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TO DO - updated list

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  • tangotiger <tmasc@yahoo.com>
    Here is a list of outstanding items that we ve brought up in the last few months. I have provided the message number, so if you want more details, simply
    Message 1 of 28 , Jan 9, 2003
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      Here is a list of outstanding items that we've brought up in the last
      few months. I have provided the message number, so if you want more
      details, simply attach this URL
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseball-databank/message/
      followed by the item number. The first one, for example would be
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseball-databank/message/1235

      I've separated them by "priorities" of importance.


      ==========================
      PRIORITY 1 - Handle ASAP
      Type:
      (1) any item that contains errors in data
      (2) data that existed, and is now missing
      ==========================
      HOF ERRORS
      1235
      1237
      1238
      (Sean Forman handling.)

      BATTING ERRORS
      1233
      (KJOK posted corrections.)

      PITCHING ERRORS
      1216-1220
      1232
      (KJOK posted corrections.)

      STINT ID
      1215
      1227-1228
      1230-1231

      PLAYER/MANAGER ERRORS
      1212

      DATA ERRORS
      1129
      1144
      1186
      1191-1194

      NEW FILES - errors
      1091

      Positions - Existence/Loss
      988 - 990
      (We used to have some PR/PH data. We don't anymore.)

      ==========================
      PRIORITY 2 - Handle Very Very Soon
      Type:
      (1) Organizational, procedural items for handling BDB
      ==========================
      DISTINGUISH BETWEEN OFFICIAL/UNOFFICIAL ERRORS
      1241
      (Some are known accepted errors.)

      POW-WOW / organizational direction
      1112-1113
      1170
      1202
      (CVS, roles/responsibilities. No movement.)

      SCRIPTS / FILE STRUCTURE
      1092-1093
      1095-1097
      1101
      1109
      1111 (proposal/accepted)
      1173 (proposal)
      (Derek to write some of the scripts.)

      FAQ - SYNTAX RULES - field delimiters
      987
      1032-1037
      (To be used for above.)

      Access - 97/2000/XP
      many (macro only confirmed to work with Access 2000)
      1079
      1084-1085
      (Tom needs to create the latest schema.ini file, and give direction
      as to producing it programmatically. Scripts may need to be written.)

      ==========================
      PRIORITY 3 - Handle Very Soon
      Type:
      (1) Primary Tables
      ==========================
      EXTRA DATA
      1110
      1114
      1142-1143
      1208
      (Should be incorporated. Status unknown. Is Derek's XREF for
      Retro/Player ID updated?)


      ==========================
      PRIORITY 4 - Handle Soon
      Type:
      (1) Design Issues, normalization, keys
      (2) XREF to other databases
      (3) Standards
      ==========================
      SIZE OF FIELDS
      1213
      (Try to imrpove sizing of DB.)

      STINT ID
      1196
      (Use is inconsistent or wrong.)

      PARKS
      1117-1120
      1161
      1181-1182
      1223
      (Tom/KJOK updated and uploaded. The BDB/TEAMS table should be updated
      so that it references the new PARK ID, and not the Park NAME.)

      TEAMS / FRANCHISES - XREF to retrosheet
      1145-1147
      1174-1175
      1183-1184

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RetroList/message/1904
      1907-1911
      (Paul, KJOK reviewing. Discussions to follow. Tom to upload mid-
      Jan.)


      DESIGN - leagues - create table
      1055-1062
      1068-1075
      1077-1081
      (Paul, KJOK, Tom should propose something.)

      DESIGN - normalization - teams/franchises
      1042
      1045
      1049
      1051-1053
      (Should be implemented, unless more discussions required.)

      DESIGN - keys - manager table
      1043
      (Should be implemented. This is in ERROR.)

      DESIGN - keys - lg ID
      1044
      1048
      (Should be implemented. This is in ERROR.)

      Place Names - ISO standards
      940
      950
      952
      956
      960
      967-969
      (Proposal/resolution required.)


      ==========================
      PRIORITY 5 - Handle At Some point
      Type:
      (1) Cool add-ons
      (2) Secondary (tertiary?) data/tables
      ==========================
      POSITIONS
      1178
      1239-1240
      (Need someone to program the determination of primary positions. Tom
      has uploaded complex query, but it could be improved.)

      Umpires/HOF/Coaches/Executives/no-hitters
      876
      879
      881
      883-886
      888-889
      891-898
      1133
      1136-1139
      1185
      1199-1201
      (Mike Crain: Umps working on. HOF completed and integrated. Coaches
      near completion. Executives ongoing.)
      (Derek: working on no-hitters from Mike.)

      END-USER INTERFACES
      1203-1206
      1209-1210
      1214
      (Ongoing work by a few individuals.)


      19th-century transactions
      1224
      (Mike uploaded.)

      ==========================
      PRIORITY 6 - Unknown
      ==========================
      INSIDE THE PARK HR
      1163
      (On hold.)

      MASTER - DOB
      1054
      (No one has stepped forward to handle. Not critical.)

      Negro League data, Japanese League data, Minor League data, Executives
      (No note. No one has stepped forward to handle. Not critical.)
    • Michael Westbay
      Baseball Databank, I realized that this TODO list is rather old, but I think I may be able ... Let me introduce myself. My name is Michael Westbay and I ve
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 22, 2003
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        Baseball Databank,

        I realized that this TODO list is rather old, but I think I may be able
        to help in a "not critical" segment of the database:

        > ==========================
        > PRIORITY 6 - Unknown
        > ==========================
        > [...]
        >
        > [...], Japanese League data, [...]
        > (No note. No one has stepped forward to handle. Not critical.)

        Let me introduce myself. My name is Michael Westbay and I've been
        building a database for Japanese baseball since 1995. While not
        necessarilly complete (missing players who joined mid-way) and
        containing some errors (I find a few every year), it's a super-set of
        the old, non-relational Lahman database in many ways, such as having
        name fields for everything/everyone in English, Kanji, and Yomigana
        (Hiragana and Katakana - the pronunciation character sets). My database
        runs my Player Meikan (Registery) on my web site. You can get an idea
        of the data I have by going through the Teams and Players links at the
        top of http://www.japanesebaseball.com/ .

        I explained to KJOK-san, who invited me to this list, that I won't have
        time to convert my database until the off season. However, if anyone is
        interested and/or has the time, I'd be more than willing to upload what
        I have. The biggest task will be converting between IDs, and filling in
        the information I don't have (for example, I only have state/prefecture,
        and in some cases, country birthplace information, no city information).

        To make the task easier, I'd like to extract the information from my
        database using the database schema that best matches what you're using.
        I've downloaded BDB_2003_01_31.zip and used MDB-TOOLS to extract the
        CREATE statements from the bdbshell2K_2003_01_31.mdb file. (mdb-export
        core dumps, so I can't seem to get to the actual data, yet.) I've seen
        mention of auto-increment IDs in some of the archives, but mdb-schema
        doesn't appear to extract that nor primary key information, although I
        can get primary keys and foreign keys from BDBLayout.jpg.

