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Re: Length of meetings

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  • schlesmail
    Good question, John. So far all of my chapters have been your chapter at some point, but organizational dynamics change. North Shore Chapter s announced start
    Message 1 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
      Good question, John.

      So far all of my chapters have been your chapter at some point, but
      organizational dynamics change.

      North Shore Chapter's announced start time for meetings is 7:45 p.m.
      We're lucky if more than three guys show up by that time; usually
      we're stuck with fewer than four parts till 8:00, & it's not unusual
      for stragglers to wander in as late as 8:15. Drives our director
      crazy. Meetings usually end 10-10:05. Break usually starts 9-9:15 &
      is supposed to last for 15 minutes, but getting the guys back to
      their seats for the second half is usually a major production. Oh
      well, at least we don't have a bar on premises, as we did in olden
      times. One plus is that guys are starting to hang around after "Keep
      the Whole World Singing" to do some quartetting & woodshedding. As
      you know, that was one of the great thing about North Shore in its
      heyday, but we lost that tradition during the last 10 years--but I
      think we finally have a good chance of reviving it, tho' all of the
      old-time woodshedders are gone.

      Northbrook rehearsals are structured very similar to the way they
      were when you were a member. We hit the risers to start promptly at
      7:30. Break usually runs from 9:00 to 9:20 or so (including business
      meeting, which is usually very well organized). The guys get a one-
      or two-minute warning before break ends, & tho' they know where
      they're expected to be & when, sometimes it takes a little extra
      persuasion to get everyone back & ready to start the second half.
      Rehearsals usually end promptly at 10:30. Still the fastest three
      hours of the week.

      --Joseph Schlesinger
      zinger99@... (backup: schlesmail@...)
      member Shoreliner Chorus (http://www.nsn.org/evkhome/bflat)
      member New Tradition Chorus (http://www.newtradition.org)
      founder Barbershop Harmony Chicagoland (http://www.bbs.singer.as --
      if that doesn't work for now, try:
      http://www.nsn.org/evhome/bflat/bbschicago.html)
      847/328-0921
    • Marti Lovejoy
      ... If the 7:30 to 10:00 is fun, entertaining and you learn and lot and laugh a lot, why would you want to leave early? So I ask, what s going on for those two
      Message 2 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
        >We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60%
        >of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30%
        >leaving early. As you might imagine, it is driving the director
        >crazy. It has been suggested that one problem is the length of
        >our meetings and the fact we have no formal break. [If a member
        >needs a break, he simply steps off the risers and excuses him-
        >self for a minute.]
        >
        >We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your chapter do?


        If the 7:30 to 10:00 is fun, entertaining and you learn and lot and
        laugh a lot, why would you want to leave early?

        So I ask, what's going on for those two and half hours?


        --
        Marti Lovejoy
        Proud "Owner" of SING: sponsor of a YSF Scholarship in 2002
        Score Collector for SING (and the site below)
        Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA - 30 years so far
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SweetAdelinesScores/messages
        LovejoyMar @ att.net <--remove spaces
      • rogsp10r@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/2/02 5:19:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Yes, this is certainly the key question. Structuring the time to force people into staying
        Message 3 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
          In a message dated 12/2/02 5:19:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          LovejoyMar@... writes:


          >
          > If the 7:30 to 10:00 is fun, entertaining and you learn and lot and
          > laugh a lot, why would you want to leave early?
          >
          > So I ask, what's going on for those two and half hours?

          Yes, this is certainly the key question.

          Structuring the time to "force" people into staying doesn't seem like the
          solution...

          Roger Payne
          approaching 30 years, and I still love this game!!!


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • dsmithjr@mindspring.com
          I have always loved the style of chapter meetings that provide a little variety in the allotted practice time of the chorus. Working with old music, mostly
          Message 4 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
            I have always loved the style of chapter meetings that provide a little
            variety in the allotted practice time of the chorus. Working with old music,
            mostly new (whenever a show is approaching), and a mix of 4teting and whatnot.
            Just like shows, we all don�t want to hear the same thing over and over
            again, so we should have that variety to keep the interest and love of this
            hobby stirring. Heck, even if you have established 4tets within the chorus,
            why not give them some time to sing a few songs (near the end) that maybe the
            members can critique or offer suggestions to help. It would not only include
            the members and make them feel that their opinion does count, it would most
            likely give them the sense of pride to know that their helping out in some
            way.:)

            I dunno, just a suggestion.


            Take care,
            Dan Smith, Jr.
            Singing Judge - ILL
            Asst. Tenor Section Leader - New Tradition
            Tenor - Aces High (2002 ILL District Champions)
            www.harmonize.ws/AcesHigh
            On Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:16:19 -0600 Marti Lovejoy <LovejoyMar@...>
            wrote:

            > >We have been having an attendance problem
            > lately with only 60%
            > >of the members attending meetings and of that
            > group about 30%
            > >leaving early. As you might imagine, it is
            > driving the director
            > >crazy. It has been suggested that one problem
            > is the length of
            > >our meetings and the fact we have no formal
            > break. [If a member
            > >needs a break, he simply steps off the risers
            > and excuses him-
            > >self for a minute.]
            > >
            > >We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your
            > chapter do?
            >
            >
            > If the 7:30 to 10:00 is fun, entertaining and
            > you learn and lot and
            > laugh a lot, why would you want to leave early?
            >
            > So I ask, what's going on for those two and
            > half hours?
            >
            >
            > --
            > Marti Lovejoy
            > Proud "Owner" of SING: sponsor of a YSF
            > Scholarship in 2002
            > Score Collector for SING (and the site below)
            > Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA - 30 years so far
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SweetAdelinesScores/messages
            > LovejoyMar @ att.net
          • Ken Lambert
            We (the VM) generally meet from 7:00 to 10:30. Rookies learning music & choreo meet from 6:00 to 7:00. We do chapter business at our break.
            Message 5 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
              We (the VM) generally meet from 7:00 to 10:30. Rookies learning
              music & choreo meet from 6:00 to 7:00.

