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RE: In the Wee Small Hours...

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  • Chip Davis
    Ken, Before you go through the trouble of finding an arrangement of In the Wee Small Hours , learning it, AND PERFORMING IT (or thinking you might compete
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 4, 2006
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      Ken,

      Before you go through the trouble of finding an arrangement of "In the Wee
      Small Hours", learning it, AND PERFORMING IT (or thinking you might compete
      with it), you may want to check with Colleen at headquarters. Vantage Point
      was learning a new arrangement of this for prelims this spring and in the
      process of getting legals, found out from Colleen that this song has been
      "locked up" by Disney (the owner of the song) and because the legal problems
      were so messed up that the society was not even releasing previous
      arrangements. We ended up having to learn another song at the last moment
      to replace it.

      Maybe things are cleared up now... or at least for previous arrangements,
      but I would check first.

      Chip Davis
      Bass, Vantage Point
      www.vantagepointquartet.com





      Message: 3
      Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 15:17:46 -0000
      From: "Ken Lambert" <kenlambert@...>
      Subject: In the Wee Small Hours . .

      Does anyone know who did the arrangment for "In the Wee Small Hours of
      the Morning" that Wheelhouse has done at the last couple of
      Internationals?

      I know that Walter Latzko did an arrangement that Marquis recorded,
      but do not know if Wheelhouse is using the Latzko arrangement or
      another.
    • Clare McCreary
      Chip Davis wrote:
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 4, 2006
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        Chip Davis wrote: <<<found out from Colleen that this song has been
        "locked up" by Disney (the owner of the song) and because the legal problems
        were so messed up that the society was not even releasing previous
        arrangements. We ended up having to learn another song at the last moment
        to replace it.>>>

        St. Petersburg's Suncoast Chorus had the same response just two weeks ago. All the arrangements of that song made by individuals for quartets and choruses would be presumed to be illegal. They could not have gotten permission to arrange in the first place. If any arranger of "Wee Small Hours" has a legal permission to arrange, we all would like to know about it. It is a nice song.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bruce
        IN THE WEE SMALL HOURS OF THE MORNING was arranged by Walter Latzko in 1993. The copy he sent me 2 years ago shows that the 1955 copyright was owned by Better
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 4, 2006
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          IN THE WEE SMALL HOURS OF THE MORNING was arranged by Walter Latzko in 1993.
          The copy he sent me 2 years ago shows that the 1955 copyright was owned by
          Better Half Music and Rytvoc Music and renewed in 1983. The arrangement says
          arranged by permission, and is authorized.

          He also did an arrangement of this song and "ALWAYS" in 1997, again
          authorized.

          These arrangements I would assume are legal to sing.

          Bruce Checca
          Saratoga Springs, NY



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Clare McCreary" <cmccrear@...>
          To: "Chip Davis" <chipdavis@...>; <bbshop@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 1:10 PM
          Subject: Re: [bbshop] RE: In the Wee Small Hours...


          > Chip Davis wrote: <<<found out from Colleen that this song has been
          > "locked up" by Disney (the owner of the song) and because the legal
          > problems
          > were so messed up that the society was not even releasing previous
          > arrangements. We ended up having to learn another song at the last moment
          > to replace it.>>>
          >
          > St. Petersburg's Suncoast Chorus had the same response just two weeks ago.
          > All the arrangements of that song made by individuals for quartets and
          > choruses would be presumed to be illegal. They could not have gotten
          > permission to arrange in the first place. If any arranger of "Wee Small
          > Hours" has a legal permission to arrange, we all would like to know about
          > it. It is a nice song.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Tom Emmert
          Never done better than by Marquis: http://www.a-cappella.com/catalog/browse-cds-by-style/barbershop/all- barbershop/p_5200c.html Tom A-1 Marquis fan ... in
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 4, 2006
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            Never done better than by Marquis:

            http://www.a-cappella.com/catalog/browse-cds-by-style/barbershop/all-
            barbershop/p_5200c.html