        Before I try to create these tables, though, I'd like to know if there
        is an initialization script for MySQL or PostgreSQL. HypersonicSQL or
        McKoi DB will also do nicely. Everything I've found so far has been for
        various versions of Access which appear to have compatibility issues
        between themselves. (Sasuga Microsoft.) KJOK-san mentioned that the
        more technical people here use a "real" database. What do you use, and
        can you post the scripts?

        I'll post my schema initialization file to the files section this
        evening (JST). If you like, I can post my data in an as-is format
        there, too, until I can extract it in something close to BDB schema.

        I look forward to sharing what I have with this group, and I hope that
        some find it useful.

        --
        Michael Westbay
        Writer/System Administrator
        http://JapaneseBaseball.com
      • tmasc@yahoo.com
        Great to have you on board! The main data is stored by Sean Forman in a MySQL database on Linux. He exports it to flat files, and I and/or Sean Lahman import
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 23, 2003
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          Great to have you on board!

          The main data is stored by Sean Forman in a MySQL
          database on Linux. He exports it to flat files, and I
          and/or Sean Lahman import it into Access.

          On the baseball-databank.org site, there should be
          Forman's MySQL db scripts to create the tables, and
          the insert statements, as well as (I think) the db
          schema.

          Yes, upload whatever data you have, and I'd like t
          sift through it.

          Tom



          --- Michael Westbay
          <westbaystars@...> wrote:
          > Baseball Databank,
          >
          > I realized that this TODO list is rather old, but I
          > think I may be able
          > to help in a "not critical" segment of the database:
          >
          > > ==========================
          > > PRIORITY 6 - Unknown
          > > ==========================
          > > [...]
          > >
          > > [...], Japanese League data, [...]
          > > (No note. No one has stepped forward to handle.
          > Not critical.)
          >
          > Let me introduce myself. My name is Michael Westbay
          > and I've been
          > building a database for Japanese baseball since
          > 1995. While not
          > necessarilly complete (missing players who joined
          > mid-way) and
          > containing some errors (I find a few every year),
          > it's a super-set of
          > the old, non-relational Lahman database in many
          > ways, such as having
          > name fields for everything/everyone in English,
          > Kanji, and Yomigana
          > (Hiragana and Katakana - the pronunciation character
          > sets). My database
          > runs my Player Meikan (Registery) on my web site.
          > You can get an idea
          > of the data I have by going through the Teams and
          > Players links at the
          > top of http://www.japanesebaseball.com/ .
          >
          > I explained to KJOK-san, who invited me to this
          > list, that I won't have
          > time to convert my database until the off season.
          > However, if anyone is
          > interested and/or has the time, I'd be more than
          > willing to upload what
          > I have. The biggest task will be converting between
          > IDs, and filling in
          > the information I don't have (for example, I only
          > have state/prefecture,
          > and in some cases, country birthplace information,
          > no city information).
          >
          > To make the task easier, I'd like to extract the
          > information from my
          > database using the database schema that best matches
          > what you're using.
          > I've downloaded BDB_2003_01_31.zip and used
          > MDB-TOOLS to extract the
          > CREATE statements from the bdbshell2K_2003_01_31.mdb
          > file. (mdb-export
          > core dumps, so I can't seem to get to the actual
          > data, yet.) I've seen
          > mention of auto-increment IDs in some of the
          > archives, but mdb-schema
          > doesn't appear to extract that nor primary key
          > information, although I
          > can get primary keys and foreign keys from
          > BDBLayout.jpg.
          >
          > Before I try to create these tables, though, I'd
          > like to know if there
          > is an initialization script for MySQL or PostgreSQL.
          > HypersonicSQL or
          > McKoi DB will also do nicely. Everything I've found
          > so far has been for
          > various versions of Access which appear to have
          > compatibility issues
          > between themselves. (Sasuga Microsoft.) KJOK-san
          > mentioned that the
          > more technical people here use a "real" database.
          > What do you use, and
          > can you post the scripts?
          >
          > I'll post my schema initialization file to the files
          > section this
          > evening (JST). If you like, I can post my data in
          > an as-is format
          > there, too, until I can extract it in something
          > close to BDB schema.
          >
          > I look forward to sharing what I have with this
          > group, and I hope that
          > some find it useful.
          >
          > --
          > Michael Westbay
          > Writer/System Administrator
          > http://JapaneseBaseball.com
          >
          >
          >


          __________________________________
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          SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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        • Michael Westbay
          ... I guess that s where I need to look, then. After work tomorrow. ... Uploaded. You can extract the tar.gz file with WinZip if you re on Windows. The only
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 23, 2003
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            Tom wrote:

            >On the baseball-databank.org site, there should be
            >Forman's MySQL db scripts to create the tables, and
            >the insert statements, as well as (I think) the db
            >schema.
            >

            I guess that's where I need to look, then. After work tomorrow.

            >Yes, upload whatever data you have, and I'd like t
            >sift through it.
            >
            >

            Uploaded. You can extract the tar.gz file with WinZip if you're on Windows.

            The only thing you might have trouble with are the Kanji. My database
            is bilingual. And since I do everything on UNIX(-like - so as not to
            upset SCO) (FreeBSD and lately Mac OS X), my files are encoded in
            EUC-JP. Microsoft tends to do everything in MS-932, an annoyingly
            extended version of Shift JIS. Many Open Source and shareware tools,
            even on MS, can handle EUC-JP files, so if you can read Japanese, it
            shouldn't be a problem.

            If the Japanese is all Greek to you, just ignore those fields.

            Let me know if you need any further explainations of the data. I
            commented the init.sql file a bit, and README.txt has a little more
            information.

            Take care.

            --
            Michael Westbay
            Writer/System Administrator
            http://JapaneseBaseball.com
          • tangotiger
            I believe that this is the last TO DO list that I compiled. It was done Jan, 2003, and therefore needs to have 8 months of additions. I m bringing this
            Message 5 of 28 , Aug 13, 2003
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              I believe that this is the last TO DO list that I compiled. It was
              done Jan, 2003, and therefore needs to have 8 months of additions.

              I'm bringing this forward as a supplement to Sean's note. Please
              reply to Sean's note to discuss his topic.

