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Re: [bbshop] Vests

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  • Frank Leitnaker
    Glad you were paying attention, Joe. But me thinks you were taking my remarks a tad more seriously than intended but let me just say I intended not to give
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 1, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Glad you were paying attention, Joe. But me thinks you were taking my
      remarks a tad more seriously than intended but let me just say I intended
      not to give advice on sartorial splendor but merely suggest a quick fix. I
      might also suggest that I have no conflict of interest in the matter since I
      don't sell vests. And although I might stipulate that your advice
      undoubtedly covers the ideal situation as well as the shirt, I can think of
      a number of scenarios in which mine might well be superior and, of course,
      easily as many in which yours would be. Fact is, I have never been
      privileged to view the original stone tablets on which were inscribed the
      Ten Commandments so I didn't know that one was , "Never wear a cummerbund
      with a vest."

      Maybe you meant, "Never wear a cummerbund OVER a vest" and I don't have a
      problem with that. What I believe we were discussing is the "triangle of
      shame" referring to a small triangle of white shirt that shows between the
      bottom of the unbuttoned vest and the top of the pants underneath. I
      contend that if the cummerbund and the pants are the same color, very few
      people other than the wearer and perhaps a haberdasher or two would even
      notice. Except for the "triangle of shame" which is now covered by the
      cummerbund, the vest covers the cummerbund. I have nothing against
      haberdasherery as it is one profession one can fail at and still be elected
      President of the United States.

      Frank Leitnaker who can be just as anal about really important matters--in
      contradistinction to the allowable amount of white shirt that shows and
      where--but who doesn't take himself very seriously in this discussion.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Joe De Felice" <showglowjoe@...>
      To: "Frank Leitnaker" <fleitnaker@...>; <jadewalker@...>;
      "'Harmonet'" <bbshop@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 6:36 PM
      Subject: Re: [bbshop] Vests


      > And while you are at it wear a belt AND suspenders....
      > I said Amen to Jade privately.... but let me say it again here.
      > The vest must cover all the shirt.... dont short change the entertainer
      > (note to all chorus costume/uniform chairs)... check out the look.
      >
      > As to your statement... if you wear a vest you never wear a cummerbund
      > (unless you wear the vest open or as a bolero).
      > Besides.... it is impossible "not to look"... that's the point it is
      > definitely a distraction IMNSHO.
      >
      > And while we are at it what's the sense of wearing a Tuxedo if you dont
      > have it altered for proper fit (and re-do that when you put on more than a
      > few pounds and can no longer make the buttons reach the button holes).
      > Wearing it open is OK for performance, but not if you do so because the
      > coat doesn't fit you).
      >
      > And please.... when you are issued or otherwise acquire a coat, be it
      > casual, blazer or formal.... get the sleeves put at the right length so
      > you dont look like a monkey with sleeves down to your knuckles, or so
      > short that you show a couple of inches of shirt sleeve. Half and inch of
      > shirt sleeve will do just fine... or none, if you are comfy with that on
      > stage. You probably spent some good bucks for the outfit.... make it
      > look good and not careless.
      >
      > And while I am spouting all this, if you go for an image, I would
      > recommend you sing both contest songs to fit that image, not just one or
      > worse... none.
      >
      > Think about how many you may have seen where there is no relation
      > to the songs, or there is, but only to one of the set. Concert is one
      > type performance, but image is something different where the outfit
      > becomes part of the performance.
      >
      > Class dismissed (for now) ;-)
      >
      > Show Glow Joe (since 1983)
      >
      >
      >
      > At 4/1/2006 01:13 AM, Frank Leitnaker wrote:
      >>A cummerbund works nicely for this problem but, "triangle of shame"?
      >>Well!
      >>Just don't look! 8^)
      >>
      >>Frank Leitnaker
      >>
      >>
      >>----- Original Message -----
      >>From: "Jade Walker" <jadewalker@...>
      >>To: "'Harmonet'" <bbshop@yahoogroups.com>
      >>Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 1:45 AM
      >>Subject: RE: [bbshop] Vests
      >>
      >>
      >> > I'm not sure about the buttoned/unbuttoned issue, but what I don't like
      >> > is
      >> > when the bottom
      >> > of the vest doesn't quite make it to the top of the pants, usually
      >> > where
      >> > the
      >> > buttons
      >> > are, and the shirt peeks through there. My term for it is the "triangle
      >> > of
      >> > shame".
      >> >
      >> > Jade
      >> > jadewalker@...
      >> >
      >> >> -----Original Message-----
      >> >> From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com]
      >> >> On Behalf Of Skip Hardwick
      >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:47 PM
      >> >> To: Harmonet
      >> >> Subject: [bbshop] Vests
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >> Just a quick question for all you keepers of worthless but
      >> >> interesting information.
      >> >> Our assistant director insists that when wearing our vests,
      >> >> the bottom button should not be buttoned. Does this have any
      >> >> relevance in history, or is it just that he can't button that one?
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >> Skip Hardwick
      >> >> Pueblo Sunsational Chorus
      >> >> Changing Times Quartet
      >> >>
      >> >> Skip_sings_bass
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
    • Joe De Felice
      I had and have no intention of being controversial in my post, merely helpful as I have been for some 23 years. I guess if you take the trouble to get a
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 1, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        I had and have no intention of being controversial in my post,
        merely helpful as I have been for some 23 years.

