild Irish Rose" for singing valentines and just
                to
                > > have fun. But I also really enjoy singing (attempting)Timmy
                > > Waurick's part on Cruella Deville. Where can we find balance?
                Where
                > > can I (and you) turn for peace?
                > >
                > > I guess what I am really trying to say is the world outgrew the
                > > renassiance period. I don't want the "world" to continue to
                outgrow
                > > barbershop harmony. Most people think of four old guys in
                striped
                > > shirts and hats singing barbershop, and when they see OC Times,
                > > Vocal Spectrum, Realtime, or even the Westminster Chorus (to
                name a
                > > few) they are suprised and enthralled. They are turned on to our
                > > artform and want to be a part of it, even if it is just as a
                > > spectator.
                > >
                > > I understand that many of our older members have turned away
                from
                > > barbershop because of the continual distancing from what is
                > > regaurded as "traditional". But you can't tell me that you can
                sit
                > > down and listen to the Westminster Chorus sing "Their Hearts
                were
                > > full of Spring" and not get a little teary. Or that you can't
                enjoy
                > > Vocal Spectrum and Gas House Gang just ripping the head off of
                > > Scarbourough Fair. Regardless of what age you are. I hope to not
                > > offend too many by saying, "So what?" So what if there aren't 75
                7th
                > > chords and the song the arrangement was based on was created in
                the
                > > 80's, 90's, or heaven forbid, this decade? As long as it is sung
                > > well, barbershop is great...no matter how old the song (or
                > > performer) is.
                > >
                > > As a young person in barbershop, I promise that I will never
                stop
                > > singing "the old songs." Never. There is too much juicy goodness
                in
                > > them to do so. I would like to expand on that and try other
                things
                > > too. I would like to be able to talk over my chrousmates in a
                > > competition and not be penalized for it. (If we had dialogue) If
                I
                > > felt compelled to do a broadway musical for my quartet's or
                > > choruses's set for competition, then by golly, why not? The
                Sweet
                > > Adelines have huge numbers in many of their choruses. From what
                I
                > > see at their conventions, they are not bound by many of the
                rules
                > > that the BHS is. They seem to really have fun with it and take
                > > presentation to another level. Maybe we could actually learn
                > > something from our sisters in harmony and do the same.
                > >
                > > In closing, my brothers (and sisters), I love you. I love the
                > > society in which we are a part of. It is so great to sing with
                > > others at a high level to express ourselves. I am so honored to
                be a
                > > part of this great orginazation. It is a large part of
                > > what "defines" me. This message was not meant to offend, but
                rather
                > > just to offer a different view. I hope it will be recieved as
                such.
                > >
                > > Keep the whole world singing!
                > >
                > > Adam Haggart
                > > Saltaires Show Chorus Lead
                > > Wasatch Front Y.I.H Chairman
                > > Salt Lake City, UT
                > >
                >
              • Lauren House
                Well stated, excellent post on the topic! Harmoniously, in full agreement. Lauren House Reno, Nevada _____ From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Well stated, excellent post on the topic!

                  Harmoniously, in full agreement.

                  Lauren House
                  Reno, Nevada

                  _____

                  From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  i_sing_barbershop_music
                  Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:45 AM
                  To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [bbshop] Re: Question of Suitability of Arrangement



                  Barbershop music is a great american artform. But like any artform,
                  it evolves or it dies. Orchestral music progressed from renassiance
                  to romantic to 20th century and beyond. Rap has "evolved" from the
                  likes of Run DMC, DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince to 50 Cent,
                  Eminem, and Kanye West. (I realize this is not the kind of crowd I
                  am addressing, but I am just trying to make a point.) You take any
                  almost any musical artform and see that it has evolved over the
                  years to what it is today.

                  However, with change, then comes resistance. Controversy. Open
                  retaliation. The audience detested Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" on
                  opening night, but later became one of the world's most performed
                  ballets. Many thought that Biz Markie was just making strange silly
                  noises, but now is known as the grandfather of beatboxing and has a
                  huge following. (especially across the pond) OC Times sang Beach Boy
                  tunes (incredibly well) and it turned the barbershop world against
                  each other. Is Surfer Girl barbershop? Does "Took the T-Bird Away"
                  have enough 7th chords? These songs aren't old enough...etc.

