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RE: BDB Wish List

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  • Holmes, Dan
    To answer the question posed by Sean: the #1 thing I d like to see in the DB is the addition of minor league statistics. At the very least, we would have the
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 26, 2006
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      To answer the question posed by Sean: the #1 thing I'd like to see in
      the DB is the addition of minor league statistics. At the very least, we
      would have the year and teams for every player who ever made it to the
      Show. That's not a structural enhancement to the DB, but that's my two
      cents. I would love to talk with folks who might agree with me and might
      be interested in trying to get that accomplished.

      One other point, and perhaps I'm not fully understanding the issue
      (that's very possible): specifically, but what's the biggest concern
      that people have about having numeric keys? The Master table would still
      have the correlations between the player and the new key. A query could
      be done rather easily to create views to see the data in the exact way
      it's provided now.

      Dan Holmes
    • Anthony Giacalone
      I know that several people are working on minor league stats. Does anyone know the status of these ventures? Recently, I ve completed minor league hitting,
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 26, 2006
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        I know that several people are working on minor league stats. Does
        anyone know the status of these ventures? Recently, I've completed
        minor league hitting, pitching and fielding stats for AAA and AA for the
        1961 season (as found in the Sporting News Official Guide).

        > To answer the question posed by Sean: the #1 thing I'd like to see in
        > the DB is the addition of minor league statistics. At the very least, we
        > would have the year and teams for every player who ever made it to the
        > Show. That's not a structural enhancement to the DB, but that's my two
        > cents. I would love to talk with folks who might agree with me and might
        > be interested in trying to get that accomplished.
      • Keith Hemmelman
        Dan, my answer to your question about changing to the numeric key format is simple. My initial reaction was, Darn it, I just spent 3 weeks of using every
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 26, 2006
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          Dan, my answer to your question about changing to the numeric key format is
          simple. My initial reaction was, "Darn it, I just spent 3 weeks of using
          every last minute of my free time to work on a database and just get close
          to being done and I find out I have to do it all over again."

          Now that this initial shock is over and I've looked at things the way I
          should have in the first place, I have no objections to switching formats.
          In fact, I took a little time to look back at my unfinished August database
          with that format, and if the new format resembles this, I would say it was
          actually easier to work with inside MS Access with that "numeric key" to
          link everything together and my initial reaction was just a bit of
          frustration. A few of the queries seemed to run faster to in the August
          format too, so I'm all for changing. There was a "IDXref" table included
          you could use to cross reference to other id's such as the Lahman id's etc.
          that made those easy enough to use if needed. I don't know if the new
          format would include a similiar cross reference type table, but if not, I
          don't believe I would have any problems with what I'm doing.

          As has been stated before, the format used should be the format most
          efficient for those who maintain this database. My only concern is once a
          structure is decided upon, that core structure remain in place.

          Keith Hemmelman

          -----Original Message-----
          From: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Holmes, Dan
          Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:47 PM
          To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [baseball-databank] RE: BDB Wish List


          To answer the question posed by Sean: the #1 thing I'd like to see in
          the DB is the addition of minor league statistics. At the very least, we
          would have the year and teams for every player who ever made it to the
          Show. That's not a structural enhancement to the DB, but that's my two
          cents. I would love to talk with folks who might agree with me and might
          be interested in trying to get that accomplished.

          One other point, and perhaps I'm not fully understanding the issue
          (that's very possible): specifically, but what's the biggest concern
          that people have about having numeric keys? The Master table would still
          have the correlations between the player and the new key. A query could
          be done rather easily to create views to see the data in the exact way
          it's provided now.

