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107701Re: [bbshop] Web Cast & Stuff

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  • u370872
    Jul 12, 2013
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      Hi Jeremy et al - lots of questions here!

      1 - is there a RULE about the total amount of time onstage?

      Answer - no. SCJC has instituted no time limits on the performance - it
      just has to be 2 songs. We believe that this is ultimately self-policing,
      inasmuch as overlong performances will wear on the audiences and judges alike.
      We see some result along those lines with Salem this year.

      2 - How about time limits on setup and strike? Again - no rule. What there
      IS is something called "shared responsibilities" (which Bruce summed up
      nicely), which up until the events of this year ASKED the competitors to
      adhere to certain overall time limits in terms of the moment they stepped onto
      the stage until the last person exits. Those time limits were certainly
      blown away by some of the performances noted here, and likely even overstepped
      by choruses who opted for longer artistic presentations. This is the
      slippery slope where we have to be careful about blending administrative and
      artistic concerns/penalties/guidelines. You need to consider the unintended
      consequences - what if there are technical issues backstage? Who is going to
      adjudicate who's fault it is? Do we really want to levy a point penalty in
      say, Presentation, or across the artistic categories because a chorus
      dawdled backstage? Can you imagine the issues of fairness this could raise?

      What if a chorus member gets hurt or takes ill getting on or off the
      risers? Do we now have to hurriedly bundle him off because otherwise we are
      getting penalties?

      Again, this may sound preposterous, but we need to be aware of the
      potential issues. Seems like we would now have to station judges backstage to
      verify whose"fault" the delay is!

      3 - As far as the non-member rule in reference to AVP. I will say that this
      WAS discussed immediately after their performance, and as is always the
      case with our current judging community, the competitor is granted the
      benefit of the doubt. Did Becky Hine direct enough? The point was made she
      directed AT LEAST as much as Clay did in that first song. Could it be argued that
      AVP gamed the system? Sure - it could be, but "could" is not enough to
      penalize. These decision will continue to be made in real time and there is no
      one absolute quantifiable measure of when the letter of the law is met -
      it will continue to be a judgment call.

      It's always easier to criticize these decisions with the benefit of
      hindsight, but please remember the judging community is not first and foremost
      policemen - we are acolytes and supporters (and yes, guardians of the style),
      but we are also competitors ourselves, and with that comes a level of
      empathy for other competitors!

      Seems like it sure didn't help AVP much, tho.


      In a message dated 7/12/2013 12:47:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      bbs10rfl@... writes:

      That's interesting that there is a rule. Are there any penalties associated
      with this rule? Points lost? If so, how did the Allies get fifth? They
      didn't have 90 on stage and yet used more than 16 minutes just to get on
      stage. Salem used 16 minutes (I'm guessing) before they uttered a note.
      Now don't get me wrong. I'm not opposed to comedy, or schtick to use the
      Yiddish term. I loved the green army, the fish, even the penguins that
      Greendale did. I loved the bling and the light show that GNU did last year.
      I loved the vegetable package of TNL. I'm just saying that you have to have
      some respect for your audience. Please note also that I am not criticizing
      the probably over-long ballad of Westminster. Long, yes - but good,
      entertaining, and in perfect keeping with their package - and they didn't
      make the audience wait over-long for it to get started. I don't want to
      limit the actual presentation, only the set-up/take-down time.

      Speaking of rules. How about AVP's use of a woman who is NOT specifically a
      director? They identified her as a director. She lifted her arms (as if
      directing) a time or two but most of the time she was an actor in the scene
      - not a director. Boy was that pushing the envelope! It's probably good
      that I was not a PRS judge. I would probably have DQed them. I heard
      others in the hall saying the same thing. I've seen lots of contest
      presentations that would have been enhanced by having a woman on stage. So
      all we have to do is call her a director, let her sashay across the stage
      be the object of the love song and it's OK? Do we really want to go there?
      If so, let's change the rules and say we can use women as props or scenery
      or whatever as long as they don't sing.

      Jeremy Reynolds

      From: Bruce [mailto:_bruce.checca@..._
      (mailto:bruce.checca@...) ]
      Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 10:12 AM
      To: Jeremy Reynolds
      Cc: _bbshop@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com)
      Subject: Re: [bbshop] Web Cast & Stuff

      There IS a written, but unenforced "rule" that you have a time limit based
      on the size of the chorus performing...
      under 50 = 12 minutes, 50-90 = 14 minutes, 90 or more = 16 minutes
      this is SUPPOSE to be from the first man stepping on stage until the last
      man leaves, including set up time... it makes no mention of actual
      performing time.

      Some people questioned that last year after Salem's performance.... and I
      think you see in their scores this year a form of unofficial penalty
      they violated the spirit of the thing again... but it wasn't applied to
      everyone it seems.

