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Ivanhoe of Mars

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  • thongor1 <crrut@earthlink.net>
    Personally I always wondered if Sir Walter Scott s Ivanhoe wasn t an inspiration for Burroughs in much of his fiction. It has many elements that show up again
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 3, 2003
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      Personally I always wondered if Sir Walter Scott's Ivanhoe wasn't an
      inspiration for Burroughs in much of his fiction. It has many
      elements that show up again and again in Mars, Pellucidar, etc. The
      confused love affairs, wild coincidences, hidden monarchs(or
      knights). The Porges ERB biography reports that he made 'a hasty
      rereading of Ivanhoe' before starting his second book after Princess
      of Mars. Just a thought..
    • JOSEPH GILBERT THOMPSON <mavericspacer200
      ... an ... The ... Princess ... I would not be surprised if ERB did not read Sir Walter Scott s Ivanhoe .Kipling s Jungle Book and that Gulllivar Novel.Any
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 5, 2003
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        --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "thongor1 <crrut@e...>" <crrut@e...>
        wrote:
        > Personally I always wondered if Sir Walter Scott's Ivanhoe wasn't
        an
        > inspiration for Burroughs in much of his fiction. It has many
        > elements that show up again and again in Mars, Pellucidar, etc.
        The
        > confused love affairs, wild coincidences, hidden monarchs(or
        > knights). The Porges ERB biography reports that he made 'a hasty
        > rereading of Ivanhoe' before starting his second book after
        Princess
        > of Mars. Just a thought..

        I would not be surprised if ERB did not read Sir Walter Scott's
        Ivanhoe .Kipling's Jungle Book and that Gulllivar Novel.Any writer
        who dosen't read other peoples books ain't our time reading
        either,so maybe-possibly..

        JGT.
      • JOSEPH GILBERT THOMPSON <mavericspacer200
        ... ... wasn t ... There is good evidence that Supermans creators was inspired by a combination of Lester Dent[Keneth Robeson] S Doc
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 5, 2003
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          --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "JOSEPH GILBERT THOMPSON
          <mavericspacer2003@y...>" <mavericspacer2003@y...> wrote:
          > --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "thongor1 <crrut@e...>"
          <crrut@e...>
          > wrote:
          > > Personally I always wondered if Sir Walter Scott's Ivanhoe
          wasn't
          > an
          > > inspiration for Burroughs in much of his fiction. It has many
          > > elements that show up again and again in Mars, Pellucidar, etc.
          > The
          > > confused love affairs, wild coincidences, hidden monarchs(or
          > > knights). The Porges ERB biography reports that he made 'a hasty
          > > rereading of Ivanhoe' before starting his second book after
          > Princess
          > > of Mars. Just a thought..
          >
          > I would not be surprised if ERB did not read Sir Walter Scott's
          > Ivanhoe .Kipling's Jungle Book and that Gulllivar Novel.Any writer
          > who dosen't read other peoples books ain't our time reading
          > either,so maybe-possibly..
          >
          > JGT.

          There is good evidence that Supermans creators was inspired by a
          combination of Lester Dent[Keneth Robeson]'S Doc Savage,Phillip
          Wylies Gladiator character Hugo Danner,Burrough's John Carter and
          Tarzan and one or two other things.Jerry Seigel or Joe Shuster or
          both,in a rescent Tarzan/Superman teaming story,claimed to have
          written REB on a possable John Carter comic strip,some years before
          creating the Man of Steel.So if Burroughs inspired these guys to
          create the famous comic hero,one does wonder what inspired Burroughs
          himself.Tarzan is his version of Mowghi as in Kipling's Jungle
          Book ,but with fantastic elemenys added.John Carter,is a better
          telling of Gullivar Jones-in my opinion anyway,as you might remember
          from other places and other e-mails before.Carson Napier,certainly
          is Burroughs own reverse creating of John Carter.Could Sir Walter
          Scott's Ivanhoe be a sourse also for Carson of Venus? Possable-only
          ERB knew that truth,we can only wonder and speculate on the
          subject.Clear Burroughs was a fan of Jules Verne,Sir Arthor Conan
          Doyle and Wells,and tried his own variation on The Lost World.War
          of the Worlds,Journey to the Center of the Earth and other simular
          type tales sort of.And on an interesting note,I once talked Roy
          Thomas,as you may know has comic history with Conan,that Robert
          E.Howard,read Tarzan,but made his hero a tougher,Western type
          hero,with a sword,in a Forgotten Age.when working on Conan.One
          wonders .too-if David Innes and the savage world of Pellucidar might
          had some influence also.Are dates before or after Conans debute or
          are both work just simular creations?

          You will note I call Conan a Western,even it dosen't feature six
          guns or contain much Western gimmicks,Conan is pretty a Sort of
          thrown back Clint Eatwood type hero.Instead of the Wild West,as REH
          sort of knew,with Texas origins,Conan was the long Western
          hero,living another era and using the top weapons of his age-
          swords.And since Howard wrote Westerns,I am pretty sure,if he
          lived,he would have tried to put Conan on a horse and try his hand
          at a Weird Western tale.