              Tom


              --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "tangotiger <tmasc@y...>"
              <tmasc@y...> wrote:
              > Here is a list of outstanding items that we've brought up in the
              last
              > few months. I have provided the message number, so if you want more
              > details, simply attach this URL
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseball-databank/message/
              > followed by the item number. The first one, for example would be
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseball-databank/message/1235
              >
              > I've separated them by "priorities" of importance.
              >
              >
              > ==========================
              > PRIORITY 1 - Handle ASAP
              > Type:
              > (1) any item that contains errors in data
              > (2) data that existed, and is now missing
              > ==========================
              > HOF ERRORS
              > 1235
              > 1237
              > 1238
              > (Sean Forman handling.)
              >
              > BATTING ERRORS
              > 1233
              > (KJOK posted corrections.)
              >
              > PITCHING ERRORS
              > 1216-1220
              > 1232
              > (KJOK posted corrections.)
              >
              > STINT ID
              > 1215
              > 1227-1228
              > 1230-1231
              >
              > PLAYER/MANAGER ERRORS
              > 1212
              >
              > DATA ERRORS
              > 1129
              > 1144
              > 1186
              > 1191-1194
              >
              > NEW FILES - errors
              > 1091
              >
              > Positions - Existence/Loss
              > 988 - 990
              > (We used to have some PR/PH data. We don't anymore.)
              >
              > ==========================
              > PRIORITY 2 - Handle Very Very Soon
              > Type:
              > (1) Organizational, procedural items for handling BDB
              > ==========================
              > DISTINGUISH BETWEEN OFFICIAL/UNOFFICIAL ERRORS
              > 1241
              > (Some are known accepted errors.)
              >
              > POW-WOW / organizational direction
              > 1112-1113
              > 1170
              > 1202
              > (CVS, roles/responsibilities. No movement.)
              >
              > SCRIPTS / FILE STRUCTURE
              > 1092-1093
              > 1095-1097
              > 1101
              > 1109
              > 1111 (proposal/accepted)
              > 1173 (proposal)
              > (Derek to write some of the scripts.)
              >
              > FAQ - SYNTAX RULES - field delimiters
              > 987
              > 1032-1037
              > (To be used for above.)
              >
              > Access - 97/2000/XP
              > many (macro only confirmed to work with Access 2000)
              > 1079
              > 1084-1085
              > (Tom needs to create the latest schema.ini file, and give direction
              > as to producing it programmatically. Scripts may need to be
              written.)
              >
              > ==========================
              > PRIORITY 3 - Handle Very Soon
              > Type:
              > (1) Primary Tables
              > ==========================
              > EXTRA DATA
              > 1110
              > 1114
              > 1142-1143
              > 1208
              > (Should be incorporated. Status unknown. Is Derek's XREF for
              > Retro/Player ID updated?)
              >
              >
              > ==========================
              > PRIORITY 4 - Handle Soon
              > Type:
              > (1) Design Issues, normalization, keys
              > (2) XREF to other databases
              > (3) Standards
              > ==========================
              > SIZE OF FIELDS
              > 1213
              > (Try to imrpove sizing of DB.)
              >
              > STINT ID
              > 1196
              > (Use is inconsistent or wrong.)
              >
              > PARKS
              > 1117-1120
              > 1161
              > 1181-1182
              > 1223
              > (Tom/KJOK updated and uploaded. The BDB/TEAMS table should be
              updated
              > so that it references the new PARK ID, and not the Park NAME.)
              >
              > TEAMS / FRANCHISES - XREF to retrosheet
              > 1145-1147
              > 1174-1175
              > 1183-1184
              >
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RetroList/message/1904
              > 1907-1911
              > (Paul, KJOK reviewing. Discussions to follow. Tom to upload mid-
              > Jan.)
              >
              >
              > DESIGN - leagues - create table
              > 1055-1062
              > 1068-1075
              > 1077-1081
              > (Paul, KJOK, Tom should propose something.)
              >
              > DESIGN - normalization - teams/franchises
              > 1042
              > 1045
              > 1049
              > 1051-1053
              > (Should be implemented, unless more discussions required.)
              >
              > DESIGN - keys - manager table
              > 1043
              > (Should be implemented. This is in ERROR.)
              >
              > DESIGN - keys - lg ID
              > 1044
              > 1048
              > (Should be implemented. This is in ERROR.)
              >
              > Place Names - ISO standards
              > 940
              > 950
              > 952
              > 956
              > 960
              > 967-969
              > (Proposal/resolution required.)
              >
              >
              > ==========================
              > PRIORITY 5 - Handle At Some point
              > Type:
              > (1) Cool add-ons
              > (2) Secondary (tertiary?) data/tables
              > ==========================
              > POSITIONS
              > 1178
              > 1239-1240
              > (Need someone to program the determination of primary positions.
              Tom
              > has uploaded complex query, but it could be improved.)
              >
              > Umpires/HOF/Coaches/Executives/no-hitters
              > 876
              > 879
              > 881
              > 883-886
              > 888-889
              > 891-898
              > 1133
              > 1136-1139
              > 1185
              > 1199-1201
              > (Mike Crain: Umps working on. HOF completed and integrated.
              Coaches
              > near completion. Executives ongoing.)
              > (Derek: working on no-hitters from Mike.)
              >
              > END-USER INTERFACES
              > 1203-1206
              > 1209-1210
              > 1214
              > (Ongoing work by a few individuals.)
              >
              >
              > 19th-century transactions
              > 1224
              > (Mike uploaded.)
              >
              > ==========================
              > PRIORITY 6 - Unknown
              > ==========================
              > INSIDE THE PARK HR
              > 1163
              > (On hold.)
              >
              > MASTER - DOB
              > 1054
              > (No one has stepped forward to handle. Not critical.)
              >
              > Negro League data, Japanese League data, Minor League data,
              Executives
              > (No note. No one has stepped forward to handle. Not critical.)
            • Sean Forman
              ... I ve added the place names to my list. I think I had most everything else from the list you posted. Thank you for compiling that. -- Sincerely, Sean
              Message 6 of 28 , Aug 14, 2003
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                tangotiger wrote:
                > I believe that this is the last TO DO list that I compiled. It was
                > done Jan, 2003, and therefore needs to have 8 months of additions.
                >
                > I'm bringing this forward as a supplement to Sean's note. Please
                > reply to Sean's note to discuss his topic.
                >
                > Tom


                I've added the place names to my list. I think I had most everything
                else from the list you posted. Thank you for compiling that.

                --
                Sincerely,
                Sean Forman

                Baseball Stats! http://www.Baseball-Reference.com/
                Baseball Analysis! http://www.BaseballPrimer.com/
              • Michael Mavrogiannis
                From Sean Forman s list ... Since Fielding as OF is an official statistic, and Fielding as LF,CF,RF are unofficial statistics, should we really be removing the
                Message 7 of 28 , Aug 15, 2003
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                  From Sean Forman's list
                  >>Use retrosheet data to add LF, RF, CF data
                  >>for more years and remove OF for those years.
                  Since Fielding as OF is an official statistic, and Fielding as LF,CF,RF are
                  unofficial statistics, should we really be removing the official data? If
                  the unofficial data is more interesting, shouldn't we find a way to carry
                  both?

                  A few other odds and ends which I did not notice on the latest TO DO's:

                  The field Batting.G is incorrect for most pitchers since 1997.

                  Fielding statistics for LF,CF,RF in 1997 for players with multiple stints
                  have all stints combined and are listed only with the player's final team of
                  the season.

