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Length of meetings

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  • John Witmer
    We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60% of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30% leaving early. As you might
    Message 1 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
      We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60%
      of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30%
      leaving early. As you might imagine, it is driving the director
      crazy. It has been suggested that one problem is the length of
      our meetings and the fact we have no formal break. [If a member
      needs a break, he simply steps off the risers and excuses him-
      self for a minute.]

      We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your chapter do?

      Chordially, John
      ____________________________________________________________
      | | |
      | John Witmer <witmer@...> | Barbershop Bass |
      | 111 Rainbow's End | The Upstate Four |
      | Anderson, SC 29626 | Music Vice President |
      | Phone (864)375-1510 | Spartanburg Chorus |
      |____________________________________|_______________________|
    • Schleier, Tom @ ACSSD
      Hi John, The Phoenicians rehearsals go from 6:45 for warmup to 9:30 (or later). After that is quartet activities or Phour By Phour ensemble practice. We also
      Message 2 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
        Hi John,

        The Phoenicians' rehearsals go from 6:45 for warmup to 9:30 (or later).
        After that is quartet activities or Phour By Phour ensemble practice.
        We also don't have a formal break. About 8:45 or so we have a business
        meeting where all the members sit down, but we don't have a "break". We
        used to have a break, and about 30% of our risers standers would leave after
        that break. We took out the break, and have more members in it for the long
        haul. We still have some people who leave at a set time due to work
        schedules, etc., but they are in the minority.

        Best of luck to you.

        Tom Schleier
        Bari; Phoenicians, Phour X Phour, Allegro (sorted by size)
        tom.schleier@acssd.L-3com.com
        Disclaimer: This e-mail message or post, including any attachments, is for
        the sole purpose of expressing my personal views, opinions, statements, and
        observations, regardless of how crazy or how sound they may seem. While I am
        a member of The Phoenicians Chorus, Phour By Phour, and Allegro and others
        may agree, or disagree, with me, I do not represent the views, opinions,
        statements, and observations of The Phoenicians Chorus, Phour By Phour, or
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        -----Original Message-----
        From: John Witmer [mailto:witmer@...]
        Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 1:45 PM
        To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [bbshop] Length of meetings


        We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60%
        of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30%
        leaving early. As you might imagine, it is driving the director
        crazy. It has been suggested that one problem is the length of
        our meetings and the fact we have no formal break. [If a member
        needs a break, he simply steps off the risers and excuses him-
        self for a minute.]

        We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your chapter do?

        Chordially, John
        ____________________________________________________________
        | | |
        | John Witmer <witmer@...> | Barbershop Bass |
        | 111 Rainbow's End | The Upstate Four |
        | Anderson, SC 29626 | Music Vice President |
        | Phone (864)375-1510 | Spartanburg Chorus |
        |____________________________________|_______________________|


        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        bbshop-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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      • schlesmail
        Good question, John. So far all of my chapters have been your chapter at some point, but organizational dynamics change. North Shore Chapter s announced start
        Message 3 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
          Good question, John.

          So far all of my chapters have been your chapter at some point, but
          organizational dynamics change.

          North Shore Chapter's announced start time for meetings is 7:45 p.m.
          We're lucky if more than three guys show up by that time; usually
          we're stuck with fewer than four parts till 8:00, & it's not unusual
          for stragglers to wander in as late as 8:15. Drives our director
          crazy. Meetings usually end 10-10:05. Break usually starts 9-9:15 &
          is supposed to last for 15 minutes, but getting the guys back to
          their seats for the second half is usually a major production. Oh
          well, at least we don't have a bar on premises, as we did in olden
          times. One plus is that guys are starting to hang around after "Keep
          the Whole World Singing" to do some quartetting & woodshedding. As
          you know, that was one of the great thing about North Shore in its
          heyday, but we lost that tradition during the last 10 years--but I
          think we finally have a good chance of reviving it, tho' all of the
          old-time woodshedders are gone.

          Northbrook rehearsals are structured very similar to the way they
          were when you were a member. We hit the risers to start promptly at
          7:30. Break usually runs from 9:00 to 9:20 or so (including business
          meeting, which is usually very well organized). The guys get a one-
          or two-minute warning before break ends, & tho' they know where
          they're expected to be & when, sometimes it takes a little extra
          persuasion to get everyone back & ready to start the second half.
          Rehearsals usually end promptly at 10:30. Still the fastest three
          hours of the week.

          --Joseph Schlesinger
          zinger99@... (backup: schlesmail@...)
          member Shoreliner Chorus (http://www.nsn.org/evkhome/bflat)
          member New Tradition Chorus (http://www.newtradition.org)
          founder Barbershop Harmony Chicagoland (http://www.bbs.singer.as --
          if that doesn't work for now, try:
          http://www.nsn.org/evhome/bflat/bbschicago.html)
          847/328-0921
        • Marti Lovejoy
          ... If the 7:30 to 10:00 is fun, entertaining and you learn and lot and laugh a lot, why would you want to leave early? So I ask, what s going on for those two
          Message 4 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
            >We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60%
            >of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30%
            >leaving early. As you might imagine, it is driving the director
            >crazy. It has been suggested that one problem is the length of
            >our meetings and the fact we have no formal break. [If a member
            >needs a break, he simply steps off the risers and excuses him-
            >self for a minute.]
            >
            >We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your chapter do?


            If the 7:30 to 10:00 is fun, entertaining and you learn and lot and
            laugh a lot, why would you want to leave early?

            So I ask, what's going on for those two and half hours?


            --
            Marti Lovejoy
            Proud "Owner" of SING: sponsor of a YSF Scholarship in 2002
            Score Collector for SING (and the site below)
            Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA - 30 years so far
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SweetAdelinesScores/messages
            LovejoyMar @ att.net <--remove spaces
          • rogsp10r@aol.com
            In a message dated 12/2/02 5:19:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Yes, this is certainly the key question. Structuring the time to force people into staying
            Message 5 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
              In a message dated 12/2/02 5:19:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              LovejoyMar@... writes:


              >
              > If the 7:30 to 10:00 is fun, entertaining and you learn and lot and
              > laugh a lot, why would you want to leave early?
              >
              > So I ask, what's going on for those two and half hours?