        I guess if you take the trouble to get a cummerbund that matches
        the color of your pants, that might work, but I dont see many white
        or colored cummerbunds being used to cover a sizing error.

        The point is that some people just aren't paying attention to what
        was referred to as the "triangle of shame" (writer's words) and see
        no problem with just wearing such a bad fit. BTW it also happens
        when vests only come in Regular proportions and not Longs (i.e not
        necessarily an overweight problem). You are what you appear to be to
        a casual and knowing observer.

        "Sartorial Splendor" ?? ..... Oh well.

        Show Glow Joe

        At 4/1/2006 02:19 PM, Frank Leitnaker wrote:
        >Glad you were paying attention, Joe. But me thinks you were taking
        >my remarks a tad more seriously than intended but let me just say I
        >intended not to give advice on sartorial splendor but merely suggest
        >a quick fix. I might also suggest that I have no conflict of
        >interest in the matter since I don't sell vests. And although I
        >might stipulate that your advice undoubtedly covers the ideal
        >situation as well as the shirt, I can think of a number of scenarios
        >in which mine might well be superior and, of course, easily as many
        >in which yours would be. Fact is, I have never been privileged to
        >view the original stone tablets on which were inscribed the Ten
        >Commandments so I didn't know that one was , "Never wear a
        >cummerbund with a vest."
        >
        >Maybe you meant, "Never wear a cummerbund OVER a vest" and I don't
        >have a problem with that. What I believe we were discussing is the
        >"triangle of shame" referring to a small triangle of white shirt
        >that shows between the bottom of the unbuttoned vest and the top of
        >the pants underneath. I contend that if the cummerbund and the
        >pants are the same color, very few people other than the wearer and
        >perhaps a haberdasher or two would even notice. Except for the
        >"triangle of shame" which is now covered by the cummerbund, the vest
        >covers the cummerbund. I have nothing against haberdasherery as it
        >is one profession one can fail at and still be elected President of
        >the United States.
        >
        >Frank Leitnaker who can be just as anal about really important
        >matters--in contradistinction to the allowable amount of white shirt
        >that shows and where--but who doesn't take himself very seriously in
        >this discussion.
        >
        >
        >----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe De Felice" <showglowjoe@...>
        >To: "Frank Leitnaker" <fleitnaker@...>;
        ><jadewalker@...>; "'Harmonet'" <bbshop@yahoogroups.com>
        >Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 6:36 PM
        >Subject: Re: [bbshop] Vests
        >
        >
        >>And while you are at it wear a belt AND suspenders....
        >>I said Amen to Jade privately.... but let me say it again here.
        >>The vest must cover all the shirt.... dont short change the
        >>entertainer (note to all chorus costume/uniform chairs)... check out the look.
        >>
        >>As to your statement... if you wear a vest you never wear a
        >>cummerbund (unless you wear the vest open or as a bolero).
        >>Besides.... it is impossible "not to look"... that's the point it is
        >>definitely a distraction IMNSHO.
        >>
        >>And while we are at it what's the sense of wearing a Tuxedo if you
        >>dont have it altered for proper fit (and re-do that when you put on
        >>more than a few pounds and can no longer make the buttons reach the
        >>button holes). Wearing it open is OK for performance, but not if