                  In the PitchingPost table, the fields GS, SHO, HR, and BAOpp are missing for
                  most years, with sporadic values sprinkled in to confuse researchers. Did
                  you know that Buck Becannon and Andy Pettitte started, apparently unopposed,
                  the sole post-season games of the 1884 and 1995 seasons? You would if you
                  were to believe the dirty lyin' database. As recently as 1999, there were an
                  odd number of games started in the post-season.

                  Hope this helps.
                • tmasc@yahoo.com
                  ... This is an interesting point. After all, if you ve got Dawson as 1200 CF and 1100 RF and he only played 2100 OF, it would be a shame to lose what the
                  Message 8 of 28 , Aug 15, 2003
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                    --- Michael Mavrogiannis <mmavrogi@...>
                    wrote:
                    > From Sean Forman's list
                    > >>Use retrosheet data to add LF, RF, CF data
                    > >>for more years and remove OF for those years.
                    > Since Fielding as OF is an official statistic, and
                    > Fielding as LF,CF,RF are
                    > unofficial statistics, should we really be removing
                    > the official data? If
                    > the unofficial data is more interesting, shouldn't
                    > we find a way to carry
                    > both?

                    This is an interesting point. After all, if you've
                    got Dawson as 1200 CF and 1100 RF and he only played
                    2100 OF, it would be a shame to lose what the official
                    records have (2100 games), and replace it by the other
                    2. We do have a FieldingOF table, which should be
                    redesigned as I look at it now. This would address
                    Mike's issue, and would prevent the
                    mixing-and-matching that we'd have in the database.

                    I recently uploaded the innings played by retroid,pos
                    (1972-1992, 1999-2002), and now I'm kicking myself for
                    not including all the fielding data (G,PO,A,E). I
                    don't think I'll be able to get to this any time soon.

                    Finally, because we're getting alot of data from
                    retrosheet, I find it almost impossible (for me) to
                    continue until the XREF table between the BDB Ids and
                    the Retro IDs get resolved completely.

                    In addition to the
                    - DB Design Committee (whose last design should be
                    implemented in the next release),
                    - Franchise Committee (which I think they've produced
                    an interim report), and
                    - Web Interface Committee (which I'm not sure how they
                    are doing), we should have an
                    - ID XREF committee to put their stamp of approval on
                    the XREF table.

                    This will become especially important if/when mlb.com
                    will give us their player ID tables that we'll need to
                    cross-reference. And if ever we get some good minor
                    league data, well.... this can quickly become a
                    problem.

                    I also suggest that you need one or 2 overseers who
                    can do time management for other volunteers who wish
                    to contribute, but don't know what they can do. I
                    think last year there was a DB analyst that joined and
                    offered to help. I can easily see a DB proficient
                    person doing the proofing that Michael revealed in his
                    last email.

                    Finally, based on the lack of responses, it may be
                    that the momentum to get the BDB up and running may
                    have been lost. I think a time and process
                    committment from the top on down (Sean & Sean, Derek,
                    Mike, Kevin, Paul, myself, and others) should be
                    established. I asked a few months ago, and I received
                    I believe one response (KJOK?). Either we step up to
                    the plate and lead a concerted effort, or we should
                    not let people feel that their efforts are being
                    wasted.

                    Tom


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                  • Paul Wendt
                    One item in Michael M s list reminds me: Is there a clear procedure for handling *games played* as opposed to batting games, baserunning games, (perhaps
                    Message 9 of 28 , Aug 15, 2003
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                      One item in Michael M's list reminds me:

                      Is there a clear procedure for handling *games played* as opposed to
                      batting games, baserunning games, (perhaps everyone counts
                      batting/baserunning games), pitching games, fielding games?

                      "Clear" might be
                      universal among other DB maintainers
                      (Pete Palmer, STATS, maybe Tom Ruane and Clay Davenport)
                      or it might be
                      ancient and seems permanent in the official scoring rules

                      P/\/ \/\/t
                      Paul Wendt, Watertown MA, USA <pgw@...>
                    • Mike Crain
                      ... I m not sure that I d fit any of those (not the first time that s ever been said about me :-) I m working on the BDB for the SABR site. (Ported to MS SQL
                      Message 10 of 28 , Aug 15, 2003
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                        --- "tmasc@..." <tmasc@...> wrote:>

                        > In addition to the
                        > - DB Design Committee (whose last design should be
                        > implemented in the next release),
                        > - Franchise Committee (which I think they've produced
                        > an interim report), and
                        > - Web Interface Committee (which I'm not sure how they
                        > are doing), we should have an
                        > - ID XREF committee to put their stamp of approval on
                        > the XREF table.

                        I'm not sure that I'd fit any of those (not the first time that's ever
                        been said about me :-)

                        I'm working on the BDB for the SABR site. (Ported to MS SQL Server).


                        > I also suggest that you need one or 2 overseers who
                        > can do time management for other volunteers who wish
                        > to contribute, but don't know what they can do. I
                        > think last year there was a DB analyst that joined and
                        > offered to help. I can easily see a DB proficient
                        > person doing the proofing that Michael revealed in his
                        > last email.
                        >
                        > Finally, based on the lack of responses, it may be
                        > that the momentum to get the BDB up and running may
                        > have been lost.

                        In my case I was just busy (one word - WORM) in the last few weeks. I'm
                        woring the SARB BDB, as well as working on getting transactions really
                        solidified with Tom R.


                        >I think a time and process
                        > committment from the top on down (Sean & Sean, Derek,
                        > Mike, Kevin, Paul, myself, and others) should be
                        > established. I asked a few months ago, and I received
                        > I believe one response (KJOK?). Either we step up to
                        > the plate and lead a concerted effort, or we should
                        > not let people feel that their efforts are being
                        > wasted.


                        Sorry about mu silence. Here are my priorities:
                        1. BDB for SABR (Mostly complete)
                        2. Transaction Data
                        3. Once the ID schemes are created I'll be "finalizing" (well sort of)
                        coaches, umps and execs.
                        4. Playing gaps info (where was player X between his debut in 1994 and
                        1997)
                        Correcting any errors and typos in anything I've posted.
                        5. Probably others....

                        >
                        > Tom
                        >
                        >
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                      • Jeff Burk
                        I generally understand the rules to dictate as follows: If a player is announced or enters a game as a hitter or as a pinch-runner, he gets a game counted in
                        Message 11 of 28 , Aug 16, 2003
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                          I generally understand the rules to dictate as follows:

                          If a player is announced or enters a game as a hitter or as a pinch-runner, he gets a
                          game counted in the G column in his batting statistics.

                          If he is announced or enters the game as a pitcher, he gets a game counted in his G
                          column in his pitching statistics.

                          If he is announced or enters the game as a fielder, he gets a game counted in his G
                          column in his fielding statistics.

                          I believe Rule 10.03 confirms this, but I am not 100-percent certain.