              Yes, this is certainly the key question.

              Structuring the time to "force" people into staying doesn't seem like the
              solution...

              Roger Payne
              approaching 30 years, and I still love this game!!!


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dsmithjr@mindspring.com
              I have always loved the style of chapter meetings that provide a little variety in the allotted practice time of the chorus. Working with old music, mostly
              Message 6 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
                I have always loved the style of chapter meetings that provide a little
                variety in the allotted practice time of the chorus. Working with old music,
                mostly new (whenever a show is approaching), and a mix of 4teting and whatnot.
                Just like shows, we all don�t want to hear the same thing over and over
                again, so we should have that variety to keep the interest and love of this
                hobby stirring. Heck, even if you have established 4tets within the chorus,
                why not give them some time to sing a few songs (near the end) that maybe the
                members can critique or offer suggestions to help. It would not only include
                the members and make them feel that their opinion does count, it would most
                likely give them the sense of pride to know that their helping out in some
                way.:)

                I dunno, just a suggestion.


                Take care,
                Dan Smith, Jr.
                Singing Judge - ILL
                Asst. Tenor Section Leader - New Tradition
                Tenor - Aces High (2002 ILL District Champions)
                www.harmonize.ws/AcesHigh
                On Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:16:19 -0600 Marti Lovejoy <LovejoyMar@...>
                wrote:

                > >We have been having an attendance problem
                > lately with only 60%
                > >of the members attending meetings and of that
                > group about 30%
                > >leaving early. As you might imagine, it is
                > driving the director
                > >crazy. It has been suggested that one problem
                > is the length of
                > >our meetings and the fact we have no formal
                > break. [If a member
                > >needs a break, he simply steps off the risers
                > and excuses him-
                > >self for a minute.]
                > >
                > >We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your
                > chapter do?
                >
                >
                > If the 7:30 to 10:00 is fun, entertaining and
                > you learn and lot and
                > laugh a lot, why would you want to leave early?
                >
                > So I ask, what's going on for those two and
                > half hours?
                >
                >
                > --
                > Marti Lovejoy
                > Proud "Owner" of SING: sponsor of a YSF
                > Scholarship in 2002
                > Score Collector for SING (and the site below)
                > Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA - 30 years so far
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SweetAdelinesScores/messages
                > LovejoyMar @ att.net
              • Ken Lambert
                We (the VM) generally meet from 7:00 to 10:30. Rookies learning music & choreo meet from 6:00 to 7:00. We do chapter business at our break.
                Message 7 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
                  We (the VM) generally meet from 7:00 to 10:30. Rookies learning
                  music & choreo meet from 6:00 to 7:00.

                  We do chapter business at our break.

                  --- In bbshop@y..., John Witmer <witmer@c...> wrote:
                  > We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60%
                  > of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30%
                  > leaving early. As you might imagine, it is driving the director
                  > crazy. It has been suggested that one problem is the length of
                  > our meetings and the fact we have no formal break. [If a member
                  > needs a break, he simply steps off the risers and excuses him-
                  > self for a minute.]
                  >
                  > We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your chapter do?
                  >
                  > Chordially, John
                  > ____________________________________________________________
                  > | | |
                  > | John Witmer <witmer@c...> | Barbershop Bass |
                  > | 111 Rainbow's End | The Upstate Four |
                  > | Anderson, SC 29626 | Music Vice President |
                  > | Phone (864)375-1510 | Spartanburg Chorus |
                  > |____________________________________|_______________________|
                • Steve Currington
                  Our chapter is a growing chapter so I guess with a good director and music team etc and having fun we must be doing something right. Our chapter night runs
                  Message 8 of 27 , Dec 2, 2002
                    Our chapter is a growing chapter so I guess with a good director and
                    music team etc and having fun we must be doing something right.

                    Our chapter night runs from 7:30pm to 10pm.

                    We have about 20-30minutes of warm-ups.
                    We then normally have a short tag for fun and to finish the warm up
                    process. - helps get ears and minds in tune.
                    We then work on various repertoire numbers till around 9pm then break
                    for about 5-8 minutes for a quick drink - coffee/tea and juice is
                    provided free. No alcohol and rarely do we have snacks etc
                    Immediately afterwards we have our short meeting and catch up on the
                    news etc and get informed about sing-outs etc. This is kept as short
                    and fruitful as possible.
                    Depending on the weeks chorus singing schedule we then either do more
                    work on specific repertoire numbers or do some "fun" activities such as
                    polecats, favourite songs, revision of older rep songs, Christmas Carols
                    etc.
                    We often end up singing again the tag we learned at the beginning before
                    our closing Numbers of "Let's get Together Again" and "Keep The Whole
                    World Singing"
                    Following this frequently we have groups standing around socializing and
                    doing tags, polecats song etc etc.


                    We do not encourage the guy's the leave the risers during rehearsal
                    however no-one really complains when the occasional person does so.


                    Steve Currington
                    PR Manager
                    Harbour Capital Chorus
                    Wellington, New Zealand
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: John Witmer [mailto:witmer@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, 3 December 2002 9:45 a.m.
                    To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [bbshop] Length of meetings

                    We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60%
                    of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30%
                    leaving early. As you might imagine, it is driving the director
                    crazy. It has been suggested that one problem is the length of
                    our meetings and the fact we have no formal break. [If a member
                    needs a break, he simply steps off the risers and excuses him-
                    self for a minute.]

                    We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your chapter do?