                  I realize that our Society is actively engaged in the preservation
                  of our artform. But in order to survive, we must be actively
                  involved in the evolution of this wonderful "hobby". (I say hobby
                  with restraint as it is really an obsession for me and many others)
                  I love singing "Keep the Whole world Singing" at the end of every
                  chorus rehearsal. It really gets me hungry for tag singing and gives
                  me a great feeling that lasts the drive home. It is great to throw
                  down on a "My Wild Irish Rose" for singing valentines and just to
                  have fun. But I also really enjoy singing (attempting)Timmy
                  Waurick's part on Cruella Deville. Where can we find balance? Where
                  can I (and you) turn for peace?

                  I guess what I am really trying to say is the world outgrew the
                  renassiance period. I don't want the "world" to continue to outgrow
                  barbershop harmony. Most people think of four old guys in striped
                  shirts and hats singing barbershop, and when they see OC Times,
                  Vocal Spectrum, Realtime, or even the Westminster Chorus (to name a
                  few) they are suprised and enthralled. They are turned on to our
                  artform and want to be a part of it, even if it is just as a
                  spectator.

                  I understand that many of our older members have turned away from
                  barbershop because of the continual distancing from what is
                  regaurded as "traditional". But you can't tell me that you can sit
                  down and listen to the Westminster Chorus sing "Their Hearts were
                  full of Spring" and not get a little teary. Or that you can't enjoy
                  Vocal Spectrum and Gas House Gang just ripping the head off of
                  Scarbourough Fair. Regardless of what age you are. I hope to not
                  offend too many by saying, "So what?" So what if there aren't 75 7th
                  chords and the song the arrangement was based on was created in the
                  80's, 90's, or heaven forbid, this decade? As long as it is sung
                  well, barbershop is great...no matter how old the song (or
                  performer) is.

                  As a young person in barbershop, I promise that I will never stop
                  singing "the old songs." Never. There is too much juicy goodness in
                  them to do so. I would like to expand on that and try other things
                  too. I would like to be able to talk over my chrousmates in a
                  competition and not be penalized for it. (If we had dialogue) If I
                  felt compelled to do a broadway musical for my quartet's or
                  choruses's set for competition, then by golly, why not? The Sweet
                  Adelines have huge numbers in many of their choruses. From what I
                  see at their conventions, they are not bound by many of the rules
                  that the BHS is. They seem to really have fun with it and take
                  presentation to another level. Maybe we could actually learn
                  something from our sisters in harmony and do the same.

                  In closing, my brothers (and sisters), I love you. I love the
                  society in which we are a part of. It is so great to sing with
                  others at a high level to express ourselves. I am so honored to be a
                  part of this great orginazation. It is a large part of
                  what "defines" me. This message was not meant to offend, but rather
                  just to offer a different view. I hope it will be recieved as such.

                  Keep the whole world singing!

                  Adam Haggart
                  Saltaires Show Chorus Lead
                  Wasatch Front Y.I.H Chairman
                  Salt Lake City, UT



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Michael Bell
                  John, I was not advocating an approach to membership or retention. I was questioning a hypothesis ( evolve or die ) that many seem to view as axiomatic. That
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    John,

                    I was not advocating an approach to membership or retention. I was questioning a
                    hypothesis ("evolve or die") that many seem to view as axiomatic. That hypothesis doesn't
                    make sense to me. If we were a vocal jazz organization with shrinking membership would
                    we assume that by including gangsta rap, or madrigals, or barbershop we could reverse
                    the trend?

                    I'm not drawing lines in the sand. I'm not excluding anyone. I'm asking that we take a
                    more thoughtful look at what we are preserving, and how best to accomplish our shared
                    goal.

