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Re: [BYOR] Running on empty

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  • benoit turcot
    Thanks to all, I managed to bleed the air bubbles from the bleeding point (above the oil port) using the lever on the left. But I was not able to bleed
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 1, 2009
      Thanks to all,

      I managed to bleed the air bubbles from the bleeding point (above the oil port) using the lever on the left.

      But I was not able to bleed anything else.  It seems that the compression lever can not be lifted all the way up because it is stopped by the roof of the motor housing (cockpit floor).  Anyway I did crank by hand with the handle with considerable effort, nothing came out of what I assume is the second bleeding point.  I decided to use the electric starter 3 times for about 5 sec. each: no diesel running, but the engine seemed to run ok.  So I tightened the screw, and re-started the engine which ran fine for 10 min. in neutral. 

      May I consider my problem solved ?  Or am I to optimistic ?1?

      Ben
      Deneb

      --- En date de : Jeu, 27.8.09, singa8raja <singa8raja@...> a écrit :

      De: singa8raja <singa8raja@...>
      Objet: Re: [BYOR] Running on empty
      À: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
      Date: jeudi 27 Août 2009, 12 h 10






       





      Ben



      I have downloaded some photos to a new album "1 GM" copied from the manual instructions for bleeding and some photos of my engine showing the bleed points and priming lever. (you may need to view in the "large" size view available if you go to the album name first)



      When I reinstalled the engine I used the priming lever to bleed to points 1 & 2, and used the hand crank to bleed to 3 - the starter switch is out of reach if you are alone. If you hold the compression relief lever with one hand, the engine turns easily. Wrapping a paper towel under the bleed point helps to view and contain fuel.



      The fuel tank in my B25 was replaced prior to purchase, but I assume it was made very similar to the old - it holds 40 litres, which I check with a dipstick occasionally, plus log engine hours. Overall fuel usage is around .5 litres/hour, up to about 1 litre/hour for extended motoring at 5knots/2500rpm, the level the engine seems most comfortable at.



      Dick

      B25 Marling

      Parksville, VI



      > Any comment welcome regarding the fuel tank volume, fuel consumption,

      > bleeding procedure after running on empty.

      >

      > Thank you

      >

      > Ben





























      Devenez un meilleur amigo grâce à Yahoo! Courriel
      http://cf.promos.yahoo.com/courriel/visiteguidee2/

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • George Hirsch
      You re good. Enjoy. George ________________________________ From: benoit turcot To: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday,
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 1, 2009
        You're good.

        Enjoy.

        George




        ________________________________
        From: benoit turcot <turcotbenoit@...>
        To: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 8:40:16 AM
        Subject: Re: [BYOR] Running on empty

         
        Thanks to all,

        I managed to bleed the air bubbles from the bleeding point (above the oil port) using the lever on the left.

        But I was not able to bleed anything else.  It seems that the compression lever can not be lifted all the way up because it is stopped by the roof of the motor housing (cockpit floor).  Anyway I did crank by hand with the handle with considerable effort, nothing came out of what I assume is the second bleeding point.  I decided to use the electric starter 3 times for about 5 sec. each: no diesel running, but the engine seemed to run ok.  So I tightened the screw, and re-started the engine which ran fine for 10 min. in neutral. 

        May I consider my problem solved ?  Or am I to optimistic ?1?

        Ben
        Deneb

        --- En date de : Jeu, 27.8.09, singa8raja <singa8raja@yahoo. ca> a écrit :

        De: singa8raja <singa8raja@yahoo. ca>
        Objet: Re: [BYOR] Running on empty
        À: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: jeudi 27 Août 2009, 12 h 10

         

        Ben

        I have downloaded some photos to a new album "1 GM" copied from the manual instructions for bleeding and some photos of my engine showing the bleed points and priming lever. (you may need to view in the "large" size view available if you go to the album name first)

        When I reinstalled the engine I used the priming lever to bleed to points 1 & 2, and used the hand crank to bleed to 3 - the starter switch is out of reach if you are alone. If you hold the compression relief lever with one hand, the engine turns easily. Wrapping a paper towel under the bleed point helps to view and contain fuel.

        The fuel tank in my B25 was replaced prior to purchase, but I assume it was made very similar to the old - it holds 40 litres, which I check with a dipstick occasionally, plus log engine hours. Overall fuel usage is around .5 litres/hour, up to about 1 litre/hour for extended motoring at 5knots/2500rpm, the level the engine seems most comfortable at.

        Dick

        B25 Marling

        Parksville, VI

        > Any comment welcome regarding the fuel tank volume, fuel consumption,

        > bleeding procedure after running on empty.

        >

        > Thank you

        >

        > Ben











        Devenez un meilleur amigo grâce à Yahoo! Courriel
        http://cf.promos yahoo.com/ courriel/ visiteguidee2/

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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      • LADY_M
        Depending on your boat s fuel system design, it could take more than 10 min for all the air bubbles trapped inside to come up. I always run my engine for at
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 1, 2009
          Depending on your boat's fuel system design, it could take more than 10 min for all the air bubbles trapped inside to come up. I always run my engine for at least 30min after bleeding. I would rather have the engine stall at the slip than in a seaway. The installation of a manual pump (like those on outbords gas tanks) following the Racor filter would make it easier for you to bleed your system.

          Gilles




          ________________________________
          From: benoit turcot <turcotbenoit@...>
          To: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 9:40:16 AM
          Subject: Re: [BYOR] Running on empty

           
          Thanks to all,

          I managed to bleed the air bubbles from the bleeding point (above the oil port) using the lever on the left.

          But I was not able to bleed anything else.  It seems that the compression lever can not be lifted all the way up because it is stopped by the roof of the motor housing (cockpit floor).  Anyway I did crank by hand with the handle with considerable effort, nothing came out of what I assume is the second bleeding point.  I decided to use the electric starter 3 times for about 5 sec. each: no diesel running, but the engine seemed to run ok.  So I tightened the screw, and re-started the engine which ran fine for 10 min. in neutral. 

          May I consider my problem solved ?  Or am I to optimistic ?1?