          Dan Holmes


          http://www.baseball-databank.org/ <http://www.baseball-databank.org/>



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        • KJOK
          Dan wrote: To answer the question posed by Sean: the #1 thing I d like to see in the DB is the addition of minor league statistics. At the very least, we
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 26, 2006
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            Dan wrote: "To answer the question posed by Sean: the #1 thing I'd
            like to see in
            the DB is the addition of minor league statistics. At the very
            least, we
            would have the year and teams for every player who ever made it to
            the
            Show. That's not a structural enhancement to the DB, but that's my
            two
            cents. I would love to talk with folks who might agree with me and
            might
            be interested in trying to get that accomplished."

            That's near the top of my list also. I think we should AT LEAST
            have Japanese League stats for MLB players that played in Japan,
            since Michael Westbay already has that data in database form, and
            really no reason why all the recent Japanese League seasons, with
            historical seasons to follow, couldn't be incorporated.

            To get the US minor league data, I think we first need to add the
            necessary LEAGUES and TEAMS to the database, which is a project I've
            been working on myself....

            THANKS,
            Kevin

            --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "Holmes, Dan"
            <dholmes@b...> wrote:
            >
            > To answer the question posed by Sean: the #1 thing I'd like to see
            in
            > the DB is the addition of minor league statistics. At the very
            least, we
            > would have the year and teams for every player who ever made it to
            the
            > Show. That's not a structural enhancement to the DB, but that's my
            two
            > cents. I would love to talk with folks who might agree with me and
            might
            > be interested in trying to get that accomplished.
            >
            > One other point, and perhaps I'm not fully understanding the issue
            > (that's very possible): specifically, but what's the biggest
            concern
            > that people have about having numeric keys? The Master table would
            still
            > have the correlations between the player and the new key. A query
            could
            > be done rather easily to create views to see the data in the exact
            way
            > it's provided now.
            >
            > Dan Holmes
            >
          • Sean Forman
            SABR s minor league commitee is working on translating all of the guides back to the 1800 s into computer formats. I don t know if we ll be able to get our
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 27, 2006
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              SABR's minor league commitee is working on translating all of the guides back to the 1800's into computer formats.  I don't know if we'll be able to get our hands on that or not.  SABR has been a tad provincial is some of their efforts.

              sean

              On 1/26/06, Anthony Giacalone <agiacalone@...> wrote:
              I know that several people are working on minor league stats.  Does
              anyone know the status of these ventures?  Recently, I've completed
              minor league hitting, pitching and fielding stats for AAA and AA for the
              1961 season (as found in the Sporting News Official Guide).

              > To answer the question posed by Sean: the #1 thing I'd like to see in
              > the DB is the addition of minor league statistics. At the very least, we
              > would have the year and teams for every player who ever made it to the
              > Show. That's not a structural enhancement to the DB, but that's my two
              > cents. I would love to talk with folks who might agree with me and might
              > be interested in trying to get that accomplished.




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            • Paul Wendt
              ... anyone know the status of these ventures? Recently, I ve completed minor league hitting, pitching and fielding stats for AAA and AA for the 1961 season
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 27, 2006
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                --- Anthony Giacalone <agiacalone@...> wrote:

                >> I know that several people are working on minor league stats. Does
                anyone know the status of these ventures? Recently, I've completed
                minor league hitting, pitching and fielding stats for AAA and AA for
                the 1961 season (as found in the Sporting News Official Guide).
                <<

                Does the guide identify the players, showing whether the IL1961 Bob
                Miller is the EL1961 Bob Miller or whether either one is the NL1962 Bob
                Miller?
                Presuming not, do you know the answers?

                >>
                To answer the question posed by Sean: the #1 thing I'd like to see
                in the DB is the addition of minor league statistics. At the very
                least, we would have the year and teams for every player who ever made
                it to the Show. That's not a structural enhancement to the DB, but
                that's my two cents. I would love to talk with folks who might agree
                with me and might be interested in trying to get that accomplished.
                <<

                That's much too big.

                I do think it is a proper function of the bbdb egroup to report and
                assess what has been done --digitally, leaving the SABR Minor Lg Cmte
                to keep up with the field more generally.

