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Holiday Songs - contest suitability

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  • Dave Jacobs
    ... Mike Barkley wrote: From: Mike Barkley Hello all you Fine Music judges! Could you comment on the contestability of the following
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 26, 2002
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      --------------------------------------------
      Mike Barkley wrote:
      From: "Mike Barkley" <mjbarkl@...>
      Hello all you Fine Music judges! Could you comment
      on the contestability of the following two:

      Don't Blame Me, arr Lou Perry

      Santa Claus Is Coming To Town, arr Joe Liles
      ---------------------------------------------


      Hmmm... This makes me ask an old question in a different way... (at least I don't remember discussing this in the past 18 years.)

      We all know *religious* music is *not* suitable for the barbershop *contest* stage due to subject matter. But what about *secular* holiday music?
      Concentrating on subject matter of the lyrics only (I don't want to discuss the musical aspects of any particular arrangement, at this time)....

      SPEBSQSA Contest rules state:ARTICLE IX: A. "A song performed in contest must... ...be neither primarily patriotic nor primarily religious in intent..." (See, I did do a *little* research!)

      Could a secular holiday song be suitable for contest?
      Or is the fact that it's a holiday song make it inseparable from the religiousness of the holiday?

      If it could...
      What would be the breaking point?

      For example...
      "I'll Be Home for Christmas" mentions a religious holiday.
      "Santa Clause is Coming to Town" mentions a fictional(?) character associated with a religious holiday.
      "Jingle Bells" mentions a girl named "Fanny".
      Are the subject matter of any of these songs closer to being suitable for contest than the others?

      Any learned opinions out there?
      Dave


      Dave Jacobs g8r10r@...
      Gainesville, FL
      Y2K Four,(waiting for 2004 when the name makes sense again) bari.



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    • Wollin, Todd P, SR (Peter)** CTR **
      Interesting spin, however, just because the birth of Jesus Christ and a story of a guy named Santa Clause happen at the same time (date) of year doesn t tie
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 26, 2002
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        Interesting spin, however, just because the birth of Jesus Christ and a story of a guy named Santa Clause happen at the same time (date) of year doesn't tie them together that tightly in my opinion. (Another opinion, that was a run-on sentence). I believe that you can have non-religious holiday songs in contest. But then, I don't see the harm in having patriotic or religious songs on the contest stage either.

        I see Christmas as two separate events tied together for the sake of shopping. Really. I'm far more knowledgeable about the story of Jesus than I am of Santa. But if I recall correctly, Santa is a spin-off of sorts of the Saint Nicholas story? Didn't that originally take place in early Dec.? Saint Nicks day? Everything was sort of moved together for convenience. I could be way off here though.

        Under the current contest rules, if a song doesn't specifically mention God, any God, Jesus, or other ecclesiastical impedimenta then it shouldn't matter what it's content is. As long as it is not patriotic and is tasteful.

        Todd P. Wollin Sr.
        IBM Global Services - TDS
        Serving Lucent Technologies
        630 713 7705
        Pager 1 800 759 8888
        Pin 1067481

        Baritone / Tenor - Sound Decision Quartet
        www.harmonize.ws/sounddecision


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Dave Jacobs [mailto:g8r10r@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 8:42 AM
        To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [bbshop] Holiday Songs - contest suitability

        --------------------------------------------
        Mike Barkley wrote:
        From: "Mike Barkley" <mjbarkl@...>
        Hello all you Fine Music judges! Could you comment
        on the contestability of the following two:

        Don't Blame Me, arr Lou Perry

        Santa Claus Is Coming To Town, arr Joe Liles
        ---------------------------------------------


        Hmmm... This makes me ask an old question in a different way... (at least I don't remember discussing this in the past 18 years.)

        We all know *religious* music is *not* suitable for the barbershop *contest* stage due to subject matter. But what about *secular* holiday music?
        Concentrating on subject matter of the lyrics only (I don't want to discuss the musical aspects of any particular arrangement, at this time)....

        SPEBSQSA Contest rules state:ARTICLE IX: A. "A song performed in contest must... ...be neither primarily patriotic nor primarily religious in intent..." (See, I did do a *little* research!)