              We do chapter business at our break.

              --- In bbshop@y..., John Witmer <witmer@c...> wrote:
              > We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60%
              > of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30%
              > leaving early. As you might imagine, it is driving the director
              > crazy. It has been suggested that one problem is the length of
              > our meetings and the fact we have no formal break. [If a member
              > needs a break, he simply steps off the risers and excuses him-
              > self for a minute.]
              >
              > We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your chapter do?
              >
              > Chordially, John
              > ____________________________________________________________
              > | | |
              > | John Witmer <witmer@c...> | Barbershop Bass |
              > | 111 Rainbow's End | The Upstate Four |
              > | Anderson, SC 29626 | Music Vice President |
              > | Phone (864)375-1510 | Spartanburg Chorus |
              > |____________________________________|_______________________|
            • Steve Currington
              Our chapter is a growing chapter so I guess with a good director and music team etc and having fun we must be doing something right. Our chapter night runs
              Message 6 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
                Our chapter is a growing chapter so I guess with a good director and
                music team etc and having fun we must be doing something right.

                Our chapter night runs from 7:30pm to 10pm.

                We have about 20-30minutes of warm-ups.
                We then normally have a short tag for fun and to finish the warm up
                process. - helps get ears and minds in tune.
                We then work on various repertoire numbers till around 9pm then break
                for about 5-8 minutes for a quick drink - coffee/tea and juice is
                provided free. No alcohol and rarely do we have snacks etc
                Immediately afterwards we have our short meeting and catch up on the
                news etc and get informed about sing-outs etc. This is kept as short
                and fruitful as possible.
                Depending on the weeks chorus singing schedule we then either do more
                work on specific repertoire numbers or do some "fun" activities such as
                polecats, favourite songs, revision of older rep songs, Christmas Carols
                etc.
                We often end up singing again the tag we learned at the beginning before
                our closing Numbers of "Let's get Together Again" and "Keep The Whole
                World Singing"
                Following this frequently we have groups standing around socializing and
                doing tags, polecats song etc etc.


                We do not encourage the guy's the leave the risers during rehearsal
                however no-one really complains when the occasional person does so.


                Steve Currington
                PR Manager
                Harbour Capital Chorus
                Wellington, New Zealand
                -----Original Message-----
                From: John Witmer [mailto:witmer@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, 3 December 2002 9:45 a.m.
                To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [bbshop] Length of meetings

                We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60%
                of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30%
                leaving early. As you might imagine, it is driving the director
                crazy. It has been suggested that one problem is the length of
                our meetings and the fact we have no formal break. [If a member
                needs a break, he simply steps off the risers and excuses him-
                self for a minute.]

                We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your chapter do?

                Chordially, John
                ____________________________________________________________
                | | |
                | John Witmer <witmer@...> | Barbershop Bass |
                | 111 Rainbow's End | The Upstate Four |
                | Anderson, SC 29626 | Music Vice President |
                | Phone (864)375-1510 | Spartanburg Chorus |
                |____________________________________|_______________________|


                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                bbshop-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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              • kkbari
                ... It sounds like time to reevaluate what the chapter membership wants from their barbershop experience. What may attract all currently enrolled members may
                Message 7 of 27 , Dec 3, 2002
                  -- In bbshop@y..., John Witmer <witmer@c...> wrote:
                  > We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60%
                  > of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30%
                  > leaving early. As you might imagine, it is driving the director
                  > crazy. It has been suggested that one problem is the length of
                  > our meetings and the fact we have no formal break. [If a member
                  > needs a break, he simply steps off the risers and excuses him-
                  > self for a minute.]
                  >
                  > We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your chapter do?
                  >
                  > Chordially, John

                  It sounds like time to reevaluate what the chapter membership wants
                  from their barbershop experience. What may attract all currently
                  enrolled members may not continue to attract the director. That's
                  the risk.

                  I had a great learning experience a couple of years ago. I was asked
                  to step in as an interim director with the first chapter I joined 25
                  years ago and direct them through their chapter show. Chapter
                  meeting started at 7:30 and ran until about 10:30 or so. (When I
                  first joined, we started at 8, ended at 11 and closed out a bar or
                  pizza joint.) Now, most of the guys are retired or near retirement
                  age. My portion was from about 7:50-9:45PM (or so) with a break in
                  between. I would usually arrive about 7:25PM and I would be the LAST
                  to arrive. This time in the week was important to them; they weren't
                  late because they wanted to be there. I was the first to leave when
                  my portion was over. They didn't leave because they wanted to be
                  there.

                  If guys aren't showing up regularly, they aren't happy with the
                  meeting. If they are leaving early because they aren't getting what
                  they want out of it, they aren't having fun.

                  There used to be an officer called the PVP. We got rid of that
                  office, but the concept is still valid. Set aside part of the
                  meeting for something different EVERY week besides singing in a
                  chorus. If it is fun and varied, guys will stick around to see what
                  this week brings.

                  Cheers!

