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548Re: DEFINITION - team IDs and ballclub IDs

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  • tangotiger
    Jul 1 1:14 PM
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      Exactly my opinion. The only thing I would say is to REMOVE the
      league information from the team table.

      Or, if you decide to keep the league in the team table, then if a
      team like Milwaukee will go from AL to NL to AL, then it should not
      have 3 ids, but 2.

      The ballclub table should have
      MBREW, MIL, AL
      MBREW, ML4, NL

      *************
      I think this "league" information is going to become important when
      venturing into adding minor league and jap league data. If we are
      going to say "minor league", then we should say "major league". If
      we are going to say ECL, PCL, and the ACTUAL leagues and not the
      umbrella, then we can say AL and NL. Personally, "league" should be
      the umbrella of level of competition (majors, minors, college, high
      school, japanese, Cuban, etc), and not the "sub-leagues" at the same
      level.

      Thanks, Tom


      --- In baseball-databank@y..., Sean Lahman <slahman@b...> wrote:
      > I think the answer to Tom's question on team IDs is pretty easy to
      answer.
      > The reason for having the team IDs is to link them to a table that
      contains
      > information about that team. If any of the info in that table
      changes, then
      > a new team ID needs to be issued. As of now, the Team Master table
      contains
      > league, city name, and team nickname. If they change leagues (e.g.,
      > Milwaukee Brewers), change city name (Anaheim Angels), or change
      their
      > nickname (Boston Pilgrims), then we need a new ID.
      >
      > --SL
      >
      > tangotiger wrote:
      >
      > > Let's continue on the discussion of team IDs and ballclub IDs.
      > >
      > > For those late in the game, a ballclub id (or franchise id or
      > > continuity id) is an id that refers to the same ballclub,
      regardless
      > > of where they play. For example, the Angels from 1961 to today
      have
      > > the same ballclub id (whatever its actual id is), whether they are
      > > the LA Angels, California Angels or Anaheim Angels. Same thing
      with
      > > teams moving from NY to LA or SF, etc.
      > >
      > > I believe that Paul, KJOK, and Sean F were able to agree on every
      > > ballclub, post-1900.
      > >
      > > Now, the question is what "team id" does each team get?
      > >
      > > For example, do you keep the same id or change it under the
      following
      > > conditions:
      > > 1 - The team decides to change its nickname, but continue playing
      in
      > > the same park
      > > 2 - The team decides to change its "city/state" name, but continue
      > > playing in the same park
      > > 3 - The team keeps the same name, but changes park within the same
      > > city
      > > 4 - The team keeps the same name, but changes park into another
      city
      > > altogether
      > > 5 - Team changes name, and changes park, but inside the same city
      > > 6 - The team changes name and change park into another city
      > > 7 - Team changes league
      > > 8 - Team changes division
      > >
      > > Not sure if there's anything else....
      > >
      > > >From my standpoint, I think it's easiest to give a new team id if
      > > there is a change only in team city name or team nickname,
      meaning in:
      > > 1,2,5,6
      > >
      > > After all, the "ballclub id" that we'll be introducing will have
      the
      > > continuity we need to determine "ballclub/franchise" records,
      while
      > > making the team id in any year very clear as to which team we are
      > > talking about.
      > >
      > > The team id should be unique on its own, so that if the Brooklyn
      > > Dodgers start operations next year, their team id will be
      different
      > > from that of 50 years ago.
      > >
      > > Thanks, Tom
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