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Re: declining chapter competition

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  • John Nuss
    I ve been a barbershopper for 32 years, the last five with my current chapter.  During that 5 year span, our chapter has competed in district competition one
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 1, 2012
      I've been a barbershopper for 32 years, the last five with my current chapter.  During that 5 year span,
      our chapter has competed in district competition one time.  The reasons for this are varied, and I suspect
      are similar to many BHS chapters.
      (1) The average age of our declining membership is 65, 80% of which are retired.
      (2) During my 32 years, I've found that most older members are not interested in competition but are more
           social oriented. Very few have the commitment to dedicate the time and effort for contest preparation.
      (3) Very few of our retirees, on a fixed income, desire to make the financial outlay required for competition.
      (4) Our chapter currently has 42 on the roster of which 25 are active.  There is numerous dead wood and
            very few quality voices among the active.  Due to age, bad tonality aggravated by hearing loss, is an issue.
            A bad situation for competition success.
       
      Most of these points were addressed in a recent Harmonet thread regarding the makeup of chapter
      membership.  There is no easy answer.
       
      John Nuss
      Florida Suncoast Chorus


      ________________________________
      From: "bbshop@yahoogroups.com" <bbshop@yahoogroups.com>
      To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 3:50 AM
      Subject: [bbshop] Digest Number 6870

      There are 9 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1a. Re: one of every four district choruses decided to compete on Saturd   
          From: sct060@...
      1b. bang for the buck has always intrigued me   
          From: Gary Davis
      1c. Re: bang for the buck has always intrigued me   
          From: sct060@...
      1d. Re: bang for the buck has always intrigued me   
          From: sct060@...
      1e. I am involved   
          From: Gary Davis
      1f. Re: I am involved   
          From: Bill Byrd
      1g. Re: I am involved   
          From: sct060@...
      1h. Re: I am involved   
          From: jburri62

      2a. Re: BQPA/Pioneers Fall Festival   
          From: Jack W. Martin


      Messages
      ________________________________________________________________________
      1a. Re: one of every four district choruses decided to compete on Saturd
          Posted by: "sct060@..." sct060@... gronskibari
          Date: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:04 pm ((PDT))

      Gary, it has been a while since I was active in the district, but the fall 
      has historically been the smaller of the two annual chorus competitions; the 
      "invitational", if you will, with the "open" competition held in the spring. 
      The rules may have changed, but I suspect that many of the small chapters 
      still hold the belief that the spring is their time to compete.

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      -----Original message-----
      From: Gary Davis <gwdavis44@...>
      To: 'Gary Davis' <gwdavis44@...>, 'Odyssey Quartet' 
      <odyssey4tet@...>
      Cc: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 22:46:09 GMT+00:00
      Subject: [bbshop] one of every four district choruses decided to compete on 
      Saturday

      Correction. I was wrong. Sorry.



      Only eight of our choruses decided to complete.



      We have 32 chapters in our district.  That works out to an even 25%. 



      Pretty sad.



      Gary Davis



      From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      Gary Davis
      Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 5:19 PM
      To: 'Odyssey Quartet'
      Cc: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [bbshop] RE: nine of 32



       

      I asked why only nine of our 32 choruses showed up to compete last weekend.

      Well, the answer is that most choruses don't think competition is worth the
      candle.

      In other words, about 3/4 of our choruses (and probably 70% of our members)
      aren't all that interested in something that we spend 90% of time working
      on.

      Is that smart?

      Gary Davis





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      Messages in this topic (13)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      1b. bang for the buck has always intrigued me
          Posted by: "Gary Davis" gwdavis44@... schreckenghaust
          Date: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:38 pm ((PDT))

      So you know more than I do about district efforts. Would it be fair to say that 90% of the district officers’ time and energy goes to plan the conventions?



      Gary



      From: sct060@... [mailto:sct060@...]
      Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 6:05 PM
      To: Gary Davis; bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [bbshop] one of every four district choruses decided to compete on Saturday



      Gary, it has been a while since I was active in the district, but the fall has historically been the smaller of the two annual chorus competitions; the "invitational", if you will, with the "open" competition held in the spring.  The rules may have changed, but I suspect that many of the small chapters still hold the belief that the spring is their time to compete.

