Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [bbshop] Re: 2 unrelated questions...

Expand Messages
  • Jason Boddie
    Now this is what the H-net is for. I Love It. And David great explination. I do like using the Lower case letters ( ii7 ) for the minor chords though. It
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 31, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Now this is what the H-net is for. I Love It. And
      David great explination.

      I do like using the Lower case letters ( ii7 ) for the
      minor chords though. It messes me all up when you use
      the capitals. But that is just me.

      Jason
      --- David Bailey-Aldrich <dbaldrich1@...> wrote:
      > --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, gsbmedal@c... wrote:
      > At 01:01 PM 7/30/2003 -0700, Todd Wollin wrote:
      > Theory related question...
      > In the key of F the roman numerals are
      > F = I
      > G = ii
      > A = iii
      > B = IV and so on
      >
      > The chords that go with those, 1 F,A,C ii G,Bb,D
      > iii A,C,E and so
      > on. Is there also a II chord that would be
      > G,B(natural)D? II being
      > major and ii being minor? and III would be A,C#,E
      > and so on?
      >
      ------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > Todd,
      >
      > Jay did a great job of clarifying a number of
      > things, especially as
      > they relate to barbershop arranging. What a great
      > learning
      > experience.
      >
      > I also agree with Jay's choice to use the large
      > roman numerals (II
      > instead of ii) and adding accidentals (#'s and b's)
      > when using non-
      > diatonic pitches.
      >
      > In your example, II would be G-B(nat)-D. IIm7 would
      > add F on top (F
      > being a m7 above G), and acts as the V7 of C. Only
      > the B is altered
      > from the key signature. This is an example of a
      > "secondary dominant"
      > chord. At the risk of telling you something you
      > already know, this
      > is a good cadential chord progression: IIm7-Vm7-I.
      >
      > IIIm7 would be A-C#-E-G. Again only one pitch, C#,
      > is altered. This
      > chord acts as a secondary dominant to D (or VI in
      > the key of F).
      > Now, in F Major, VI is a minor chord (D-F-A). If
      > you wanted to
      > continue working around the circle of 5ths, you
      > could use F# and add
      > a C to make a VIm7. This chord acts as the
      > secondary dominant (or
      > Vm7) of II (D-F#-A-C goes to G-Bb-D). You can
      > substitute the IIm7
      > indicated above (G-B-D-F) and then go to Vm7
      > (C-E-G-Bb) and finally
      > resolve to I (F-A-C).
      >
      > The progression looks like this using numerals, with
      > pitch
      > alterations in parentheses:
      > IIIm7(#3)-VIm7(nat3)-IIm7(nat3)-Vm7-I.
      >
      > If you want it to look less complicated it looks
      > like this: A7-D7-G7-
      > C7-F.
      >
      > As Jay mentioned, the secondary domniant creates a
      > temporary shift in
      > tonality. For that short moment (usually just two
      > or three chords),
      > it's as if you're in a new key. If we go back to
      > the example of the
      > IIm7 chord, it is really acting as the Vm7 in the
      > key of C. But, we
      > don't change key signatures because the trip to the
      > new key is so
      > short. Instead, we just alter the individual
      > pitches chromatically
      > as needed.
      >
      > I hope that this is helpful to you.
      >
      > David Bailey-Aldrich
      > Lead - GNU - Hilltop MN Chapter
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > bbshop-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >


      =====
      Jason I. Boddie

      __________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
      http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
    • David Bailey-Aldrich
      ... Thanks Jason. I m just glad my explanation was clear to someone. The first undergraduate program I attended used the upper and lower case roman numerals.
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 31, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, Jason Boddie <bari322252002@y...>
        wrote:
        > Now this is what the H-net is for. I Love It. And
        > David great explination.
        >
        > I do like using the Lower case letters ( ii7 ) for the
        > minor chords though. It messes me all up when you use
        > the capitals. But that is just me.
        ---------------------------------------------------------

        Thanks Jason. I'm just glad my explanation was clear to someone.

        The first undergraduate program I attended used the upper and lower
        case roman numerals. This past year I had a professor who preferred
        using all upper case roman numerals, showing any deviations from the
        key signature with accidentals or other symbols.

        I found that after a few weeks of getting used to the new system, it
        was actually easier to read than the other system. Not everyone
        agreed. To each their own.

        I've learned a lot about the theory of barbershop from reading the
        Harmonet, although I'm not nearly as brave as Todd, who is actually
        trying his hand at arranging. Good luck Todd (and all you other
        aspiring arrangers).

        David B-A
      • Todd Wollin
        You love it? Man I LOVE it. You should see my music binder... I ve got printed out emails, circle of fifths print outs, clock diagrams printed out, chord
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 31, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          You love it? Man I LOVE it. You should see my music binder... I've got printed out emails, circle of fifths print outs, clock diagrams printed out, chord progression printed out. I look like a music theory nerd carrying that stuff to work, chorus rehearsal, quartet rehearsal, the bathroom :)

          Now I gotta let some of this stuff sink in. I'm gonna need to get a part time job just to pay for things like Harmony college, Mini-hep weekends, tutoring sessions. Cool stuff though.