                    Chordially, John
                    ____________________________________________________________
                    | | |
                    | John Witmer <witmer@...> | Barbershop Bass |
                    | 111 Rainbow's End | The Upstate Four |
                    | Anderson, SC 29626 | Music Vice President |
                    | Phone (864)375-1510 | Spartanburg Chorus |
                    |____________________________________|_______________________|


                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    bbshop-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • kkbari
                    ... It sounds like time to reevaluate what the chapter membership wants from their barbershop experience. What may attract all currently enrolled members may
                    Message 9 of 27 , Dec 3, 2002
                      -- In bbshop@y..., John Witmer <witmer@c...> wrote:
                      > We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60%
                      > of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30%
                      > leaving early. As you might imagine, it is driving the director
                      > crazy. It has been suggested that one problem is the length of
                      > our meetings and the fact we have no formal break. [If a member
                      > needs a break, he simply steps off the risers and excuses him-
                      > self for a minute.]
                      >
                      > We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your chapter do?
                      >
                      > Chordially, John

                      It sounds like time to reevaluate what the chapter membership wants
                      from their barbershop experience. What may attract all currently
                      enrolled members may not continue to attract the director. That's
                      the risk.

                      I had a great learning experience a couple of years ago. I was asked
                      to step in as an interim director with the first chapter I joined 25
                      years ago and direct them through their chapter show. Chapter
                      meeting started at 7:30 and ran until about 10:30 or so. (When I
                      first joined, we started at 8, ended at 11 and closed out a bar or
                      pizza joint.) Now, most of the guys are retired or near retirement
                      age. My portion was from about 7:50-9:45PM (or so) with a break in
                      between. I would usually arrive about 7:25PM and I would be the LAST
                      to arrive. This time in the week was important to them; they weren't
                      late because they wanted to be there. I was the first to leave when
                      my portion was over. They didn't leave because they wanted to be
                      there.

                      If guys aren't showing up regularly, they aren't happy with the
                      meeting. If they are leaving early because they aren't getting what
                      they want out of it, they aren't having fun.

                      There used to be an officer called the PVP. We got rid of that
                      office, but the concept is still valid. Set aside part of the
                      meeting for something different EVERY week besides singing in a
                      chorus. If it is fun and varied, guys will stick around to see what
                      this week brings.

                      Cheers!

                      Kevin Keller
                    • John Witmer
                      ... * That s what the rest of the board and I keep asking. We have a varied program with 2 or three quartets, vocal training, and lots of singing. We do have a
                      Message 10 of 27 , Dec 3, 2002
                        At 05:16 PM 12/2/2002, Marti Lovejoy wrote:


                        >If the 7:30 to 10:00 is fun, entertaining and you learn and lot and
                        >laugh a lot, why would you want to leave early? *
                        >So I ask, what's going on for those two and half hours?

                        * That's what the rest of the board and I keep asking. We have
                        a varied program with 2 or three quartets, vocal training, and
                        lots of singing. We do have a very talented and enthusiastic
                        director who tends to wear some people out.

                        John Witmer
                        72 but going on 17
                        ____________________________________________________________
                        | | |
                        | John Witmer <witmer@...> | Barbershop Bass |
                        | 111 Rainbow's End | The Upstate Four |
                        | Anderson, SC 29626 | Music Vice President |
                        | Phone (864)375-1510 | Spartanburg Chorus |
                        |____________________________________|_______________________|
                      • Tara Manini
                        We really have no official break either. If someone needs to take a break they excuse themselves as well. We meet from 7:00-10:00. However, when we are
                        Message 11 of 27 , Dec 3, 2002
                          We really have no official break either. If someone needs to take a break they excuse themselves as well. We meet from 7:00-10:00. However, when we are doing many different things, people tend not to leave as frequently. I think that the content needs to be varied to keep people interested.

                          Tara
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: "John Witmer"<witmer@...>
                          To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Mon Dec 02 12:45:05 PST 2002
                          Subject: [bbshop] Length of meetings

                          >We have been having an attendance problem lately with only 60%
                          >of the members attending meetings and of that group about 30%
                          >leaving early. As you might imagine, it is driving the director
                          >crazy. It has been suggested that one problem is the length of
                          >our meetings and the fact we have no formal break. [If a member
                          >needs a break, he simply steps off the risers and excuses him-
                          >self for a minute.]
                          >
                          >We meet from 7:30 to 10:00. What does your chapter do?
                          >
                          >Chordially, John
                          > ____________________________________________________________
                          >| | |
                          >| John Witmer <witmer@...> | Barbershop Bass |
                          >| 111 Rainbow's End | The Upstate Four |
                          >| Anderson, SC 29626 | Music Vice President |
                          >| Phone (864)375-1510 | Spartanburg Chorus |
                          >|____________________________________|_______________________|
                          >
                          >
                          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          >bbshop-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >


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                        • schlesmail
                          One very helpful resource the Society made available to members & chapter administrators is a list of eight components for a successful chapter meeting. I
                          Message 12 of 27 , Dec 3, 2002
                            One very helpful resource the Society made available to members &
                            chapter administrators is a list of eight components for a successful
                            chapter meeting. I forget the precise title, but it was a list of
                            elements that ought to be included in every chapter meeting in order
                            to offer variety. Don't know if it's still available, but the
                            philosophy is still valid.

                            We're very lucky to have so many aids available--from brochures &
                            manuals, to the COTS program, to chapter coaches, to SPEBSQSA staff
                            members who are willing to spend time on the phone to answer specific
                            questions--that can help us make the few hours we spend together a
                            fun-filled experience worth returning to each week.

                            One problem we run into is chapter administrators who view the
                            information passed down from Kenosha & district as "gospel truth"
                            that must be followed by the book. Truth is, no one outside of a
                            chapter has the best idea of how that chapter should be run, & the
                            programs & suggestions that come from Kenosha & district are most
                            valuable when adapted & applied to the individual chapter AS NEEDED,
                            rather than implemented wholesale, chapter traditions & character be
                            damned. Unfortunately, some well-intentioned chapter officers just
                            don't "get it." I've seen chapters ruined that way.

                            The most helpful thing the Society can do for chapters is give their
                            officers as much operational info as possible, but trust--no, URGE--
                            those officers to use their own best judgment.