          Ben
          Deneb

          --- En date de : Jeu, 27.8.09, singa8raja <singa8raja@yahoo. ca> a écrit :

          De: singa8raja <singa8raja@yahoo. ca>
          Objet: Re: [BYOR] Running on empty
          À: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com
          Date: jeudi 27 Août 2009, 12 h 10

           

          Ben

          I have downloaded some photos to a new album "1 GM" copied from the manual instructions for bleeding and some photos of my engine showing the bleed points and priming lever. (you may need to view in the "large" size view available if you go to the album name first)

          When I reinstalled the engine I used the priming lever to bleed to points 1 & 2, and used the hand crank to bleed to 3 - the starter switch is out of reach if you are alone. If you hold the compression relief lever with one hand, the engine turns easily. Wrapping a paper towel under the bleed point helps to view and contain fuel.

          The fuel tank in my B25 was replaced prior to purchase, but I assume it was made very similar to the old - it holds 40 litres, which I check with a dipstick occasionally, plus log engine hours. Overall fuel usage is around .5 litres/hour, up to about 1 litre/hour for extended motoring at 5knots/2500rpm, the level the engine seems most comfortable at.

          Dick

          B25 Marling

          Parksville, VI

          > Any comment welcome regarding the fuel tank volume, fuel consumption,

          > bleeding procedure after running on empty.

          >

          > Thank you

          >

          > Ben











          Devenez un meilleur amigo grâce à Yahoo! Courriel
          http://cf.promos yahoo.com/ courriel/ visiteguidee2/

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          __________________________________________________________________
          Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • George Hirsch
          That manual pump is a good idea for pushing fuel through, Gilles; I use the vacuum oil change pump to pull the fuel through (all of the filters, lines and
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 1, 2009
            That manual pump is a good idea for pushing fuel through, Gilles; I use the vacuum oil change pump to "pull" the fuel through (all of the filters, lines and pumps) at the furthest possible point and then it primes and starts effortlessly without a hiccup. This method also works well when you have drawn water into your fuel system, to pull out all of the unwanted stuff.

            10 minutes is a long time to run with air in the system... although I do agree, that it is better to quit in the slip then while cruising among rocks or other boats!

            Hope this helps.




            ________________________________
            From: LADY_M <bayfield_ladym@...>
            To: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 12:38:51 PM
            Subject: Re: [BYOR] Running on empty

             
            Depending on your boat's fuel system design, it could take more than 10 min for all the air bubbles trapped inside to come up. I always run my engine for at least 30min after bleeding. I would rather have the engine stall at the slip than in a seaway. The installation of a manual pump (like those on outbords gas tanks) following the Racor filter would make it easier for you to bleed your system.

            Gilles

            ____________ _________ _________ __
            From: benoit turcot <turcotbenoit@ yahoo.ca>
            To: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 9:40:16 AM
            Subject: Re: [BYOR] Running on empty

             
            Thanks to all,

            I managed to bleed the air bubbles from the bleeding point (above the oil port) using the lever on the left.

            But I was not able to bleed anything else.  It seems that the compression lever can not be lifted all the way up because it is stopped by the roof of the motor housing (cockpit floor).  Anyway I did crank by hand with the handle with considerable effort, nothing came out of what I assume is the second bleeding point.  I decided to use the electric starter 3 times for about 5 sec. each: no diesel running, but the engine seemed to run ok.  So I tightened the screw, and re-started the engine which ran fine for 10 min. in neutral. 

            May I consider my problem solved ?  Or am I to optimistic ?1?

            Ben
            Deneb

            --- En date de : Jeu, 27.8.09, singa8raja <singa8raja@ yahoo. ca> a écrit :

            De: singa8raja <singa8raja@ yahoo. ca>
            Objet: Re: [BYOR] Running on empty
            À: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com
            Date: jeudi 27 Août 2009, 12 h 10

             

            Ben

            I have downloaded some photos to a new album "1 GM" copied from the manual instructions for bleeding and some photos of my engine showing the bleed points and priming lever. (you may need to view in the "large" size view available if you go to the album name first)

            When I reinstalled the engine I used the priming lever to bleed to points 1 & 2, and used the hand crank to bleed to 3 - the starter switch is out of reach if you are alone. If you hold the compression relief lever with one hand, the engine turns easily. Wrapping a paper towel under the bleed point helps to view and contain fuel.

            The fuel tank in my B25 was replaced prior to purchase, but I assume it was made very similar to the old - it holds 40 litres, which I check with a dipstick occasionally, plus log engine hours. Overall fuel usage is around .5 litres/hour, up to about 1 litre/hour for extended motoring at 5knots/2500rpm, the level the engine seems most comfortable at.

            Dick

            B25 Marling

            Parksville, VI

            > Any comment welcome regarding the fuel tank volume, fuel consumption,

            > bleeding procedure after running on empty.

            >

            > Thank you

            >

            > Ben

            Devenez un meilleur amigo grâce à Yahoo! Courriel
            http://cf.promos yahoo.com/ courriel/ visiteguidee2/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
            Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now
            http://ca.toolbar yahoo.com.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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          • benoit turcot
            Next week-end, I ll have the engine run on at the slip longer, certainly I d rather have the hiccup attack there than anywhere else... I will be taking a
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 1, 2009
              Next week-end, I'll have the engine run on at the slip longer, certainly I'd rather have the hiccup attack there than anywhere else...

              I will be taking a diesel engine maintenance course, starting tomorrow: 8 nights of 3 hours each.  I will enquire about the extra pump, its seems that it should perhaps be a standard feature.

              In the mean time, I will gradually fill the tank with 10 liters at a time and I will mark on the small wooden stick with a sharp knife those 10 l increments.  I will obtain the volume of the tank which is probably what I read in a previous post (approx 40 liters).  Knowing the capacity and the consumption, and a log of the running hours, I shall never - I repeat - never run out of fuel.

              Now, how about french fries oil ?  Some VW diesel car are be converted to run on vegetable oil.  So you cook deep fried food one night, the following day, you run your engine with the waste oil !  Sounds crazy, but...

