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Re: [bbshop] Re: Recent judging questions

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  • Montana Jack Fitzpatrick
    Sort of amazing isn t it that the MUS category is now deducting points for stylistic deviations. We haven t seen anything like that since-----well-----the
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 1, 2007
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      Sort of amazing isn't it that the MUS category is now deducting points for stylistic deviations. We haven't seen anything like that since-----well-----the arrangement category that had it's unfortunate demise about 15 years ago.
      In addition to deducting points for deviations, they also added plus points for innovations. However, since the category was destroyed and "re-written" (allowing almost every song ever written to "become" barbershop), everything is an innovation---so---no need for that at all.
      Montana Jack, keeping the faith and keeping it barbershop



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Rich Hasty
      Now that s a healthy perspective. Rich Deductor of points for style infractions for seven years. I just never had to explain every point that was subtracted
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1, 2007
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        Now that's a healthy perspective.

        Rich

        Deductor of points for style infractions for seven years. I just never
        had to explain every point that was subtracted from a holistic score. I
        want to judge the impact of music without having to discourage the
        performer.


        --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Montana Jack Fitzpatrick" <mtjack@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Sort of amazing isn't it that the MUS category is now deducting
        points for stylistic deviations. We haven't seen anything like that
        since-----well-----the arrangement category that had it's unfortunate
        demise about 15 years ago.
        > In addition to deducting points for deviations, they also added plus
        points for innovations. However, since the category was destroyed
        and "re-written" (allowing almost every song ever written to "become"
        barbershop), everything is an innovation---so---no need for that at all.
        > Montana Jack, keeping the faith and keeping it barbershop
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Dave Duncan
        Actually, to perhaps nit-pick a little, I d like to re-visit your statements here. The mere fact that the judges had to huddle indicates a real grey area.
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 2, 2007
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          Actually, to perhaps nit-pick a little, I'd like to re-visit your statements
          here.



          "The mere fact that the judges had to huddle indicates a real grey area.
          When contestants skate near that area they take a risk." Yup. Couldn't
          have said it any better. With great risk comes the possibility of great
          reward OR great disappointment. "Of course, if their performance is
          nowhere near barbershop, the judges have to decide under the new guidelines
          what is acceptable." What is Barbershop and what is acceptable are two
          entirely different issues. A performance can be completely Barbershop and
          still completely UNACCEPTABLE.





          By saying "I understand that the SG set was fantabulous and the audience
          loved it. I understand all the hard work that went into it and trying to
          make sure it would clear the judges guidelines." I have to infer that you
          were indeed not present at the performance, but thanks for recognizing what
          went into creating it. It did indeed "clear" numerous Certified Judges
          guidelines long before it ever hit the stage.



          You continue on to say "Well, it didn't work" If you weren't there, how
          would you know ? If you were there, you would know that it DID work for the
          audience, EXACTLY as it was planned. " and I, for one, can't fault the
          judges for huddling and ultimately deciding it wasn't barbershop," I'm glad
          you assign no fault to the Judges here. The confusion resulted from the
          presentation not being in the "typical" Barbershop contest format of
          "applause-song-applause-song-applause" and that resulted in a discussion to
          determine if one or two songs had been sung. As for the huddle, at no time
          did any Judge ever decide or say that it was not Barbershop. There was some
          discussion about song "construction issues" but that's all. In the final
          analysis, as we already knew, no rules had been broken. Maybe you should
          stick with their decision instead of rendering your own separate opinion of
          "which it wasn't."



          "If you want to win, sing a heartfelt rendition of "Sweet Adeline". It will
          score big time." A heartfelt rendition of Sweet Adeline can be magnificent
          if performed well but, if that's ALL we ever sang at contest and there was
          no innovation, it WOULD be a little tiresome, don't you think?



          As for "If you think that's boring, you don't belong, Icarus." I belong and
          have for some 31 years now. The ink on my application is clearly dry. I've
          been a Certified Judge. I've sung with three different International
          Champion Choruses and will categorically state this was one of the
          highlights of my Barbershop "career." Sometimes it's just a matter of
          perspective and sometimes people need a little shove to change their
          perspective.



          Contrary to the wishes of his father, Icarus flew too close to the sun,
          melted his wings and paid the ultimate price for it, and although we may
          have flown closer to the sun that we realized, our wings have not melted and
          we'll be flying again soon, having paid our price and singing Barbershop all
          the while.



          Thanks for caring enough to have and share an opinion.



          DD





          From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of T
          Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:20 AM
          To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [bbshop] Re: Recent judging questions



          The mere fact that the judges had to huddle indicates a real grey area. When
          contestants skate near that area they take a risk. Of course, if their
          performance is nowhere near barbershop, the judges have to decide under the
          new guidelines what is acceptable.

          I understand that the SG set was fantabulous and the audience loved it. I
          understand all the hard work that went into it and trying to make sure it
          would clear the judges guidelines. Well, it didn't work and I, for one,
          can't fault the judges for huddling and ultimately deciding it wasn't
          barbershop, which it wasn't. If you want to win, sing a heartfelt rendition
          of "Sweet Adeline". It will score big time. If you think that's boring, you
          don't belong, Icarus.
          To give you an example, take the Gas House Gang - one of the most
          entertaining quartets ever. When they got in medalist range, they decided to
          bag the jokes, the costumes, the schtick - put on tuxes, sang "Bright Was
          The Night", and won the gold.

          - Tom Campbell





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