                    Mike Bell



                    --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "ausleadjohn" <newelljs@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Well, this approach and attitude is sure to have new members showing
                    > up in droves! Who could resist?
                    >
                    > Cue what I said in my last post about no need to draw lines in the
                    > sand... try inclusion and sharing, instead of exclusion and division.
                    >
                    > I have an inkling about which way may be more successful for the
                    > future.
                    >
                    > John.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Bell" <mike@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Wrong.
                    > >
                    > > Barbershop music is a style of music . In much the same way as
                    > renaissance madrigals are
                    > > a style of music. In the last decade groups specializing Gregorian
                    > Chant (another a-
                    > > cappella style) have sold millions of CD's. Did these sales result
                    > from evolution of the
                    > > chant style? Did the world outgrow Chant or Medieval polyphony or
                    > Baroque Cantatas? No,
                    > > a sizable audience still exists for these styles. This audience is
                    > not as big as the one for
                    > > rap, but it is an audience numbering in the millions.
                    > >
                    > > The world will forget barbershop when we forget barbershop and
                    > obscure it's beauty with
                    > > "evolutionary" changes. Styles fall in and out of favor. Don't try
                    > to present another
                    > > argument for "evolve or die" based upon your own bias. It doesn't
                    > hold up to examination
                    > > in the light of logical, informed opinion. If you've got data
                    > showing that we can preserve
                    > > the barbershop style by including simplistic pop tunes by the Beach
                    > Boys or any others,
                    > > let's see it.
                    > >
                    > > Mike Bell
                    > >
                    >
                  • super mario
                    Mike, If you have data showing that we CAN T preserve the barbershop style by including simplistic pop tunes by the Beach Boys or any others, let s see it.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Mike,
                      If you have data showing that we CAN'T preserve the barbershop style by including "simplistic" pop tunes by the Beach Boys or any others, let's see it. Logical fallacies work both ways, not just where you want them to.

                      Also, does anyone know of anyone advocating the elimination of the old songs? Didn't think so.

                      Mario Hernandez-Gerety
                      Bass - Vertigo
                      2007 RMD 3rd Place Quartet
                      2007 RMD Novice Quartet Champions

                      PS As a member of the Westminster Chapter, I have personally seen OC Times ring the snot out of more old songs than you can shake a stick at. These guys can ring anything and ring it anywhere. They love the old songs and respect the roots of our style more than most people in this society. Just because they sing some new stuff and push the envelope doesn't mean they don't appreciate where it all came from.


                      To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                      From: mike@...
                      Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 19:23:49 +0000
                      Subject: [bbshop] Re: Question of Suitability of Arrangement




















                      Wrong.



                      Barbershop music is a style of music . In much the same way as renaissance madrigals are

                      a style of music. In the last decade groups specializing Gregorian Chant (another a-

                      cappella style) have sold millions of CD's. Did these sales result from evolution of the

                      chant style? Did the world outgrow Chant or Medieval polyphony or Baroque Cantatas? No,

                      a sizable audience still exists for these styles. This audience is not as big as the one for

                      rap, but it is an audience numbering in the millions.



                      The world will forget barbershop when we forget barbershop and obscure it's beauty with

                      "evolutionary" changes. Styles fall in and out of favor. Don't try to present another

                      argument for "evolve or die" based upon your own bias. It doesn't hold up to examination

                      in the light of logical, informed opinion. If you've got data showing that we can preserve

                      the barbershop style by including simplistic pop tunes by the Beach Boys or any others,

                      let's see it.



























                      _________________________________________________________________
                      Climb to the top of the charts!  Play Star Shuffle:  the word scramble challenge with star power.
                      http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Michael Bell
                      Since Mario is bringing specific groups into this discussion about style, I ve answered his email privately. MB ... simplistic pop tunes by the Beach Boys or
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Since Mario is bringing specific groups into this discussion about
                        style, I've answered his email privately.