              Ben
              Deneb

              --- En date de : Mar, 1.9.09, George Hirsch <b32george@...> a écrit :

              De: George Hirsch <b32george@...>
              Objet: Re: [BYOR] Running on empty
              À: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
              Date: mardi 1 Septembre 2009, 13 h 03






               





              That manual pump is a good idea for pushing fuel through, Gilles; I use the vacuum oil change pump to "pull" the fuel through (all of the filters, lines and pumps) at the furthest possible point and then it primes and starts effortlessly without a hiccup. This method also works well when you have drawn water into your fuel system, to pull out all of the unwanted stuff.



              10 minutes is a long time to run with air in the system... although I do agree, that it is better to quit in the slip then while cruising among rocks or other boats!



              Hope this helps.



              ____________ _________ _________ __

              From: LADY_M <bayfield_ladym@ yahoo.ca>

              To: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com

              Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 12:38:51 PM

              Subject: Re: [BYOR] Running on empty



               

              Depending on your boat's fuel system design, it could take more than 10 min for all the air bubbles trapped inside to come up. I always run my engine for at least 30min after bleeding. I would rather have the engine stall at the slip than in a seaway. The installation of a manual pump (like those on outbords gas tanks) following the Racor filter would make it easier for you to bleed your system.



              Gilles



              ____________ _________ _________ __

              From: benoit turcot <turcotbenoit@ yahoo.ca>

              To: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com

              Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 9:40:16 AM

              Subject: Re: [BYOR] Running on empty



               

              Thanks to all,



              I managed to bleed the air bubbles from the bleeding point (above the oil port) using the lever on the left.



              But I was not able to bleed anything else.  It seems that the compression lever can not be lifted all the way up because it is stopped by the roof of the motor housing (cockpit floor).  Anyway I did crank by hand with the handle with considerable effort, nothing came out of what I assume is the second bleeding point.  I decided to use the electric starter 3 times for about 5 sec. each: no diesel running, but the engine seemed to run ok.  So I tightened the screw, and re-started the engine which ran fine for 10 min. in neutral. 



              May I consider my problem solved ?  Or am I to optimistic ?1?



              Ben

              Deneb



              --- En date de : Jeu, 27.8.09, singa8raja <singa8raja@ yahoo. ca> a écrit :



              De: singa8raja <singa8raja@ yahoo. ca>

              Objet: Re: [BYOR] Running on empty

              À: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com

              Date: jeudi 27 Août 2009, 12 h 10



               



              Ben



              I have downloaded some photos to a new album "1 GM" copied from the manual instructions for bleeding and some photos of my engine showing the bleed points and priming lever. (you may need to view in the "large" size view available if you go to the album name first)



              When I reinstalled the engine I used the priming lever to bleed to points 1 & 2, and used the hand crank to bleed to 3 - the starter switch is out of reach if you are alone. If you hold the compression relief lever with one hand, the engine turns easily. Wrapping a paper towel under the bleed point helps to view and contain fuel.



              The fuel tank in my B25 was replaced prior to purchase, but I assume it was made very similar to the old - it holds 40 litres, which I check with a dipstick occasionally, plus log engine hours. Overall fuel usage is around .5 litres/hour, up to about 1 litre/hour for extended motoring at 5knots/2500rpm, the level the engine seems most comfortable at.



              Dick



              B25 Marling



              Parksville, VI



              > Any comment welcome regarding the fuel tank volume, fuel consumption,



              > bleeding procedure after running on empty.



              >



              > Thank you



              >



              > Ben



              Devenez un meilleur amigo grâce à Yahoo! Courriel

              http://cf.promos. yahoo.com/ courriel/ visiteguidee2/



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

              Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now

              http://ca.toolbar. yahoo.com.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

              Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads. yahoo.com/ ca/internetexplo rer/



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              Devenez un meilleur amigo grâce à Yahoo! Courriel
              http://cf.promos.yahoo.com/courriel/visiteguidee2/

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Don
              ... I recently replaced our primary fuel filter with a Racor-Parker spin-on unit that has a built-in pump. I was able to pull fuel up from the tank and bleed
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 1, 2009
                benoit turcot wrote:

                > tomorrow: 8 nights of 3 hours each. I will enquire about the extra
                > pump, its seems that it should perhaps be a standard feature.
                >


                I recently replaced our primary fuel filter with a Racor-Parker spin-on
                unit that has a built-in pump. I was able to pull fuel up from the tank
                and bleed the fuel system using this pump. I think it was about us$80
                for the complete unit.

                Don.
              • Bruce Forbes
                I started having engine issues earlier in the season and it really all points to fuel.  Basically after running for about 90 minutes the engine started to
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 2, 2009
                  I started having engine issues earlier in the season and it really all points to fuel.  Basically after running for about 90 minutes the engine started to drop RPM.  If I throttled down and waited a few minutes I would then be able to run 2500rpm for another 10 or 20 minutes.  Eventually it got to the stage that it would barely even run when in gear and even at the end could barely maintain idle in neutral.  I did manage to get home when the wind picked up slightly and the odd thing was as I turned to pull into my slip the engine smoothed right out and ran perfectly (even at 2500 RPM) in my slip.

                  I can run at high revs in my slip, in reverse (med moored so forward is not really an option) for 30 minutes without a problem.  If I take the boat out for a run it typically dsplays the symptom in about 10 minutes.

                  The boat came with and ran on the following fuel system configuration (BTW this is a Yanmar 4JHE):

                  Tank then an electric fuel pump, racor water separator filter, another racor water seperator, mechanical lift pump on engine then the final filter on the engine.

                  I ran a new fuel line from the tank to the second racor water separator thus eliminating th eelectric fuel pump and first filter.  It seems better but still I notice some issues.  The odd thing is that I was able to blow back through the fuel line into the tank.  Should there not be a check valve stopping me frmo doing that?  In this new config I now have trouble starting up the engine after it sits for a while as it it does not have fuel yet.  I'm wondering if the system is siphoning back into the tank?  Once I get it pumped up and running it seems fine (in the slip of course).