            Tom
            A-1 Marquis fan

            --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <bchecca1@...> wrote:
            >
            > IN THE WEE SMALL HOURS OF THE MORNING was arranged by Walter Latzko
            in 1993.
            > The copy he sent me 2 years ago shows that the 1955 copyright was
            owned by
            > Better Half Music and Rytvoc Music and renewed in 1983. The
            arrangement says
            > arranged by permission, and is authorized.
            >
            > He also did an arrangement of this song and "ALWAYS" in 1997, again
            > authorized.
            >
            > These arrangements I would assume are legal to sing.
            >
            > Bruce Checca
            > Saratoga Springs, NY
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Clare McCreary" <cmccrear@...>
            > To: "Chip Davis" <chipdavis@...>; <bbshop@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 1:10 PM
            > Subject: Re: [bbshop] RE: In the Wee Small Hours...
            >
            >
            > > Chip Davis wrote: <<<found out from Colleen that this song has
            been
            > > "locked up" by Disney (the owner of the song) and because the
            legal
            > > problems
            > > were so messed up that the society was not even releasing previous
            > > arrangements. We ended up having to learn another song at the
            last moment
            > > to replace it.>>>
            > >
            > > St. Petersburg's Suncoast Chorus had the same response just two
            weeks ago.
            > > All the arrangements of that song made by individuals for
            quartets and
            > > choruses would be presumed to be illegal. They could not have
            gotten
            > > permission to arrange in the first place. If any arranger
            of "Wee Small
            > > Hours" has a legal permission to arrange, we all would like to
            know about
            > > it. It is a nice song.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • EGPDIR@aol.com
            Never done better by the ALEXANDRIA HARMONIZERS of THE M-AD !!! This chorus has a recording named by this song, This is SCOTT WERNERS last directing gig with
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 4, 2006
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              Never done better by the ALEXANDRIA HARMONIZERS of THE M-AD !!!

              This chorus has a recording named by this song, This is SCOTT WERNERS last
              directing gig with the Harmonizers.

              BIG HARMONIZERS FAN

              ERIC G PHILLIPS
              _EGPDIR@..._ (mailto:EGPDIR@...)
              DIRECTOR - CARLISLE PA CHAPTER
              M-AD WESTERN DIVISION SMALL CHORUS


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jim Emery
              ... You might check with Walter Latzko (http://www.frontiernet.net/~latzmuzk/). He has an arrangement that was recorded by Marquis in 1993. He also has an
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 4, 2006
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                > If any arranger of "Wee Small Hours" has a legal permission to arrange,
                > we all would like to know about it. It is a nice song.

                You might check with Walter Latzko (http://www.frontiernet.net/~latzmuzk/). He
                has an arrangement that was recorded by Marquis in 1993. He also has an
                arrangement that medleys this song with "Always" that was performed by
                Alexandria at International, I think in 1996. I believe Walter was always
                pretty good about staying legal.

                --Jim
                ___________________________________________________
                Jim Emery
                Singing Judge
                Hilltop, MN
                Great Northern Union chorus
                After Midnight quartet
              • Jeremy Reynolds
                Of course, Alexandria won the gold several years ago with their arrangement of this song. Was that legal or do we have to go back and take their medals away?
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 4, 2006
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                  Of course, Alexandria won the gold several years ago with their
                  arrangement of this song. Was that legal or do we have to go back and
                  take their medals away? (^o^)

                  Jeremy Reynolds
                  Won the silver that year.
                • John Elving
                  And, it begs the question, does the BHS have to take all recordings of it off their Live365 broadcast? John Elving Rapid City, SD
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 5, 2006
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                    And, it begs the question, does the BHS have to take all recordings of
                    it off their Live365 broadcast?