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless



      -----Original message-----

      From: Gary Davis <gwdavis44@...>
      To: 'Gary Davis' <gwdavis44@...>, 'Odyssey Quartet' <odyssey4tet@...>
      Cc: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 22:46:09 GMT+00:00
      Subject: [bbshop] one of every four district choruses decided to compete on Saturday

       

      Correction. I was wrong. Sorry.

      Only eight of our choruses decided to complete.

      We have 32 chapters in our district. That works out to an even 25%.

      Pretty sad.

      Gary Davis

      From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
      Gary Davis
      Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 5:19 PM
      To: 'Odyssey Quartet'
      Cc: bbshop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [bbshop] RE: nine of 32

      I asked why only nine of our 32 choruses showed up to compete last weekend.

      Well, the answer is that most choruses don't think competition is worth the
      candle.

      In other words, about 3/4 of our choruses (and probably 70% of our members)
      aren't all that interested in something that we spend 90% of time working
      on.

      Is that smart?

      Gary Davis

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      Messages in this topic (13)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      1c. Re: bang for the buck has always intrigued me
          Posted by: "sct060@..." sct060@... gronskibari
          Date: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:49 pm ((PDT))

      Based on what I have seen, not even close.  I was president of two chapters in Illinois, one of which competed this weekend, one which didn't.  I've sung in last place choruses, first place, and everywhere in between.  I was never on the District board, but attended numerous House of Delegates meetings.  At the chapter level, maybe 10% of our energy was devoted to competition preparation; district level, possibly 40%.  This doesn't have to be a matter of speculation for you: House of Delegates meetings are open, the agenda is pre-published, and the contact information for every district board member, most of whom I consider as personal friends, is available on the district website.  You can complain, or you can get involved.

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      -----Original message-----
      From: Gary Davis <gwdavis44@...>
      To: sct060@..., bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 00:38:34 GMT+00:00
      Subject: bang for the buck has always intrigued me

      So you know more than I do about district efforts. Would it be fair to say that 90% of the district officers’ time and energy goes to plan the conventions?



      Gary



      From: sct060@... [mailto:sct060@...]
      Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 6:05 PM
      To: Gary Davis; bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [bbshop] one of every four district choruses decided to compete on Saturday



      Gary, it has been a while since I was active in the district, but the fall has historically been the smaller of the two annual chorus competitions; the "invitational", if you will, with the "open" competition held in the spring.  The rules may have changed, but I suspect that many of the small chapters still hold the belief that the spring is their time to compete.

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless



      -----Original message-----

      From: Gary Davis <gwdavis44@...>
      To: 'Gary Davis' <gwdavis44@...>, 'Odyssey Quartet' <odyssey4tet@...>
      Cc: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 22:46:09 GMT+00:00
      Subject: [bbshop] one of every four district choruses decided to compete on Saturday

       

      Correction. I was wrong. Sorry.

      Only eight of our choruses decided to complete.

      We have 32 chapters in our district. That works out to an even 25%.

      Pretty sad.

      Gary Davis

      From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      Messages in this topic (13)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      1d. Re: bang for the buck has always intrigued me
          Posted by: "sct060@..." sct060@... gronskibari
          Date: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:57 pm ((PDT))

      Sorry, forgot to sign last two messages, phone truncates my normal contact info.

      John Gronski
      Fort Worth
      Former president, Aurora Lamplighters
      Co-founder and initial president of the latest version of the Kankakee chapter

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      -----Original message-----
      From: Gary Davis <gwdavis44@...>
      To: sct060@..., bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 00:38:34 GMT+00:00
      Subject: bang for the buck has always intrigued me

      So you know more than I do about district efforts. Would it be fair to say that 90% of the district officers’ time and energy goes to plan the conventions?



      Gary



      From: sct060@... [mailto:sct060@...]
      Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 6:05 PM
      To: Gary Davis; bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [bbshop] one of every four district choruses decided to compete on Saturday



      Gary, it has been a while since I was active in the district, but the fall has historically been the smaller of the two annual chorus competitions; the "invitational", if you will, with the "open" competition held in the spring.  The rules may have changed, but I suspect that many of the small chapters still hold the belief that the spring is their time to compete.