                  I am able to bleed it at the screw on the final filter but can't find any other bleed point beyond that.  I understand the system is "self-bleeding" but I'm not that confident that it really does.

                  Any ideas?

                  Bruce


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • JD Jamieson
                  Bruce Experienced both problems with mine twice on my trip from Lake Ontario to Georgian Bay in 2005. The first time it happened was in the Welland Canal
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 2, 2009
                    Bruce

                    Experienced both problems with mine twice on my trip from Lake Ontario to Georgian Bay in 2005. The first time it happened was in the Welland Canal which made things more interesting. Both times the tank was getting low and I suspect that the wave motion had stirred up some crap in the bottom of the tank. There may have still been some old US fuel in there which is a lower grade than ours as I had only had the boat for a year at that point and had not gone through the whole tank yet which could have compounded the problem. I have not experienced that problem since though.

                    The hard starting problem is the check valve. Had mine replaced and no more problems.

                    John


                    From: Bruce Forbes
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:45 AM
                    To: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue


                    I started having engine issues earlier in the season and it really all points to fuel. Basically after running for about 90 minutes the engine started to drop RPM. If I throttled down and waited a few minutes I would then be able to run 2500rpm for another 10 or 20 minutes. Eventually it got to the stage that it would barely even run when in gear and even at the end could barely maintain idle in neutral. I did manage to get home when the wind picked up slightly and the odd thing was as I turned to pull into my slip the engine smoothed right out and ran perfectly (even at 2500 RPM) in my slip.

                    I can run at high revs in my slip, in reverse (med moored so forward is not really an option) for 30 minutes without a problem. If I take the boat out for a run it typically dsplays the symptom in about 10 minutes.

                    The boat came with and ran on the following fuel system configuration (BTW this is a Yanmar 4JHE):

                    Tank then an electric fuel pump, racor water separator filter, another racor water seperator, mechanical lift pump on engine then the final filter on the engine.

                    I ran a new fuel line from the tank to the second racor water separator thus eliminating th eelectric fuel pump and first filter. It seems better but still I notice some issues. The odd thing is that I was able to blow back through the fuel line into the tank. Should there not be a check valve stopping me frmo doing that? In this new config I now have trouble starting up the engine after it sits for a while as it it does not have fuel yet. I'm wondering if the system is siphoning back into the tank? Once I get it pumped up and running it seems fine (in the slip of course).

                    I am able to bleed it at the screw on the final filter but can't find any other bleed point beyond that. I understand the system is "self-bleeding" but I'm not that confident that it really does.

                    Any ideas?

                    Bruce

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bruce Forbes
                    I actually replaced all the filters and pumped out all the old fuel so I know it s not that.  I wasn t sure if there was supposed to be a check valve or not
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 2, 2009
                      I actually replaced all the filters and pumped out all the old fuel so I know it's not that.  I wasn't sure if there was supposed to be a check valve or not but I guess you just confirmed it.  I haven't been able to find any info on it on the web (or even where to buy one) but I will now be on the hunt for a check valve to solve that problem.  I assume the check valve is in the elbow (or should be) at the top of the tank?

                      Do you have an electric fuel pump as well?  I believe mine is after-market (and maybe installed because of the failed check valve) as it is before the first filter and my understanding is that no pump should be before the first filter.




                      ________________________________
                      From: JD Jamieson <jdjamieson@...>
                      To: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 3:04:18 PM
                      Subject: Re: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue

                       
                      Bruce

                      Experienced both problems with mine twice on my trip from Lake Ontario to Georgian Bay in 2005. The first time it happened was in the Welland Canal which made things more interesting. Both times the tank was getting low and I suspect that the wave motion had stirred up some crap in the bottom of the tank. There may have still been some old US fuel in there which is a lower grade than ours as I had only had the boat for a year at that point and had not gone through the whole tank yet which could have compounded the problem. I have not experienced that problem since though.

                      The hard starting problem is the check valve. Had mine replaced and no more problems.

                      John

                      From: Bruce Forbes
                      Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:45 AM
                      To: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue

                      I started having engine issues earlier in the season and it really all points to fuel. Basically after running for about 90 minutes the engine started to drop RPM. If I throttled down and waited a few minutes I would then be able to run 2500rpm for another 10 or 20 minutes. Eventually it got to the stage that it would barely even run when in gear and even at the end could barely maintain idle in neutral. I did manage to get home when the wind picked up slightly and the odd thing was as I turned to pull into my slip the engine smoothed right out and ran perfectly (even at 2500 RPM) in my slip.

                      I can run at high revs in my slip, in reverse (med moored so forward is not really an option) for 30 minutes without a problem. If I take the boat out for a run it typically dsplays the symptom in about 10 minutes.

                      The boat came with and ran on the following fuel system configuration (BTW this is a Yanmar 4JHE):

                      Tank then an electric fuel pump, racor water separator filter, another racor water seperator, mechanical lift pump on engine then the final filter on the engine.

                      I ran a new fuel line from the tank to the second racor water separator thus eliminating th eelectric fuel pump and first filter. It seems better but still I notice some issues. The odd thing is that I was able to blow back through the fuel line into the tank. Should there not be a check valve stopping me frmo doing that? In this new config I now have trouble starting up the engine after it sits for a while as it it does not have fuel yet. I'm wondering if the system is siphoning back into the tank? Once I get it pumped up and running it seems fine (in the slip of course).

                      I am able to bleed it at the screw on the final filter but can't find any other bleed point beyond that. I understand the system is "self-bleeding" but I'm not that confident that it really does.

                      Any ideas?

                      Bruce

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • JD Jamieson
                      Have the same fuel pump configuration as you. Sound Boat Works in Parry Sound did the non return valve replacement. Gerry Shipman should be able to tell you
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 2, 2009
                        Have the same fuel pump configuration as you. Sound Boat Works in Parry Sound did the non return valve replacement. Gerry Shipman should be able to tell you what they put in and where.