                            --Joseph Schlesinger
                            zinger99@... (backup: schlesmail@...)
                            member Shoreliner Chorus (http://www.nsn.org/evkhome/bflat)
                            member New Tradition Chorus (http://www.newtradition.org)
                            founder Barbershop Harmony Chicagoland (http://www.bbs.singer.as --
                            if that doesn't work for now, try:
                            http://www.nsn.org/evkhome/bflat/bbschicago.html)
                            847/328-0921
                          • Marti Lovejoy
                            ... I m not so sure variety is totally the key. Fun and a positive atmosphere are both more important. Preparing for contest, for instance, can be a time
                            Message 13 of 27 , Dec 3, 2002
                              Joseph wrote:

                              >One very helpful resource the Society made available to members &
                              >chapter administrators is a list of eight components for a successful
                              >chapter meeting. I forget the precise title, but it was a list of
                              >elements that ought to be included in every chapter meeting in order
                              >to offer variety. Don't know if it's still available, but the
                              >philosophy is still valid.

                              I'm not so sure variety is totally the key. Fun and a positive
                              atmosphere are both more important. Preparing for contest, for
                              instance, can be a time when there really isn't "time" for a lot of
                              variety BUT as long as the hard work leads somewhere (rewarding) and
                              there are laughs allowed (fun) and the necessary criticism (coaching)
                              is provided in a positive light and with lots of strokes and "love" -
                              the rehearsal can still be over in a minute and no one gets bored due
                              to lack of variety!

                              --
                              Marti Lovejoy
                              Proud "Owner" of SING: sponsor of a YSF Scholarship in 2002
                              Score Collector for SING (and the site below)
                              Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA - 30 years so far
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SweetAdelinesScores/messages
                              LovejoyMar @ att.net <--remove spaces
                            • John Elving
                              I don t know which is worse, chapters who think that the information from Kenosha is written on stone tablets and numbered from 1-10, or the chapter who think
                              Message 14 of 27 , Dec 3, 2002
                                I don't know which is worse, chapters who think that the information
                                from Kenosha is written on stone tablets and numbered from 1-10, or the
                                chapter who think that whatever Kenosha passes on is just so much
                                hogwash. Seems to me they are equally wrong. Not everything works for
                                every chapter, true. But every chapter can find something that
                                definitely works for them among the jewels thrown out for the picking
                                up. More often what comes from Kenosha works better than most people
                                think.

                                Sing-cerely & Humm-bly,

                                John Elving mailto:jelving1@...
                                "Shrine of Democracy Chorus"
                                Rapid City, South Dakota


                                -----Original Message-----

                                One problem we run into is chapter administrators who view the
                                information passed down from Kenosha & district as "gospel truth"
                                that must be followed by the book.
                              • djspebs@aol.com
                                In a message dated 12/04/2002 3:03:24 AM, jelving1@rap.midco.net writes:
                                Message 15 of 27 , Dec 4, 2002
                                  In a message dated 12/04/2002 3:03:24 AM, jelving1@... writes:

                                  << Not everything works for
                                  every chapter, true. But every chapter can find something that
                                  definitely works for them among the jewels thrown out for the picking
                                  up. More often what comes from Kenosha works better than most people
                                  think.
                                  >>

                                  Step #1: Check with your assigned Chapter Counselor.

                                  Dick Johnson
                                  Great Falls, MT
                                • william ainsworth
                                  Our chapter meets from 7:30 p.m. to 10:30 p.m. I personally think that this is a half hour too long and puts a stress on older members and those with physical
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                    Our chapter meets from 7:30 p.m. to 10:30 p.m. I personally think
                                    that this is a half hour too long and puts a stress on older members
                                    and those with physical disabilities. I also think that a certain
                                    amount of mental fatigue can set in and cause a person to practice his
                                    mistakes. I am contemplating moving that our chapter limit the meeting
                                    to two and a half hours. How long does your chapter meet?
                                    Incidentally, three hours would not be so bad if there was variety,
                                    such as listening to tags, quartets,etc. so as to give a break from
                                    being on the risers. The only trouble is that, with a competition
                                    coming up, any time not spent on the risers is considered to be
                                    wasted, and there always seems to be a competition or a annual show
                                    coming up.
                                  • Bill Byrd
                                    Some may argue, but I think 3 hours is a mostly great length for a chapter meeting. I believe that the meeting should be a chapter meeting and the rehearsal
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                      Some may argue, but I think 3 hours is a mostly great length for a chapter
                                      meeting. I believe that the meeting should be a chapter meeting and the
                                      rehearsal should be a part of that event. Limit your rehearsal period to 2.5
                                      hours, but make sure you vary what you are doing, and half an hour of
                                      meeting activities, Quartets, Tags, Stories what have you, it works quite
                                      well. Oh, the meeting segment moves around during the meeting, it's not just
                                      before break, at the beginning or at the end.
                                      Bill Byrd
                                      Norfolk VA



                                      >


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Bill Byrd
                                      My intent is to show that the Chapter is more than just the chorus, and the weekly meeting should have room in it for more than just a chorus rehearsal. There
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                        My intent is to show that the Chapter is more than just the chorus, and the
                                        weekly meeting should have room in it for more than just a chorus rehearsal.
                                        There should be social time, and Tag time and Quartet time in each weekly
                                        meeting of the Chapter, The rehearsal is only a part of the meeting. BOD
                                        stuff, and committee stuff happens in their venues, not in the general
                                        chapter meeting.
                                        Bill Byrd

                                        On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:36 PM, <okorth@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        > The chapter meeting time should be spent on rehearsal, quarteting, tags,
                                        > breaks.etc.
                                        > Chapter business is conducted by the BOD an brief reports are given to the
                                        > chapter members weekly or whatever.
                                        > Spending chapter time in a meeting is like a committee of 50...or 80...or
                                        > ???...nothing will get done besides arguing.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Otto Korth
                                        > 30 yer member SPEB
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Some may argue, but I think 3 hours is a mostly great length for a
                                        > chapter
                                        > meeting. I believe that the meeting should be a chapter meeting and the
                                        > rehearsal should be a part of that event. Limit your rehearsal period to
                                        > 2.5
                                        > hours, but make sure you vary what you are doing, and half an hour of
                                        > meeting activities, Quartets, Tags, Stories what have you, it works quite
                                        > well. Oh, the meeting segment moves around during the meeting, it's not
                                        > just
                                        > before break, at the beginning or at the end.
                                        > Bill Byrd
                                        > Norfolk VA
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------
                                        > *A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62>
                                        > *
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Alan Gordon
                                        Interesting input and interesting thread... To add a little twist on it (or maybe simplify it), I d suggest the following: EVERY CHAPTER MEETING, IN AND OF
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                          Interesting input and interesting thread...