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless



      -----Original message-----

      From: Gary Davis <gwdavis44@...>
      To: 'Gary Davis' <gwdavis44@...>, 'Odyssey Quartet' <odyssey4tet@...>
      Cc: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 22:46:09 GMT+00:00
      Subject: [bbshop] one of every four district choruses decided to compete on Saturday

       

      Correction. I was wrong. Sorry.

      Only eight of our choruses decided to complete.

      We have 32 chapters in our district. That works out to an even 25%.

      Pretty sad.

      Gary Davis

      From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      Messages in this topic (13)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      1e. I am involved
          Posted by: "Gary Davis" gwdavis44@... schreckenghaust
          Date: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:06 pm ((PDT))

      Dear SCT60



      1.      I did not know that House of Delegates meetings were open. Each time I’ve checked, the door to the meeting was closed. Nor did I ever receive an invitation to sit in. In fact, I’ve been told that only our president or his designee could attend. At least that’s what I think I was told.

      2.      I don’t believe that the HOD agenda is posted for the general membership to see. Somebody from the Illinois District can correct me if I’m wrong.

      3.      In our chapter, a full 90% of our effort has been devoted all summer to contest preparation. I’m not sure it’s worth it.

      4.      Thanks for your estimate that 40% of district resources go into the convention. We know that 25% of chapters send choruses to compete.  If about half of our energy is going into X, shouldn’t half of our members be taking advantage of X? The 40% - 25% ratio seems a little off.

      5.      You’ll be glad to know that I AM involved. I was the staging chair for our recent convention and have the bad back to prove it. (I also provided contest programs when the District ran out.)



      Gary Davis, Land of Lincoln Chorus



      From: sct060@... [mailto:sct060@...]
      Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:50 PM
      To: Gary Davis; bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: bang for the buck has always intrigued me



      Based on what I have seen, not even close.  I was president of two chapters in Illinois, one of which competed this weekend, one which didn't.  I've sung in last place choruses, first place, and everywhere in between.  I was never on the District board, but attended numerous House of Delegates meetings.  At the chapter level, maybe 10% of our energy was devoted to competition preparation; district level, possibly 40%.  This doesn't have to be a matter of speculation for you: House of Delegates meetings are open, the agenda is pre-published, and the contact information for every district board member, most of whom I consider as personal friends, is available on the district website.  You can complain, or you can get involved.

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless



      -----Original message-----

      From: Gary Davis <gwdavis44@...>
      To: sct060@..., bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 00:38:34 GMT+00:00
      Subject: bang for the buck has always intrigued me

      So you know more than I do about district efforts. Would it be fair to say that 90% of the district officers’ time and energy goes to plan the conventions?



      Gary



      From: sct060@... [mailto:sct060@...]
      Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 6:05 PM
      To: Gary Davis; bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [bbshop] one of every four district choruses decided to compete on Saturday



      Gary, it has been a while since I was active in the district, but the fall has historically been the smaller of the two annual chorus competitions; the "invitational", if you will, with the "open" competition held in the spring.  The rules may have changed, but I suspect that many of the small chapters still hold the belief that the spring is their time to compete.

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless



      -----Original message-----

      From: Gary Davis <gwdavis44@...>
      To: 'Gary Davis' <gwdavis44@...>, 'Odyssey Quartet' <odyssey4tet@...>
      Cc: bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 22:46:09 GMT+00:00
      Subject: [bbshop] one of every four district choruses decided to compete on Saturday

       

      Correction. I was wrong. Sorry.

      Only eight of our choruses decided to complete.

      We have 32 chapters in our district. That works out to an even 25%.

      Pretty sad.

      Gary Davis

      From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
      Gary Davis
      Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 5:19 PM
      To: 'Odyssey Quartet'
      Cc: bbshop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [bbshop] RE: nine of 32

      I asked why only nine of our 32 choruses showed up to compete last weekend.

      Well, the answer is that most choruses don't think competition is worth the
      candle.