        Could a secular holiday song be suitable for contest?
        Or is the fact that it's a holiday song make it inseparable from the religiousness of the holiday?

        If it could...
        What would be the breaking point?

        For example...
        "I'll Be Home for Christmas" mentions a religious holiday.
        "Santa Clause is Coming to Town" mentions a fictional(?) character associated with a religious holiday.
        "Jingle Bells" mentions a girl named "Fanny".
        Are the subject matter of any of these songs closer to being suitable for contest than the others?

        Any learned opinions out there?
        Dave


        Dave Jacobs g8r10r@...
        Gainesville, FL
        Y2K Four,(waiting for 2004 when the name makes sense again) bari.



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      • rogsp10r@aol.com
        A package of holiday songs has been done at International with no problem. It just has to be secular stuff celebrating the secular side of things. So, Santa
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 26, 2002
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          A package of holiday songs has been done at International with no problem. It
          just has to be secular stuff celebrating the secular side of things.

          So, Santa Claus is Coming to Town, sure, if the arrangement fulfills
          stylistic requirements otherwise.

          Roger Payne
          Music Judge tiptoeing into Presentation territory
        • Marti Lovejoy
          ... There is a lovely, sad ballad called, Why Doesn t Santa Claus Go Next Door which is definitely contestable - at least in Sweet Adelines - as it was sung
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 26, 2002
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            Dave asks:

            >Could a secular holiday song be suitable for contest?
            >Or is the fact that it's a holiday song make it inseparable from the
            >religiousness of the holiday?
            >
            >If it could...
            >What would be the breaking point?
            >
            >For example...
            >"I'll Be Home for Christmas" mentions a religious holiday.
            >"Santa Clause is Coming to Town" mentions a fictional(?) character
            >associated with a religious holiday.
            >"Jingle Bells" mentions a girl named "Fanny".
            >Are the subject matter of any of these songs closer to being
            >suitable for contest than the others?


            There is a lovely, sad ballad called, "Why Doesn't Santa Claus Go
            Next Door" which is definitely contestable - at least in Sweet
            Adelines - as it was sung by a winning chorus in the 70's or early
            80's.

            Marti
            --
            Marti Lovejoy
            Nashville Reporting Team for SING & Harmonet
            Proud "Owner" of SING: sponsor of a YSF Scholarship in 2002
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SweetAdelinesScores/messages
            Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA (30 years so far)
            LovejoyMar @ att.net <--remove spaces
          • Glenda and Danny Millgate
            ... religiousness of the holiday? I would suggest that this issue is so borderline that any chorus or quartet would be foolish to try it out. There are
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 26, 2002
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              >Could a secular holiday song be suitable for contest?
              >Or is the fact that it's a holiday song make it inseparable from the
              religiousness of the holiday?

              I would suggest that this issue is so borderline that any chorus or quartet
              would be foolish to try it out. There are millions of songs out there...why
              bother taking the risk of singing holiday songs in contest?

              Glenda Millgate
              Director, Brindabella Chorus
              Bass of 'Synchronicity'
              Regional Education Faculty
              Webmistress www.sweetadelines.org.au
              Southern Cross Region #34 Australia
            • Lungbustn@aol.com
              If anyone knows the lyrics to Why doesn t Santa Clause Go Next Door could you please email me privately? Are there any recordings of this chart anywhere?
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 26, 2002
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                If anyone knows the lyrics to "Why doesn't Santa Clause Go Next Door" could
                you please email me privately? Are there any recordings of this chart
                anywhere?

                Keepin' It Real,

                Seth Kotkin
                Barily - Tone
              • Jason Portell
                Singing a holiday song isn t a problem so long as it s tastefully executed in a contest package that makes sense. The Ambassadors of Harmony sang Toyland in a
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 28, 2002
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                  Singing a holiday song isn't a problem so long as it's tastefully
                  executed in a contest package that makes sense. The Ambassadors of
                  Harmony sang Toyland in a contest setting and was able to make 4th
                  place in both appearances at international.