                          --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wendt <pgw@w...> wrote:
                          > One item in Michael M's list reminds me:
                          >
                          > Is there a clear procedure for handling *games played* as opposed to
                          > batting games, baserunning games, (perhaps everyone counts
                          > batting/baserunning games), pitching games, fielding games?
                          >
                          > "Clear" might be
                          > universal among other DB maintainers
                          > (Pete Palmer, STATS, maybe Tom Ruane and Clay Davenport)
                          > or it might be
                          > ancient and seems permanent in the official scoring rules
                          >
                          > P/\/ \/\/t
                          > Paul Wendt, Watertown MA, USA <pgw@w...>
                        • tmasc@yahoo.com
                          I think the biggest point Paul might be trying to make, and one which I m trying to get to as well, is: how many total games did a player play? Take Babe Ruth.
                          Message 12 of 28 , Aug 16, 2003
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                            I think the biggest point Paul might be trying to
                            make, and one which I'm trying to get to as well, is:
                            how many total games did a player play?

                            Take Babe Ruth. If he has 120 OF games, and 20 games
                            as a pitcher, did he play 140 games?

                            If you have a defensive specialist with 50 games at
                            SS, and 48 games as a hitter, how many games did he
                            really play? 50? 52? 60?

                            So, what we need is a superset to the fielding,
                            hitting, pitching tables that tells you how many games
                            the player played.

                            Tom

                            --- Jeff Burk <arkyvaughan@...> wrote:
                            > I generally understand the rules to dictate as
                            > follows:
                            >
                            > If a player is announced or enters a game as a
                            > hitter or as a pinch-runner, he gets a
                            > game counted in the G column in his batting
                            > statistics.
                            >
                            > If he is announced or enters the game as a pitcher,
                            > he gets a game counted in his G
                            > column in his pitching statistics.
                            >
                            > If he is announced or enters the game as a fielder,
                            > he gets a game counted in his G
                            > column in his fielding statistics.
                            >
                            > I believe Rule 10.03 confirms this, but I am not
                            > 100-percent certain.
                            >
                            > --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wendt
                            > <pgw@w...> wrote:
                            > > One item in Michael M's list reminds me:
                            > >
                            > > Is there a clear procedure for handling *games
                            > played* as opposed to
                            > > batting games, baserunning games, (perhaps
                            > everyone counts
                            > > batting/baserunning games), pitching games,
                            > fielding games?
                            > >
                            > > "Clear" might be
                            > > universal among other DB maintainers
                            > > (Pete Palmer, STATS, maybe Tom Ruane and Clay
                            > Davenport)
                            > > or it might be
                            > > ancient and seems permanent in the official
                            > scoring rules
                            > >
                            > > P/\/ \/\/t
                            > > Paul Wendt, Watertown MA, USA <pgw@w...>
                            >
                            >
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                            >
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                          • KJOK
                            2 cents: First, we always seem to lose momentum about this time of year, but it always picks up as soon as the season ends. Second, with the season end only 6
                            Message 13 of 28 , Aug 16, 2003
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                              2 cents:

                              First, we always seem to lose momentum about this time of year, but
                              it always picks up as soon as the season ends.

                              Second, with the season end only 6 weeks away, I would suggest the
                              next big, important issue coming up is getting 2003 data into the
                              database as quickly as possible once the season ends.

                              Accordingly, for the next 6 weeks, I think the focus should be on
                              getting the existing data elements for 1871-2002 "in order" and ready
                              to have the 2003 data added and a new version created. This means
                              correcting known errors, finalizing any design changes and table
                              additions, etc. and not focusing so much on "new" data to add at this
                              time.

                              So, if any has specific items that need to be addressed, please post
                              them. If it's a design/database issue, someone else will have to
                              tackle it, but if it's a data issue, I will volunteer to be one of
                              the people trying to shore up the data in the next 6 weeks.

                              THANKS,
                              Kevin

                              - In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "tmasc@y..." <tmasc@y...>
                              wrote:
                              ............
                              >
                              > Finally, because we're getting alot of data from
                              > retrosheet, I find it almost impossible (for me) to
                              > continue until the XREF table between the BDB Ids and
                              > the Retro IDs get resolved completely.
                              >
                              > In addition to the
                              > - DB Design Committee (whose last design should be
                              > implemented in the next release),
                              > - Franchise Committee (which I think they've produced
                              > an interim report), and
                              > - Web Interface Committee (which I'm not sure how they
                              > are doing), we should have an
                              > - ID XREF committee to put their stamp of approval on
                              > the XREF table.
                              >
                              > This will become especially important if/when mlb.com
                              > will give us their player ID tables that we'll need to
                              > cross-reference. And if ever we get some good minor
                              > league data, well.... this can quickly become a
                              > problem.
                              >
                              > I also suggest that you need one or 2 overseers who
                              > can do time management for other volunteers who wish
                              > to contribute, but don't know what they can do. I
                              > think last year there was a DB analyst that joined and
                              > offered to help. I can easily see a DB proficient
                              > person doing the proofing that Michael revealed in his
                              > last email.
                              >
                              > Finally, based on the lack of responses, it may be
                              > that the momentum to get the BDB up and running may
                              > have been lost. I think a time and process
                              > committment from the top on down (Sean & Sean, Derek,
                              > Mike, Kevin, Paul, myself, and others) should be
                              > established. I asked a few months ago, and I received
                              > I believe one response (KJOK?). Either we step up to
                              > the plate and lead a concerted effort, or we should
                              > not let people feel that their efforts are being
                              > wasted.
                              >
                              > Tom
                              >
                              >
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                            • Jeff Burk
                              Sorry I misunderstood. Yes, I guess this is an issue. Also, I d be interested in a breakout of games as a DH, PH, and PR. Would a games played by position
                              Message 14 of 28 , Aug 16, 2003
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                                Sorry I misunderstood. Yes, I guess this is an issue. Also, I'd be interested in a
                                breakout of games as a DH, PH, and PR.

                                Would a games played by position table do the trick? It could have Total Games,
                                Games as a P, C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, LF, CF, RF, DH, PH, and PR. Since we already have a
                                separate table for outfield games, it could go there.

