562Re: [baseball-databank] DEFINITION - team IDs and ballclub IDs
- Jul 4, 2002On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, Sean Forman wrote:
> tangotiger wrote:Yes, for the major leagues.
> > Let's continue on the discussion of team IDs and ballclub IDs.
> > For those late in the game, a ballclub id (or franchise id or
> > continuity id) is an id that refers to the same ballclub, regardless
> > of where they play. For example, the Angels from 1961 to today have
> > the same ballclub id (whatever its actual id is), whether they are
> > the LA Angels, California Angels or Anaheim Angels. Same thing with
> > teams moving from NY to LA or SF, etc.
> > I believe that Paul, KJOK, and Sean F were able to agree on every
> > ballclub, post-1900.
> The ballclub ID's are pretty solid.
New discoveries or interpretations are comparable to those for player
identities, as when Fred King and Greg Smith, are discovered to be one, or
when Fred King is discovered to be two.
I mean "comparable" in at least two respects.
- momentous. Don't hide such a discovery. Get your name on page one of a
SABR Research Committee newsletter.
- exceptional. The data-gatherers and -distributors (that's us) must
incorporate such discoveries, but planning how to incorporate is separate
from planning the database design. Or so it seems to me. Sean?
For the major league ballclubs, even in the 19th century, the issues
will be how to use ballclub IDs to cover activities when the club did
not field a major league team.
Example: Chicago White Stockings NA1872-73, fielded no team for two years
in aftermath of the Chicago Fire.
There are similar examples in independent baseball today, I believe.
Example: Chicago White Stockings AL1900, one of at least four ballclubs
that fielded teams in that league and also in the major league AL1901.
The most recent examples are FL1913-FL1914: fielded a minor league team
one year and a major league team the next.
In the 19th century, there are some reverse examples. According to Greg
Rhodes, author of Redleg Journal, the 1876-1880 Cinci NL ballclub fielded
a semipro(?) team in 1881. This case is not yet clear to me. According
to Frank Phelps, "Oliver Perry Caylor", _Baseball's First Stars_, SABR
1995, the 1882- Cinci AA ballclub was founded in 1881 by Caylor, who
"nurtured" the team during that year.
For now, there is no data in the databank concerning the years when these
ballclubs did not field major league teams, unless there is data on the
nickname and management of the Arizona Diamond backs and other recent
expansion clubs before they fielded teams.
I suppose that AL1900 will be one of the first minor league-seasons whose
rosters and maybe playing statistics will be included. Perhaps it will be
the first "historical" minor league-season, from earlier than 1990 or so.
-- P/\/ \/\/t
Paul Wendt, Watertown MA, USA <pgw@...>
Chair, 19th Century Committee, SABR
Owner-Administrator, 19cBB (egroup at Yahoo)
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