                                          To add a little twist on it (or maybe simplify it), I'd suggest the
                                          following:

                                          EVERY CHAPTER MEETING, IN AND OF ITSELF, SHOULD BE AN EVENT WORTHY OF
                                          BRINGING JOY EVERY WEEK.

                                          For some chapters, the above may be spending almost all the time on
                                          the risers. For some chapters, it may be not even setting up risers
                                          and doing nothing except quartetting. For many, it is balancing the
                                          extremes, favoring one or the other as the chpater model dictates.

                                          I think where the problem lies for some is not having a clear chapter
                                          model, not knowing exactly the balance that brings people week after
                                          week, and focusing too much on long term planning. We often sit and
                                          plan out the 6-weeks leading up to show and what needs to get learned
                                          and polished, but then don't focus on what to do WITHIN THE EVENING
                                          to make that learning and polishing be a rewarding experience every
                                          WEEK. We lean too heavily on the reward coming with a successful
                                          show.

                                          That doesn't mean we shouldn't compete, shouldn't do shows, etc., but
                                          should just make sure we focus on the weekly events that bring us to
                                          the bigger ones.

                                          Having clear-cut goals for a chapter (and forming a second one if
                                          population allows that fills another set of needs... supporting each
                                          other, of course) may be the biggest thing hurting membership
                                          currently. In the same breath, supporting various types of chapter
                                          models within our own ranks would go far to help this. There is
                                          nothing wrong with a competitive chapter, nor is there anything wrong
                                          with a quartet-only chapter, as long as the two are serving the needs
                                          and wants fo their members.

                                          I think I'll end there before I branch away from the topic at hand.

                                          Alan
                                          gotchabari@...
                                        • Bill Kruse
                                          Bill,   Our Chapter Meeting starts at 7:00 pm and goes to 10:00 pm.  Once a month our Director, who has a Masters in Vocal Production and is a Professional
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                            Bill,
                                             
                                            Our Chapter Meeting starts at 7:00 pm and goes to 10:00 pm.  Once a month our Director, who has a Masters in Vocal Production and is a Professional Opera Singer, gives a group vocal session starting at 6:30 pm.  Maybe once or twice a month the Front Row meets at 6:30 pm.  We try and keep our business meeting/guest introductions down to 10 minutes and the break down to 10 minutes.  The extra 10 minutes is given to the Director and Music Team to work something musical as a program (tag quartet/octet, teach a tag, record a new song for tape learning, creative stuff).  During the 2.5 hours of rehearsal we usually have sectional training which give guys a bit of a break from standing on the risers.  They also get a chance to sit down during the business meeting, an octet performance and a brief sit right after the sectionals.  Our Director is very concentious about having the voice, body and mind able to endure what the feet and knees can bare.  Some
                                            times our Director will just tell everyone to find a new place on the risers, which give us some physical movement and a mind break.  I usually feel that our meetings are too short!
                                             
                                            I feel it may be the time of night that you run your meetings to.  When we went to 10:30 we had several guys leave the meeting after the break because they didn't want to stay until 10:30. Try starting at 7:00 pm and ending at 10:00 pm and it should feel shorter.  We had a slight problem when we shifted from 7:30 to 7:00 pm with getting people there on time.  It's now working just fine.  A few late comers still exist but it seems it's the same guys that were late when we started at 7:30.
                                             
                                            Successful meeting are packed full of singing and fun!

                                            Bill Kruse, District Delegate
                                            Westchester Chordsmen
                                            Freshmen Again!
                                            It's Great To Be A Barbershopper

                                            --- On Tue, 3/3/09, william ainsworth <wainsworth@...> wrote:

                                            From: william ainsworth <wainsworth@...>
                                            Subject: [bbshop] Length of meetings
                                            To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 9:03 AM

                                            Our chapter meets from 7:30 p.m. to 10:30 p.m. I personally think
                                            that this is a half hour too long and puts a stress on older members
                                            and those with physical disabilities. I also think that a certain
                                            amount of mental fatigue can set in and cause a person to practice his
                                            mistakes. I am contemplating moving that our chapter limit the meeting
                                            to two and a half hours. How long does your chapter meet?
                                            Incidentally, three hours would not be so bad if there was variety,
                                            such as listening to tags, quartets,etc. so as to give a break from
                                            being on the risers. The only trouble is that, with a competition
                                            coming up, any time not spent on the risers is considered to be
                                            wasted, and there always seems to be a competition or a annual show
                                            coming up.



                                            ------------------------------------

                                            Yahoo! Groups Links








                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Richard Frenette
                                            Our chapter (Ottawa, Canada), was experiencing some thinning out of the members after the 9.00 pm break (we rehearse on Monday nights) which provoked a new
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                              Our chapter (Ottawa, Canada), was experiencing some thinning out of the
                                              members after the 9.00 pm break (we rehearse on Monday nights) which
                                              provoked a new idea.

                                              We are now implementing the first part of our chapter meeting from 7:30 to
                                              9:30 pm straight. During that time, we will work our contest stuff,
                                              repertoire and singing skills. All things that make a chorus become better.
                                              Then those who have to leave (for whatever personal reasons), can do so at
                                              9:30 instead of 9:00 as before. That way, the chorus gets more valuable
                                              time to reach its goals.