                  Kevin Keller
                • John Witmer
                  ... * That s what the rest of the board and I keep asking. We have a varied program with 2 or three quartets, vocal training, and lots of singing. We do have a
                  Message 8 of 27 , Dec 3, 2002
                    At 05:16 PM 12/2/2002, Marti Lovejoy wrote:


                    >If the 7:30 to 10:00 is fun, entertaining and you learn and lot and
                    >laugh a lot, why would you want to leave early? *
                    >So I ask, what's going on for those two and half hours?

                    * That's what the rest of the board and I keep asking. We have
                    a varied program with 2 or three quartets, vocal training, and
                    lots of singing. We do have a very talented and enthusiastic
                    director who tends to wear some people out.

                    John Witmer
                    72 but going on 17
                    ____________________________________________________________
                    | | |
                    | John Witmer <witmer@...> | Barbershop Bass |
                    | 111 Rainbow's End | The Upstate Four |
                    | Anderson, SC 29626 | Music Vice President |
                    | Phone (864)375-1510 | Spartanburg Chorus |
                    |____________________________________|_______________________|
                  • Tara Manini
                    We really have no official break either. If someone needs to take a break they excuse themselves as well. We meet from 7:00-10:00. However, when we are
                    Message 9 of 27 , Dec 3, 2002
                      We really have no official break either. If someone needs to take a break they excuse themselves as well. We meet from 7:00-10:00. However, when we are doing many different things, people tend not to leave as frequently. I think that the content needs to be varied to keep people interested.

                      Tara
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: "John Witmer"<witmer@...>
                      To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Mon Dec 02 12:45:05 PST 2002
                      Subject: [bbshop] Length of meetings

                      >We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60%
                      >of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30%
                      >leaving early. As you might imagine, it is driving the director
                      >crazy. It has been suggested that one problem is the length of
                      >our meetings and the fact we have no formal break. [If a member
                      >needs a break, he simply steps off the risers and excuses him-
                      >self for a minute.]
                      >
                      >We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your chapter do?
                      >
                      >Chordially, John
                      > ____________________________________________________________
                      >| | |
                      >| John Witmer <witmer@...> | Barbershop Bass |
                      >| 111 Rainbow's End | The Upstate Four |
                      >| Anderson, SC 29626 | Music Vice President |
                      >| Phone (864)375-1510 | Spartanburg Chorus |
                      >|____________________________________|_______________________|
                      >
                      >
                      >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >bbshop-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >


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                    • schlesmail
                      One very helpful resource the Society made available to members & chapter administrators is a list of eight components for a successful chapter meeting. I
                      Message 10 of 27 , Dec 3, 2002
                        One very helpful resource the Society made available to members &
                        chapter administrators is a list of eight components for a successful
                        chapter meeting. I forget the precise title, but it was a list of
                        elements that ought to be included in every chapter meeting in order
                        to offer variety. Don't know if it's still available, but the
                        philosophy is still valid.

                        We're very lucky to have so many aids available--from brochures &
                        manuals, to the COTS program, to chapter coaches, to SPEBSQSA staff
                        members who are willing to spend time on the phone to answer specific
                        questions--that can help us make the few hours we spend together a
                        fun-filled experience worth returning to each week.

                        One problem we run into is chapter administrators who view the
                        information passed down from Kenosha & district as "gospel truth"
                        that must be followed by the book. Truth is, no one outside of a
                        chapter has the best idea of how that chapter should be run, & the
                        programs & suggestions that come from Kenosha & district are most
                        valuable when adapted & applied to the individual chapter AS NEEDED,
                        rather than implemented wholesale, chapter traditions & character be
                        damned. Unfortunately, some well-intentioned chapter officers just
                        don't "get it." I've seen chapters ruined that way.

                        The most helpful thing the Society can do for chapters is give their
                        officers as much operational info as possible, but trust--no, URGE--
                        those officers to use their own best judgment.

                        --Joseph Schlesinger
                        zinger99@... (backup: schlesmail@...)
                        member Shoreliner Chorus (http://www.nsn.org/evkhome/bflat)
                        member New Tradition Chorus (http://www.newtradition.org)
                        founder Barbershop Harmony Chicagoland (http://www.bbs.singer.as --
                        if that doesn't work for now, try:
                        http://www.nsn.org/evkhome/bflat/bbschicago.html)
                        847/328-0921
                      • Marti Lovejoy
                        ... I m not so sure variety is totally the key. Fun and a positive atmosphere are both more important. Preparing for contest, for instance, can be a time
                        Message 11 of 27 , Dec 3, 2002
                          Joseph wrote:

                          >One very helpful resource the Society made available to members &
                          >chapter administrators is a list of eight components for a successful
                          >chapter meeting. I forget the precise title, but it was a list of
                          >elements that ought to be included in every chapter meeting in order
                          >to offer variety. Don't know if it's still available, but the
                          >philosophy is still valid.

                          I'm not so sure variety is totally the key. Fun and a positive
                          atmosphere are both more important. Preparing for contest, for
                          instance, can be a time when there really isn't "time" for a lot of
                          variety BUT as long as the hard work leads somewhere (rewarding) and
                          there are laughs allowed (fun) and the necessary criticism (coaching)
                          is provided in a positive light and with lots of strokes and "love" -
                          the rehearsal can still be over in a minute and no one gets bored due
                          to lack of variety!