      It seems that the groups are really pushing the envelope in the non-singing
      areas... things like the full stage circus production from Alliance (time)
      to the Salem monks package (time) to the AVP Tony Bennett / Snidley
      set (use of "props"?).

      Bruce Checca
      Tavernier, FL

      On 7/12/2013 8:07 AM, Jeremy Reynolds wrote:

      Personally, I don't care how long a chorus sings. When we had time limits,
      it was very limiting. HOWEVER (yes, I'm shouting), I think there should be
      a time limit for setting up and tearing down. When The New Tradition Chorus
      did the Les Mis package, we took on 8 or 10 platforms and enough backing
      material to build a barricade for the uprising and we did it and got 140
      on stage in approximately 3 minutes. We got off the stage in about the same
      time. We planned ahead for it and practiced it many times before we ever
      got to the contest arena. Look how quickly Greendale got their entire green
      army onto the stage even though their entire front row had their feet bound
      together. I don't know exactly what the time limit should be but perhaps
      three or four minutes (from the time the previous chorus has left the
      or from the time the next chorus is given permission to enter) should be
      enough. Anything more is just an insult to the audience.

      I understand that Alliance had a problem with chokepoints and had to
      disassemble their circus tent and re-assemble it on stage. They should have
      asked permission to measure the path to the stage ahead of time so that
      would know just what they could and couldn't do and take steps ahead of
      time. Bad logistics! And probably bad planning to have parts that were too
      big for anything. A chorus can certainly put on a circus set without the
      elaborate tent! We barbershop audiences have good imaginations. We can
      understand implied scenery. TNL could have built a barn to show that their
      set was occurring on a farm. We didn't need that. We got the vegetable
      garden with only the fences in front of the sunflowers and the costumes.

      The Senate-Aires were something else, however. They didn't have elaborate
      sets. They just (IMNSHO) did a boring job of getting onto the stage and
      took way, way, way tooooooooo long to do it. We got the joke in the first
      minute. It wasn't funny after that.

      Jeremy Reynolds

      From: _bbshop@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com)
      [mailto:_bbshop@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com)
      <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
      John Flynn
      Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 9:20 AM
      To: 'Steve McCullough'; _schofield749@..._
      <mailto:schofield749%40btinternet.com> ; _bbshop@yahoogroups.com_
      Cc: 'John Flynn'
      Subject: RE: [bbshop] Web Cast & Stuff

      I disagree with blaming the choruses for time delays in setting up for
      performances. I would first look to inadequacies in the venues needed to
      support the growing level of performance creativity that is essential to
      sustaining interest by the performers and the audience. The bar keeps
      getting raised - and that is a good thing. You may still enjoy a good movie
      made in the 50's, but in general the production values in the movie
      have increased dramatically. I think the first order of business is for the
      society to prioritize the importance of the selected venues in the future
      be able to support the increasing levels of production value for which the
      top choruses will continue to strive to obtain.

      John Flynn
      Sarasota Chorus of the Keys

      From: _bbshop@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com)
      <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com>
      [mailto:_bbshop@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com)
      <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
      Of Steve McCullough
      Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 9:42 PM
      To: _schofield749@..._ (mailto:schofield749@...)
      <mailto:schofield749%40btinternet.com> ;
      _bbshop@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com)
      <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:bbshop%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [bbshop] Web Cast & Stuff


      Time Limits:
      I'm totally in favor of a time limit. My chorus ran repetitive drills of
      package (including getting on and off the stage) to make sure that we were
      at the "recommended" time for a chorus of our size. Our props were all
      designed for quick assembly and disassembly. Our music was also planned to
      fit us in the recommended time limit. Then we show up and see choruses
      totally exceed those recommendations with NO ramifications. Now, sometimes
      things happen in live theater. I heard the circus tent set could not fit
      through the doors and choke points at the back of the stage and they had to
      break it down and reassemble on each side of the door. If that is the case,
      I guess they did what they could to still be able to perform, but I believe
      that all of the choruses were told far in advance what the stage dimensions
      and choke point dimensions were going to be, and that there would be no
      curtain. We knew it, we planned for it, so it was not a
      problem for us.

      I fully appreciate a good presentation and that an epic performance may
      some time to setup. I am sure that they worked very hard on their packages.
      They were definitely creative. Having said that, I am in favor of having
      time limit rules, not suggestions, with point penalties for those found
      guilty of this theatrical malfeasance.

      On the point of the interviews, I was in one. It seemed fine to me.

      That is just my opinion. It's not gospel. Thank you for your time.

      Steve McCullough
      Circle City Sound (Greater Indianapolis Chapter in the Cardinal District)

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