                  Thanks,
                  Jason Portell
                  Ambassadors of Harmony


                  --- In bbshop@y..., "Glenda and Danny Millgate" <millgate@a...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >Could a secular holiday song be suitable for contest?
                  > >Or is the fact that it's a holiday song make it inseparable from
                  the
                  > religiousness of the holiday?
                  >
                  > I would suggest that this issue is so borderline that any chorus or
                  quartet
                  > would be foolish to try it out. There are millions of songs out
                  there...why
                  > bother taking the risk of singing holiday songs in contest?
                  >
                  > Glenda Millgate
                  > Director, Brindabella Chorus
                  > Bass of 'Synchronicity'
                  > Regional Education Faculty
                  > Webmistress www.sweetadelines.org.au
                  > Southern Cross Region #34 Australia
                • clancysmusic52
                  The song was Why Doesn t Santa Claus Go Next Door - sung by Mission Valley (directed by Gloria Sandstrom) in Cinncinnati in 1976, they won International
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 1, 2002
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                    The song was "Why Doesn't Santa Claus Go Next Door" - sung by
                    Mission Valley (directed by Gloria Sandstrom) in Cinncinnati in
                    1976, they won International with this Ballad. It was arranged by
                    Barbara Bianchi.

                    Ethel Lowther
                    Tucson Goodtime Chorus
                    SAI - Region 21


                    -- In bbshop@y..., Marti Lovejoy <LovejoyMar@w...> wrote:
                    > Dave asks:
                    >
                    > >Could a secular holiday song be suitable for contest?
                    > >Or is the fact that it's a holiday song make it inseparable from
                    the
                    > >religiousness of the holiday?
                    > >
                    > >If it could...
                    > >What would be the breaking point?
                    > >
                    > >>
                    >
                    > There is a lovely, sad ballad called, "Why Doesn't Santa Claus Go
                    > Next Door" which is definitely contestable - at least in Sweet
                    > Adelines - as it was sung by a winning chorus in the 70's or early
                    > 80's.
                    >
                    > Marti
                    > --
                    > Marti Lovejoy
                    > Nashville Reporting Team for SING & Harmonet
                    > Proud "Owner" of SING: sponsor of a YSF Scholarship in 2002
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SweetAdelinesScores/messages
                    > Life Member, Reg 10, TX, USA (30 years so far)
                    > LovejoyMar @ att.net <--remove spaces
                  • kkbari
                    ... or ... With respect to my buddy, Jason, the lyrics to Toyland suggest nothing about Christmas. It speaks of the passage from childhood to being an
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 2, 2002
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                      --- In bbshop@y..., "Jason Portell" <chordringer@y...> wrote:
                      > Singing a holiday song isn't a problem so long as it's tastefully
                      > executed in a contest package that makes sense. The Ambassadors of
                      > Harmony sang Toyland in a contest setting and was able to make 4th
                      > place in both appearances at international.
                      > > >Could a secular holiday song be suitable for contest?
                      > > >Or is the fact that it's a holiday song make it inseparable from
                      > the
                      > > religiousness of the holiday?
                      > >
                      > > I would suggest that this issue is so borderline that any chorus
                      or
                      > quartet
                      > > would be foolish to try it out. There are millions of songs out
                      > there...why
                      > > bother taking the risk of singing holiday songs in contest?

                      With respect to my buddy, Jason, the lyrics to "Toyland" suggest
                      nothing about Christmas. It speaks of the passage from childhood to
                      being an adult. AoH's package had nothing to do with Christmas.

                      I am not familiar with the Victor Herbert musical it was written for,
                      so I don't know if the song was extracted from a Christmas setting.
                      But the judges' don't judge the context of where the song originated;
                      they judge the presentation of the music as performed.

                      Assuming the song you choose can barbershop, there are three things
                      to watch out for: patriotic, religious, and poor taste. On the
                      religious front, the overriding elements are "exalting a deity" and
                      hymns/anthems. So, songs like "Angels We Have Heard on High" and "O
                      Holy Night" won't fly. However, seasonal songs such as "Let it Snow"
                      and "Winter Wonderland" are perfectly acceptable (providing they meet
                      the general criteria of the barbershop style).

                      Cheers!

                      Kevin Keller
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