                          --
                          Marti Lovejoy
                          Proud "Owner" of SING: sponsor of a YSF Scholarship in 2002
                          Score Collector for SING (and the site below)
                          Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA - 30 years so far
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SweetAdelinesScores/messages
                          LovejoyMar @ att.net <--remove spaces
                        • John Elving
                          I don t know which is worse, chapters who think that the information from Kenosha is written on stone tablets and numbered from 1-10, or the chapter who think
                          Message 12 of 27 , Dec 3, 2002
                            I don't know which is worse, chapters who think that the information
                            from Kenosha is written on stone tablets and numbered from 1-10, or the
                            chapter who think that whatever Kenosha passes on is just so much
                            hogwash. Seems to me they are equally wrong. Not everything works for
                            every chapter, true. But every chapter can find something that
                            definitely works for them among the jewels thrown out for the picking
                            up. More often what comes from Kenosha works better than most people
                            think.

                            Sing-cerely & Humm-bly,

                            John Elving mailto:jelving1@...
                            "Shrine of Democracy Chorus"
                            Rapid City, South Dakota


                            -----Original Message-----

                            One problem we run into is chapter administrators who view the
                            information passed down from Kenosha & district as "gospel truth"
                            that must be followed by the book.
                          • djspebs@aol.com
                            In a message dated 12/04/2002 3:03:24 AM, jelving1@rap.midco.net writes:
                            Message 13 of 27 , Dec 4, 2002
                              In a message dated 12/04/2002 3:03:24 AM, jelving1@... writes:

                              << Not everything works for
                              every chapter, true. But every chapter can find something that
                              definitely works for them among the jewels thrown out for the picking
                              up. More often what comes from Kenosha works better than most people
                              think.
                              >>

                              Step #1: Check with your assigned Chapter Counselor.

                              Dick Johnson
                              Great Falls, MT
                            • william ainsworth
                              Our chapter meets from 7:30 p.m. to 10:30 p.m. I personally think that this is a half hour too long and puts a stress on older members and those with physical
                              Message 14 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                Our chapter meets from 7:30 p.m. to 10:30 p.m. I personally think
                                that this is a half hour too long and puts a stress on older members
                                and those with physical disabilities. I also think that a certain
                                amount of mental fatigue can set in and cause a person to practice his
                                mistakes. I am contemplating moving that our chapter limit the meeting
                                to two and a half hours. How long does your chapter meet?
                                Incidentally, three hours would not be so bad if there was variety,
                                such as listening to tags, quartets,etc. so as to give a break from
                                being on the risers. The only trouble is that, with a competition
                                coming up, any time not spent on the risers is considered to be
                                wasted, and there always seems to be a competition or a annual show
                                coming up.
                              • Bill Byrd
                                Some may argue, but I think 3 hours is a mostly great length for a chapter meeting. I believe that the meeting should be a chapter meeting and the rehearsal
                                Message 15 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                  Some may argue, but I think 3 hours is a mostly great length for a chapter
                                  meeting. I believe that the meeting should be a chapter meeting and the
                                  rehearsal should be a part of that event. Limit your rehearsal period to 2.5
                                  hours, but make sure you vary what you are doing, and half an hour of
                                  meeting activities, Quartets, Tags, Stories what have you, it works quite
                                  well. Oh, the meeting segment moves around during the meeting, it's not just
                                  before break, at the beginning or at the end.
                                  Bill Byrd
                                  Norfolk VA



                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Bill Byrd
                                  My intent is to show that the Chapter is more than just the chorus, and the weekly meeting should have room in it for more than just a chorus rehearsal. There
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                    My intent is to show that the Chapter is more than just the chorus, and the
                                    weekly meeting should have room in it for more than just a chorus rehearsal.
                                    There should be social time, and Tag time and Quartet time in each weekly
                                    meeting of the Chapter, The rehearsal is only a part of the meeting. BOD
                                    stuff, and committee stuff happens in their venues, not in the general
                                    chapter meeting.
                                    Bill Byrd

                                    On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:36 PM, <okorth@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > The chapter meeting time should be spent on rehearsal, quarteting, tags,
                                    > breaks.etc.
                                    > Chapter business is conducted by the BOD an brief reports are given to the
                                    > chapter members weekly or whatever.
                                    > Spending chapter time in a meeting is like a committee of 50...or 80...or
                                    > ???...nothing will get done besides arguing.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Otto Korth
                                    > 30 yer member SPEB
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Some may argue, but I think 3 hours is a mostly great length for a
                                    > chapter
                                    > meeting. I believe that the meeting should be a chapter meeting and the
                                    > rehearsal should be a part of that event. Limit your rehearsal period to
                                    > 2.5
                                    > hours, but make sure you vary what you are doing, and half an hour of
                                    > meeting activities, Quartets, Tags, Stories what have you, it works quite
                                    > well. Oh, the meeting segment moves around during the meeting, it's not
                                    > just
                                    > before break, at the beginning or at the end.
                                    > Bill Byrd
                                    > Norfolk VA
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------
                                    > *A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62>
                                    > *
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Alan Gordon
                                    Interesting input and interesting thread... To add a little twist on it (or maybe simplify it), I d suggest the following: EVERY CHAPTER MEETING, IN AND OF
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                      Interesting input and interesting thread...

                                      To add a little twist on it (or maybe simplify it), I'd suggest the
                                      following:

                                      EVERY CHAPTER MEETING, IN AND OF ITSELF, SHOULD BE AN EVENT WORTHY OF
                                      BRINGING JOY EVERY WEEK.

                                      For some chapters, the above may be spending almost all the time on
                                      the risers. For some chapters, it may be not even setting up risers
                                      and doing nothing except quartetting. For many, it is balancing the
                                      extremes, favoring one or the other as the chpater model dictates.

