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  • Paul Wendt
    9 Dec 2002, Re: LEAGUES table - create , ... Yes. I suppose that that usage is portable. ... I wonder the capacity of Access and MySQL should govern this, or
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 9, 2002
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      9 Dec 2002, "Re: LEAGUES table - create",
      tangotiger <tmasc@...> wrote:

      > You *can* use commas inside the text, as long as the entire field is
      > wrapped in double-quotes.

      Yes. I suppose that that usage is portable.

      > We are not limited to 255 characters, as Access has a "memo" field (I
      > think it's 4000 chars). However, I've never tried to create this
      > field through SQL, but I'll see if I can.

      I wonder the capacity of Access and MySQL should govern this, or whether
      there are more important practical considerations. My thought was that
      there may now or soon be a bbdb maximum by policy.

      --Paul
    • Paul Wendt
      ... In Expand Messages mode, the space character is displayed, so material such as this is aligned. ... The alternative style is to plan ahead. Then there
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 9, 2002
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        9 Dec 2002, tangotiger <tmasc@...> wrote:

        > With yahoo groups formatting, it's tough to read some of the stuff.

        In "Expand Messages" mode, the space character is displayed, so material
        such as this is aligned.
        >>
        The alternative style is to plan ahead. Then there should be a league
        status data somewhere. What does that mean in practice? Perhaps this:
        LeagueTable
        ID Start End Name Comment
        FL 1913 1915 blahblah yadayada

        StatusTable
        ID Date Status
        FL 1913 No
        FL 1914 Yes(major)
        FL 1915 Yes(major)
        <<

        Those tables are only ilustrative fragments, not complete tables.

        There is another reason to "Expand Messages": get 15 (default) in
        succession without intervening telecommunications.

        > Can you upload in the files section (or e-mail me and I'll post it), a
        > csv version of the fieldnames and the data as you've presented them
        > for the Leagues table?

        (There is a "Franchise" folder because I created it, planning to collect
        the five "Files" concerning Teams,etc. Only the owner may do that,
        presumably because the method of filing is to move into subdirectories and
        thus change URLs. So I'll delete the folder.)

        Recently I submitted one spelling correction (Players' League, not
        Player's League) and I provided alternatives to KJOK's Comment for
        some leagues. For now, let me reproduce those; there is something
        to discuss, as no level of detail has been endorsed.

        [to be continued]

        -- P/\/ \/\/t

        Paul Wendt, Watertown MA, USA <pgw@...>
      • tmasc@yahoo.com
        ... Ahhh, that makes more sense. Ok, so we are talking about a parent league table, and then one or more children tables. And these children tables might
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 9, 2002
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          --- Paul Wendt <pgw@...> wrote:
          > LeagueTable
          > ID Start End Name Comment
          > FL 1913 1915 blahblah yadayada
          >
          > StatusTable
          > ID Date Status
          > FL 1913 No
          > FL 1914 Yes(major)
          > FL 1915 Yes(major)

          Ahhh, that makes more sense. Ok, so we are talking
          about a parent league table, and then one or more
          children tables. And these children tables might have
          effective dates. From that standpoint then, the
          "start"/"end" would disappear from Leagues Tables and
          exist only in LeagueStatus Table. In fact, if the
          "name" of the league can also change, then this too
          should go into a child table. So, we'll have
          something like

          League Table
          ------------
          ID, Comment
          - with ID being the key

          LeagueStatus
          ------------
          ID, Year, Status, Level, Comments
          - with ID, Year being the key
          - year is the effective date of the status/level
          - status is as Paul described (Maj, Min, Jap, folded,
          etc, etc)
          - maybe level to distinguish AAA, AA, and other
          designations
          - we may want to discuss this more, with perhaps Paul
          and KJOK chiming in more, as to the various
          incarnations that a league can go through, and if
          these two fields are enough to satisfy it all

          LeagueName Table
          -----------------
          ID, Year, ShortName, LongName, Comments

          Note: I know it looks like overkill, but better to
          worry about it now, than later. After all the
          discussions have been done, we can decide that we
          might collapse the various tables into 1 or 2, or we
          might bring back those redundant date fields. But
          that should be a decision at the end, and not at the
          beginning.

          Good job, Paul!

          Thanks, Tom






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        • Paul Wendt
          ... DO you mean the Expand Messages view at yahoogroups ;-) ... Yes. I agree tmasc s elaboration of my line of thinking (deleted). On the other hand, what
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 9, 2002
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            On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, tmasc@... wrote:

            > --- Paul Wendt <pgw@...> wrote:
            > > LeagueTable
            > > ID Start End Name Comment
            > > FL 1913 1915 blahblah yadayada
            > >
            > > StatusTable
            > > ID Date Status
            > > FL 1913 No
            > > FL 1914 Yes(major)
            > > FL 1915 Yes(major)
            >
            > Ahhh, that makes more sense.
            DO you mean the "Expand Messages" view at yahoogroups ;-)

            > Ok, so we are talking about a parent league table, and then one or
            > more children tables. And these children tables might have effective
            > dates. From that standpoint then, the "start"/"end" would disappear
            > from Leagues Tables and exist only in LeagueStatus Table. In fact, if
            > the "name" of the league can also change, then this too should go into
            > a child table.

            Yes. I agree tmasc's elaboration of my line of thinking (deleted).
            On the other hand, what is practical now, before the database is populated
            with minor leagues, much less minor league players?

