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Re: [barsoom] The Atmosphere Plant

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  • jhuckenp@aol.com
    ... I think we can safely say that it s within the quadrilateral formed by Greater Helium, Zodanga, Thark, and Warhoon. Say, 150º E. to 150º W., and
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 28, 2006
      In a message dated 28/2/06 17:17:02, dgvaldron@... writes:

      > Someone's going to go and have to look up whatever
      > geographical cues there are.  My impression is that it
      > was somewhere in the neighborhood of Helium/Zodanga,
      > definitely southern hemisphere.
      >
      I think we can safely say that it's within the quadrilateral formed by
      Greater Helium, Zodanga, Thark, and Warhoon. Say, 150º E. to 150º W., and between
      the equator and 60º S. That covers about 1/18 of the total area of the
      planet...

      AQPorter


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Francis D. A. P Tiffany
      Dear All, Perhaps an averaged position? Francis
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 1, 2006
        Dear All,

        Perhaps an averaged position?

        Francis

        On 1 Mar 2006, at 07:06, jhuckenp@... wrote:

        > In a message dated 28/2/06 16:15:08, friendlypuffin@... writes:

        > ERB didn't say.
        > Robert H. Schlutter's 1949 map places it at approximately 11º S.,
        > 152º E.
        > Heins puts it at 34º S., 175º W.
        > Frank Brueckel's map shows it at 32ºS., 165º E.
        > Larry Ivie places it at 23º S., 138º E.
        > On Mike Resnick's map it's at 34º S., 172º E.
        > I had it at 38º S., 162º W. on my 1967 map.
        > Both of John Roy's maps show it at about 44º S., 152º W.
        > The map from the "John Carter of Mars" board game shows it at 56º
        > S., 150 W.
        > Tracy Griffin puts it near 40º S., 154º E.
        > Joe Ferrier shows it at 44º S., 152º W.
        >
        > I don't see it marked on any of the other maps. So take your pick.
      • datelinejasoom
        ... That s why I love fan fiction. It s just cool when people pick up on stuff like this and run with it. That s a ripe tidbit for fanfic. My suggestion would
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 1, 2006
          --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, Den Valdron <dgvaldron@...> wrote:

          > Which raises a thought... Maybe there was an original
          > effort to construct a northern hemisphere atmosphere
          > plant in the dying days, and it got taken over by Okar
          > and Panar for their domed cities?
          >

          That's why I love fan fiction. It's just cool when people pick up on
          stuff like this and run with it. That's a ripe tidbit for fanfic. My
          suggestion would be to frame the telling of that story by the
          adventures of Tardos Mors and Mors Kajak when they were searching for
          Dejah Thoris and got pulled in by the Guardian of the North. I always
          imagined they had quite an adventure before John Carter found them.

          Elmo
        • Saroda Mara
          ... OK. Even I can do averages (if I remembered my calculator... let s see... ah yes, here it is). First, for lattitude. 11º S. 34º S. 32º S. 23º S. 34º
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 1, 2006
            --- In barsoom, "Francis D. A. P Tiffany" wrote:

            > Dear All,
            >
            > Perhaps an averaged position?

            OK. Even I can do averages (if I remembered my calculator... let's
            see... ah yes, here it is).

            First, for lattitude.

            11º S.
            34º S.
            32º S.
            23º S.
            34º S.
            38º S.
            44º S.
            56º S.
            40º S.
            44º S.

            This averages out to 35.6º S. Seems reasonable.

            OK, now for longitude. Hhhmmmnn......
            Some of these are East and some are West. Um... count East as
            positve and West as negative? OK, let's try that.

            152º E.
            175º W.
            165º E.
            138º E.
            172º E.
            162º W.
            152º W.
            150º W.
            154º E.
            152º W.

            That gives us 1º E. EEP! That can't be right. Or can it? Er...
            let's try East as negative and West as positive, and see if that
            makes a difference.

            <whir whir hum hum p'tooey>

            What I figured. 1º W. This doesn't seem right either.

            Averaging JUST the East numbers gives us 156.2º E.
            Averaging JUST the West numbers gives us 158.2º W.

            Averaging ALL OF THEM, without regards to East or West, and counting
            everything as positive, gives us 157.2º but if that's East or West I
            can't say. In fact I'm stumped. Anybody else?
          • Francis D. A. P Tiffany
            Dear All, So, one ends up with a value of 35.6û latitude (which seems reasonable, as you say), and 157.2û for longitude - as opinions differ, one could pick
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 1, 2006
              Dear All,

              So, one ends up with a value of 35.6˚ latitude (which seems
              reasonable, as you say), and 157.2˚ for longitude - as opinions
              differ, one could pick East or West as one feels is right. However,
              both East and West values do seem suspiciously similar to me... just
              on opposite sides of the meridian. Might one be a sub-station?