                                      I think where the problem lies for some is not having a clear chapter
                                      model, not knowing exactly the balance that brings people week after
                                      week, and focusing too much on long term planning. We often sit and
                                      plan out the 6-weeks leading up to show and what needs to get learned
                                      and polished, but then don't focus on what to do WITHIN THE EVENING
                                      to make that learning and polishing be a rewarding experience every
                                      WEEK. We lean too heavily on the reward coming with a successful
                                      show.

                                      That doesn't mean we shouldn't compete, shouldn't do shows, etc., but
                                      should just make sure we focus on the weekly events that bring us to
                                      the bigger ones.

                                      Having clear-cut goals for a chapter (and forming a second one if
                                      population allows that fills another set of needs... supporting each
                                      other, of course) may be the biggest thing hurting membership
                                      currently. In the same breath, supporting various types of chapter
                                      models within our own ranks would go far to help this. There is
                                      nothing wrong with a competitive chapter, nor is there anything wrong
                                      with a quartet-only chapter, as long as the two are serving the needs
                                      and wants fo their members.

                                      I think I'll end there before I branch away from the topic at hand.

                                      Alan
                                      gotchabari@...
                                    • Bill Kruse
                                      Bill,   Our Chapter Meeting starts at 7:00 pm and goes to 10:00 pm.  Once a month our Director, who has a Masters in Vocal Production and is a Professional
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                        Bill,
                                         
                                        Our Chapter Meeting starts at 7:00 pm and goes to 10:00 pm.  Once a month our Director, who has a Masters in Vocal Production and is a Professional Opera Singer, gives a group vocal session starting at 6:30 pm.  Maybe once or twice a month the Front Row meets at 6:30 pm.  We try and keep our business meeting/guest introductions down to 10 minutes and the break down to 10 minutes.  The extra 10 minutes is given to the Director and Music Team to work something musical as a program (tag quartet/octet, teach a tag, record a new song for tape learning, creative stuff).  During the 2.5 hours of rehearsal we usually have sectional training which give guys a bit of a break from standing on the risers.  They also get a chance to sit down during the business meeting, an octet performance and a brief sit right after the sectionals.  Our Director is very concentious about having the voice, body and mind able to endure what the feet and knees can bare.  Some
                                        times our Director will just tell everyone to find a new place on the risers, which give us some physical movement and a mind break.  I usually feel that our meetings are too short!
                                         
                                        I feel it may be the time of night that you run your meetings to.  When we went to 10:30 we had several guys leave the meeting after the break because they didn't want to stay until 10:30. Try starting at 7:00 pm and ending at 10:00 pm and it should feel shorter.  We had a slight problem when we shifted from 7:30 to 7:00 pm with getting people there on time.  It's now working just fine.  A few late comers still exist but it seems it's the same guys that were late when we started at 7:30.
                                         
                                        Successful meeting are packed full of singing and fun!

                                        Bill Kruse, District Delegate
                                        Westchester Chordsmen
                                        Freshmen Again!
                                        It's Great To Be A Barbershopper

                                        --- On Tue, 3/3/09, william ainsworth <wainsworth@...> wrote:

                                        From: william ainsworth <wainsworth@...>
                                        Subject: [bbshop] Length of meetings
                                        To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 9:03 AM

                                        Our chapter meets from 7:30 p.m. to 10:30 p.m. I personally think
                                        that this is a half hour too long and puts a stress on older members
                                        and those with physical disabilities. I also think that a certain
                                        amount of mental fatigue can set in and cause a person to practice his
                                        mistakes. I am contemplating moving that our chapter limit the meeting
                                        to two and a half hours. How long does your chapter meet?
                                        Incidentally, three hours would not be so bad if there was variety,
                                        such as listening to tags, quartets,etc. so as to give a break from
                                        being on the risers. The only trouble is that, with a competition
                                        coming up, any time not spent on the risers is considered to be
                                        wasted, and there always seems to be a competition or a annual show
                                        coming up.



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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Richard Frenette
                                        Our chapter (Ottawa, Canada), was experiencing some thinning out of the members after the 9.00 pm break (we rehearse on Monday nights) which provoked a new
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                          Our chapter (Ottawa, Canada), was experiencing some thinning out of the
                                          members after the 9.00 pm break (we rehearse on Monday nights) which
                                          provoked a new idea.

                                          We are now implementing the first part of our chapter meeting from 7:30 to
                                          9:30 pm straight. During that time, we will work our contest stuff,
                                          repertoire and singing skills. All things that make a chorus become better.
                                          Then those who have to leave (for whatever personal reasons), can do so at
                                          9:30 instead of 9:00 as before. That way, the chorus gets more valuable
                                          time to reach its goals.

                                          The rest of the members who stay after the break can split into different
                                          groups to do "fun" stuff like sing some old repertoire, or go to a "tag
                                          room", or do choreo stuff, etc.

                                          We are looking forward to this new trial format and expect to see positive
                                          results.