                                --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "tmasc@y..." <tmasc@y...> wrote:
                                > I think the biggest point Paul might be trying to
                                > make, and one which I'm trying to get to as well, is:
                                > how many total games did a player play?
                                >
                                > Take Babe Ruth. If he has 120 OF games, and 20 games
                                > as a pitcher, did he play 140 games?
                                >
                                > If you have a defensive specialist with 50 games at
                                > SS, and 48 games as a hitter, how many games did he
                                > really play? 50? 52? 60?
                                >
                                > So, what we need is a superset to the fielding,
                                > hitting, pitching tables that tells you how many games
                                > the player played.
                                >
                                > Tom
                                >
                                > --- Jeff Burk <arkyvaughan@b...> wrote:
                                > > I generally understand the rules to dictate as
                                > > follows:
                                > >
                                > > If a player is announced or enters a game as a
                                > > hitter or as a pinch-runner, he gets a
                                > > game counted in the G column in his batting
                                > > statistics.
                                > >
                                > > If he is announced or enters the game as a pitcher,
                                > > he gets a game counted in his G
                                > > column in his pitching statistics.
                                > >
                                > > If he is announced or enters the game as a fielder,
                                > > he gets a game counted in his G
                                > > column in his fielding statistics.
                                > >
                                > > I believe Rule 10.03 confirms this, but I am not
                                > > 100-percent certain.
                                > >
                                > > --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wendt
                                > > <pgw@w...> wrote:
                                > > > One item in Michael M's list reminds me:
                                > > >
                                > > > Is there a clear procedure for handling *games
                                > > played* as opposed to
                                > > > batting games, baserunning games, (perhaps
                                > > everyone counts
                                > > > batting/baserunning games), pitching games,
                                > > fielding games?
                                > > >
                                > > > "Clear" might be
                                > > > universal among other DB maintainers
                                > > > (Pete Palmer, STATS, maybe Tom Ruane and Clay
                                > > Davenport)
                                > > > or it might be
                                > > > ancient and seems permanent in the official
                                > > scoring rules
                                > > >
                                > > > P/\/ \/\/t
                                > > > Paul Wendt, Watertown MA, USA <pgw@w...>
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                > >
                                > > http://www.baseball-databank.org/
                                > >
                                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > > baseball-databank-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
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                              • Sean Lahman
                                Agreed. My goal will be to do a release of the Access version of the database by mid-November. At that point, we should have been able to integrate 2003
                                Message 15 of 28 , Aug 16, 2003
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                                  Agreed. My goal will be to do a release of the Access version of the
                                  database by mid-November. At that point, we should have been able to
                                  integrate 2003 playing stats, postseason data, and award winners. As Kevin
                                  suggests, any other data elements that are going to be added really need to
                                  get wrapped up over the next 4-6 weeks. If we need to have some discussion
                                  about what those specific elements are, let's do it. Last year, some people
                                  expressed disappointment that some pieces weren't incorporated, and I'd like
                                  to avoid that. Also, if there are going to be any design changes, I'd like
                                  to give a heads up to the folks that maintain third-party applications.

                                  Regards,
                                  Sean Lahman



                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@...]
                                  > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 8:40 PM
                                  > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [baseball-databank] Re: TO DO - updated list
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > 2 cents:
                                  >
                                  > First, we always seem to lose momentum about this time of year, but
                                  > it always picks up as soon as the season ends.
                                  >
                                  > Second, with the season end only 6 weeks away, I would suggest the
                                  > next big, important issue coming up is getting 2003 data into the
                                  > database as quickly as possible once the season ends.
                                  >
                                  > Accordingly, for the next 6 weeks, I think the focus should be on
                                  > getting the existing data elements for 1871-2002 "in order" and ready
                                  > to have the 2003 data added and a new version created. This means
                                  > correcting known errors, finalizing any design changes and table
                                  > additions, etc. and not focusing so much on "new" data to add at this
                                  > time.
                                  >
                                  > So, if any has specific items that need to be addressed, please post
                                  > them. If it's a design/database issue, someone else will have to
                                  > tackle it, but if it's a data issue, I will volunteer to be one of
                                  > the people trying to shore up the data in the next 6 weeks.
                                  >
                                  > THANKS,
                                  > Kevin
                                • Sean Lahman
                                  ... I think this is an elegant way to address the problem, and I think a table with this data would add value by making possible any number of other queries.
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Aug 16, 2003
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                                    > From: Jeff Burk [mailto:arkyvaughan@...]
                                    > Would a games played by position table do the trick? It could
                                    > have Total Games,
                                    > Games as a P, C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, LF, CF, RF, DH, PH, and PR.
                                    > Since we already have a
                                    > separate table for outfield games, it could go there.

                                    I think this is an elegant way to address the problem, and I think a table
                                    with this data would add value by making possible any number of other
                                    queries. I would say that the data exists for games played as a PR or PH is
                                    not available for all seasons, as far as I know.

                                    Regards,
                                    Sean Lahman
                                  • tmasc@yahoo.com
                                    ... Design changes were last described on I believe Jan 31, 2003. Going forward, I think that should be incorporated. Kevin s park data is the huge thing to
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Aug 16, 2003
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                                      --- Sean Lahman <slahman@...> wrote:
                                      > Agreed. My goal will be to do a release of the
                                      > Access version of the
                                      > database by mid-November. At that point, we should
                                      > have been able to
                                      > integrate 2003 playing stats, postseason data, and
                                      > award winners.
                                      > Last year, some people
                                      > expressed disappointment that some pieces weren't
                                      > incorporated, and I'd like
                                      > to avoid that. Also, if there are going to be any
                                      > design changes, I'd like
                                      > to give a heads up to the folks that maintain
                                      > third-party applications.
                                      >

                                      Design changes were last described on I believe Jan
                                      31, 2003. Going forward, I think that should be
                                      incorporated.

                                      Kevin's park data is the huge thing to deliver this
                                      year. It's a remarkable database that needs to be
                                      integrated. The new design incorporates the KJOK park
                                      data.

                                      A project plan should be issued if a mid-Nov target
                                      date is required.

                                      If the new design will be used, then you can count me
                                      in for about 2-3 hours / week. Otherwise, I will
                                      stand aside.

                                      Finally, licencing should be discussed. I believe BDB
                                      currently shows no disclaimer. KJOK has contributed
                                      his great park data, Mike has contributed new data.
                                      Michael W the Japan data. Tom Lewis and I produced
                                      the normalized DB design.

                                      Currently, Sean Lahman sells the database (with 90% of
                                      the data probably originating from him), but incurs
                                      all the bandwidth costs as well. Sean Forman sells ad
                                      space at br.com, and again, incurs bandwidth costs,
                                      plus the costs at bdb.com . I don't know where
                                      Sinins, BP, and others get their data, but they also
                                      profit from the data.

                                      With all this new data, things aren't so cut/dried. I
                                      know Sean/Sean mentioned various licencing models (GPL
                                      and whatnot). This should be established for the
                                      next release.

                                      Tom

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                                    • Michael Westbay
                                      ... I plan on start working toward integrating my Japanese baseball data with the BDB once the season ends, so the main thing I m concerned with is having the
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Aug 16, 2003
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                                        KJOK-san wrote:

                                        >2 cents:
                                        >
                                        >First, we always seem to lose momentum about this time of year, but
                                        >it always picks up as soon as the season ends.
                                        >
                                        >[...]
                                        >
                                        >So, if any has specific items that need to be addressed, please post
                                        >them. If it's a design/database issue, someone else will have to
                                        >tackle it, but if it's a data issue, I will volunteer to be one of
                                        >the people trying to shore up the data in the next 6 weeks.
                                        >

                                        I plan on start working toward integrating my Japanese baseball data
                                        with the BDB once the season ends, so the main thing I'm concerned with
                                        is having the latest table schema set by that time. I'm very interested
                                        in what the DB Design Committee has decided on for the next version of
                                        the BDB (more numeric primary keys?), with Parks and other new tables
                                        included.