      In other words, about 3/4 of our choruses (and probably 70% of our members)
      aren't all that interested in something that we spend 90% of time working
      on.

      Is that smart?

      Gary Davis

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      Messages in this topic (13)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      1f. Re: I am involved
          Posted by: "Bill Byrd" wlbyrd@...
          Date: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:16 pm ((PDT))

      There is a reason that districts devote much of their time to
      convention/contest. It's money, the majority of the
      district operating funds come from monies raised at convention.  If our
      districts did not make money from conventions we would have to find another
      place to get those funds.  I cannot speak to any particular district, I
      have been here in Mid Atlantic for my entire time in barbershop (36+
      years). If we get more participation at conventions districts can do more
      things be cause they make money running conventions, Or at least they used
      to. It has been one of the major sources of funds for some time.  Please
      even if you don't compete go to convention, root for your favorites, sing
      in the lobby, stay in convention hotels, and connect with your fellow
      barbershoppers. It is a good thing, I try to go every year whether I am
      competing or not.
      Bill Byrd
      Norfolk VA
      Suffolk VA


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      Messages in this topic (13)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      1g. Re: I am involved
          Posted by: "sct060@..." sct060@... gronskibari
          Date: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:31 pm ((PDT))

      Consider this a public apology to Gary for my earlier snappish tone-I broke my own rule of not reading twice before hitting <send> and sent a message much harsher than I should have.  I sent him a more detailed private apology.

      John

      Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

      -----Original message-----
      From: Gary Davis <gwdavis44@...>
      To: sct060@..., bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 01:06:33 GMT+00:00
      Subject: I am involved

      Dear SCT60



      1.      I did not know that House of Delegates meetings were open. Each time I’ve checked, the door to the meeting was closed. Nor did I ever receive an invitation to sit in. In fact, I’ve been told that only our president or his designee could attend. At least that’s what I think I was told.

      2.      I don’t believe that the HOD agenda is posted for the general membership to see. Somebody from the Illinois District can correct me if I’m wrong.

      3.      In our chapter, a full 90% of our effort has been devoted all summer to contest preparation. I’m not sure it’s worth it.

      4.      Thanks for your estimate that 40% of district resources go into the convention. We know that 25% of chapters send choruses to compete.  If about half of our energy is going into X, shouldn’t half of our members be taking advantage of X? The 40% - 25% ratio seems a little off.

      5.      You’ll be glad to know that I AM involved. I was the staging chair for our recent convention and have the bad back to prove it. (I also provided contest programs when the District ran out.)



      Gary Davis, Land of Lincoln Chorus



      From: sct060@... [mailto:sct060@...]
      Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:50 PM
      To: Gary Davis; bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: bang for the buck has always intrigued me



      Based on what I have seen, not even close.  I was president of two cha


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      Messages in this topic (13)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      1h. Re: I am involved
          Posted by: "jburri62" burritone@... jburri62
          Date: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:05 pm ((PDT))






      Good on ya', John.

      Gary, very respectfully, if you don't feel 90% of your chapter's summer efforts being devoted to fall contest preparation is appropriate, have you taken up your concern with your chapter leadership?

      What do you propose can be done to bring back the balance you seek?

      John Burri
      Portland, OR

      --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "sct060@..."<sct060@...> wrote:
      >
      > Consider this a public apology to Gary for my earlier snappish tone-I broke my own rule of not reading twice before hitting <send> and sent a message much harsher than I should have.  I sent him a more detailed private apology.
      >
      > John
      >
      > Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
      >
      > -----Original message-----
      > From: Gary Davis <gwdavis44@...>
      > To: sct060@..., bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 01:06:33 GMT+00:00
      > Subject: I am involved
      >
      > Dear SCT60
      >