                                          Rich Tagman :-)

                                          -----Message d'origine-----
                                          De : bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com] De la part de
                                          Bill Byrd
                                          Envoyé : 3 mars 2009 13:21
                                          À : william ainsworth
                                          Cc : bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                                          Objet : Re: [bbshop] Length of meetings

                                          Some may argue, but I think 3 hours is a mostly great length for a chapter
                                          meeting. I believe that the meeting should be a chapter meeting and the
                                          rehearsal should be a part of that event. Limit your rehearsal period to 2.5
                                          hours, but make sure you vary what you are doing, and half an hour of
                                          meeting activities, Quartets, Tags, Stories what have you, it works quite
                                          well. Oh, the meeting segment moves around during the meeting, it's not just
                                          before break, at the beginning or at the end.
                                          Bill Byrd
                                          Norfolk VA



                                          >


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                        • Martha Lovejoy
                                           Not only that, Alan et al, but a meeting should be something that, if missed, is really missed.   They should fill you up in such a way that you hate to
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                             Not only that, Alan et al, but a meeting should be something that, if missed, is really "missed."  They should "fill you up" in such a way that you hate to miss one...
                                            Marti Lovejoy
                                            Proud Owner of SING which raised $9315 for YSF in 2008
                                            Score Collector for SING (and the site below)
                                            Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA - 36 years so far
                                            http: //groups.yahoo . com/group/SweetAdelinesScores
                                            lovejoymar @ sbcglobal.net <--remove spaces from link and edress




                                            ________________________________
                                            From: Alan Gordon <gotchabari@...>
                                            To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 1:06:56 PM
                                            Subject: [bbshop] Re: Length of meetings

                                            Interesting input and interesting thread...

                                            To add a little twist on it (or maybe simplify it), I'd suggest the
                                            following:

                                            EVERY CHAPTER MEETING, IN AND OF ITSELF, SHOULD BE AN EVENT WORTHY OF
                                            BRINGING JOY EVERY WEEK.

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Nick Alexander
                                            How long you rehearse should depend on how much work you have to get done. The VM typically rehearses from 7:00 - 10:30pm with a 15 minute break. As contest
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                              How long you rehearse should depend on how much work you have to get done.
                                              The VM typically rehearses from 7:00 - 10:30pm with a 15 minute break. As
                                              contest approaches we add a choreography rehearsal which starts at 6:00 plus
                                              Saturday workshops. Even though we have a lot of work to do, our rehearsal
                                              are always inspiring, and I can honestly say that in the soon to be 30 years
                                              I've been with the group, there has never been a Thursday night when I
                                              didn't go home feeling better than when I got there! Tired? You bet. But
                                              with a smile on my face!

                                              By the way, this Friday the VM will have the extreme honor of representing
                                              the Barbershop Harmony Society at the American Choral Directors Association
                                              meeting in Oklahoma City. We will be doing a 25 minute set, twice for a
                                              total audience of 3,500 members. They represent the best choral and choir
                                              directors from all across America. We will be promoting the BHS young men in
                                              harmony program and encouraging folks to contact their local chapter or the
                                              society for more info. The key to the survival of our beloved society is
                                              recruiting new folks. We will be sure to wave the banner!!

                                              Nick Alexander, VM MC









                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • David Updegraff
                                              Personally, I don t think The chapter meeting should be . is a phrase that can be concluded by anyone other than the individual chapter. No one formula can
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                                Personally, I don't think "The chapter meeting should be ." is a phrase that
                                                can be concluded by anyone other than the individual chapter. No one
                                                formula can fit all chapters.



                                                We begin our chapter meeting with warm ups at 6:30, and conclude with "Keep
                                                the Whole World Singing" at 9:30 (most everything begins and ends earlier in
                                                Tucson!). We vary the program somewhat, but generally have a total of 30
                                                minutes available for business/announcements, break and brief program. Most
                                                of the chorus rehearsal time, we are on the risers. If we have sectionals,
                                                those are in the chairs. If a guy can't stand on the risers for 2.5 hours,
                                                or for any of that time, he is welcome to bring a chair to the end of the
                                                risers and sit. Anyone who needs a break to sit or go to the bathroom may
                                                do so at any time.



                                                One thing we have initiated since Jeff Dolan joined us almost two years ago
                                                is that there is an expectation that most music will be learned at home on
                                                the members' own, and that sectionals are used to attempt to develop unit
                                                sound and solidify the sound. Paper music is generally not allowed on the
                                                risers, except for guests and very new members.



                                                We continue to be a work in progress, but we are getting better!



                                                David



                                                David R. Updegraff

                                                Vice President, Music and Performance

                                                Tucson Sunshine Chapter

                                                tucson barbershop eXperience chorus





                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Charlie Davenport
                                                Or stated in brief: Long enough so that all the members have fun -- defined by my definition: -- Fun - something you did yesterday that you can t wait to
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Mar 4, 2009
                                                  Or stated in brief: Long enough so that all the members have fun -- defined by my definition: -- "Fun - something you did yesterday that you can't wait to tell someone about today" -