        >>you do so because the coat doesn't fit you).
        >>
        >>And please.... when you are issued or otherwise acquire a coat,
        >>be it casual, blazer or formal.... get the sleeves put at the
        >>right length so you dont look like a monkey with sleeves down to
        >>your knuckles, or so short that you show a couple of inches of
        >>shirt sleeve. Half and inch of shirt sleeve will do just
        >>fine... or none, if you are comfy with that on stage. You
        >>probably spent some good bucks for the outfit.... make it look
        >>good and not careless.
        >>
        >>And while I am spouting all this, if you go for an image, I would
        >>recommend you sing both contest songs to fit that image, not just
        >>one or worse... none.
        >>
        >>Think about how many you may have seen where there is no relation
        >>to the songs, or there is, but only to one of the set. Concert is
        >>one type performance, but image is something different where the
        >>outfit becomes part of the performance.
        >>
        >>Class dismissed (for now) ;-)
        >>
        >>Show Glow Joe (since 1983)
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>At 4/1/2006 01:13 AM, Frank Leitnaker wrote:
        >>>A cummerbund works nicely for this problem but, "triangle of shame"? Well!
        >>>Just don't look! 8^)
        >>>
        >>>Frank Leitnaker
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>----- Original Message -----
        >>>From: "Jade Walker" <jadewalker@...>
        >>>To: "'Harmonet'" <bbshop@yahoogroups.com>
        >>>Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 1:45 AM
        >>>Subject: RE: [bbshop] Vests
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> > I'm not sure about the buttoned/unbuttoned issue, but what I
        >>> don't like > is
        >>> > when the bottom
        >>> > of the vest doesn't quite make it to the top of the pants,
        >>> usually > where
        >>> > the
        >>> > buttons
        >>> > are, and the shirt peeks through there. My term for it is the
        >>> "triangle > of
        >>> > shame".
        >>> >
        >>> > Jade
        >>> > jadewalker@...
        >>> >
        >>> >> -----Original Message-----
        >>> >> From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com]
        >>> >> On Behalf Of Skip Hardwick
        >>> >> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:47 PM
        >>> >> To: Harmonet
        >>> >> Subject: [bbshop] Vests
        >>> >>
        >>> >>
        >>> >> Just a quick question for all you keepers of worthless but
        >>> >> interesting information.
        >>> >> Our assistant director insists that when wearing our vests,
        >>> >> the bottom button should not be buttoned. Does this have any
        >>> >> relevance in history, or is it just that he can't button that one?
        >>> >>
        >>> >>
        >>> >> Skip Hardwick
        >>> >> Pueblo Sunsational Chorus
        >>> >> Changing Times Quartet
        >>> >>
        >>> >> Skip_sings_bass
        >>> >>
        >>> >>
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >
      • David Wallace
        An idea that s worked well a few times for me while directing is -- marching band pants! The waist band is all the way up below the rib cage. As a director
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 1, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          An idea that's worked well a few times for me while directing is --
          marching band pants! The waist band is all the way up below the rib cage. As
          a director it's particularly helpful because it hides the "gap" when you
          raise your arms. You can wear them with a vest, or sew a fake cummerbund
          around the top. Remember, it's a costume, not street clothes.

