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1991 World Series - Terry Pendleton caught stealing

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  • dsreyn
    I noticed a discrepancy in caught stealing totals for the Atlanta Braves in the 1991 World Series. BDB credits the Braves with two CS in the series - one by
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 3, 2006
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      I noticed a discrepancy in caught stealing totals for the Atlanta
      Braves in the 1991 World Series. BDB credits the Braves with two CS
      in the series - one by Keith Mitchell, and one by Terry Pendleton.
      The Stats, Inc. All-Time Baseball Sourcebook shows only the one by
      Mitchell. The 1992 TSN Baseball Guide does not show CS in the
      composite stats, but a search through the box scores shows that TSN
      agrees with Stats - there is no CS listed for Pendleton in any of the
      seven games.

      The critical play appears to have occurred in the 5th inning of game
      4. Here's the play by play account from Retrosheet, showing the CS
      for Pendleton:

      BRAVES 5TH: Smith singled to left; Smith stole second; Pendleton
      doubled to center [Smith out at home (center to second to
      catcher), Pendleton to third (on throw to home)]; Gant walked;
      Pendleton was caught stealing home (catcher unassisted) [Gant to
      second]; Justice popped to left; 0 R, 2 H, 0 E, 1 LOB. Twins 1,
      Braves 1.

      However, the TSN Guide describes the play on which Pendleton was
      tagged out as follows:

      "Morris bounced a pitch, which briefly got away from the catcher.
      Pendleton broke for home, but was tagged out by the catcher, as Gant
      went to second."

      If the TSN description is correct, I don't believe Pendleton should be
      charged with a caught stealing, because this is not an attempted
      steal. Among other things, if he had successfully reached home, he
      would not have been credited with a stolen base - the scoring would
      have been either a wild pitch by Morris, or a passed ball by the catcher.

      Doug
    • dsreyn
      A little more on this. Scoring rule 10.08(h) includes the following: NOTE: In those instances where a pitched ball eludes the catcher and the runner is put
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 4, 2006
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        A little more on this. Scoring rule 10.08(h) includes the following:

        NOTE: In those instances where a pitched ball eludes the catcher and
        the runner is put out trying to advance, no caught stealing shall be
        charged. No caught stealing should be charged when a runner is awarded
        a base due to obstruction.

        Doug

        --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "dsreyn" <dreynolds@...> wrote:
        >
        > I noticed a discrepancy in caught stealing totals for the Atlanta
        > Braves in the 1991 World Series. BDB credits the Braves with two CS
        > in the series - one by Keith Mitchell, and one by Terry Pendleton.
        > The Stats, Inc. All-Time Baseball Sourcebook shows only the one by
        > Mitchell. The 1992 TSN Baseball Guide does not show CS in the
        > composite stats, but a search through the box scores shows that TSN
        > agrees with Stats - there is no CS listed for Pendleton in any of the
        > seven games.
        >
        > The critical play appears to have occurred in the 5th inning of game
        > 4. Here's the play by play account from Retrosheet, showing the CS
        > for Pendleton:
        >
        > BRAVES 5TH: Smith singled to left; Smith stole second; Pendleton
        > doubled to center [Smith out at home (center to second to
        > catcher), Pendleton to third (on throw to home)]; Gant walked;
        > Pendleton was caught stealing home (catcher unassisted) [Gant to
        > second]; Justice popped to left; 0 R, 2 H, 0 E, 1 LOB. Twins 1,
        > Braves 1.
        >
        > However, the TSN Guide describes the play on which Pendleton was
        > tagged out as follows:
        >
        > "Morris bounced a pitch, which briefly got away from the catcher.
        > Pendleton broke for home, but was tagged out by the catcher, as Gant
        > went to second."
        >
        > If the TSN description is correct, I don't believe Pendleton should be
        > charged with a caught stealing, because this is not an attempted
        > steal. Among other things, if he had successfully reached home, he
        > would not have been credited with a stolen base - the scoring would
        > have been either a wild pitch by Morris, or a passed ball by the
        catcher.
        >
        > Doug
        >
      • Mike Emeigh
        ... awarded ... Using ProQuest, I found the NY Times description of the game, and the way that Doug quotes the TSN Guide is what appears in the NYT article as
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 4, 2006
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          Doug Reynolds wrote:
          >
          > A little more on this. Scoring rule 10.08(h) includes the following:
          >
          > NOTE: In those instances where a pitched ball eludes the catcher and
          > the runner is put out trying to advance, no caught stealing shall be
          > charged. No caught stealing should be charged when a runner is
          awarded
          > a base due to obstruction.

