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Re: [bbshop] Re: Judges

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  • Travis Murray
    To Todd s point, though, I believe that Harmony, Inc. does use the same scoring system as SPEBSQSA and quite often does enlist the services of male judges for
    Message 1 of 31 , Apr 1, 2003
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      To Todd's point, though, I believe that Harmony, Inc. does use the same scoring system as SPEBSQSA and quite often does enlist the services of male judges for their contests. SAI is a different story, though. While our judges *do* know good barbershop from bad barbershop, regardless of gender, I think it might take a considerable amount of training for them to accurately assign a score in categories that don't necessarily line up one-for-one with ours.

      Travis Murray
      Lead - The Wanderers
      http://www.the-wanderers.com
      Dixie's Best Kept Secret


      -----Original Message-----

      I tell you what Todd. Why not present this idea to the good ladies
      of Harmony Inc. and Sweet Ad's and see if they like your suggestion.
      I think you will find that there is good reason as to why there are
      two separate women barbershop singing organizations.

      Steve Bangham
      East York Barbershoppers

      --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Wollin, Todd P, SR (Peter)** CTR **"
      <wollin@l...> wrote:
      > Are there any good reasons why we couldn't cross-train SPEBS, SAI,
      and HI
      > judges? So your panel may consist of 3 Men and 3 Women? Or 2 Men
      and 4
      > Women? Or, you get the point. This would seem to help the
      logistics issue.
      > Sure, the categories are different (slightly), but really what are
      we
      > judging? Good BBS sound, presentation, and entertainment.
      Certainly things
      > aren't that different between the Mens and Womens contests. Are
      they?
      >
      > Todd


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    • Joe De Felice
      100% in agreement here.... and the reason is that not all judges will give a perfect score, and odds are great that not all judges within a category will
      Message 31 of 31 , Jul 8, 2009
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        100% in agreement here.... and the reason is that not all judges
        will give a perfect score, and odds are great that not all judges
        within a category will agree in the absolute. At international we have
        3 categories and 5 judges in each. Some of the math guys here
        can tell you the odds of ALL perfect scores. Point being the difference
        is in the details for each performance, each judging opportunity, and as
        always..... the total accumulated score wins.

        Now if someone thinks there is the possibility of "too many" perfect 100's
        let me say that I will buy a ticket to that contest right now, and to parody an
        old saying about something entirely different, I say...... "If she
        ties, she ties".
        It's called a dead heat in other venues.

        ShowGlow Joe
        p.s. as to your teaser.... I believe you set a first impression
        level, hi-med-lo,
        at the outset of a performance and empirically raise or lower from there for
        the entire performance.



        At 7/7/2009 11:24 PM, marty.lovick wrote:



        >Steve .. et al
        >
        >If a "better" presentation had come along .. it would get 100. An
        >analogy that might be appropriate is Mary Lou Retton's 10 in the
        >Olympics many years ago [ or was it the world's?]. Competition
        >continues today and if a gymnastic routine merits 10 it will likely
        >be given to the gymnast how earns it.
        >
        > From the judges perspective, this may be a once in a lifetime
        > experience [ or in Anaheim a twice in a lifetime]. However, we need
        > to remain open to the performances as they appear and be prepared
        > to assign the score we believe most appropriate.
        >
        >BTW - to the posters who seem to believe we start at 100 and deduct
        >as the performance goes along .. I suggest you go on the BHS
        >website and review the C&J Handbook to see how judging is really
        >done. I won't bore you in this post except to say we neither start
        >at zero and add, nor at 100 and subtract.
        >
        >I'll leave you with that tease .. check it out.
        >
        >Marty Lovick
        >Prs Judge
        >Privileged to be able to score the best barbershop contest in 44
        >years of membership
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >--- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, Steve Bangham <steve.bangham@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > And what would the presentation judges have done if a chorus had
        > come out after the Ambassadors with an even better presentation?
        > Not likely but the 100's had already been awarded.
        > >
        > > Steve
        > >
        > > Sent from my iPhone
        > >
        > > On 7-Jul-09, at 6:19 PM, Travis Murray <travis@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Giving higher scores to better performances doesn't necessarily mean that
        > > they are not scoring the performances on their own merit. In fact, that's
        > > the way it *should* turn out, right? And I didn't mean to suggest that a
        > > judge would *consciously* use the reasoning that I offered up, below.
        > >
        > > I definitely agree that the judges should (and do) judge each
        > performance on
        > > its own merit. But I also acknowledge that the judges are human, and are
        > > judging a subjective competition. I think it would be nearly impossible to
        > > prevent some level of comparison from impacting the scores, even if it is
        > > just subconsciously.
        > >
        > > -Travis Murray
        > >
        > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:34 PM, George Moloney <gmoloney@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > > > Travis said:
        > > >
        > > > "Pure speculation here, but perhaps there is a bit more to the story
        > > > behind
        > > > those hundreds, too. Remember, prior to the Ambassadors, the judges had
        > > > already witnessed the highest scoring chorus performance ever. Now,
        > > > imagine
        > > > you were a judge in the pit, and you had given the VM a 98 or 99. And
        > > > then
        > > > the Ambassadors come out and are clearly better. What do you do? Give
        > > > them
        > > > the same score you gave the VM? Would that be fair to anybody? I'm not
        > > > saying that happened, but it certainly could have."
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I thought each performance - chorus or quartet - was judged on its own
        > > > merits and NOT in comparison to others. If the VM or AOH were scheduled
        > > > to compete later in the draw, do the judges "reserve or save" points for
        > > > them? I certainly hope not. They should score what they earn without
        > > > regard to what other competitors were able to accomplish.
        > > >
        > > > Well, at least that's the way I think the scoring should go.
        > > >
        > > > GM
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
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