                                              The rest of the members who stay after the break can split into different
                                              groups to do "fun" stuff like sing some old repertoire, or go to a "tag
                                              room", or do choreo stuff, etc.

                                              We are looking forward to this new trial format and expect to see positive
                                              results.

                                              Rich Tagman :-)

                                              -----Message d'origine-----
                                              De : bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com] De la part de
                                              Bill Byrd
                                              Envoyé : 3 mars 2009 13:21
                                              À : william ainsworth
                                              Cc : bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                                              Objet : Re: [bbshop] Length of meetings

                                              Some may argue, but I think 3 hours is a mostly great length for a chapter
                                              meeting. I believe that the meeting should be a chapter meeting and the
                                              rehearsal should be a part of that event. Limit your rehearsal period to 2.5
                                              hours, but make sure you vary what you are doing, and half an hour of
                                              meeting activities, Quartets, Tags, Stories what have you, it works quite
                                              well. Oh, the meeting segment moves around during the meeting, it's not just
                                              before break, at the beginning or at the end.
                                              Bill Byrd
                                              Norfolk VA



                                              >


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                              ------------------------------------

                                              Yahoo! Groups Links



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                                              19:21
                                            • Martha Lovejoy
                                               Not only that, Alan et al, but a meeting should be something that, if missed, is really missed.   They should fill you up in such a way that you hate to
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                                 Not only that, Alan et al, but a meeting should be something that, if missed, is really "missed."  They should "fill you up" in such a way that you hate to miss one...
                                                Marti Lovejoy
                                                Proud Owner of SING which raised $9315 for YSF in 2008
                                                Score Collector for SING (and the site below)
                                                Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA - 36 years so far
                                                http: //groups.yahoo . com/group/SweetAdelinesScores
                                                lovejoymar @ sbcglobal.net <--remove spaces from link and edress




                                                ________________________________
                                                From: Alan Gordon <gotchabari@...>
                                                To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 1:06:56 PM
                                                Subject: [bbshop] Re: Length of meetings

                                                Interesting input and interesting thread...

                                                To add a little twist on it (or maybe simplify it), I'd suggest the
                                                following:

                                                EVERY CHAPTER MEETING, IN AND OF ITSELF, SHOULD BE AN EVENT WORTHY OF
                                                BRINGING JOY EVERY WEEK.

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Nick Alexander
                                                How long you rehearse should depend on how much work you have to get done. The VM typically rehearses from 7:00 - 10:30pm with a 15 minute break. As contest
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                                  How long you rehearse should depend on how much work you have to get done.
                                                  The VM typically rehearses from 7:00 - 10:30pm with a 15 minute break. As
                                                  contest approaches we add a choreography rehearsal which starts at 6:00 plus
                                                  Saturday workshops. Even though we have a lot of work to do, our rehearsal
                                                  are always inspiring, and I can honestly say that in the soon to be 30 years
                                                  I've been with the group, there has never been a Thursday night when I
                                                  didn't go home feeling better than when I got there! Tired? You bet. But
                                                  with a smile on my face!

                                                  By the way, this Friday the VM will have the extreme honor of representing
                                                  the Barbershop Harmony Society at the American Choral Directors Association
                                                  meeting in Oklahoma City. We will be doing a 25 minute set, twice for a
                                                  total audience of 3,500 members. They represent the best choral and choir
                                                  directors from all across America. We will be promoting the BHS young men in
                                                  harmony program and encouraging folks to contact their local chapter or the
                                                  society for more info. The key to the survival of our beloved society is
                                                  recruiting new folks. We will be sure to wave the banner!!

                                                  Nick Alexander, VM MC









                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • David Updegraff
                                                  Personally, I don t think The chapter meeting should be . is a phrase that can be concluded by anyone other than the individual chapter. No one formula can
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Mar 3, 2009
                                                    Personally, I don't think "The chapter meeting should be ." is a phrase that
                                                    can be concluded by anyone other than the individual chapter. No one
                                                    formula can fit all chapters.



                                                    We begin our chapter meeting with warm ups at 6:30, and conclude with "Keep
                                                    the Whole World Singing" at 9:30 (most everything begins and ends earlier in
                                                    Tucson!). We vary the program somewhat, but generally have a total of 30
                                                    minutes available for business/announcements, break and brief program. Most
                                                    of the chorus rehearsal time, we are on the risers. If we have sectionals,
                                                    those are in the chairs. If a guy can't stand on the risers for 2.5 hours,
                                                    or for any of that time, he is welcome to bring a chair to the end of the
                                                    risers and sit. Anyone who needs a break to sit or go to the bathroom may
                                                    do so at any time.



                                                    One thing we have initiated since Jeff Dolan joined us almost two years ago
                                                    is that there is an expectation that most music will be learned at home on
                                                    the members' own, and that sectionals are used to attempt to develop unit
                                                    sound and solidify the sound. Paper music is generally not allowed on the
                                                    risers, except for guests and very new members.



                                                    We continue to be a work in progress, but we are getting better!