          JGT.
        • jhuckenp@aol.com
          In a message dated 2/6/03 7:43:53 AM, mavericspacer2003@yahoo.com writes:
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 6, 2003
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            In a message dated 2/6/03 7:43:53 AM, mavericspacer2003@... writes:

            << Are dates before or after Conans debute or are both work just simular
            creations? >>

            The first Conan story, "The Phoenix on the Sword", was published in WEIRD
            TALES, Dec. 1932. At that time 16 of the 26 Tarzan books and 7 of the 11
            Mars books had already seen print. Of course, Conan was a refinement of the
            type of hero Howard had already created in Kull, Bran Mak Morn, Solomon Kane,
            &c., some of which had appeared as early as the mid-20's.

            << You will note I call Conan a Western, even it dosen't feature six guns or
            contain much Western gimmicks, Conan is pretty a Sort of thrown back Clint
            Eatwood type hero.Instead of the Wild West, as REH sort of knew, with Texas
            origins, Conan was the long Western hero, living another era and using the
            top weapons of his age-
            swords. And since Howard wrote Westerns,I am pretty sure, if he
            lived, he would have tried to put Conan on a horse and try his hand
            at a Weird Western tale. >>

            Howard wrote plenty of weird Westerns. "Pigeons from Hell" and "Old
            Grimlan's Heart" are among his best.

            AQPorter
          • jhuckenp@aol.com
            In a message dated 2/6/03 7:43:53 AM, mavericspacer2003@yahoo.com writes:
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 6, 2003
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              In a message dated 2/6/03 7:43:53 AM, mavericspacer2003@... writes:

              << You will note I call Conan a Western,even it dosen't feature six
              guns or contain much Western gimmicks,Conan is pretty a Sort of
              thrown back Clint Eatwood type hero. >>

              P. S. -- Lovecraft didn't call him "Two-gun Bob" for nothing.

              AQPorter
            • Mark E. Hall
              ... Check the THE DARK BARBARIAN edited by Don Herron. Herron and another writer whose name eludes me right now note that Beyond the Black River is a
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 6, 2003
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                > << You will note I call Conan a Western, even it dosen't
                > feature six guns or
                > contain much Western gimmicks, Conan is pretty a Sort of
                > thrown back Clint
                > Eatwood type hero.Instead of the Wild West, as REH sort of
                > knew, with Texas
                > origins, Conan was the long Western hero, living another era
                > and using the
                > top weapons of his age-
                > swords.

                Check the THE DARK BARBARIAN edited by Don Herron. Herron and another
                writer whose name eludes me right now note that "Beyond the Black River"
                is a western set in a fantasy world. Instead of Indians, you have
                Picts.

                And since Howard wrote Westerns,I am pretty sure, if he
                > lived, he would have tried to put Conan on a horse and try his hand
                > at a Weird Western tale. >>
                >
                > Howard wrote plenty of weird Westerns. "Pigeons from Hell" and "Old
                > Grimlan's Heart" are among his best.

                Not only that, there are works like the VULTURES OF WHAPETON and the
                Breckenridge Elkin cycle of tales.

                Best, MEH


                >
                > AQPorter
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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              • Mark E. Hall
                ... Actaully wasn t it E. Hoffman price who dubbed him that? Best, MEH
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 6, 2003
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                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: jhuckenp@... [mailto:jhuckenp@...]
                  > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:32 PM
                  > To: barsoom@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [barsoom] Re: Ivanhoe of Mars
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > In a message dated 2/6/03 7:43:53 AM,
                  > mavericspacer2003@... writes:
                  >
                  > << You will note I call Conan a Western,even it dosen't feature six
                  > guns or contain much Western gimmicks,Conan is pretty a Sort of
                  > thrown back Clint Eatwood type hero. >>
                  >
                  > P. S. -- Lovecraft didn't call him "Two-gun Bob" for nothing.
                  >
                  > AQPorter

                  Actaully wasn't it E. Hoffman price who dubbed him that?

                  Best, MEH


                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Steve Wadding
                  At 06:43 AM 2/6/03 +0000, JOSEPH GILBERT THOMPSON ... That is particularly interesting since the original Superman could not fly, but was able to leap tall
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 6, 2003
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                    At 06:43 AM 2/6/03 +0000, JOSEPH GILBERT THOMPSON
                    <mavericspacer2003@...> wrote:
                    >Jerry Seigel or Joe Shuster or
                    >both,in a rescent Tarzan/Superman teaming story,claimed to have
                    >written REB on a possable John Carter comic strip,some years before
                    >creating the Man of Steel.So if Burroughs inspired these guys to
                    >create the famous comic hero,one does wonder what inspired Burroughs
                    >himself.

                    That is particularly interesting since the original Superman could not fly,
                    but was able to "leap tall buildings in a single bound." Just as John
                    Carter leapt in the Barsoom books.

                    Ghak
                  • thongor1 <crrut@earthlink.net>
                    And another essay in The Dark Barbarian compares REH s work to the hardboiled authors, particularly Dashiell Hammett.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 6, 2003
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                      And another essay in The Dark Barbarian compares REH's work to the
                      hardboiled authors, particularly Dashiell Hammett.
                    • jhuckenp@aol.com
                      In a message dated 2/6/03 9:30:58 AM, jhuckenp@aol.com writes: Sorry -- I was thinking
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 6, 2003
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                        In a message dated 2/6/03 9:30:58 AM, jhuckenp@... writes:

                        << "Pigeons from Hell" and "Old
                        Grimlan's Heart" are among his best. >>

                        Sorry -- I was thinking of two stories at once: "Old Garfield's Heart" and
                        "John Grimlan's Debt" -- both excellent.

                        AQPorter
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