                                                  Charlie Davenport

                                                  --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Gordon" <gotchabari@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Interesting input and interesting thread...
                                                  >
                                                  > To add a little twist on it (or maybe simplify it), I'd suggest the
                                                  > following:
                                                  >
                                                  > EVERY CHAPTER MEETING, IN AND OF ITSELF, SHOULD BE AN EVENT WORTHY OF
                                                  > BRINGING JOY EVERY WEEK.
                                                  >
                                                  > For some chapters, the above may be spending almost all the time on
                                                  > the risers. For some chapters, it may be not even setting up risers
                                                  > and doing nothing except quartetting. For many, it is balancing the
                                                  > extremes, favoring one or the other as the chpater model dictates.
                                                  >
                                                  > I think where the problem lies for some is not having a clear chapter
                                                  > model, not knowing exactly the balance that brings people week after
                                                  > week, and focusing too much on long term planning. We often sit and
                                                  > plan out the 6-weeks leading up to show and what needs to get learned
                                                  > and polished, but then don't focus on what to do WITHIN THE EVENING
                                                  > to make that learning and polishing be a rewarding experience every
                                                  > WEEK. We lean too heavily on the reward coming with a successful
                                                  > show.
                                                  >
                                                  > That doesn't mean we shouldn't compete, shouldn't do shows, etc., but
                                                  > should just make sure we focus on the weekly events that bring us to
                                                  > the bigger ones.
                                                  >
                                                  > Having clear-cut goals for a chapter (and forming a second one if
                                                  > population allows that fills another set of needs... supporting each
                                                  > other, of course) may be the biggest thing hurting membership
                                                  > currently. In the same breath, supporting various types of chapter
                                                  > models within our own ranks would go far to help this. There is
                                                  > nothing wrong with a competitive chapter, nor is there anything wrong
                                                  > with a quartet-only chapter, as long as the two are serving the needs
                                                  > and wants fo their members.
                                                  >
                                                  > I think I'll end there before I branch away from the topic at hand.
                                                  >
                                                  > Alan
                                                  > gotchabari@...
                                                  >
                                                • ENau@comcast.net
                                                  When discussing length of chapter meetings, perhaps some additional perspective is needed to understand the subtle changes that have occurred during the first
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Mar 4, 2009
                                                    When discussing length of chapter meetings, perhaps some additional perspective is needed to understand the subtle changes that have occurred during the first 70 years of the Society.



                                                    During the early years of the Society and probably leading into the late 1950s, chapter meetings were viewed by the members as arrival points, places to go each week to have a great time . . . singing with friends in quartets, enjoying the camaraderie and doing a lot of gang-singing that eventually led to chorus development. The point was not what they sang or how they sang it so much as it was the fact that each weekly event was something to be anticipated because each member knew he was going to be rewarded with a good time, fun, whatever we want to call it.



                                                    As the Society developed, the chapter meetings became more a time of preparation . . . getting ready for the next show, sing-out, performance, contest etc. The time was spent more on learning craft, developing skills, etc., than it was on providing the fulfillment to the members that the old meetings had. Now, to receive the same level of fulfillment, a chapter member would not only need to attend a chapter meeting, but another event to get what he used to get just at the chapter meeting. More involvement, more commitment, and more time away from home with some attendant additional expense. I don't believe anyone ever really rebels against learning to be better at his singing avocation, but he balks at the extra commitment he now must make to get what he used to get at a chapter meeting by itself.



                                                    The BQPA and other so-called KIBBER groups have some valid points about what constitutes a good chapter meeting. All work and no play can be tedium at best, especially for old legs, old eyes and old ears.



                                                    To me, the task before us is to find ways to provide a weekly experience that will offer the hard-core competitive types and the more hobbyist-centered members a chance to walk away saying, "Wow! I can't wait for next week!" That is largely what Charlie Davenport uses as a basis for his "fun" definition. That is also something that will vary from chapter to chapter.



                                                    Perhaps we need to bring back some of our lost traditions. I remember mystery bus rides from Concord, Mass. to Livingston, NJ and the absolute great times everyone had. Interchapter meetings and the chance to show off a little -- e.g., the Beverly Bash every April 11. JAD used to celebrate the Sour Apple by showing up at a chapter and delivering a little goodie to the host, whose responsibility then became to move it along. In addition, the little extras where singing and fellowship were further fostered included the Bates Beach Bash, Alton Bay, Block Island weekend, etc. for me. I'm sure any member with more than 20 years in the Spociety can name other such events (Middle Bass, etc.)



                                                    I make no accusations nor do I profess to have the only way to solve any problems. But, I do know that the constant rush to be better and better often takes its toll on membership who are looking to immerse themselves on a weekly basis in this thing we call barbershop. That may be handled as easily as providing 15-20 minutes each night where the chorus sings through entire songs without being stopped for correction. It might be a quartet program, and you need to see what happens in Nashville to understand how much fun and encouraging it can be. It may include using the 5th meeting night of a month as a quartet night. Whatever it may be, it must be something that will allow a preponderence of members to again look forward to "can't miss" activities provided only by a chapter meeting. When that happens, we will be preserving an important part of our heritage.



                                                    I have no bone to pick with any chapter that wants to "work hard." I only ask that we not forget to play as hard, too, for if we don't, I believe we will winnow down eventually to a group of near-professional singers who will have no room for men who love to sing . . . and they still outnumber the rest and deserve a chance to be educated while creating memorable moments of their own. Nothing against singing a perfect "E" vowel, but give me the chance to sing some "stuff" with the guys on XXXXX night, and I'm in for the whole load.



                                                    Isn't it interesting to note that some of our most revered leaders of the past did just that, yet still managed to impart a lot of musical education and preparation for great shows away from the chapter meeting. (Can you say "Earl Moon?") Yet, the chapter meeting was the place everyone went to scratch his barbershop itch. It seems to me that we just don't see that much any more, and I wonder if we did, would the bickering stop and the fun begin again?



                                                    Ev Nau

                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • jetriple@rockwellcollins.com
                                                    Ev - What a spectacular post! I actually left a chorus one time because we were always getting ready for something, and never doing something. I have the good
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Mar 4, 2009
                                                      Ev - What a spectacular post! I actually left a chorus one time because
                                                      we were always getting ready for something, and never doing something.

                                                      I have the good fortune now to be in a group that operates in two
                                                      different fashions.

                                                      A small group of us meet every Thursday and have a blast singing. We
                                                      always have all the parts, because many of us can sing two different ones,
                                                      and some even three. It's a jam-session for singers, with the goal of
                                                      ringing the snot out of some cool songs! Sure we try and improve, and
                                                      memorize stuff, and we did sing over 30 Singing Valentines, but the
                                                      rehearsal itself is the payoff.