          Thanks a million guys,
          Todd


          Jason Boddie <bari322252002@...> wrote:
          Now this is what the H-net is for. I Love It. And
          David great explination.

          I do like using the Lower case letters ( ii7 ) for the
          minor chords though. It messes me all up when you use
          the capitals. But that is just me.

          Jason
          --- David Bailey-Aldrich wrote:
          > --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, gsbmedal@c... wrote:
          > At 01:01 PM 7/30/2003 -0700, Todd Wollin wrote:
          > Theory related question...
          > In the key of F the roman numerals are
          > F = I
          > G = ii
          > A = iii
          > B = IV and so on
          >
          > The chords that go with those, 1 F,A,C ii G,Bb,D
          > iii A,C,E and so
          > on. Is there also a II chord that would be
          > G,B(natural)D? II being
          > major and ii being minor? and III would be A,C#,E
          > and so on?
          >
          ------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > Todd,
          >
          > Jay did a great job of clarifying a number of
          > things, especially as
          > they relate to barbershop arranging. What a great
          > learning
          > experience.
          >
          > I also agree with Jay's choice to use the large
          > roman numerals (II
          > instead of ii) and adding accidentals (#'s and b's)
          > when using non-
          > diatonic pitches.
          >
          > In your example, II would be G-B(nat)-D. IIm7 would
          > add F on top (F
          > being a m7 above G), and acts as the V7 of C. Only
          > the B is altered
          > from the key signature. This is an example of a
          > "secondary dominant"
          > chord. At the risk of telling you something you
          > already know, this
          > is a good cadential chord progression: IIm7-Vm7-I.
          >
          > IIIm7 would be A-C#-E-G. Again only one pitch, C#,
          > is altered. This
          > chord acts as a secondary dominant to D (or VI in
          > the key of F).
          > Now, in F Major, VI is a minor chord (D-F-A). If
          > you wanted to
          > continue working around the circle of 5ths, you
          > could use F# and add
          > a C to make a VIm7. This chord acts as the
          > secondary dominant (or
          > Vm7) of II (D-F#-A-C goes to G-Bb-D). You can
          > substitute the IIm7
          > indicated above (G-B-D-F) and then go to Vm7
          > (C-E-G-Bb) and finally
          > resolve to I (F-A-C).
          >
          > The progression looks like this using numerals, with
          > pitch
          > alterations in parentheses:
          > IIIm7(#3)-VIm7(nat3)-IIm7(nat3)-Vm7-I.
          >
          > If you want it to look less complicated it looks
          > like this: A7-D7-G7-
          > C7-F.
          >
          > As Jay mentioned, the secondary domniant creates a
          > temporary shift in
          > tonality. For that short moment (usually just two
          > or three chords),
          > it's as if you're in a new key. If we go back to
          > the example of the
          > IIm7 chord, it is really acting as the Vm7 in the
          > key of C. But, we
          > don't change key signatures because the trip to the
          > new key is so
          > short. Instead, we just alter the individual
          > pitches chromatically
          > as needed.
          >
          > I hope that this is helpful to you.
          >
          > David Bailey-Aldrich
          > Lead - GNU - Hilltop MN Chapter
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > bbshop-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >


          =====
          Jason I. Boddie

          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
          http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          bbshop-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




          Todd P. Wollin Sr.
          Baritone - Northbrook New Tradition Chorus
          Lead - unnamed quartet (for the moment)

          visit http://www.harmonize.ws/toddsquartet for details

          ---------------------------------
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lynn Trapp
          David, You should get in there and give it a shot. You will learn more by actually doing it than you ever will in a class. I am not a music major, just a
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 31, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            David,
            You should get in there and give it a shot. You will learn more by actually doing it than you ever will in a class. I am not a music major, just a lowly computer programmer, but have taken several arranging classes at Harmony College and mini-hep schools. I got brave a few years ago and entered the Lou Perry Arranging Scholarship contest and, somehow, actually won and got a free trip to Harmony College. I think I may have learned more by taking on that first arrangement than I did in any of the classes I have taken.

            Good luck,
            Lynn Trapp
            Mus & Perf VP, Sioux City, IA chapter

            David Bailey-Aldrich <dbaldrich1@...> wrote:
            --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, Jason Boddie
            wrote:
            > Now this is what the H-net is for. I Love It. And
            > David great explination.
            >
            > I do like using the Lower case letters ( ii7 ) for the
            > minor chords though. It messes me all up when you use
            > the capitals. But that is just me.
            ---------------------------------------------------------

            Thanks Jason. I'm just glad my explanation was clear to someone.

            The first undergraduate program I attended used the upper and lower
            case roman numerals. This past year I had a professor who preferred
            using all upper case roman numerals, showing any deviations from the
            key signature with accidentals or other symbols.

            I found that after a few weeks of getting used to the new system, it
            was actually easier to read than the other system. Not everyone
            agreed. To each their own.

            I've learned a lot about the theory of barbershop from reading the
            Harmonet, although I'm not nearly as brave as Todd, who is actually
            trying his hand at arranging. Good luck Todd (and all you other
            aspiring arrangers).

            David B-A


            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            bbshop-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.