                    John Elving
                    Rapid City, SD

                    Jeremy Reynolds wrote:

                    >Of course, Alexandria won the gold several years ago with their
                    >arrangement of this song. Was that legal or do we have to go back and
                    >take their medals away? (^o^)
                    >
                    >
                  • Ken Lambert
                    He does have a good arrangement. However, that one (like all of the ones handled by the Society, as his are) is not currently available. ... arrange, ...
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 5, 2006
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                      He does have a good arrangement. However, that one (like all of the
                      ones handled by the Society, as his are) is not currently available.


                      --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, Jim Emery <jimemery@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > If any arranger of "Wee Small Hours" has a legal permission to
                      arrange,
                      > > we all would like to know about it. It is a nice song.
                      >
                      > You might check with Walter Latzko
                      (http://www.frontiernet.net/~latzmuzk/). He
                      > has an arrangement that was recorded by Marquis in 1993. He also
                      has an
                      > arrangement that medleys this song with "Always" that was
                      performed by
                      > Alexandria at International, I think in 1996. I believe Walter
                      was always
                      > pretty good about staying legal.
                      >
                      > --Jim
                      > ___________________________________________________
                      > Jim Emery
                      > Singing Judge
                      > Hilltop, MN
                      > Great Northern Union chorus
                      > After Midnight quartet
                      >
                    • Shelley Herman
                      ... Probably not because the song is most likely licensed by ASCAP or BMI and broadcasters have blanket license to use it. Also it can be performed on a show
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 5, 2006
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                        > From: John Elving <leaderman@...>
                        > Subject: Re: [bbshop] RE: In the Wee Small Hours...
                        >
                        > And, it begs the question, does the BHS have to take all recordings of
                        > it off their Live365 broadcast?

                        Probably not because the song is most likely licensed by ASCAP or BMI and
                        broadcasters have blanket license to use it. Also it can be performed on a
                        show that has a license.

                        As I have said on this forum many times, performance rights are controlled
                        by ASCAP,BMI or other similar organizations and publishing rights are
                        controlled by the copyright owner.

                        Shelley Herman
                        saherman@...
                      • Bruce
                        I received this from Walter this moning.... as he says, that s it as far as the arranger is concerned.... Bruce Checca ... From: Walter Latzko To: Bruce Checca
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 5, 2006
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                          I received this from Walter this moning.... as he says, that's it as far
                          as the arranger is concerned....

                          Bruce Checca



                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Walter Latzko
                          To: Bruce Checca
                          Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 10:47 AM
                          Subject: Wee


                          Dear Bruce, old friend:

                          You are so right about my arrangements of Wee Small Hours for Marquis
                          and Aleandria with Always. The latter arrangement, by the way, was cleared
                          thru Hal Leonard. So that tells it all, as far as this arranger is
                          concerned!

                          Best Regards,
                          Walter
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          All,From: "John Elving" <leaderman@...>
                          Cc: <bbshop@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 8:15 AM
                          Subject: Re: [bbshop] RE: In the Wee Small Hours...


                          > And, it begs the question, does the BHS have to take all recordings of
                          > it off their Live365 broadcast?
                          >
                          > John Elving
                          > Rapid City, SD
                          >
                          > Jeremy Reynolds wrote:
                          >
                          >>Of course, Alexandria won the gold several years ago with their
                          >>arrangement of this song. Was that legal or do we have to go back and
                          >>take their medals away? (^o^)
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Bruce Baedke
                          My question is if a chorus/quartet has previously purchased an arrangement from the Society but it is now no longer available (Wee Small Hours, for example).
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 5, 2006
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                            My question is if a chorus/quartet has previously purchased an
                            arrangement from the Society but it is now no longer available (Wee
                            Small Hours, for example).

                            Can they still perform that piece in a show?

                            With the new Society procedures for clearing arrangements for contests

                            http://www.barbershop.org/web/groups/public/documents/pages/nl_on_the_qt_home.hcsp#P73_10026

                            can that type of song be sung in a contest?
                            If not, is it grounds for DQ?