      >
      > 1.      I did not know that House of Delegates meetings were open. Each time Iâve checked, the door to the meeting was closed. Nor did I ever receive an invitation to sit in. In fact, Iâve been told that only our president or his designee could attend. At least thatâs what I think I was told.
      >
      > 2.      I donât believe that the HOD agenda is posted for the general membership to see. Somebody from the Illinois District can correct me if Iâm wrong.
      >
      > 3.      In our chapter, a full 90% of our effort has been devoted all summer to contest preparation. Iâm not sure itâs worth it.
      >
      > 4.      Thanks for your estimate that 40% of district resources go into the convention. We know that 25% of chapters send choruses to compete.  If about half of our energy is going into X, shouldnât half of our members be taking advantage of X? The 40% - 25% ratio seems a little off.
      >
      > 5.      Youâll be glad to know that I AM involved. I was the staging chair for our recent convention and have the bad back to prove it. (I also provided contest programs when the District ran out.)
      >

      >
      > Gary Davis, Land of Lincoln Chorus
      >

      >
      > From: sct060@... [mailto:sct060@...]
      > Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:50 PM
      > To: Gary Davis; bbshop@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: bang for the buck has always intrigued me
      >

      >
      > Based on what I have seen, not even close.  I was president of two cha
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >







      Messages in this topic (13)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________
      2a. Re: BQPA/Pioneers Fall Festival
          Posted by: "Jack W. Martin" jackwmartin@... jmartin303832
          Date: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:51 pm ((PDT))

      Nice write up Tom!

      It might be good to consider sending this report on to the district
      bulletin editors i.e.
      FWD, RMD, AND ILD.  I suspect you are one step ahead of me and are doing
      this as I speak ;-). We might want to send it to LOL also, since we got
      such a large group of guys that attends our festivals.  Oh yes, also to
      Lorin May for Harmonizer.

      I shared fellowship with Marty Monson our new Society CEO this past weekend
      at our Dixie District Convention in Tunica, Miss.  Nice guy and I feel he
      will be good for the Society.

      Thanks for editing my history submission. I think Jim did and excellent job.
      In Harmony
      Jack

      On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 2:06 PM, tsnobleiv <popziv@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Well, another excellent Festival of "do-it-yerself" quartetting in the old
      > style has chordially come, and alas, gone. Close to 75 singers and guests
      > populated the BQPA/Pioneers' room at the Hillside Best Western, just
      > outside of Chicago, for our traditional "pick-up" quartet contest Friday
      > evening, the 7th of September, and nearly 100 were on hand for our Saturday
      > evening parade of quartets.
      >
      > Folks arrived even earlier than Wednesday of the Fall Festival week
      > (always the long weekend AFTER Labor Day) to permit a visit to the Village
      > Vocal Chords (Harmony, Inc.) rehearsal Tuesday evening. Wednesday saw the
      > arrival of the golfing barbershoppers who would be leaving for the links
      > early Thursday morning. Registration opened Thursday afternoon, and
      > quartetting really got underway, with folks putting their names in the
      > voice-part bags for the pick-up quartet contest to be held Friday evening.
      >
      > Friday itself dawned very wet, but as soon as the golfers decided not to
      > play, the weather cleared. So some of them left for late tee-times, and
      > professed to have had good rounds when they returned late in the day. By
      > that time, the pick-up quartets had been drawn, so golfers and everyone
      > else scrambled about, trying to find their other three voice-parts.
      > Rehearsals for the competition then continued until moments before the
      > contest started.
      >
      > The competition was fierce and well-fought, resulting in the presentation
      > of medals to the champs, who were very well-received. Woodshedding and
      > other informal quartet singing then resumed and went on into the wee hours.
      >
      > On Saturday evening, seven quartets appeared in a parade which featured
      > Easy Days (LOL District), from Greendale, Wisconsin. Most of the other
      > groups were from the local Chicago area, although one, Random Sample,
      > consisted of gents from the Minneapolis area who regularly attend our
      > Festivals.
      >
      > The next BQPA/Pioneers Festival was announced for the Spring of 2013. It
      > will be held at the Embassy Suites in Tempe, AZ, April 10th through the
      > 14th. If you enjoy singing in quartets, with no pressure or assigned music,
      > please join us in Tempe. You can find details on the BQPA/Pioneers website,
      > www.BQPA.com. Come join us next April!
      >
      > Tom Noble, President
      > BQPA/Pioneers
      >

      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      Messages in this topic (2)





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