                        http://www.soundboatworks.com/




                        From: Bruce Forbes
                        Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 3:12 PM
                        To: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue


                        I actually replaced all the filters and pumped out all the old fuel so I know it's not that. I wasn't sure if there was supposed to be a check valve or not but I guess you just confirmed it. I haven't been able to find any info on it on the web (or even where to buy one) but I will now be on the hunt for a check valve to solve that problem. I assume the check valve is in the elbow (or should be) at the top of the tank?

                        Do you have an electric fuel pump as well? I believe mine is after-market (and maybe installed because of the failed check valve) as it is before the first filter and my understanding is that no pump should be before the first filter.

                        ________________________________
                        From: JD Jamieson <jdjamieson@...>
                        To: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 3:04:18 PM
                        Subject: Re: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue


                        Bruce

                        Experienced both problems with mine twice on my trip from Lake Ontario to Georgian Bay in 2005. The first time it happened was in the Welland Canal which made things more interesting. Both times the tank was getting low and I suspect that the wave motion had stirred up some crap in the bottom of the tank. There may have still been some old US fuel in there which is a lower grade than ours as I had only had the boat for a year at that point and had not gone through the whole tank yet which could have compounded the problem. I have not experienced that problem since though.

                        The hard starting problem is the check valve. Had mine replaced and no more problems.

                        John

                        From: Bruce Forbes
                        Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:45 AM
                        To: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue

                        I started having engine issues earlier in the season and it really all points to fuel. Basically after running for about 90 minutes the engine started to drop RPM. If I throttled down and waited a few minutes I would then be able to run 2500rpm for another 10 or 20 minutes. Eventually it got to the stage that it would barely even run when in gear and even at the end could barely maintain idle in neutral. I did manage to get home when the wind picked up slightly and the odd thing was as I turned to pull into my slip the engine smoothed right out and ran perfectly (even at 2500 RPM) in my slip.

                        I can run at high revs in my slip, in reverse (med moored so forward is not really an option) for 30 minutes without a problem. If I take the boat out for a run it typically dsplays the symptom in about 10 minutes.

                        The boat came with and ran on the following fuel system configuration (BTW this is a Yanmar 4JHE):

                        Tank then an electric fuel pump, racor water separator filter, another racor water seperator, mechanical lift pump on engine then the final filter on the engine.

                        I ran a new fuel line from the tank to the second racor water separator thus eliminating th eelectric fuel pump and first filter. It seems better but still I notice some issues. The odd thing is that I was able to blow back through the fuel line into the tank. Should there not be a check valve stopping me frmo doing that? In this new config I now have trouble starting up the engine after it sits for a while as it it does not have fuel yet. I'm wondering if the system is siphoning back into the tank? Once I get it pumped up and running it seems fine (in the slip of course).

                        I am able to bleed it at the screw on the final filter but can't find any other bleed point beyond that. I understand the system is "self-bleeding" but I'm not that confident that it really does.

                        Any ideas?

                        Bruce

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Bob Simms
                        Bruce: I had a similar problem at the beginning of this season - after trying everything my only solution was to take out the tank and clean it - what a mess
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 8, 2009
                          Bruce:

                          I had a similar problem at the beginning of this season - after trying
                          everything my only solution was to take out the tank and clean it - what
                          a mess was inside it. Rinsed it in diesel and then gas a number of times
                          which did the trick. Just got back from a 600 mile trip (SW Coast of
                          Newfoundland) without a problem - other than hurricanes Bill and Danny :-)

                          Bob Simms
                          Labrador Dream


                          Bruce Forbes wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > I started having engine issues earlier in the season and it really all
                          > points to fuel. Basically after running for about 90 minutes the
                          > engine started to drop RPM. If I throttled down and waited a few
                          > minutes I would then be able to run 2500rpm for another 10 or 20
                          > minutes. Eventually it got to the stage that it would barely even run
                          > when in gear and even at the end could barely maintain idle in
                          > neutral. I did manage to get home when the wind picked up slightly
                          > and the odd thing was as I turned to pull into my slip the engine
                          > smoothed right out and ran perfectly (even at 2500 RPM) in my slip.
                          >
                          > I can run at high revs in my slip, in reverse (med moored so forward
                          > is not really an option) for 30 minutes without a problem. If I take
                          > the boat out for a run it typically dsplays the symptom in about 10
                          > minutes.
                          >
                          > The boat came with and ran on the following fuel system configuration
                          > (BTW this is a Yanmar 4JHE):
                          >
                          > Tank then an electric fuel pump, racor water separator filter, another
                          > racor water seperator, mechanical lift pump on engine then the final
                          > filter on the engine.
                          >
                          > I ran a new fuel line from the tank to the second racor water
                          > separator thus eliminating th eelectric fuel pump and first filter.
                          > It seems better but still I notice some issues. The odd thing is that
                          > I was able to blow back through the fuel line into the tank. Should
                          > there not be a check valve stopping me frmo doing that? In this new
                          > config I now have trouble starting up the engine after it sits for a
                          > while as it it does not have fuel yet. I'm wondering if the system is
                          > siphoning back into the tank? Once I get it pumped up and running it
                          > seems fine (in the slip of course).
                          >
                          > I am able to bleed it at the screw on the final filter but can't find
                          > any other bleed point beyond that. I understand the system is
                          > "self-bleeding" but I'm not that confident that it really does.
                          >
                          > Any ideas?
                          >
                          > Bruce
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                        • Bruce Forbes
                          Thanks.  I found the problem(s) and it is exactly what you would expect.  Crap in the tank clogged the check valve (which broke when I took it out).  From
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 8, 2009
                            Thanks.  I found the problem(s) and it is exactly what you would expect.  Crap in the tank clogged the check valve (which broke when I took it out).  From there it traveled to the electric fuel pump where, at it turns out, there is a filter built in (so the electric fuel pump is my primary filter!).  I re-configured so my electric pump is after my real primary filter but without the check valve it is unable to prime itself so for now I have gone one filter downstream and am running with just the mechanical lift pump.

                            Next years project is to cut an access hole in the top of the tank so I can clean the tank more effectively.  I might even put in a fuel guage while I'm at it (although I really do prefer the dipstick for accuracy).

