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Re: Quartet Procedure Question

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  • David
    OK, not being a lawyer, I ll concede that they are probably quite different from a legal sense. But ethically, they are the same. As such, I d feel morally
    Message 1 of 31 , Jan 2, 2012
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      OK, not being a lawyer, I'll concede that they are probably quite different from a legal sense. But ethically, they are the same. As such, I'd feel morally justified in not voluntarily giving a penny to someone who walked out on his obligations, though I would relent if a lawyer I trusted told me I had to.

      Ennyway, enough said by me (some would probaby say too much!). Thanks for your scholarly and level-headed responses, Helen!

      Dave G.

      --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, GSBMedalMusic@... wrote:
      > It IS MUCH different because the chapters are
      > 501(c)3 non-profit registered entities
      > and they jump through great hoops to do so (or
      > the international has done so on their behalf by creating
      > all the rules for chapter governance with a board
      > of directors or team leadership, annual business meetings
      > to that effect, standing rules, etc.). Chapters
      > CAN offset expenses of their members
      > by purchasing or subsidizing a portion of their
      > international or district contest registrations,
      > funding uniforms/costumes, and so forth and so
      > the members often get a little of their
      > chapter dues coming back at them that round-about way.
      > Quartets are de facto "for profit" entities.
      > Whether they actually end up in the red OR the black on the bank
      > account balance sheet does not in any way legally
      > define the nature of the quartet organization to be "non-profit".
      > The reason I keep saying "partnership" is because
      > that is the typical way that quartets
      > register with the IRS to get EIN numbers and open
      > bank accounts with signature cards, etc..
      > Very few go through the bother of becoming "Inc."
      > or LLC etc. unless they expect
      > to be raking in enough show fees to warrant setting up such a
      > more legal structure that helps deal with taxation issues (over time).
      > I've never heard of a quartet that even tried going 501(c)3 non-profit?!
      > The departing member (as I said prior) generally
      > has no MONETARY stake in the coming gigs - he just walked
      > away from that, and, as such, is owed nothing
      > from here on in UNLESS he would agree to do the gigs and help
      > finish out the schedule that he agreed to when
      > the quartet took on those gigs, but he would certainly
      > have a very justifiable 25% stake in any fees
      > that he helped earn in the past that went towards
      > the purchase of quartet assets.
      > - Helen Giallombardo
      > At 07:26 PM 1/2/2012, David wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >I was in the same situation maaaaaany years ago,
      > >so I'm not exactly unbiased. In fact, I'm still
      > >PO'd after all these years, sad to say. So take
      > >the following with a grain of salt:
      > >
      > >a) In absence of an "understanding" ahead of
      > >time between its members, the quartet should own
      > >all assets paid for with quartet money. If the
      > >quartet were breaking up, then the assets should
      > >be divided equally, but in this case, the
      > >quartet still exists. If you paid out of your
      > >own pockets, I'd lean in the other direction, but you didn't.
      > >
      > >This would be no different from a chapter with a
      > >chorus. A departing member wouldn't be eligible
      > >for a share of the chapter's money just because
      > >he sang with the chorus in paid shows. Nor would
      > >he be eligible for recompense for outfits that the chapter loaned to him.
      > >
      > >b) You're probably not going to take him to
      > >court, so buying them back might be the sensible
      > >approach -- IF he'll part with them for
      > >significantly less than the replacement cost.
      > >
      > >BUT -- the departing quartet member seriously
      > >defaulted on his obligations, so my gut reaction
      > >is that he shouldn't get a nickel from the rest
      > >of you. In fact, in a truly fair universe, he'd
      > >be on the hook to reimburse the quartet and the
      > >people who hired the quartet for any lost revenues due to his departure.
      > >
      > >But that's "hot-head Dave" speaking. So, cooler heads, and all that ...
      > >
      > >Dave G.
      > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: providenceguyri<SingNBC@>
      > > > To: bbshop<<mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com>bbshop@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 3:34 pm
      > > > Subject: [bbshop] Quartet Procedure Question
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Recently a member of my Quartet quit without any notice.
      > > > Leaving us to fill 7 gigs in 9 days. Just a little bit
      > > > unprofessional. But I digress. My question -
      > > > The Quartet paid for all of our outfits and we would like
      > > > all of the outfits back so that we can use them with our
      > > > next member (they just happen to be the
      > > > same size). The problem.....the former member wants us to
      > > > buy the items back from him.
      > > > Are there any standard practises that address this issue?
      > > > Steve
      > > > Providence, RI
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Charlie Davenport
      Dave, I don t have a set of rules in front of me, but I am sure that to cross the stage as a performer, you must be a member or Associate member (Director)...
      Message 31 of 31 , Jan 5, 2012
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        Dave, I don't have a set of rules in front of me, but I am sure that to cross the stage as a performer, you must be a member or Associate member (Director)...

        AND, keep in mind as a Board Member now, you have fiduciary responsibilities. If we have non-dues-paying members with no tickets purchased, how do you account for their incurred expenses, and their lack of contribution toward profits?

        It would be great if the entire Barbershop experience were free and had no restrictions, but that lotter ticket has yet been won.

        All the reasons for "eval only" are right on the money, but we must use our judges to evaluate members, otherwise, we are not being fair to our members.

        Charlie Davenport
        Anything I win above $200 million will go toward making Barbershop a much less expensive thing...

        --- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, Dave Jacobs <g8r10r@...> wrote:
        > Exactly, Neil. A chorus with non-members on stage would be disqualified
        > from "the contest". But, it shouldn't preclude them from singing on-stage
        > for evaluation only, which, by definition, is not scored as part of the
        > contest. (C&J community, feel free to chime in if I'm wrong here.)
        > Each singer would probably need to purchase a convention registration, but
        > that could probably be waived since they are not "competing". (I can't
        > remember of the top of my head if the convention registration requirement
        > is a C&J requirement, or a Society rule to exempt the contest from ASCAP
        > fees.)
        > Hey, imagine having a Youth Harmony Festival just before your next district
        > convention, then inviting the Boys Chorus to mic test for the chorus
        > contest. Heck have the girls chorus sing, too. What would you risk -
        > extra single event ticket sales to family members? ...just brainstorming,
        > here.
        > Dave
        > On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Neil Keihm <keihm@...> wrote:
        > > Dave,
        > >
        > > If you are not a member, you are not eligible to enter the contest.
        > >
        > > Neil
        > >
        > --
        > Dave Jacobs
        > Musical Director - Barbergator Chorus
        > Sunshine District - VP of Chorus Director Development
        > Advancement Coordinator - BSA Troop 454
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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