                                                      The other facet of the chapter is a competition based group. We meet on
                                                      Saturdays, but only every three or four weeks. Music is learned at home.
                                                      We stand on the risers the whole rehearsal, bring in coaches, and work on
                                                      getting ready for contest. This group is comprised of most of the
                                                      Thursday night guys, and then a bunch of dual members from surrounding
                                                      chapters. It's hard work, and the focus is on getting better every time.

                                                      I love both of these groups, and love both types of rehearsals, and feel
                                                      extremely lucky to be associated with all these guys.

                                                      Best Regards...

                                                      James Triplett
                                                      Twenty-First Century Vocals - Chorus
                                                      Linn County Metro (Iowa) - Chapter



                                                      bbshop@yahoogroups.com wrote on 03/04/2009 08:52:08 AM:

                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > When discussing length of chapter meetings, perhaps some additional
                                                      > perspective is needed to understand the subtle changes that have
                                                      > occurred during the first 70 years of the Society.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > During the early years of the Society and probably leading into the
                                                      > late 1950s, chapter meetings were viewed by the members as arrival
                                                      > points, places to go each week to have a great time . . . singing
                                                      > with friends in quartets, enjoying the camaraderie and doing a lot
                                                      > of gang-singing that eventually led to chorus development. The point
                                                      > was not what they sang or how they sang it so much as it was the
                                                      > fact that each weekly event was something to be anticipated because
                                                      > each member knew he was going to be rewarded with a good time, fun,
                                                      > whatever we want to call it.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > As the Society developed, the chapter meetings became more a time of
                                                      > preparation . . . getting ready for the next show, sing-out,
                                                      > performance, contest etc. The time was spent more on learning craft,
                                                      > developing skills, etc., than it was on providing the fulfillment to
                                                      > the members that the old meetings had. Now, to receive the same
                                                      > level of fulfillment, a chapter member would not only need to attend
                                                      > a chapter meeting, but another event to get what he used to get just
                                                      > at the chapter meeting. More involvement, more commitment, and more
                                                      > time away from home with some attendant additional expense. I don't
                                                      > believe anyone ever really rebels against learning to be better at
                                                      > his singing avocation, but he balks at the extra commitment he now
                                                      > must make to get what he used to get at a chapter meeting by itself.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > The BQPA and other so-called KIBBER groups have some valid points
                                                      > about what constitutes a good chapter meeting. All work and no play
                                                      > can be tedium at best, especially for old legs, old eyes and old ears.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > To me, the task before us is to find ways to provide a weekly
                                                      > experience that will offer the hard-core competitive types and the
                                                      > more hobbyist-centered members a chance to walk away saying, "Wow! I
                                                      > can't wait for next week!" That is largely what Charlie Davenport
                                                      > uses as a basis for his "fun" definition. That is also something
                                                      > that will vary from chapter to chapter.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Perhaps we need to bring back some of our lost traditions. I
                                                      > remember mystery bus rides from Concord, Mass. to Livingston, NJ and
                                                      > the absolute great times everyone had. Interchapter meetings and the
                                                      > chance to show off a little -- e.g., the Beverly Bash every April
                                                      > 11. JAD used to celebrate the Sour Apple by showing up at a chapter
                                                      > and delivering a little goodie to the host, whose responsibility
                                                      > then became to move it along. In addition, the little extras where
                                                      > singing and fellowship were further fostered included the Bates
                                                      > Beach Bash, Alton Bay, Block Island weekend, etc. for me. I'm sure
                                                      > any member with more than 20 years in the Spociety can name other
                                                      > such events (Middle Bass, etc.)
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I make no accusations nor do I profess to have the only way to solve
                                                      > any problems. But, I do know that the constant rush to be better and
                                                      > better often takes its toll on membership who are looking to immerse
                                                      > themselves on a weekly basis in this thing we call barbershop. That
                                                      > may be handled as easily as providing 15-20 minutes each night where
                                                      > the chorus sings through entire songs without being stopped for
                                                      > correction. It might be a quartet program, and you need to see what
                                                      > happens in Nashville to understand how much fun and encouraging it
                                                      > can be. It may include using the 5th meeting night of a month as a
                                                      > quartet night. Whatever it may be, it must be something that will
                                                      > allow a preponderence of members to again look forward to "can't
                                                      > miss" activities provided only by a chapter meeting. When that
                                                      > happens, we will be preserving an important part of our heritage.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I have no bone to pick with any chapter that wants to "work hard." I
                                                      > only ask that we not forget to play as hard, too, for if we don't, I
                                                      > believe we will winnow down eventually to a group of near-
                                                      > professional singers who will have no room for men who love to sing
                                                      > . . . and they still outnumber the rest and deserve a chance to be
                                                      > educated while creating memorable moments of their own. Nothing
                                                      > against singing a perfect "E" vowel, but give me the chance to sing
                                                      > some "stuff" with the guys on XXXXX night, and I'm in for the whole
                                                      load.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Isn't it interesting to note that some of our most revered leaders
                                                      > of the past did just that, yet still managed to impart a lot of
                                                      > musical education and preparation for great shows away from the
                                                      > chapter meeting. (Can you say "Earl Moon?") Yet, the chapter meeting
                                                      > was the place everyone went to scratch his barbershop itch. It seems
                                                      > to me that we just don't see that much any more, and I wonder if we
                                                      > did, would the bickering stop and the fun begin again?
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Ev Nau
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ------------------------------------
                                                      >
                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >


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