                Is there a period of time for which the research, compilation and
                digization has all done? Consider the last ten years, 1996 to 2005.
                Can one look up whether Tony Rodriguez of the 1996 Boston Red Sox is
                Tony Rodriguez of the 2001 Nashua Pride (independent)?
                Can you, Dan, do that much, the last decade, using the local resources
                and internet subscriptions of the NBHOFM?

                Paul Wendt


                Marc Okkonen is working forward from 1900 and Reed Howard back from
                1900, perhaps limited to or focusing on organized baseball and major
                league players respectively. Bob Richardson has done the New England
                League, ~1885 to 1915. Pat Doyle has worked from sometime back to the
                1920s and his version 6.0 database covers 1922 to 2004. He alone of
                this quartet has published anything.
                http://www.baseball-almanac.com/minor-league/about.html

                They have all worked for years and I guess all but Bob R recognize that
                they probably can't finish in this lifetime.








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              • KJOK
                They have all worked for years and I guess all but Bob R recognize that they probably can t finish in this lifetime. I m going to apologize up front for
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 27, 2006
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                  "They have all worked for years and I guess all but Bob R recognize
                  that
                  they probably can't finish in this lifetime."

                  I'm going to apologize up front for editorializing somewhat off
                  topic, but part of the reason for not being able to finish in this
                  lifetime is that some minor league researchers refuse to share their
                  research with others. Yes, that's a bit of an exaggeration perhaps,
                  and they do have the right to attempt to make a profit on their work
                  if they desire, but certainly more progress could be made if data
                  already digitized would be made more publicly available.

                  THANKS,
                  Kevin

                  --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wendt <pgw02472@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --- Anthony Giacalone <agiacalone@c...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >> I know that several people are working on minor league stats.
                  Does
                  > anyone know the status of these ventures? Recently, I've completed
                  > minor league hitting, pitching and fielding stats for AAA and AA
                  for
                  > the 1961 season (as found in the Sporting News Official Guide).
                  > <<
                  >
                  > Does the guide identify the players, showing whether the IL1961 Bob
                  > Miller is the EL1961 Bob Miller or whether either one is the
                  NL1962 Bob
                  > Miller?
                  > Presuming not, do you know the answers?
                  >
                  > >>
                  > To answer the question posed by Sean: the #1 thing I'd like to see
                  > in the DB is the addition of minor league statistics. At the very
                  > least, we would have the year and teams for every player who ever
                  made
                  > it to the Show. That's not a structural enhancement to the DB, but
                  > that's my two cents. I would love to talk with folks who might
                  agree
                  > with me and might be interested in trying to get that accomplished.
                  > <<
                  >
                  > That's much too big.
                  >
                  > I do think it is a proper function of the bbdb egroup to report and
                  > assess what has been done --digitally, leaving the SABR Minor Lg
                  Cmte
                  > to keep up with the field more generally.
                  >
                  > Is there a period of time for which the research, compilation and
                  > digization has all done? Consider the last ten years, 1996 to
                  2005.
                  > Can one look up whether Tony Rodriguez of the 1996 Boston Red Sox
                  is
                  > Tony Rodriguez of the 2001 Nashua Pride (independent)?
                  > Can you, Dan, do that much, the last decade, using the local
                  resources
                  > and internet subscriptions of the NBHOFM?
                  >
                  > Paul Wendt
                  >
                  >
                  > Marc Okkonen is working forward from 1900 and Reed Howard back from
                  > 1900, perhaps limited to or focusing on organized baseball and
                  major
                  > league players respectively. Bob Richardson has done the New
                  England
                  > League, ~1885 to 1915. Pat Doyle has worked from sometime back to
                  the
                  > 1920s and his version 6.0 database covers 1922 to 2004. He alone
                  of
                  > this quartet has published anything.
                  > http://www.baseball-almanac.com/minor-league/about.html
                  >
                  > They have all worked for years and I guess all but Bob R recognize
                  that
                  > they probably can't finish in this lifetime.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
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                • Anthony Giacalone
                  ... No. However, you can solve this pretty easily by cross-checking with the Baseball Registers.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 27, 2006
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                    Paul Wendt wrote:

                    > --- Anthony Giacalone <agiacalone@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >> I know that several people are working on minor league stats. Does
                    > anyone know the status of these ventures? Recently, I've completed
                    > minor league hitting, pitching and fielding stats for AAA and AA for
                    > the 1961 season (as found in the Sporting News Official Guide).
                    > <<
                    >
                    > Does the guide identify the players, showing whether the IL1961 Bob
                    > Miller is the EL1961 Bob Miller or whether either one is the NL1962 Bob
                    > Miller?
                    > Presuming not, do you know the answers?


                    No. However, you can solve this pretty easily by cross-checking with
                    the Baseball Registers.
                  • Anthony Giacalone
                    ... Yeah. That s the key, Kevin. I have ability to do almost any minor league season from 1961 to the present. However, I don t want to redo what someone
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 27, 2006
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                      KJOK wrote:

                      > "They have all worked for years and I guess all but Bob R recognize
                      > that
                      > they probably can't finish in this lifetime."
                      >
                      > I'm going to apologize up front for editorializing somewhat off
                      > topic, but part of the reason for not being able to finish in this
                      > lifetime is that some minor league researchers refuse to share their
                      > research with others. Yes, that's a bit of an exaggeration perhaps,
                      > and they do have the right to attempt to make a profit on their work
                      > if they desire, but certainly more progress could be made if data
                      > already digitized would be made more publicly available.


                      Yeah. That's the key, Kevin. I have ability to do almost any minor
                      league season from 1961 to the present. However, I don't want to redo
                      what someone has already done. I'd rather apply my time to time to
                      something that still needs to be completed.

                      -- Anthony
                    • tjruane
                      ... That only helps with the small minority of players who appeared in the Baseball Register after appearing in the minor leagues. The vast majority of name
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 29, 2006
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                        Anthony Giacalone wrote:

                        > No. However, you can solve this pretty easily by cross-checking
                        > with the Baseball Registers.

                        That only helps with the small minority of players who appeared in the
                        Baseball Register after appearing in the minor leagues. The vast
                        majority of name collisions would occur with players who a) never
                        appeared in the major leagues, b) never saw sufficient action from
                        that point on to warrant inclusion the "The Games 400", or c) predated
                        the Baseball Register altogether.

                        Tom Ruane
                      • Paul Wendt
                        ... I have ability to do almost any minor league season from 1961 to the present. However, I don t want to redo what someone has already done. I d rather
                        Message 11 of 11 , Feb 3, 2006
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                          --- Anthony Giacalone <agiacalone@...> wrote:
                          > [KJOK]
                          > > certainly more progress could be made if data
                          > > already digitized would be made more publicly available.
                          >>
                          I have ability to do almost any minor league season from 1961 to the
                          present. However, I don't want to redo what someone has already done.
                          I'd rather apply my time to time to something that still needs to be
                          completed.
                          <<

                          For what it's worth, I don't know of any projects covering minor league
                          seasons so recent as 1961. And I don't know that anyone is
                          transcribing or scanning minor league data on significant scale as
                          opposed to compiling it.

                          I mentioned Reed Howard in the 19th century, Marc Okkonen working
                          forward from 1900, and Pat Doyle creeping backward now in the early
                          1920s (with various intensive and various extensive scope).

                          I know of one mid-century project. Joel Dinda is indexing the Baseball
                          Registers, working forward in the 1940s and 1950s. Everyone here
                          should be aware of that project, partly because it has already been an
                          important example in one of our general discussions.

                          http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/baseball-databank/messages/2522

                          With my settings, that is messages 2522-2551 and "Next" gets 2552-2581.

                          All of these are research projects, not transcribing or scanning
                          projects.

                          Paul Wendt

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