                            Would be good to have a statement from the Society. Would hate to see
                            anyone get Rip(tide)ped off. ;)

                            Bruce Baedke <><

                            Bass - Pride of Iowa Chorus




                            --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <bchecca1@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I received this from Walter this moning.... as he says, that's it
                            as far
                            > as the arranger is concerned....
                            >
                            > Bruce Checca
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Walter Latzko
                            > To: Bruce Checca
                            > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 10:47 AM
                            > Subject: Wee
                            >
                            >
                            > Dear Bruce, old friend:
                            >
                            > You are so right about my arrangements of Wee Small Hours for
                            Marquis
                            > and Aleandria with Always. The latter arrangement, by the way, was
                            cleared
                            > thru Hal Leonard. So that tells it all, as far as this arranger is
                            > concerned!
                            >
                            > Best Regards,
                            > Walter
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > All,From: "John Elving" <leaderman@...>
                            > Cc: <bbshop@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 8:15 AM
                            > Subject: Re: [bbshop] RE: In the Wee Small Hours...
                            >
                            >
                            > > And, it begs the question, does the BHS have to take all recordings of
                            > > it off their Live365 broadcast?
                            > >
                            > > John Elving
                            > > Rapid City, SD
                            > >
                            > > Jeremy Reynolds wrote:
                            > >
                            > >>Of course, Alexandria won the gold several years ago with their
                            > >>arrangement of this song. Was that legal or do we have to go back and
                            > >>take their medals away? (^o^)
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Michael Bell
                            The right to arrange a song is completely separate from the right to perform that song. The right to copy is separate from the right to perform. The fact that
                            Message 13 of 14 , Apr 5, 2006
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                              The right to arrange a song is completely separate from the right to perform that song.
                              The right to copy is separate from the right to perform. The fact that a publisher has made
                              an arrangement unavailable is completely separate from the right to perform that
                              arrangement.

                              On a slightly different subject... According to current SPEBSQSA rules can a quartet sing
                              a woodshedded arrangement in contest? How about a woodshedded tag to a published
                              arrangement?

                              Any Music Category judges out there?

                              MB


                              --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Baedke" <kbaedke@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > My question is if a chorus/quartet has previously purchased an
                              > arrangement from the Society but it is now no longer available (Wee
                              > Small Hours, for example).
                              >
                              > Can they still perform that piece in a show?
                              >
                              > With the new Society procedures for clearing arrangements for contests
                              >
                              > http://www.barbershop.org/web/groups/public/documents/pages/
                              nl_on_the_qt_home.hcsp#P73_10026
                              >
                              > can that type of song be sung in a contest?
                              > If not, is it grounds for DQ?
                              >
                              > Would be good to have a statement from the Society. Would hate to see
                              > anyone get Rip(tide)ped off. ;)
                              >
                              > Bruce Baedke <><
                              >
                              > Bass - Pride of Iowa Chorus

                              >
                            • Chip Davis
                              I m just saying things have changed recently... some problem with the ownership... which now supposedly is Disney. Just check with Colleen. The word given to
                              Message 14 of 14 , Apr 5, 2006
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                                I'm just saying things have changed recently... some problem with the
                                ownership... which now supposedly is Disney. Just check with Colleen. The
                                word given to me was that even the old approved arrangements were being
                                "pulled".

                                Chip




                                >Message: 5
                                > Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 17:42:33 -0400
                                > From: Jim Emery <jimemery@...>
                                >Subject: Re: RE: In the Wee Small Hours...
                                >
                                >> If any arranger of "Wee Small Hours" has a legal permission to arrange,
                                >> we all would like to know about it. It is a nice song.
                                >
                                >You might check with Walter Latzko (http://www.frontiernet.net/~latzmuzk/).
                                He
                                >has an arrangement that was recorded by Marquis in 1993. He also has an
                                >arrangement that medleys this song with "Always" that was performed by
                                >Alexandria at International, I think in 1996. I believe Walter was always
                                >pretty good about staying legal.
                                >
                                >--Jim
                                >___________________________________________________
                                >Jim Emery
                                >Singing Judge
                                >Hilltop, MN
                                >Great Northern Union chorus
                                >After Midnight quartet
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