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a simple solution

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  • Peter Kreutzer
    I think Ted hit the nail on the head, and actually backs up F.X. s description of what SABR would do of last week. These are SABR decisions that are
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 12, 2011
      I think Ted hit the nail on the head, and actually backs up F.X.'s description of what SABR would do of last week. These are SABR decisions that are independent of BDB, as they should be.

      Creating an open source version of the various SABR datasets is what all of us non-commercial (I license the magazine stats from BIS) users want, and SABR is in the best position to offer (at some future date) the minor league, non retro, biographical and Palmer data under those terms, while also providing commercial licenses (which helps support the effort).

      In the meantime, BDB's volunteers can (if they see the value) continue to maintain the BDB dataset and offer it in the various formats offered, with whatever extensions, corrections and refinements can be included as time and energy and focus permits.

      If SABR's efforts make BDB's redundant and unnecessary, BDB will know it's time to quit.

      If everyone agrees, that only leaves open Tom's question about what it would take to acquire as a group a non-commercial license of the thus-far restricted SABR datasets (minors, bio, and whatever others). If we could collectively raise X amount of dollars, would SABR license this data to outside researchers for non-commercial use? (Which raises the question, if you're a SABR member do you have access to all that data for research purposes? I realize I don't know the answer to that question.)

      Peter

      Ted wrote: "So my proposed worldline going forward is this: SABR works out the details and starts publishing data under a dual-license scheme. The community can then evaluate it and decide whether that meets everyone's needs. If it does, great. If it doesn't - and it's hard to imagine that it's possible to meet the needs of every last person - then baseball-databank can continue, in whatever form or way people want to continue it. If SABR's datasets become the de-facto successor to baseball-databank, great; if not, that's great too."
    • KJOK
      All; There s been a lot of hand-wringing about SABR and what SABR could or should do, but nothing s really changed within the last 2 weeks regarding what SABR
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 12, 2011
        All;
         
        There's been a lot of hand-wringing about SABR and what SABR could or should do, but nothing's really changed within the last 2 weeks regarding what SABR could be doing.   Having a copy of Pete Palmer's database or the minor league database deposited in our FILES section tomorrow, or getting formatted Bio Committee updates would be great, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
         
        What has changed is that Sean F. is no longer going to do the yearly updates and be responsible for hosting the master files, so I would think replacing Sean in that task is the first thing we need to focus on.
         
        If we want to take this opportunity to formalize some tasks to ensure this effort continues seems like we need the following:
         
        1.  Someone to be responsible for/host the 'master' copy of the database.
        2.  Someone to be responsible for the yearly update.
         
        Beyond that, some 'nice to have' things would be:
         
        3.  One or more people to be responsible for the 'old' data updates.  An example would be the items that Clem Comly recently posted (NOTE: I will volunteer for this one).
         
        4.  One or more people to take the Bio Committee newsletter updates and enter them into the database.
         
        5. One or more people to integrate Retrosheet split data tables into the database.
         
        6.  One or many people to be responsible for integrating "ancillary" datasets such as coaches, execs, International, Awards, Negro Leagues, etc., etc.
         
        7.  Probably some others I'm forgetting.
         
        I think this would be a good start, instead of debating about Intellectual Property, etc....
         
        THANKS,
        Kevin Johnson
      • Mike
        I m going to step up with a few of these. ... I have a ROUGH local copy of executives, umpires and coaches. I m going through and comparing what I have to
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 16, 2011
          I'm going to step up with a few of these.

          > 6.  One or many people to be responsible for integrating "ancillary" datasets
          > such as coaches, execs, International, Awards, Negro Leagues, etc., etc.

          I have a ROUGH local copy of executives, umpires and coaches. I'm going through and comparing what I have to Retrosheet (Original Source was TB7), and then updating with new data (For coaches if they were 3rd, 1st, pitching, etc and the # of games an umpire was at each position). I also have added most of the Bio data for non-players to my local Master table and will have that available as well.

          I have some additional awards (Team Hall of Fame, Canadian Hall of Fame, etc), and those are still being refined as well.

          MikeC

          --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, KJOK <kjokbaseball@...> wrote:
          >
          > All;
          >
          > There's been a lot of hand-wringing about SABR and what SABR could or should do,
          > but nothing's really changed within the last 2 weeks regarding what SABR could
          > be doing.   Having a copy of Pete Palmer's database or the minor league database
          > deposited in our FILES section tomorrow, or getting formatted Bio Committee
          > updates would be great, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
          >
          > What has changed is that Sean F. is no longer going to do the yearly updates and
          > be responsible for hosting the master files, so I would think replacing Sean in
          > that task is the first thing we need to focus on.
          >
          > If we want to take this opportunity to formalize some tasks to ensure this
          > effort continues seems like we need the following:
          >
          <SNIP>
          >
          > 6.  One or many people to be responsible for integrating "ancillary" datasets
          > such as coaches, execs, International, Awards, Negro Leagues, etc., etc.
          >
          <SNIP>

          > THANKS,
          > Kevin Johnson
          >
        • Tangotiger
          With Ted s ID project, this would be the perfect time for anyone who has data compiled to attached Ted s ID or Retro ID to any person in your file.  The key
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 16, 2011
            With Ted's ID project, this would be the perfect time for anyone who has data compiled to attached Ted's ID or Retro ID to any person in your file.  The key to the integration is the matching of IDs.