                                        From what I've gathered, the Access version (to which I don't have
                                        access since I'm all UNIX-like) contains the most recent schema. I'm
                                        still using the MySQL version from December of 2002. When will the
                                        latest schema (and data) be available in mysqldump format?

                                        Also, I was wondering if the DB Design Committee is on a different
                                        channel (mailing list). Not much in the way of design is discussed
                                        here, but that's where much of my interest is.

                                        --
                                        Michael Westbay
                                        Writer/System Administrator
                                        http://JapaneseBaseball.com
                                      • KJOK
                                        ... missing for ... researchers. Did ... unopposed, ... if you ... there were an ... I ve mostly concentrated on the regular season tables, and had never
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Aug 16, 2003
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                                          --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, Michael Mavrogiannis
                                          <mmavrogi@o...> wrote:
                                          > In the PitchingPost table, the fields GS, SHO, HR, and BAOpp are
                                          missing for
                                          > most years, with sporadic values sprinkled in to confuse
                                          researchers. Did
                                          > you know that Buck Becannon and Andy Pettitte started, apparently
                                          unopposed,
                                          > the sole post-season games of the 1884 and 1995 seasons? You would
                                          if you
                                          > were to believe the dirty lyin' database. As recently as 1999,
                                          there were an
                                          > odd number of games started in the post-season.
                                          >
                                          > Hope this helps.

                                          I've mostly concentrated on the 'regular season' tables, and had
                                          never really looked at PitchingPost, but you're right, it's weak -
                                          doesn't have GS, or even Runs Allowed, HR's allowed, etc. which are
                                          all available for post season games (at least 20th century ones). If
                                          Sean will indulge me, I'd like to create a new PitchingPost table
                                          that would have all of these plust BFP, GF, IBB, WP, GDP and even SH
                                          and SF allowed, and would replace completely the current PitchingPost
                                          Table.

                                          THANKS,
                                          Kevin
                                        • tmasc@yahoo.com
                                          ... Michael, Tom Lewis and I are the only members, and we delivered the design in Jan, and we have not made any changes/discussions since. Starting a separate
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Aug 17, 2003
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                                            --- Michael Westbay
                                            <westbaystars@...> wrote:
                                            > Also, I was wondering if the DB Design Committee is
                                            > on a different
                                            > channel (mailing list). Not much in the way of
                                            > design is discussed
                                            > here, but that's where much of my interest is.
                                            >

                                            Michael,

                                            Tom Lewis and I are the only members, and we delivered
                                            the design in Jan, and we have not made any
                                            changes/discussions since.

                                            Starting a separate yahoo group sounds like a good
                                            idea, and I'll send out a note Monday to that effect.
                                            Anyone wishing to make contributions to the design
                                            will be invited.

                                            Things like keys and the like will be discussed
                                            prominently, I'm sure.

                                            I'll also look for past threads on this issue, so that
                                            we'll all be on the same page.

                                            Tom




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                                          • tangotiger
                                            In response to Sean s email regarding roadmap and priorities, the message below is the section titles of the TO DO list of January. I would say this is
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Aug 17, 2003
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                                              In response to Sean's email regarding roadmap and priorities, the
                                              message below is the "section titles" of the "TO DO" list of
                                              January. I would say this is what we should strive for.

                                              As for Nov, 30 launch date of the next release, this should contain
                                              the latest BDB design, including the park data.

                                              Tom

                                              > > ==========================
                                              > > PRIORITY 1 - Handle ASAP
                                              > > Type:
                                              > > (1) any item that contains errors in data
                                              > > (2) data that existed, and is now missing
                                              > > ==========================
                                              > > ==========================
                                              > > PRIORITY 2 - Handle Very Very Soon
                                              > > Type:
                                              > > (1) Organizational, procedural items for handling BDB
                                              > > ==========================
                                              > > ==========================
                                              > > PRIORITY 3 - Handle Very Soon
                                              > > Type:
                                              > > (1) Primary Tables
                                              > > ==========================
                                              > > ==========================
                                              > > PRIORITY 4 - Handle Soon
                                              > > Type:
                                              > > (1) Design Issues, normalization, keys
                                              > > (2) XREF to other databases
                                              > > (3) Standards
                                              > > ==========================
                                              > > ==========================
                                              > > PRIORITY 5 - Handle At Some point
                                              > > Type:
                                              > > (1) Cool add-ons
                                              > > (2) Secondary (tertiary?) data/tables
                                              > > ==========================
                                              > > ==========================
                                              > > PRIORITY 6 - Unknown
                                              > > ==========================
                                            • tjruane
                                              Did we ever resolve if the baseball-databank data was going to contain games played information? Right now, there s no way from the 2004 data that was
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Nov 17, 2004
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                                                Did we ever resolve if the baseball-databank data was going to
                                                contain games played information? Right now, there's no way from
                                                the 2004 data that was recently posted to determine how many
                                                games many AL pitchers actually appeared in. I know we discussed
                                                this before, but this is a pretty basic piece of information to
                                                be missing, and I can't believe that the resolution was to keep
                                                the batting tables the way they are. At one point someone
                                                suggestion having an additional table to contain this single
                                                piece of information, but this seems like a particularly inelegant
                                                solution to this problem, especially when a much better and much
                                                more obvious solution (use the games field in the batting table for
                                                this) exists.

                                                Tom Ruane
                                              • Sean Lahman
                                                I think I understand the concern. It is that pitchers are not credited with a game played in the batting table if they appeared in a game where the
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Nov 17, 2004
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                                                  I think I understand the concern. It is that pitchers are not credited with
                                                  a game played in the batting table if they appeared in a game where the
                                                  designated-hitter was in effect. In most cases, this isn't a problem
                                                  because if a pitcher only appeared in games as a pitcher, the fielding table
                                                  and the pitching table give a full and accurate report. The problem (I
                                                  believe) comes when an American League pitcher made appearances as a
                                                  pinch-hitter or pinch-runner.

                                                  What solution are you proposing, Tom? Is it that the batting table would
                                                  credit an AL pitcher for a game played if the DH was in effect? So then, a
                                                  pitcher who pinch hit in 2 games would have 30 games in the pitching table
                                                  and 32 in the batting table? (whereas now we show him with 30 in pitching
                                                  and 2 in batting).

                                                  If this is the case, can you update the batting table for the DH-era
                                                  pitchers?