              Francis

              On 1 Mar 2006, at 17:41, Saroda Mara wrote:

              > --- In barsoom, "Francis D. A. P Tiffany" wrote:
              >
              >> Dear All,
              >>
              >> Perhaps an averaged position?
              >
              > OK. Even I can do averages (if I remembered my calculator... let's
              > see... ah yes, here it is).
              >
              > First, for lattitude.
              >
              > 11º S.
              > 34º S.
              > 32º S.
              > 23º S.
              > 34º S.
              > 38º S.
              > 44º S.
              > 56º S.
              > 40º S.
              > 44º S.
              >
              > This averages out to 35.6º S. Seems reasonable.
              >
              > OK, now for longitude. Hhhmmmnn......
              > Some of these are East and some are West. Um... count East as
              > positve and West as negative? OK, let's try that.
              >
              > 152º E.
              > 175º W.
              > 165º E.
              > 138º E.
              > 172º E.
              > 162º W.
              > 152º W.
              > 150º W.
              > 154º E.
              > 152º W.
              >
              > That gives us 1º E. EEP! That can't be right. Or can it? Er...
              > let's try East as negative and West as positive, and see if that
              > makes a difference.
              >
              > <whir whir hum hum p'tooey>
              >
              > What I figured. 1º W. This doesn't seem right either.
              >
              > Averaging JUST the East numbers gives us 156.2º E.
              > Averaging JUST the West numbers gives us 158.2º W.
              >
              > Averaging ALL OF THEM, without regards to East or West, and counting
              > everything as positive, gives us 157.2º but if that's East or West I
              > can't say. In fact I'm stumped. Anybody else?
            • Rick Johnson
              So we re-read where JC was coming from and where he was going to when he stumbled across the plant to get the general area and use that as a base to fudge the
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 1, 2006
                So we re-read where JC was coming from and where he was going to when he stumbled across the plant to get the general area and use that as a base to fudge the numbers.

                As for a sub-station, it would have to be a solar collector only as it is clear that there was only one O2 generating bldg.

                Though one Fan-Fic story did comment that after that disaster, the Red Men built two or three additonal plants.
                This does not consider the smaller plants isolated around the world like Okar which has it's own plant and as Den pointed out, it would be simple to roof over a valley or asteroid crater and create a stable and isolated biosphere without creating additional air-making plants.




                Rick Johnson, PO Box 40451, Tucson, Az. 85717
                http://www.geocities.com/DesertHenge
                http://www.geocities.com/RikJohnson_ERB
                http://www.geocities.com/RikJohnson_RLJ


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              • Ghak
                ... They are all greater than 90 degrees on a scale that goes from 0 to 180 (in two directions). I think what you need to do is average the number of degrees
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 1, 2006
                  At 05:41 PM 3/1/2006 +0000, Saroda Mara wrote:
                  >OK, now for longitude. Hhhmmmnn......
                  >Some of these are East and some are West. Um... count East as
                  >positve and West as negative? OK, let's try that.
                  >
                  >152º E.
                  >175º W.
                  >165º E.
                  >138º E.
                  >172º E.
                  >162º W.
                  >152º W.
                  >150º W.
                  >154º E.
                  >152º W.

                  They are all greater than 90 degrees on a scale that goes from 0 to 180 (in
                  two directions). I think what you need to do is average the number of
                  degrees from 180, with positive for West and negative for East. (If you
                  stand on the 180 degree line, facing North, then 175 W is actually to the
                  East of you, which is to the right, and in standard math notation, the
                  positive numbers are to the right on a number line. The 175 W is then
                  converted to a positive 5.)

                  You get:
                  -28
                  5
                  -15
                  -42
                  -8
                  18
                  28
                  30
                  -26
                  28

                  This averages to -1, which is one degree from 180 (hence 179), and since we
                  have chosen East to be negative, the result translates to:

                  179 East.

                  Ghak
                • jhuckenp@aol.com
                  ... Convert to a 360º base. Then -- 152º E. 185º E. 165º E. 138º E. 172º E. 198º E. 208º E. 210º E. 154º E. 208º E. Average 182 or 36º S., 178º W.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 1, 2006
                    In a message dated 1/3/06 11:43:57, xenophile2002@... writes:

                    > In fact I'm stumped.  Anybody else?
                    >
                    Convert to a 360º base. Then --

                    152º E.
                    185º E.
                    165º E.
                    138º E.
                    172º E.
                    198º E.
                    208º E.
                    210º E.
                    154º E.
                    208º E.