                                                    David



                                                    David R. Updegraff

                                                    Vice President, Music and Performance

                                                    Tucson Sunshine Chapter

                                                    tucson barbershop eXperience chorus





                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Charlie Davenport
                                                    Or stated in brief: Long enough so that all the members have fun -- defined by my definition: -- Fun - something you did yesterday that you can t wait to
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Mar 4, 2009
                                                      Or stated in brief: Long enough so that all the members have fun -- defined by my definition: -- "Fun - something you did yesterday that you can't wait to tell someone about today" -

                                                      Charlie Davenport

                                                      --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Gordon" <gotchabari@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Interesting input and interesting thread...
                                                      >
                                                      > To add a little twist on it (or maybe simplify it), I'd suggest the
                                                      > following:
                                                      >
                                                      > EVERY CHAPTER MEETING, IN AND OF ITSELF, SHOULD BE AN EVENT WORTHY OF
                                                      > BRINGING JOY EVERY WEEK.
                                                      >
                                                      > For some chapters, the above may be spending almost all the time on
                                                      > the risers. For some chapters, it may be not even setting up risers
                                                      > and doing nothing except quartetting. For many, it is balancing the
                                                      > extremes, favoring one or the other as the chpater model dictates.
                                                      >
                                                      > I think where the problem lies for some is not having a clear chapter
                                                      > model, not knowing exactly the balance that brings people week after
                                                      > week, and focusing too much on long term planning. We often sit and
                                                      > plan out the 6-weeks leading up to show and what needs to get learned
                                                      > and polished, but then don't focus on what to do WITHIN THE EVENING
                                                      > to make that learning and polishing be a rewarding experience every
                                                      > WEEK. We lean too heavily on the reward coming with a successful
                                                      > show.
                                                      >
                                                      > That doesn't mean we shouldn't compete, shouldn't do shows, etc., but
                                                      > should just make sure we focus on the weekly events that bring us to
                                                      > the bigger ones.
                                                      >
                                                      > Having clear-cut goals for a chapter (and forming a second one if
                                                      > population allows that fills another set of needs... supporting each
                                                      > other, of course) may be the biggest thing hurting membership
                                                      > currently. In the same breath, supporting various types of chapter
                                                      > models within our own ranks would go far to help this. There is
                                                      > nothing wrong with a competitive chapter, nor is there anything wrong
                                                      > with a quartet-only chapter, as long as the two are serving the needs
                                                      > and wants fo their members.
                                                      >
                                                      > I think I'll end there before I branch away from the topic at hand.
                                                      >
                                                      > Alan
                                                      > gotchabari@...
                                                      >
                                                    • ENau@comcast.net
                                                      When discussing length of chapter meetings, perhaps some additional perspective is needed to understand the subtle changes that have occurred during the first
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Mar 4, 2009
                                                        When discussing length of chapter meetings, perhaps some additional perspective is needed to understand the subtle changes that have occurred during the first 70 years of the Society.



                                                        During the early years of the Society and probably leading into the late 1950s, chapter meetings were viewed by the members as arrival points, places to go each week to have a great time . . . singing with friends in quartets, enjoying the camaraderie and doing a lot of gang-singing that eventually led to chorus development. The point was not what they sang or how they sang it so much as it was the fact that each weekly event was something to be anticipated because each member knew he was going to be rewarded with a good time, fun, whatever we want to call it.



                                                        As the Society developed, the chapter meetings became more a time of preparation . . . getting ready for the next show, sing-out, performance, contest etc. The time was spent more on learning craft, developing skills, etc., than it was on providing the fulfillment to the members that the old meetings had. Now, to receive the same level of fulfillment, a chapter member would not only need to attend a chapter meeting, but another event to get what he used to get just at the chapter meeting. More involvement, more commitment, and more time away from home with some attendant additional expense. I don't believe anyone ever really rebels against learning to be better at his singing avocation, but he balks at the extra commitment he now must make to get what he used to get at a chapter meeting by itself.



                                                        The BQPA and other so-called KIBBER groups have some valid points about what constitutes a good chapter meeting. All work and no play can be tedium at best, especially for old legs, old eyes and old ears.



                                                        To me, the task before us is to find ways to provide a weekly experience that will offer the hard-core competitive types and the more hobbyist-centered members a chance to walk away saying, "Wow! I can't wait for next week!" That is largely what Charlie Davenport uses as a basis for his "fun" definition. That is also something that will vary from chapter to chapter.



                                                        Perhaps we need to bring back some of our lost traditions. I remember mystery bus rides from Concord, Mass. to Livingston, NJ and the absolute great times everyone had. Interchapter meetings and the chance to show off a little -- e.g., the Beverly Bash every April 11. JAD used to celebrate the Sour Apple by showing up at a chapter and delivering a little goodie to the host, whose responsibility then became to move it along. In addition, the little extras where singing and fellowship were further fostered included the Bates Beach Bash, Alton Bay, Block Island weekend, etc. for me. I'm sure any member with more than 20 years in the Spociety can name other such events (Middle Bass, etc.)



                                                        I make no accusations nor do I profess to have the only way to solve any problems. But, I do know that the constant rush to be better and better often takes its toll on membership who are looking to immerse themselves on a weekly basis in this thing we call barbershop. That may be handled as easily as providing 15-20 minutes each night where the chorus sings through entire songs without being stopped for correction. It might be a quartet program, and you need to see what happens in Nashville to understand how much fun and encouraging it can be. It may include using the 5th meeting night of a month as a quartet night. Whatever it may be, it must be something that will allow a preponderence of members to again look forward to "can't miss" activities provided only by a chapter meeting. When that happens, we will be preserving an important part of our heritage.



                                                        I have no bone to pick with any chapter that wants to "work hard." I only ask that we not forget to play as hard, too, for if we don't, I believe we will winnow down eventually to a group of near-professional singers who will have no room for men who love to sing . . . and they still outnumber the rest and deserve a chance to be educated while creating memorable moments of their own. Nothing against singing a perfect "E" vowel, but give me the chance to sing some "stuff" with the guys on XXXXX night, and I'm in for the whole load.



                                                        Isn't it interesting to note that some of our most revered leaders of the past did just that, yet still managed to impart a lot of musical education and preparation for great shows away from the chapter meeting. (Can you say "Earl Moon?") Yet, the chapter meeting was the place everyone went to scratch his barbershop itch. It seems to me that we just don't see that much any more, and I wonder if we did, would the bickering stop and the fun begin again?



                                                        Ev Nau

                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • jetriple@rockwellcollins.com
                                                        Ev - What a spectacular post! I actually left a chorus one time because we were always getting ready for something, and never doing something. I have the good
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Mar 4, 2009
                                                          Ev - What a spectacular post! I actually left a chorus one time because
                                                          we were always getting ready for something, and never doing something.