                                                  Regards,
                                                  Sean Lahman



                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > From: tjruane [mailto:truane@...]
                                                  > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 3:36 PM
                                                  > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Subject: [baseball-databank] Games Played
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Did we ever resolve if the baseball-databank data was going to
                                                  > contain games played information? Right now, there's no way from
                                                  > the 2004 data that was recently posted to determine how many
                                                  > games many AL pitchers actually appeared in. I know we discussed
                                                  > this before, but this is a pretty basic piece of information to
                                                  > be missing, and I can't believe that the resolution was to keep
                                                  > the batting tables the way they are. At one point someone
                                                  > suggestion having an additional table to contain this single
                                                  > piece of information, but this seems like a particularly inelegant
                                                  > solution to this problem, especially when a much better and much
                                                  > more obvious solution (use the games field in the batting table for
                                                  > this) exists.
                                                  >
                                                  > Tom Ruane
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > http://www.baseball-databank.org/
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • Tangotiger
                                                  I believe we said that the official league stats actually uses the G field in the batting record to denote all games played, regardless of whether the player
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Nov 17, 2004
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                                                    I believe we said that the official league stats
                                                    actually uses the "G" field in the batting record to
                                                    denote all games played, regardless of whether the
                                                    player ever batted.

                                                    My preferred solution is to have an APPEARANCES table,
                                                    where you'd have things like: Start, Pinch Hit, Pinch
                                                    Run, Field Sub. If we remember, the objective for the
                                                    BDB (eventually) is for it to be a DB geared for a DB
                                                    developer. That DB developer would generate a DB for
                                                    the user that he'd like to see, most notably, having
                                                    the "G" the way everyone is used to.

                                                    Tom


                                                    --- tjruane <truane@...> wrote:

                                                    >
                                                    > Did we ever resolve if the baseball-databank data
                                                    > was going to
                                                    > contain games played information? Right now,
                                                    > there's no way from
                                                    > the 2004 data that was recently posted to determine
                                                    > how many
                                                    > games many AL pitchers actually appeared in. I know
                                                    > we discussed
                                                    > this before, but this is a pretty basic piece of
                                                    > information to
                                                    > be missing, and I can't believe that the resolution
                                                    > was to keep
                                                    > the batting tables the way they are. At one point
                                                    > someone
                                                    > suggestion having an additional table to contain
                                                    > this single
                                                    > piece of information, but this seems like a
                                                    > particularly inelegant
                                                    > solution to this problem, especially when a much
                                                    > better and much
                                                    > more obvious solution (use the games field in the
                                                    > batting table for
                                                    > this) exists.
                                                    >
                                                    > Tom Ruane
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >




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                                                  • Sean Forman
                                                    ... What do we need to get this table set up? -- Sincerely, Sean Forman Baseball Stats! http://www.Baseball-Reference.com/
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Nov 17, 2004
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                                                      Tangotiger wrote:
                                                      > I believe we said that the official league stats
                                                      > actually uses the "G" field in the batting record to
                                                      > denote all games played, regardless of whether the
                                                      > player ever batted.
                                                      >
                                                      > My preferred solution is to have an APPEARANCES table,
                                                      > where you'd have things like: Start, Pinch Hit, Pinch
                                                      > Run, Field Sub. If we remember, the objective for the
                                                      > BDB (eventually) is for it to be a DB geared for a DB
                                                      > developer. That DB developer would generate a DB for
                                                      > the user that he'd like to see, most notably, having
                                                      > the "G" the way everyone is used to.
                                                      >
                                                      > Tom


                                                      What do we need to get this table set up?

                                                      --
                                                      Sincerely,
                                                      Sean Forman

                                                      Baseball Stats! http://www.Baseball-Reference.com/
                                                    • Tangotiger
                                                      ... Let me go through the archives (tomorrow), as I seem to remember several good suggestions by the members here. I can write a script that can generate the
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Nov 17, 2004
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                                                        --- Sean Forman <sean-forman@...>
                                                        wrote:

                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > What do we need to get this table set up?
                                                        >
                                                        > --

                                                        Let me go through the archives (tomorrow), as I seem
                                                        to remember several good suggestions by the members
                                                        here. I can write a script that can generate the
                                                        APPEARNCES table. I'll have to also look for Michael
                                                        Mavrogiannis' notes on the matter, regarding the
                                                        differing use of "G" pre/post 1996, and probably
                                                        necessitating multiple scripts.

                                                        Tom




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                                                      • tjruane
                                                        ... Exactly. If you want to include a field indicating how many times a player actually appeared in the lineup (as opposed to appearing in the game), I would
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Nov 18, 2004
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                                                          Sean Lahman wrote:

                                                          > What solution are you proposing, Tom? Is it that the batting
                                                          > table would credit an AL pitcher for a game played if the DH
                                                          > was in effect? So then, a pitcher who pinch hit in 2 games
                                                          > would have 30 games in the pitching table and 32 in the batting
                                                          > table? (whereas now we show him with 30 in pitching and 2 in
                                                          > batting).

                                                          Exactly. If you want to include a field indicating how many
                                                          times a player actually appeared in the lineup (as opposed to
                                                          appearing in the game), I would suggest adding an additional
                                                          field for it. The games field in the batting table should
                                                          always equal the number of games played.

                                                          > If this is the case, can you update the batting table for the
                                                          > DH-era pitchers?

                                                          Last May I posted this data to the files section of the group.
                                                          It's in the "games" field of the ofdata.txt file (within the
                                                          newdat.zip file posting May 10th. I don't have the 2004 data
                                                          yet (actually, I had been hoping to get it from you :-)), but
                                                          I should have the 2004 event files shortly and can generate it
                                                          then.

                                                          Thanks.
                                                          Tom Ruane
                                                        • Sean Lahman
                                                          Thanks, Tom. Let me take a look at the file you posted, but I think I should be able to provide the 2004 data. Regards, Sean Lahman
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Nov 18, 2004
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                                                            Thanks, Tom. Let me take a look at the file you posted, but I think I
                                                            should be able to provide the 2004 data.

                                                            Regards,
                                                            Sean Lahman

                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                            > From: tjruane [mailto:truane@...]
                                                            > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 9:16 AM
                                                            > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
                                                            > Subject: [baseball-databank] Re: Games Played
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Sean Lahman wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > > What solution are you proposing, Tom? Is it that the batting
                                                            > > table would credit an AL pitcher for a game played if the DH
                                                            > > was in effect? So then, a pitcher who pinch hit in 2 games
                                                            > > would have 30 games in the pitching table and 32 in the batting
                                                            > > table? (whereas now we show him with 30 in pitching and 2 in
                                                            > > batting).
                                                            >
                                                            > Exactly. If you want to include a field indicating how many
                                                            > times a player actually appeared in the lineup (as opposed to
                                                            > appearing in the game), I would suggest adding an additional
                                                            > field for it. The games field in the batting table should
                                                            > always equal the number of games played.
                                                            >
                                                            > > If this is the case, can you update the batting table for the
                                                            > > DH-era pitchers?
                                                            >
                                                            > Last May I posted this data to the files section of the group.
                                                            > It's in the "games" field of the ofdata.txt file (within the
                                                            > newdat.zip file posting May 10th. I don't have the 2004 data
                                                            > yet (actually, I had been hoping to get it from you :-)), but
                                                            > I should have the 2004 event files shortly and can generate it
                                                            > then.
                                                            >
                                                            > Thanks.
                                                            > Tom Ruane
                                                            >
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