                    Average 182 or 36º S., 178º W. Pretty close to the exact antipodes of Horz.
                    Coincidence?

                    AQPorter


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ghak
                    ... I just tried your method, and got an average of 179, making it 179 E, which matches my what I got with my less strait forward method of using degrees from
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 2, 2006
                      At 02:39 AM 3/2/2006 -0500, jhuckenp@... wrote:
                      >Convert to a 360º base. Then --
                      >
                      >152º E.
                      >185º E.
                      >165º E.
                      >138º E.
                      >172º E.
                      >198º E.
                      >208º E.
                      >210º E.
                      >154º E.
                      >208º E.
                      >
                      >Average 182 or 36º S., 178º W. Pretty close to the exact antipodes of Horz.
                      > Coincidence?

                      I just tried your method, and got an average of 179, making it 179 E, which
                      matches my what I got with my less strait forward method of using degrees
                      from the 180 line instead of from the 0 line.

                      Ghak
                    • friendlypuffin
                      ... antipodes of Horz. ... E, which ... degrees ... Got myself a nice 2nd hand copy of the Del Rey Princess of Mars in the post yesterday, and discovered that
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 8, 2006
                        --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, Ghak <svwadding@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > At 02:39 AM 3/2/2006 -0500, jhuckenp@... wrote:
                        > >Convert to a 360º base. Then --
                        > >
                        > >152º E.
                        > >185º E.
                        > >165º E.
                        > >138º E.
                        > >172º E.
                        > >198º E.
                        > >208º E.
                        > >210º E.
                        > >154º E.
                        > >208º E.
                        > >
                        > >Average 182 or 36º S., 178º W. Pretty close to the exact
                        antipodes of Horz.
                        > > Coincidence?
                        >
                        > I just tried your method, and got an average of 179, making it 179
                        E, which
                        > matches my what I got with my less strait forward method of using
                        degrees
                        > from the 180 line instead of from the 0 line.
                        >
                        > Ghak
                        >

                        Got myself a nice 2nd hand copy of the Del Rey Princess of Mars in
                        the post yesterday, and discovered that there are "five principal air
                        centers" as well as the atmosphere plant, and the air is pumped to
                        these places underground.

                        Maybe there is an "air center" at the atmosphere plant too, making
                        six, and then it could be there are 3 in each hemisphere, each 120
                        degrees apart, each set of 3 maybe offset by 60 degrees to maximise
                        coverage? And it sounds that if these are "principal" centers, then
                        maybe each has substations spreading the air around?

                        Going to have to get myself a copy of "Gods of Mars"
                      • Rick Johnson
                        One question I have is for all those people who placed the Atmosphere Plant on their maps. What is your reasoning for those locations? I didn t mark it on mine
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 8, 2006
                          One question I have is for all those people who placed the Atmosphere Plant on their maps.
                          What is your reasoning for those locations?

                          I didn't mark it on mine simply because I don't have a clue yet as to where it is placed until I re-read the part of PoM that describes JCs journey. Then I'll have an idea of a rough line (from where to where) to look.

                          Now, I would imagine that the additional release stations(?) would be fairly uniform around the world. After all, if they could build a world-wide waterway system, a few air pipes that stretch a dozen thousand miles each would be nothing.
                          But these would in addition to being of a uniform location ,would also be i nan area politically free. Like you wouldn't put one in the midle ot Torquas territory or in Downtown Ptarth.
                          So I'd also look at geographic features too.

                          Rick Johnson, PO Box 40451, Tucson, Az. 85717
                          http://www.geocities.com/DesertHenge
                          http://www.geocities.com/RikJohnson_ERB
                          http://www.geocities.com/RikJohnson_RLJ


                          Please note: message attached




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                        • ekman@lysator.liu.se
                          I never made a Barsoomian map myself, but you should be able to make a decent estimate of the atmosphere plant s location by looking at the number of days or
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 8, 2006
                            I never made a Barsoomian map myself, but you should be able to make a
                            decent estimate of the atmosphere plant's location by looking at the
                            number of days or zodes John Carter took to travel between it and Warhoon,
                            Zodanga and Helium. Rate of travel is described elsewhere in the series.
                            Travel on foot is specified in Thuvia and Heliumetic flier airspeed is
                            detailed in Fighting Man.

                            Fredrik
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