          David Wallace
          lead - "The Rapscallions", 1984 International Champs
          master director - "Heart of Ohio" SAI chorus


          -----Original Message-----
          From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Joe De Felice
          Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 11:36 AM
          To: Frank Leitnaker; jadewalker@...; 'Harmonet'
          Subject: Re: [bbshop] Vests

          And while you are at it wear a belt AND suspenders....
          I said Amen to Jade privately.... but let me say it again here.
          The vest must cover all the shirt.... dont short change the
          entertainer (note to all chorus costume/uniform chairs)... check out the
          look.

          As to your statement... if you wear a vest you never wear a
          cummerbund (unless you wear the vest open or as a bolero).
          Besides.... it is impossible "not to look"... that's the point it is
          definitely a distraction IMNSHO.

          And while we are at it what's the sense of wearing a Tuxedo if you
          dont have it altered for proper fit (and re-do that when you put on
          more than a few pounds and can no longer make the buttons reach the
          button holes). Wearing it open is OK for performance, but not if you
          do so because the coat doesn't fit you).

          And please.... when you are issued or otherwise acquire a coat, be
          it casual, blazer or formal.... get the sleeves put at the right
          length so you dont look like a monkey with sleeves down to your
          knuckles, or so short that you show a couple of inches of shirt
          sleeve. Half and inch of shirt sleeve will do just fine... or none,
          if you are comfy with that on stage. You probably spent some good
          bucks for the outfit.... make it look good and not careless.

          And while I am spouting all this, if you go for an image, I would
          recommend you sing both contest songs to fit that image, not just one
          or worse... none.

          Think about how many you may have seen where there is no relation
          to the songs, or there is, but only to one of the set. Concert is
          one type performance, but image is something different where the
          outfit becomes part of the performance.

          Class dismissed (for now) ;-)

          Show Glow Joe (since 1983)



          At 4/1/2006 01:13 AM, Frank Leitnaker wrote:
          >A cummerbund works nicely for this problem but, "triangle of shame"?
          Well!
          >Just don't look! 8^)
          >
          >Frank Leitnaker
          >
          >
          >----- Original Message -----
          >From: "Jade Walker" <jadewalker@...>
          >To: "'Harmonet'" <bbshop@yahoogroups.com>
          >Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 1:45 AM
          >Subject: RE: [bbshop] Vests
          >
          >
          > > I'm not sure about the buttoned/unbuttoned issue, but what I don't like
          is
          > > when the bottom
          > > of the vest doesn't quite make it to the top of the pants, usually where
          > > the
          > > buttons
          > > are, and the shirt peeks through there. My term for it is the "triangle
          of
          > > shame".
          > >
          > > Jade
          > > jadewalker@...
          > >
          > >> -----Original Message-----
          > >> From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com]
          > >> On Behalf Of Skip Hardwick
          > >> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:47 PM
          > >> To: Harmonet
          > >> Subject: [bbshop] Vests
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> Just a quick question for all you keepers of worthless but
          > >> interesting information.
          > >> Our assistant director insists that when wearing our vests,
          > >> the bottom button should not be buttoned. Does this have any
          > >> relevance in history, or is it just that he can't button that one?
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> Skip Hardwick
          > >> Pueblo Sunsational Chorus
          > >> Changing Times Quartet
          > >>
          > >> Skip_sings_bass
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >




          Yahoo! Groups Links








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Martin Grandahl
          ... Hahaha...that s perfect... I recently had to do some digital manipulation to kill the triangles from a live shot the quartet wanted to use for their CD.
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 3, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            > what I don't like is when the bottom
            > of the vest doesn't quite make it to
            > the top of the pants, usually where
            > the buttons are, and the shirt peeks
            > through there. My term for it is the
            > "triangle of shame".

            Hahaha...that's perfect...

            I recently had to do some digital manipulation to kill the triangles
            from a live shot the quartet wanted to use for their CD. Not for the
            first time...

            In defense of the quartets, though - sometimes the physical movements
            on stage can raise the layers up a bit - so they should be forgiven
            when it happens during a song.... =)

            --
            Martin Grandahl
            www.theAfterglowLounge.org
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