          Using ProQuest, I found the NY Times description of the game, and the
          way that Doug quotes the TSN Guide is what appears in the NYT article
          as well:

          "Morris bounced a pitch in the dirt in front of Harper. As the ball
          caromed away from Harper to the first base side, Pendleton darted
          home. But Harper caught the ball in midair about 15 feet away, then
          dived and crawled toward the plate, lunging the last few feet and
          tagging Pendleton as he slid home."

          Clearly not a CS, but an OA.

          Shameless plug time:

          ProQuest is a SABR member benefit, allowing online archive searches of
          the NY Times, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, and other papers. If
          you are a SABR member with a question like this, you really should be
          using ProQuest to find the answer. If you are not a SABR member, you
          really should visit http://www.sabr.org and learn how to become one;
          the access to ProQuest alone, IMO, is worth it.

          Mike Emeigh
          piratefan1@...
        • KJOK
          I would suggest posting on the Retrosheet egroup as it appears they ll need to correct also. THANKS, Kevin dsreyn wrote: A little more
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 4, 2006
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            I would suggest posting on the Retrosheet egroup as it appears they'll need to correct also.
             
            THANKS,
            Kevin

            dsreyn <dreynolds@...> wrote:
            A little more on this.  Scoring rule 10.08(h) includes the following:

            NOTE: In those instances where a pitched ball eludes the catcher and
            the runner is put out trying to advance, no caught stealing shall be
            charged. No caught stealing should be charged when a runner is awarded
            a base due to obstruction.

            Doug

            --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "dsreyn" <dreynolds@...> wrote:
            >
            > I noticed a discrepancy in caught stealing totals for the Atlanta
            > Braves in the 1991 World Series.  BDB credits the Braves with two CS
            > in the series - one by Keith Mitchell, and one by Terry Pendleton.
            > The Stats, Inc. All-Time Baseball Sourcebook shows only the one by
            > Mitchell.  The 1992 TSN Baseball Guide does not show CS in the
            > composite stats, but a search through the box scores shows that TSN
            > agrees with Stats - there is no CS listed for Pendleton in any of the
            > seven games.
            >
            > The critical play appears to have occurred in the 5th inning of game
            > 4.  Here's the play by play account from Retrosheet, showing the CS
            > for Pendleton:
            >
            > BRAVES 5TH: Smith singled to left; Smith stole second; Pendleton
            > doubled to center [Smith out at home (center to second to
            > catcher), Pendleton to third (on throw to home)]; Gant walked;
            > Pendleton was caught stealing home (catcher unassisted) [Gant to
            > second]; Justice popped to left; 0 R, 2 H, 0 E, 1 LOB.  Twins 1,
            > Braves 1.
            >
            > However, the TSN Guide describes the play on which Pendleton was
            > tagged out as follows:
            >
            > "Morris bounced a pitch, which briefly got away from the catcher.
            > Pendleton broke for home, but was tagged out by the catcher, as Gant
            > went to second."
            >
            > If the TSN description is correct, I don't believe Pendleton should be
            > charged with a caught stealing, because this is not an attempted
            > steal.  Among other things, if he had successfully reached home, he
            > would not have been credited with a stolen base - the scoring would
            > have been either a wild pitch by Morris, or a passed ball by the
            catcher.
            >
            > Doug
            >







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          • Mike Emeigh
            ... Already done. Mike Emeigh piratefan1@nc.rr.com
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 4, 2006
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              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of KJOK
              > Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 10:01 PM
              > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [baseball-databank] Re: 1991 World Series -
              > Terry Pendleton caught stealing
              >
              > I would suggest posting on the Retrosheet egroup as it
              > appears they'll need to correct also.

              Already done.

              Mike Emeigh
              piratefan1@...
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