                        MB

                        --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, super mario <supermario91@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Mike,
                        > If you have data showing that we CAN'T preserve the barbershop style by including
                        "simplistic" pop tunes by the Beach Boys or any others, let's see it. Logical fallacies work
                        both ways, not just where you want them to.
                        >
                        > Also, does anyone know of anyone advocating the elimination of the old songs? Didn't
                        think so.
                        >
                        > Mario Hernandez-Gerety
                        > Bass - Vertigo
                        > 2007 RMD 3rd Place Quartet
                        > 2007 RMD Novice Quartet Champions
                        >
                        > PS As a member of the Westminster Chapter, I have personally seen OC Times ring the
                        snot out of more old songs than you can shake a stick at. These guys can ring anything
                        and ring it anywhere. They love the old songs and respect the roots of our style more
                        than most people in this society. Just because they sing some new stuff and push the
                        envelope doesn't mean they don't appreciate where it all came from.
                        >
                        >
                        > To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                        > From: mike@...
                        > Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 19:23:49 +0000
                        > Subject: [bbshop] Re: Question of Suitability of Arrangement
                      • Shelley Herman
                        ... You re right about OC Times. They sing everything well. What a lot of people have a problem with is: Singing unbarbershop (i.e. Beach boys) in CONTEST.
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > PS As a member of the Westminster Chapter, I have personally seen OC Times
                          > ring the snot out of more old songs than you can shake a stick at. These guys
                          > can ring anything and ring it anywhere. They love the old songs and respect
                          > the roots of our style more than most people in this society. Just because
                          > they sing some new stuff and push the envelope doesn't mean they don't
                          > appreciate where it all came from.


                          You're right about OC Times. They sing everything well. What a lot of
                          people have a problem with is: Singing unbarbershop (i.e. Beach boys) in
                          CONTEST.

                          Sing what you want on shows, sing barbershop in CONTEST!

                          Shelley Herman
                        • MARQUIS652@aol.com
                          Adam, Thanks for your contributions to this list. I too, started singing barbershop when I was young. (14 years old)... I was on the stage crrew at my high
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Adam,

                            Thanks for your contributions to this list.

                            I too, started singing barbershop when I was young. (14 years old)...
                            I was on the stage crrew at my high school, heard the local chapter
                            and was hooked by THE SOUND. I only knew a couple of the songs.
                            THE SOUND is what got me excited.

                            I get excited by O.C.Times, Max Q, GHG, Interstate Rivals and many, many
                            others.
                            Not so much for what they sing, but for how they sing. THE SOUND.

                            Now that I am older and have my own kids who are singing barbershop,
                            I decided to ask them what they like most about barbershop. You know
                            what, it turns out to be THE SOUND, the fellowship and the chance to perform
                            and entertain and to make people happy with our music.

                            Keep singing harmony, I hope in the Barbershop style.

                            Jay Hawkins
                            Bass - Four Aces

                            and a few other groups and a PROUD Member
                            of The Southern Gateway Chorus of Cincinnati.



                            ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • willhamblet
                            Well, here s something a bit different: an old f*** who isn t a Kibber. I ve belonged to the Society for over 35 years. I initially joined because I heard
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 2, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Well, here's something a bit different: an old f*** who isn't a
                              Kibber. I've belonged to the Society for over 35 years. I initially
                              joined because I heard The Beach Boys singing (a cappella) "Their
                              Hearts Were Full of Spring." I didn't know they had ripped it off
                              the Dick Reynolds arrangement for the Four Freshman. I just
                              thought, "Boy, would I love to do something like that." At the time,
                              the only thing that was "something like that" was SPEBSQSA. The
                              first Barbershop album I ever purchased was The Sidewinders… and my
                              favorite cut was Buzz Haeger's arrangement of "The Way You Look
                              Tonight" (definitely not something that would have passed the
                              Arrangement category in those days). I know there were a lot of my
                              contemporaries (early 70's) who enjoyed The Hi-Lo's much more than
                              The Buffalo Bills and my current all-time favorite BHS quartets
                              would probably be Keepsake, Gas House Gang & Realtime (none of them
                              particularly "oldies but goodies").

                              At any rate, I definitely prefer Barbershop (musically) NOW as
                              opposed to when I joined. On the other hand, I didn't care much for
                              what Aaron Dale did to The Beach Boys songs… but then I consider
                              Brian Wilson sacrosanct. And that's my problem!!!

                              Will
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.