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RE: [bbshop] Re: Is-ry-el ?

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  • Jade Walker
    I can dust off my knowledge of Latin. Using the German system of pronouncing Latin, the ae in caeli would be pronounced as a long i (which is
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 2, 2007
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      I can dust off my knowledge of Latin. Using the German system of pronouncing
      Latin, the "ae" in "caeli" would be pronounced as a long "i" (which is
      interesting, since most sung Latin uses the Italian system and pronounces
      "ae" as a long "a"). Perhaps whoever was first singing it pronounced it
      Latin-style.

      Then again, there's this:
      http://www.afoolintheforest.com/2003/12/how_do_we_prono.html. Assuming
      everything we read on the Web is true.

      Jade Walker
      jadewalker@...
      Or else it's a tradition, or an old charter, or something.

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com]
      > On Behalf Of garsinger
      > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 3:50 PM
      > To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [bbshop] Re: Is-ry-el ?
      >
      >
      > I've always assumed it was an attempt to do a "Hebrew-ish"
      > pronunciation of the word. I'm not familiar with conversational
      > Hebrew as it's currently spoken in Israel, but in modern "American
      > Prayerbook Hebrew", I most often hear it pronounced either
      > "Yees-rah- ell" or "Yees-roy-ell" (with a slight roll of the "r").
      >
      > Dave
      >
      > --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, Keith Richmond <keithr386@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Actually it is often sung that way. Another example is in "O come
      > o
      > > come Emmanuel".
      > >
      > > Keith R
      > >
      > >
      > > Joe Johnson wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I have always wondered why, in "The First Noel", the
      > word "Israel" is
      > > > traditionally pronounced "Is-ry-el". We don't say it that way any
      > > > other time, so why do we say that way in this particular song?
      > > >
      > > > JOE JOHNSON
      > > > House of Joseph Music
      > > > http://www.bbsmusic.com <http://www.bbsmusic.com>
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Joe De Felice
      After speaking with an Hebrew scholar friend, he says the Hebrew pronunciation is Yis-rah-el. Perhaps the turning of the ?diphthong? toward the el sound
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 2, 2007
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        After speaking with an Hebrew scholar friend, he says the Hebrew
        pronunciation is Yis-rah-el. Perhaps the turning of the ?diphthong?
        toward the "el" sound produces the the 'y' sound vs the 'ah' sound??

        Joe

        At 9/2/2007 01:34 PM, Jade Walker wrote:
        >I can dust off my knowledge of Latin. Using the German system of
        >pronouncing Latin, the "ae" in "caeli" would be pronounced as a long
        >"i" (which is interesting, since most sung Latin uses the Italian
        >system and pronounces "ae" as a long "a"). Perhaps whoever was
        >first singing it pronounced it Latin-style.
        >
        >Then again, there's this:
        >http://www.afoolintheforest.com/2003/12/how_do_we_prono.html.
        >Assuming everything we read on the Web is true.
        >
        >Jade Walker
        >jadewalker@...
        >Or else it's a tradition, or an old charter, or something.
        >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com]
        > > On Behalf Of garsinger
        > > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 3:50 PM
        > > To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [bbshop] Re: Is-ry-el ?
        > >
        > >
        > > I've always assumed it was an attempt to do a "Hebrew-ish"
        > > pronunciation of the word. I'm not familiar with conversational
        > > Hebrew as it's currently spoken in Israel, but in modern "American
        > > Prayerbook Hebrew", I most often hear it pronounced either
        > > "Yees-rah- ell" or "Yees-roy-ell" (with a slight roll of the "r").
        > >
        > > Dave
        > >
        > > --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, Keith Richmond <keithr386@...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Actually it is often sung that way. Another example is in "O come
        > > o
        > > > come Emmanuel".
        > > >
        > > > Keith R
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Joe Johnson wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I have always wondered why, in "The First Noel", the
        > > word "Israel" is
        > > > > traditionally pronounced "Is-ry-el". We don't say it that way any
        > > > > other time, so why do we say that way in this particular song?
        > > > >
        > > > > JOE JOHNSON
        > > > > House of Joseph Music
        > > > > http://www.bbsmusic.com <http://www.bbsmusic.com>
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
      • T
        Sorry, but it s about time to end this thread. There have been some interesting observations and links, but one thing you have to keep in mind. Language,
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 2, 2007
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          Sorry, but it's about time to end this thread. There have been some
          interesting observations and links, but one thing you have to keep in mind.
          Language, spelling, and pronunciation, is constantly in flux. There is no
          correct way. The word has been in existance for more than 3,000 years.
        • Charles May
          My wife s family speaks fluent Hebrew, and they pronounce it Yis-rah-ell . Chuck May Director, Montclair, NJ Bass, Big Apple Chorus ...
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 2, 2007
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            My wife's family speaks fluent Hebrew, and they pronounce it "Yis-rah-ell".