                            Anyway... mystery solved.  Now I just have to figure out how best to configure my fuel system.  I spoke to a mechanic and his opinion was the check valve is a bad idea and especially bad in a Bayfield 36.  He said the best thing for a 36 was a stop cock which was less likely to get fouled and fail.  Of course then you have the priming problem with the pump.

                            I also have not been able to find a check valve in the right size.  My fuel system is 5/16".  They only seem to do the check valves in 1/4" and 3/8".  I'm taking everything with me tomorrow and we'll see what configuration I end up with!

                            Test run to Mimico on thursday......

                            Bruce




                            ________________________________
                            From: Bob Simms <bob.simms@...>
                            To: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 9:51:25 AM
                            Subject: Re: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue

                             
                            Bruce:

                            I had a similar problem at the beginning of this season - after trying
                            everything my only solution was to take out the tank and clean it - what
                            a mess was inside it. Rinsed it in diesel and then gas a number of times
                            which did the trick. Just got back from a 600 mile trip (SW Coast of
                            Newfoundland) without a problem - other than hurricanes Bill and Danny :-)

                            Bob Simms
                            Labrador Dream

                            Bruce Forbes wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > I started having engine issues earlier in the season and it really all
                            > points to fuel. Basically after running for about 90 minutes the
                            > engine started to drop RPM. If I throttled down and waited a few
                            > minutes I would then be able to run 2500rpm for another 10 or 20
                            > minutes. Eventually it got to the stage that it would barely even run
                            > when in gear and even at the end could barely maintain idle in
                            > neutral. I did manage to get home when the wind picked up slightly
                            > and the odd thing was as I turned to pull into my slip the engine
                            > smoothed right out and ran perfectly (even at 2500 RPM) in my slip.
                            >
                            > I can run at high revs in my slip, in reverse (med moored so forward
                            > is not really an option) for 30 minutes without a problem. If I take
                            > the boat out for a run it typically dsplays the symptom in about 10
                            > minutes.
                            >
                            > The boat came with and ran on the following fuel system configuration
                            > (BTW this is a Yanmar 4JHE):
                            >
                            > Tank then an electric fuel pump, racor water separator filter, another
                            > racor water seperator, mechanical lift pump on engine then the final
                            > filter on the engine.
                            >
                            > I ran a new fuel line from the tank to the second racor water
                            > separator thus eliminating th eelectric fuel pump and first filter.
                            > It seems better but still I notice some issues. The odd thing is that
                            > I was able to blow back through the fuel line into the tank. Should
                            > there not be a check valve stopping me frmo doing that? In this new
                            > config I now have trouble starting up the engine after it sits for a
                            > while as it it does not have fuel yet. I'm wondering if the system is
                            > siphoning back into the tank? Once I get it pumped up and running it
                            > seems fine (in the slip of course).
                            >
                            > I am able to bleed it at the screw on the final filter but can't find
                            > any other bleed point beyond that. I understand the system is
                            > "self-bleeding" but I'm not that confident that it really does.
                            >
                            > Any ideas?
                            >
                            > Bruce
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • dave
                            Where is the check valve located Bruce? I have never looked for one and would like to know where it might be found. The filter on the electric fuel pump is
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 9, 2009
                              Where is the check valve located Bruce? I have never looked for one and would like to know where it might be found.
                              The filter on the electric fuel pump is about a 60 micron filter so it would just capture the "chunks" your racor will be finer (mine is a 30 micron) and the engine filter finer yet.
                              Look me up when you get to Mimico!
                              Dave

                              --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Bruce Forbes <ibforbes@...> wrote:


                              From: Bruce Forbes <ibforbes@...>
                              Subject: Re: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue
                              To: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
                              Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 5:50 PM


                               



                              Thanks.  I found the problem(s) and it is exactly what you would expect.  Crap in the tank clogged the check valve (which broke when I took it out).  From there it traveled to the electric fuel pump where, at it turns out, there is a filter built in (so the electric fuel pump is my primary filter!).  I re-configured so my electric pump is after my real primary filter but without the check valve it is unable to prime itself so for now I have gone one filter downstream and am running with just the mechanical lift pump.

                              Next years project is to cut an access hole in the top of the tank so I can clean the tank more effectively.  I might even put in a fuel guage while I'm at it (although I really do prefer the dipstick for accuracy).

                              Anyway... mystery solved.  Now I just have to figure out how best to configure my fuel system.  I spoke to a mechanic and his opinion was the check valve is a bad idea and especially bad in a Bayfield 36.  He said the best thing for a 36 was a stop cock which was less likely to get fouled and fail.  Of course then you have the priming problem with the pump.

                              I also have not been able to find a check valve in the right size.  My fuel system is 5/16".  They only seem to do the check valves in 1/4" and 3/8".  I'm taking everything with me tomorrow and we'll see what configuration I end up with!

                              Test run to Mimico on thursday.... ..

                              Bruce

                              ____________ _________ _________ __
                              From: Bob Simms <bob.simms@nf. sympatico. ca>
                              To: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 9:51:25 AM
                              Subject: Re: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue

                               
                              Bruce:

                              I had a similar problem at the beginning of this season - after trying
                              everything my only solution was to take out the tank and clean it - what
                              a mess was inside it. Rinsed it in diesel and then gas a number of times
                              which did the trick. Just got back from a 600 mile trip (SW Coast of
                              Newfoundland) without a problem - other than hurricanes Bill and Danny :-)

