Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [baseball-databank] Different teamID's for A.A. Baltimore teams

Expand Messages
  • Paul Wendt
    Bill Knight & others, The Baltimore Orioles were one base ball club, 1882 to 1899. Around 1890, managed by Bill Barnie and owned by Harry von der Horst. After
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 3, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Bill Knight & others,

      The Baltimore Orioles were one base ball club, 1882 to 1899.
      Around 1890, managed by Bill Barnie and owned by Harry von der Horst.

      After the 1889 season, the Brooklyn, Cinci, Baltimore, and Kansas City
      clubs abandoned their AA franchises (*in the business of baseball, not the
      baseball database sense). The first two received NL franchises (a sure
      thing, if not formally arranged in advance; the cities were coveted).
      Baltimore and KC joined minor leagues. The AA awarded franchises to three
      strong minor league clubs and to a new club in Brooklyn. The latter
      folded mid-season and the Baltimore Orioles replaced it.

      When the NL and AA merged after the 1891 season, the 8 NL clubs and 4 of
      the AA clubs including Baltimore retained their franchises*.

      teamID BL3 apparently identifies that franchise* but I don't think teamID
      generally does that. The structure isn't easy to perfect; I'm not sure it
      is worth improving short of incorporating minor and independent clubs.

      There has been some mention of a clubs project for the SABR 19c Cmte.

      P/\/ \/\/t
      Paul Wendt, Watertown MA, USA <pgw@...>
      Chair, 19th Century Committee, SABR
      Owner-Administrator, 19cBB (egroup at Yahoo)


      > Why do the 1890 and 1891 A.A. Baltimore Orioles have a different
      > teamID (BL3) than the A.A. Baltimore Orioles from 1882 to 1889 (BL2)?
      >
      > select name, teamid, lgid, yearid from teams where franchid = "BLO"
      >
      > +-------------------+--------+------+--------+
      > | name | teamid | lgid | yearid |
      > +-------------------+--------+------+--------+
      > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1882 |
      > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1883 |
      > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1884 |
      > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1885 |
      > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1886 |
      > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1887 |
      > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1888 |
      > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1889 |
      > | Baltimore Orioles | BL3 | AA | 1890 |
      > | Baltimore Orioles | BL3 | AA | 1891 |
      > +-------------------+--------+------+--------+
      >
      > Thanks.
      >
      > Bill Knight
    • Paul Wendt
      ... The present IDs enable selection of the whole 1882-1899 history and its subsets demarcated 1889-1890 or 1891-1892. What practical problems does it create?
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 3, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        > > Why do the 1890 and 1891 A.A. Baltimore Orioles have a different
        > > teamID (BL3) than the A.A. Baltimore Orioles from 1882 to 1889 (BL2)?
        > >
        > > select name, teamid, lgid, yearid from teams where franchid = "BLO"

        The present IDs enable selection of the whole 1882-1899 history and its
        subsets demarcated 1889-1890 or 1891-1892. What practical problems does
        it create?

        Paul Wendt
      • wknight94
        These are great explanations for why they have different team ID s. From the sounds of it, however, they should also have different franchise ID s. In fact,
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 3, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          These are great explanations for why they have different team ID's.
          From the sounds of it, however, they should also have different
          franchise ID's. In fact, it sounds like the Baltimore A.A. team of
          1890 and 1891 is more closely related to the Brooklyn A.A. team of
          1890 than to the pre-1890 Baltimore A.A. teams.

          As far as what the problem is with this, it's simply a matter of
          team grouping. At least in my humble opinion. Not a hige deal -
          just wondering really. I know things baseball-related get very
          difficult to follow this far back.

          Bill Knight


          --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wendt <pgw@t...>
          wrote:
          > Bill Knight & others,
          >
          > The Baltimore Orioles were one base ball club, 1882 to 1899.
          > Around 1890, managed by Bill Barnie and owned by Harry von der
          Horst.
          >
          > After the 1889 season, the Brooklyn, Cinci, Baltimore, and Kansas
          City
          > clubs abandoned their AA franchises (*in the business of baseball,
          not the
          > baseball database sense). The first two received NL franchises (a
          sure
          > thing, if not formally arranged in advance; the cities were
          coveted).
          > Baltimore and KC joined minor leagues. The AA awarded franchises
          to three
          > strong minor league clubs and to a new club in Brooklyn. The
          latter
          > folded mid-season and the Baltimore Orioles replaced it.
          >
          > When the NL and AA merged after the 1891 season, the 8 NL clubs
          and 4 of
          > the AA clubs including Baltimore retained their franchises*.
          >
          > teamID BL3 apparently identifies that franchise* but I don't think
          teamID
          > generally does that. The structure isn't easy to perfect; I'm not
          sure it
          > is worth improving short of incorporating minor and independent
          clubs.
          >
          > There has been some mention of a clubs project for the SABR 19c
          Cmte.
          >
          > P/\/ \/\/t
          > Paul Wendt, Watertown MA, USA <pgw@w...>
          > Chair, 19th Century Committee, SABR
          > Owner-Administrator, 19cBB (egroup at Yahoo)
          >
          >
          > > Why do the 1890 and 1891 A.A. Baltimore Orioles have a different
          > > teamID (BL3) than the A.A. Baltimore Orioles from 1882 to 1889
          (BL2)?
          > >
          > > select name, teamid, lgid, yearid from teams where franchid
          = "BLO"
          > >
          > > +-------------------+--------+------+--------+
          > > | name | teamid | lgid | yearid |
          > > +-------------------+--------+------+--------+
          > > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1882 |
          > > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1883 |
          > > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1884 |
          > > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1885 |
          > > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1886 |
          > > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1887 |
          > > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1888 |
          > > | Baltimore Orioles | BL2 | AA | 1889 |
          > > | Baltimore Orioles | BL3 | AA | 1890 |
          > > | Baltimore Orioles | BL3 | AA | 1891 |
          > > +-------------------+--------+------+--------+
          > >
          > > Thanks.
          > >
          > > Bill Knight
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.