            Chuck May
            Director, Montclair, NJ
            Bass, Big Apple Chorus


            >From: "garsinger" <garsinger@...>
            >To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [bbshop] Re: Is-ry-el ?
            >Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:49:47 -0000
            >
            >I've always assumed it was an attempt to do a "Hebrew-ish"
            >pronunciation of the word. I'm not familiar with conversational
            >Hebrew as it's currently spoken in Israel, but in modern "American
            >Prayerbook Hebrew", I most often hear it pronounced either "Yees-rah-
            >ell" or "Yees-roy-ell" (with a slight roll of the "r").
            >
            >Dave
            >
            >--- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, Keith Richmond <keithr386@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Actually it is often sung that way. Another example is in "O come
            >o
            > > come Emmanuel".
            > >
            > > Keith R
            > >
            > >
            > > Joe Johnson wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I have always wondered why, in "The First Noel", the
            >word "Israel" is
            > > > traditionally pronounced "Is-ry-el". We don't say it that way any
            > > > other time, so why do we say that way in this particular song?
            > > >
            > > > JOE JOHNSON
            > > > House of Joseph Music
            > > > http://www.bbsmusic.com <http://www.bbsmusic.com>
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >

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          • Joe De Felice
            Huh??? Are you the Mr. T of TV fame etc?? If so you forgot to show us your police badge. Threads will die when people have no more they want to say. Until
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 2, 2007
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              Huh??? Are you the "Mr. T" of TV fame etc??
              If so you forgot to show us your police badge.
              Threads will die when people have no more they want to say.
              Until we have definitive answers or suggestions, or we give up
              on getting same, the thread SHOULD go on.

              Where did you come up with this state of flux on spelling and
              pronunciation anyway??? Does that mean "erl" is OK in place of "oil"?
              "youse" instead of "you" (Y'all for our Southern members), etc.??
              Or do you prefer something like ebonics which is an outgrowth of that
              kind of thinking/

              Sorry but it's end of summer blues for me.

              Joe


              At 9/2/2007 03:13 PM, T wrote:
              >Sorry, but it's about time to end this thread. There have been some
              >interesting observations and links, but one thing you have to keep in mind.
              >Language, spelling, and pronunciation, is constantly in flux. There is no
              >correct way. The word has been in existance for more than 3,000 years.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • EGPLEAD98@aol.com
              Hey Joe, Look at the bright side ??? only 3 more months till christmas !!!! SANTA JOE !!!! :) ERIC G PHILLIPS _EGPLEAD98@AOL.COM_
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 2, 2007
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                Hey Joe,
                Look at the bright side ??? only 3 more months till
                christmas !!!!

                SANTA JOE !!!! :)


                ERIC G PHILLIPS
                _EGPLEAD98@..._ (mailto:EGPLEAD98@...)

                LOOKING FOR A TENOR,BASS,BARI !!!
                M-AD



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