                              Bob Simms
                              Labrador Dream

                              Bruce Forbes wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > I started having engine issues earlier in the season and it really all
                              > points to fuel. Basically after running for about 90 minutes the
                              > engine started to drop RPM. If I throttled down and waited a few
                              > minutes I would then be able to run 2500rpm for another 10 or 20
                              > minutes. Eventually it got to the stage that it would barely even run
                              > when in gear and even at the end could barely maintain idle in
                              > neutral. I did manage to get home when the wind picked up slightly
                              > and the odd thing was as I turned to pull into my slip the engine
                              > smoothed right out and ran perfectly (even at 2500 RPM) in my slip.
                              >
                              > I can run at high revs in my slip, in reverse (med moored so forward
                              > is not really an option) for 30 minutes without a problem. If I take
                              > the boat out for a run it typically dsplays the symptom in about 10
                              > minutes.
                              >
                              > The boat came with and ran on the following fuel system configuration
                              > (BTW this is a Yanmar 4JHE):
                              >
                              > Tank then an electric fuel pump, racor water separator filter, another
                              > racor water seperator, mechanical lift pump on engine then the final
                              > filter on the engine.
                              >
                              > I ran a new fuel line from the tank to the second racor water
                              > separator thus eliminating th eelectric fuel pump and first filter.
                              > It seems better but still I notice some issues. The odd thing is that
                              > I was able to blow back through the fuel line into the tank. Should
                              > there not be a check valve stopping me frmo doing that? In this new
                              > config I now have trouble starting up the engine after it sits for a
                              > while as it it does not have fuel yet. I'm wondering if the system is
                              > siphoning back into the tank? Once I get it pumped up and running it
                              > seems fine (in the slip of course).
                              >
                              > I am able to bleed it at the screw on the final filter but can't find
                              > any other bleed point beyond that. I understand the system is
                              > "self-bleeding" but I'm not that confident that it really does.
                              >
                              > Any ideas?
                              >
                              > Bruce
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • sailornappo
                              ... not sure I have a check-valve in mine, would have to look. But I use a 2 micron in my Racor, and in 10 yrs I never had a problem (TOUCH WOOD NOW). This
                              Message 14 of 23 , Sep 9, 2009
                                ... not sure I have a check-valve in mine, would have to look. But I use a 2 micron in my Racor, and in 10 yrs I never had a problem (TOUCH WOOD NOW).
                                This spring I did remove my fueltank just to check and also installed an inspection port at the same time, but left the most reliable "Fuel Gauge" ... a wooden dowel that goes through a 1/2" hole on top of the tank.


                                --- In bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com, dave <wind_rose_2@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Where is the check valve located Bruce? I have never looked for one and would like to know where it might be found.
                                > The filter on the electric fuel pump is about a 60 micron filter so it would just capture the "chunks" your racor will be finer (mine is a 30 micron) and the engine filter finer yet.
                                > Look me up when you get to Mimico!
                                > Dave
                                >
                                > --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Bruce Forbes <ibforbes@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Bruce Forbes <ibforbes@...>
                                > Subject: Re: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue
                                > To: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                > Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 5:50 PM
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Thanks.  I found the problem(s) and it is exactly what you would expect.  Crap in the tank clogged the check valve (which broke when I took it out).  From there it traveled to the electric fuel pump where, at it turns out, there is a filter built in (so the electric fuel pump is my primary filter!).  I re-configured so my electric pump is after my real primary filter but without the check valve it is unable to prime itself so for now I have gone one filter downstream and am running with just the mechanical lift pump.
                                >
                                > Next years project is to cut an access hole in the top of the tank so I can clean the tank more effectively.  I might even put in a fuel guage while I'm at it (although I really do prefer the dipstick for accuracy).
                                >
                                > Anyway... mystery solved.  Now I just have to figure out how best to configure my fuel system.  I spoke to a mechanic and his opinion was the check valve is a bad idea and especially bad in a Bayfield 36.  He said the best thing for a 36 was a stop cock which was less likely to get fouled and fail.  Of course then you have the priming problem with the pump.
                                >
                                > I also have not been able to find a check valve in the right size.  My fuel system is 5/16".  They only seem to do the check valves in 1/4" and 3/8".  I'm taking everything with me tomorrow and we'll see what configuration I end up with!
                                >
                                > Test run to Mimico on thursday.... ..
                                >
                                > Bruce
                                >
                                > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                > From: Bob Simms <bob.simms@nf. sympatico. ca>
                                > To: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com
                                > Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 9:51:25 AM
                                > Subject: Re: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue
                                >
                                >  
                                > Bruce:
                                >
                                > I had a similar problem at the beginning of this season - after trying
                                > everything my only solution was to take out the tank and clean it - what
                                > a mess was inside it. Rinsed it in diesel and then gas a number of times
                                > which did the trick. Just got back from a 600 mile trip (SW Coast of
                                > Newfoundland) without a problem - other than hurricanes Bill and Danny :-)
                                >
                                > Bob Simms
                                > Labrador Dream
                                >
                                > Bruce Forbes wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > I started having engine issues earlier in the season and it really all
                                > > points to fuel. Basically after running for about 90 minutes the
                                > > engine started to drop RPM. If I throttled down and waited a few
                                > > minutes I would then be able to run 2500rpm for another 10 or 20
                                > > minutes. Eventually it got to the stage that it would barely even run
                                > > when in gear and even at the end could barely maintain idle in
                                > > neutral. I did manage to get home when the wind picked up slightly
                                > > and the odd thing was as I turned to pull into my slip the engine
                                > > smoothed right out and ran perfectly (even at 2500 RPM) in my slip.
                                > >
                                > > I can run at high revs in my slip, in reverse (med moored so forward
                                > > is not really an option) for 30 minutes without a problem. If I take
                                > > the boat out for a run it typically dsplays the symptom in about 10
                                > > minutes.
                                > >
                                > > The boat came with and ran on the following fuel system configuration
                                > > (BTW this is a Yanmar 4JHE):
                                > >
                                > > Tank then an electric fuel pump, racor water separator filter, another
                                > > racor water seperator, mechanical lift pump on engine then the final
                                > > filter on the engine.
                                > >
                                > > I ran a new fuel line from the tank to the second racor water
                                > > separator thus eliminating th eelectric fuel pump and first filter.
                                > > It seems better but still I notice some issues. The odd thing is that
                                > > I was able to blow back through the fuel line into the tank. Should
                                > > there not be a check valve stopping me frmo doing that? In this new
                                > > config I now have trouble starting up the engine after it sits for a
                                > > while as it it does not have fuel yet. I'm wondering if the system is
                                > > siphoning back into the tank? Once I get it pumped up and running it
                                > > seems fine (in the slip of course).
                                > >
                                > > I am able to bleed it at the screw on the final filter but can't find
                                > > any other bleed point beyond that. I understand the system is
                                > > "self-bleeding" but I'm not that confident that it really does.
                                > >
                                > > Any ideas?
                                > >
                                > > Bruce
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > __________________________________________________________________
                                > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
                                >
                                > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Bruce Forbes
                                The check valve is the hose adapter right at the elbow at the top of your tank.  It s a 5/16 which they no longer seem to make but I replaced it with the
                                Message 15 of 23 , Sep 12, 2009
                                  The check valve is the "hose adapter" right at the elbow at the top of your tank.  It's a 5/16" which they no longer seem to make but I replaced it with the 3/8" and my new fule line managed to squeeze onto it.  The old one broke when I was talking it out and it was fuel of brown goo.  I assume that my tank desparately needs cleaning.  It sat for years in Florida and had a large amount of water in it.  I did pump it out but will now be adding an inspection port this winter so I can get in and give it a good cleaning.