            Recall that exploring major league ballclub continuity is historical work.
            There have been controversies; there is yet no consensus on some points.
            "Reorganization" lives in the Business Section of the newspaper (sometimes
            the main section). Ipso facto, "reorganization" breaks the continuity of
            an organization and suggests the question, how much break? For the many
            minor leagues, not to mention teams, whoa!

            > Note: I know it looks like overkill, but better to worry about it now,
            > than later. After all the discussions have been done, we can decide
            > that we might collapse the various tables into 1 or 2, or we might
            > bring back those redundant date fields. But that should be a decision
            > at the end, and not at the beginning.

            I don't have the experience to weigh the practical points, only to mention
            some of them.

            Another one of them is that expertise is thin or beyond my ken (eg, in the
            Minor League Committee, SABR, or in the fledgling Museum of Minor League
            Baseball, Memphis).

            Was the AL a new league in 1901, a new league in 1900, or neither
            (merely the 1899 Western League with a name change, then a status change).

            Next month, I will survey 19th century people in SABR concerning their
            interests and expertise. This month, perhaps, I should gather some
            "seeds" --some example interests/expertise that are not only illustrative
            (clarify the survey) but also especially valuable.

            That's all for today.

            -- P/\/ \/\/t

            Paul Wendt, Watertown MA, USA <pgw@...>
            Chair, 19th Century Committee, SABR
          • kjokbaseball <kjokbaseball@yahoo.com>
            Having Parent & children league tables makes a lot of sense to me. I don t know how detailed we want to get in the future, but with the children table you
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 9, 2002
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              Having Parent & children league tables makes a lot of sense to me. I
              don't know how detailed we want to get in the future, but with
              the "children" table you can start putting info in such as League
              President that year, beginning and ending season dates, etc.

              THANKS,
              KJOK

              --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "tmasc@y..." <tmasc@y...>
              wrote:
              > --- Paul Wendt <pgw@w...> wrote:
              > > LeagueTable
              > > ID Start End Name Comment
              > > FL 1913 1915 blahblah yadayada
              > >
              > > StatusTable
              > > ID Date Status
              > > FL 1913 No
              > > FL 1914 Yes(major)
              > > FL 1915 Yes(major)
              >
              > Ahhh, that makes more sense. Ok, so we are talking
              > about a parent league table, and then one or more
              > children tables. And these children tables might have
              > effective dates. From that standpoint then, the
              > "start"/"end" would disappear from Leagues Tables and
              > exist only in LeagueStatus Table. In fact, if the
              > "name" of the league can also change, then this too
              > should go into a child table. So, we'll have
              > something like
              >
              > League Table
              > ------------
              > ID, Comment
              > - with ID being the key
              >
              > LeagueStatus
              > ------------
              > ID, Year, Status, Level, Comments
              > - with ID, Year being the key
              > - year is the effective date of the status/level
              > - status is as Paul described (Maj, Min, Jap, folded,
              > etc, etc)
              > - maybe level to distinguish AAA, AA, and other
              > designations
              > - we may want to discuss this more, with perhaps Paul
              > and KJOK chiming in more, as to the various
              > incarnations that a league can go through, and if
              > these two fields are enough to satisfy it all
              >
              > LeagueName Table
              > -----------------
              > ID, Year, ShortName, LongName, Comments
              >
              > Note: I know it looks like overkill, but better to
              > worry about it now, than later. After all the
              > discussions have been done, we can decide that we
              > might collapse the various tables into 1 or 2, or we
              > might bring back those redundant date fields. But
              > that should be a decision at the end, and not at the
              > beginning.
              >
              > Good job, Paul!
              >
              > Thanks, Tom
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • tmasc@yahoo.com
              ... Which reminds me, that some leagues (like AL and NL) also form an umbrella league called MLB. We d need something like UmbrellaLeague Table ULid MLB WCL
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 9, 2002
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                --- "kjokbaseball <kjokbaseball@...>"
                <kjokbaseball@...> wrote:
                > League
                > President that year, beginning and ending season
                > dates, etc.
                >

                Which reminds me, that some leagues (like AL and NL)
                also form an umbrella league called MLB.

                We'd need something like

                UmbrellaLeague Table
                ULid
                MLB
                WCL
                ECL
                PCL
                JAP

                for example, followed by

                UmbrellaLeagueStatus Table
                ULid, Date, PresidentID, Comments
                MLB, 1992, seligbu666, Pass

                UmbrellaLeagueXREF Table
                ULid, LGid
                MLB, NL
                MLB, AL
                PCL, ....
                PCL, ....

                etc, etc

                This is valuable only if
                1 - we expand beyond MLB
                2 - we want to know about Bud Selig

                Until we actually get some non-MLB stats, we should
                probably keep this on the back-burner. But to second
                Paul's thoughts (I think), we should allow for our
                database to be easily expandable to support such
                things.

                Thanks, Tom

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              • Paul Wendt
                ... I agree with KJ s rationale for tmasc s applauding with my idea. If that isn t what happened then I agree, anyway. -- P/ / / /t Paul Wendt, Watertown MA,
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 9, 2002
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                  On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, kjokbaseball <kjokbaseball@...> wrote:

                  > Having Parent & children league tables makes a lot of sense to me.
                  > I don't know how detailed we want to get in the future, but with the
                  > "children" table you can start putting info in such as League
                  > President that year, beginning and ending season dates, etc.
                  >
                  > THANKS,
                  > KJOK

                  I agree with KJ's rationale for tmasc's applauding with my idea.
                  If that isn't what happened then I agree, anyway.

                  -- P/\/ \/\/t

                  Paul Wendt, Watertown MA, USA <pgw@...>
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