                                                          I have the good fortune now to be in a group that operates in two
                                                          different fashions.

                                                          A small group of us meet every Thursday and have a blast singing. We
                                                          always have all the parts, because many of us can sing two different ones,
                                                          and some even three. It's a jam-session for singers, with the goal of
                                                          ringing the snot out of some cool songs! Sure we try and improve, and
                                                          memorize stuff, and we did sing over 30 Singing Valentines, but the
                                                          rehearsal itself is the payoff.

                                                          The other facet of the chapter is a competition based group. We meet on
                                                          Saturdays, but only every three or four weeks. Music is learned at home.
                                                          We stand on the risers the whole rehearsal, bring in coaches, and work on
                                                          getting ready for contest. This group is comprised of most of the
                                                          Thursday night guys, and then a bunch of dual members from surrounding
                                                          chapters. It's hard work, and the focus is on getting better every time.

                                                          I love both of these groups, and love both types of rehearsals, and feel
                                                          extremely lucky to be associated with all these guys.

                                                          Best Regards...

                                                          James Triplett
                                                          Twenty-First Century Vocals - Chorus
                                                          Linn County Metro (Iowa) - Chapter



                                                          bbshop@yahoogroups.com wrote on 03/04/2009 08:52:08 AM:

                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > When discussing length of chapter meetings, perhaps some additional
                                                          > perspective is needed to understand the subtle changes that have
                                                          > occurred during the first 70 years of the Society.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > During the early years of the Society and probably leading into the
                                                          > late 1950s, chapter meetings were viewed by the members as arrival
                                                          > points, places to go each week to have a great time . . . singing
                                                          > with friends in quartets, enjoying the camaraderie and doing a lot
                                                          > of gang-singing that eventually led to chorus development. The point
                                                          > was not what they sang or how they sang it so much as it was the
                                                          > fact that each weekly event was something to be anticipated because
                                                          > each member knew he was going to be rewarded with a good time, fun,
                                                          > whatever we want to call it.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > As the Society developed, the chapter meetings became more a time of
                                                          > preparation . . . getting ready for the next show, sing-out,
                                                          > performance, contest etc. The time was spent more on learning craft,
                                                          > developing skills, etc., than it was on providing the fulfillment to
                                                          > the members that the old meetings had. Now, to receive the same
                                                          > level of fulfillment, a chapter member would not only need to attend
                                                          > a chapter meeting, but another event to get what he used to get just
                                                          > at the chapter meeting. More involvement, more commitment, and more
                                                          > time away from home with some attendant additional expense. I don't
                                                          > believe anyone ever really rebels against learning to be better at
                                                          > his singing avocation, but he balks at the extra commitment he now
                                                          > must make to get what he used to get at a chapter meeting by itself.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > The BQPA and other so-called KIBBER groups have some valid points
                                                          > about what constitutes a good chapter meeting. All work and no play
                                                          > can be tedium at best, especially for old legs, old eyes and old ears.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > To me, the task before us is to find ways to provide a weekly
                                                          > experience that will offer the hard-core competitive types and the
                                                          > more hobbyist-centered members a chance to walk away saying, "Wow! I
                                                          > can't wait for next week!" That is largely what Charlie Davenport
                                                          > uses as a basis for his "fun" definition. That is also something
                                                          > that will vary from chapter to chapter.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Perhaps we need to bring back some of our lost traditions. I
                                                          > remember mystery bus rides from Concord, Mass. to Livingston, NJ and
                                                          > the absolute great times everyone had. Interchapter meetings and the
                                                          > chance to show off a little -- e.g., the Beverly Bash every April
                                                          > 11. JAD used to celebrate the Sour Apple by showing up at a chapter
                                                          > and delivering a little goodie to the host, whose responsibility
                                                          > then became to move it along. In addition, the little extras where
                                                          > singing and fellowship were further fostered included the Bates
                                                          > Beach Bash, Alton Bay, Block Island weekend, etc. for me. I'm sure
                                                          > any member with more than 20 years in the Spociety can name other
                                                          > such events (Middle Bass, etc.)
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > I make no accusations nor do I profess to have the only way to solve
                                                          > any problems. But, I do know that the constant rush to be better and
                                                          > better often takes its toll on membership who are looking to immerse
                                                          > themselves on a weekly basis in this thing we call barbershop. That
                                                          > may be handled as easily as providing 15-20 minutes each night where
                                                          > the chorus sings through entire songs without being stopped for
                                                          > correction. It might be a quartet program, and you need to see what
                                                          > happens in Nashville to understand how much fun and encouraging it
                                                          > can be. It may include using the 5th meeting night of a month as a
                                                          > quartet night. Whatever it may be, it must be something that will
                                                          > allow a preponderence of members to again look forward to "can't
                                                          > miss" activities provided only by a chapter meeting. When that
                                                          > happens, we will be preserving an important part of our heritage.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > I have no bone to pick with any chapter that wants to "work hard." I
                                                          > only ask that we not forget to play as hard, too, for if we don't, I
                                                          > believe we will winnow down eventually to a group of near-
                                                          > professional singers who will have no room for men who love to sing
                                                          > . . . and they still outnumber the rest and deserve a chance to be
                                                          > educated while creating memorable moments of their own. Nothing
                                                          > against singing a perfect "E" vowel, but give me the chance to sing
                                                          > some "stuff" with the guys on XXXXX night, and I'm in for the whole
                                                          load.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Isn't it interesting to note that some of our most revered leaders
                                                          > of the past did just that, yet still managed to impart a lot of
                                                          > musical education and preparation for great shows away from the
                                                          > chapter meeting. (Can you say "Earl Moon?") Yet, the chapter meeting
                                                          > was the place everyone went to scratch his barbershop itch. It seems
                                                          > to me that we just don't see that much any more, and I wonder if we
                                                          > did, would the bickering stop and the fun begin again?
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Ev Nau
                                                          >
                                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > ------------------------------------
                                                          >
                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >


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