            I don't remember if Ted also created IDs for teams, organizations, cities, colleges, countries, and the like.  But, that would be another thing that could be done.

            Tom

            ---------------------------------------------
            Tim Raines, Hall of Fame 2008
            http://www.raines30.com/










            ---------------------------------------------

            --- On Sat, 4/16/11, Mike <ucraimx@...> wrote:

            From: Mike <ucraimx@...>
            Subject: [baseball-databank] Re: The Future
            To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, April 16, 2011, 11:13 AM

             

            I'm going to step up with a few of these.

            > 6.  One or many people to be responsible for integrating "ancillary" datasets
            > such as coaches, execs, International, Awards, Negro Leagues, etc., etc.

            I have a ROUGH local copy of executives, umpires and coaches. I'm going through and comparing what I have to Retrosheet (Original Source was TB7), and then updating with new data (For coaches if they were 3rd, 1st, pitching, etc and the # of games an umpire was at each position). I also have added most of the Bio data for non-players to my local Master table and will have that available as well.

            I have some additional awards (Team Hall of Fame, Canadian Hall of Fame, etc), and those are still being refined as well.

            MikeC

            --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, KJOK <kjokbaseball@...> wrote:
            >
            > All;
            >
            > There's been a lot of hand-wringing about SABR and what SABR could or should do,
            > but nothing's really changed within the last 2 weeks regarding what SABR could
            > be doing.   Having a copy of Pete Palmer's database or the minor league database
            > deposited in our FILES section tomorrow, or getting formatted Bio Committee
            > updates would be great, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
            >
            > What has changed is that Sean F. is no longer going to do the yearly updates and
            > be responsible for hosting the master files, so I would think replacing Sean in
            > that task is the first thing we need to focus on.
            >
            > If we want to take this opportunity to formalize some tasks to ensure this
            > effort continues seems like we need the following:
            >
            <SNIP>
            >
            > 6.  One or many people to be responsible for integrating "ancillary" datasets
            > such as coaches, execs, International, Awards, Negro Leagues, etc., etc.
            >
            <SNIP>

            > THANKS,
            > Kevin Johnson
            >

          • Ted Turocy
            The ID scheme is intended to be extended to other entities like teams and leagues and the like. So far, the use cases for entities other than people are less
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 16, 2011

              The ID scheme is intended to be extended to other entities like teams and leagues and the like. So far, the use cases for entities other than people are less clear, so they have not been pursued as vigorously.  But, yes, if anyone is thinking about publishing a dataset, please let's do put in some time thinking carefully about identifiers, data semantics, and the like, to make it as integrable as possible.

              Ted

              On Apr 16, 2011, at 16:57, Tangotiger <tangotiger@...> wrote:

               

              With Ted's ID project, this would be the perfect time for anyone who has data compiled to attached Ted's ID or Retro ID to any person in your file.  The key to the integration is the matching of IDs.

              I don't remember if Ted also created IDs for teams, organizations, cities, colleges, countries, and the like.  But, that would be another thing that could be done.

              Tom

              ---------------------------------------------
              Tim Raines, Hall of Fame 2008
              http://www.raines30.com/










              ---------------------------------------------

              --- On Sat, 4/16/11, Mike <ucraimx@...> wrote:

              From: Mike <ucraimx@...>
              Subject: [baseball-databank] Re: The Future
              To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, April 16, 2011, 11:13 AM

               

              I'm going to step up with a few of these.

              > 6.  One or many people to be responsible for integrating "ancillary" datasets
              > such as coaches, execs, International, Awards, Negro Leagues, etc., etc.

              I have a ROUGH local copy of executives, umpires and coaches. I'm going through and comparing what I have to Retrosheet (Original Source was TB7), and then updating with new data (For coaches if they were 3rd, 1st, pitching, etc and the # of games an umpire was at each position). I also have added most of the Bio data for non-players to my local Master table and will have that available as well.

              I have some additional awards (Team Hall of Fame, Canadian Hall of Fame, etc), and those are still being refined as well.

              MikeC

              --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, KJOK <kjokbaseball@...> wrote:
              >
              > All;
              >
              > There's been a lot of hand-wringing about SABR and what SABR could or should do,
              > but nothing's really changed within the last 2 weeks regarding what SABR could
              > be doing.   Having a copy of Pete Palmer's database or the minor league database
              > deposited in our FILES section tomorrow, or getting formatted Bio Committee
              > updates would be great, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
              >
              > What has changed is that Sean F. is no longer going to do the yearly updates and
              > be responsible for hosting the master files, so I would think replacing Sean in
              > that task is the first thing we need to focus on.
              >
              > If we want to take this opportunity to formalize some tasks to ensure this
              > effort continues seems like we need the following:
              >
              <SNIP>
              >
              > 6.  One or many people to be responsible for integrating "ancillary" datasets
              > such as coaches, execs, International, Awards, Negro Leagues, etc., etc.
              >
              <SNIP>

              > THANKS,
              > Kevin Johnson
              >

            • Tangotiger
              As an economist, what kind of incentive system considerations would you have to make this work:
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 19, 2011
                As an economist, what kind of incentive system considerations would you
                have to make this work:

                http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/virtual_work_stoppage/

                (Also read the comments in that thread.)

                Tom
              • Tangotiger
                Sorry guys, that was meant for someone else. Tom
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 19, 2011
                  Sorry guys, that was meant for someone else.

                  Tom
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