                                  ________________________________
                                  From: sailornappo <sailornappo@...>
                                  To: bayfieldyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 10:25:41 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue

                                   
                                  ... not sure I have a check-valve in mine, would have to look. But I use a 2 micron in my Racor, and in 10 yrs I never had a problem (TOUCH WOOD NOW).
                                  This spring I did remove my fueltank just to check and also installed an inspection port at the same time, but left the most reliable "Fuel Gauge" ... a wooden dowel that goes through a 1/2" hole on top of the tank.

                                  --- In bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com, dave <wind_rose_2@ ...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Where is the check valve located Bruce? I have never looked for one and would like to know where it might be found.
                                  > The filter on the electric fuel pump is about a 60 micron filter so it would just capture the "chunks" your racor will be finer (mine is a 30 micron) and the engine filter finer yet.
                                  > Look me up when you get to Mimico!
                                  > Dave
                                  >
                                  > --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Bruce Forbes <ibforbes@.. .> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: Bruce Forbes <ibforbes@.. .>
                                  > Subject: Re: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue
                                  > To: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 5:50 PM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Thanks.  I found the problem(s) and it is exactly what you would expect.  Crap in the tank clogged the check valve (which broke when I took it out).  From there it traveled to the electric fuel pump where, at it turns out, there is a filter built in (so the electric fuel pump is my primary filter!).  I re-configured so my electric pump is after my real primary filter but without the check valve it is unable to prime itself so for now I have gone one filter downstream and am running with just the mechanical lift pump.
                                  >
                                  > Next years project is to cut an access hole in the top of the tank so I can clean the tank more effectively.  I might even put in a fuel guage while I'm at it (although I really do prefer the dipstick for accuracy).
                                  >
                                  > Anyway... mystery solved.  Now I just have to figure out how best to configure my fuel system.  I spoke to a mechanic and his opinion was the check valve is a bad idea and especially bad in a Bayfield 36.  He said the best thing for a 36 was a stop cock which was less likely to get fouled and fail.  Of course then you have the priming problem with the pump.
                                  >
                                  > I also have not been able to find a check valve in the right size.  My fuel system is 5/16".  They only seem to do the check valves in 1/4" and 3/8".  I'm taking everything with me tomorrow and we'll see what configuration I end up with!
                                  >
                                  > Test run to Mimico on thursday.... ..
                                  >
                                  > Bruce
                                  >
                                  > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                  > From: Bob Simms <bob.simms@nf. sympatico. ca>
                                  > To: bayfieldyachts@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 9:51:25 AM
                                  > Subject: Re: [BYOR] Engine troubles continue
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > Bruce:
                                  >
                                  > I had a similar problem at the beginning of this season - after trying
                                  > everything my only solution was to take out the tank and clean it - what
                                  > a mess was inside it. Rinsed it in diesel and then gas a number of times
                                  > which did the trick. Just got back from a 600 mile trip (SW Coast of
                                  > Newfoundland) without a problem - other than hurricanes Bill and Danny :-)
                                  >
                                  > Bob Simms
                                  > Labrador Dream
                                  >
                                  > Bruce Forbes wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I started having engine issues earlier in the season and it really all
                                  > > points to fuel. Basically after running for about 90 minutes the
                                  > > engine started to drop RPM. If I throttled down and waited a few
                                  > > minutes I would then be able to run 2500rpm for another 10 or 20
                                  > > minutes. Eventually it got to the stage that it would barely even run
                                  > > when in gear and even at the end could barely maintain idle in
                                  > > neutral. I did manage to get home when the wind picked up slightly
                                  > > and the odd thing was as I turned to pull into my slip the engine
                                  > > smoothed right out and ran perfectly (even at 2500 RPM) in my slip.
                                  > >
                                  > > I can run at high revs in my slip, in reverse (med moored so forward
                                  > > is not really an option) for 30 minutes without a problem. If I take
                                  > > the boat out for a run it typically dsplays the symptom in about 10
                                  > > minutes.
                                  > >
                                  > > The boat came with and ran on the following fuel system configuration
                                  > > (BTW this is a Yanmar 4JHE):
                                  > >
                                  > > Tank then an electric fuel pump, racor water separator filter, another
                                  > > racor water seperator, mechanical lift pump on engine then the final
                                  > > filter on the engine.
                                  > >
                                  > > I ran a new fuel line from the tank to the second racor water
                                  > > separator thus eliminating th eelectric fuel pump and first filter.
                                  > > It seems better but still I notice some issues. The odd thing is that
                                  > > I was able to blow back through the fuel line into the tank. Should
                                  > > there not be a check valve stopping me frmo doing that? In this new
                                  > > config I now have trouble starting up the engine after it sits for a
                                  > > while as it it does not have fuel yet. I'm wondering if the system is
                                  > > siphoning back into the tank? Once I get it pumped up and running it
                                  > > seems fine (in the slip of course).
                                  > >
                                  > > I am able to bleed it at the screw on the final filter but can't find
                                  > > any other bleed point beyond that. I understand the system is
                                  > > "self-bleeding" but I'm not that confident that it really does.
                                  > >
                                  > > Any ideas?
                                  > >
                                  > > Bruce
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
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