Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Use of "Kar"

Expand Messages
  • archangelofmars
    -Kar Komak, the virtual bowman of Lothar ( or Lo - Tur as you would have it) - Okar, the northern arctic kingdom - Torkar Bar (there s a good one!), Dwar of
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 14, 2005
      -Kar Komak, the virtual bowman of Lothar ( or Lo - Tur as you would
      have it)
      - Okar, the northern arctic kingdom
      - Torkar Bar (there's a good one!), Dwar of the Kaolian road.
      - Vas Kor (Kar?), Dusarian noble - TMOM
      "Kor" Names:
      -A-Kor, a prince of Manator
      -Kor-an, cavalryman of Gathol
      -Kor San, Jeddak of Duhor
      -Lakor, a Thern
    • Den Valdron
      Interesting. So... Except for Okar, the Kar designation always refers to a person. Familial lineage? Perhaps similar to the archaic scot/gaelic Mc or Mac
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 15, 2005
        Interesting. So... Except for Okar, the 'Kar'
        designation always refers to a person. Familial
        lineage? Perhaps similar to the archaic scot/gaelic
        Mc or Mac

        Note that with Kar Komak, we've got evidence of a
        very, very ancient naming tradition.

        Lo-Tur? Good one, I missed that altogether.

        Torkar Bar? Tor (high?) kar (son?) Bar (white
        tribe?) His name would translate as Prince.

        Thanks. I like it a lot.


        -Kar Komak, the virtual bowman of Lothar ( or Lo -
        Tur as you would
        have it)
        - Okar, the northern arctic kingdom
        - Torkar Bar (there's a good one!), Dwar of the
        Kaolian road.
        - Vas Kor (Kar?), Dusarian noble - TMOM
        "Kor" Names:
        -A-Kor, a prince of Manator
        -Kor-an, cavalryman of Gathol
        -Kor San, Jeddak of Duhor
        -Lakor, a Thern






        ---------------------------------
        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


        Visit your group "barsoom" on the web.

        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        barsoom-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        Terms of Service.


        ---------------------------------









        __________________________________________________________
        Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
      • Saroda Mara
        Kar Komak... From Lothar... Where Komal the banth is worshipped... Kar Komak... Komak... Komal...
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 15, 2005
          Kar Komak...

          From Lothar...

          Where Komal the banth is worshipped...

          Kar Komak...

          Komak...

          Komal...
        • Den Valdron
          ... Kar Komak... - Son of Komak? From Lothar... - Lo-Tur? Where Komal the banth is worshipped... - Perhaps Kom or Komal is an ancient root word for Banth? - In
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 15, 2005
            --- Saroda Mara <xenophile2002@...> wrote:


            ---------------------------------
            Kar Komak...

            - Son of Komak?

            From Lothar...

            - Lo-Tur?

            Where Komal the banth is worshipped...

            - Perhaps Kom or Komal is an ancient root word for
            Banth?

            - In which case, Kar Komak may translate to 'Son of
            the Lion'?

            Kar Komak...

            Komak...

            Komal...


            - Also, in terms of Pellucidar, Kline's Maza of the
            Moon, as well as Swordsman of Mars and Burroughs
            Swords of Mars suggest that the Orovars were at least
            for a time, a space travelling society.

            Thor in scandinavia? A variant of Tur, renamed as a
            storm god because of the thunder and lightning of the
            space travellers vehicles and weapons? Thor and
            Thorth also appear on Amtor.

            Scandinavia is in the north. So if the Orovars did
            get that far, they might have also found Pellucidar.

            So is Thuria in Pellucidar really just a coincidence?
            Or is it an indication of contact?


            ---------------------------------
            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


            Visit your group "barsoom" on the web.

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            barsoom-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            Terms of Service.


            ---------------------------------









            __________________________________________________________
            Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
          • Den Valdron
            The Turgan is the Barsoomian bible. Its name must translate to Book of Tur. Gan is therefore archaic barsoomian for book. Thus, Gantun Gur the assassin s
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 15, 2005
              The Turgan is the Barsoomian bible. Its name must
              translate to Book of Tur.

              Gan is therefore archaic barsoomian for book.

              Thus, 'Gantun Gur' the assassin's name may actually
              translate to Gan - Tun Gur(Tur?). Or book - ? -
              god?

              Holy Scribe?

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com
            • Saroda Mara
              ... Especially with personal names, words tend to distort. Thus somebody named Geofrey Goodman finds his name pronounced jefree gudmun. Also, people give
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 15, 2005
                --- In barsoom, Den Valdron wrote:

                > The Turgan is the Barsoomian bible. Its name must translate to Book
                > of Tur.
                >
                > Gan is therefore archaic barsoomian for book.
                >
                > Thus, 'Gantun Gur' the assassin's name may actually translate to
                > Gan - Tun Gur(Tur?). Or book - ? - god?
                >
                > Holy Scribe?

                Especially with personal names, words tend to distort. Thus somebody
                named Geofrey Goodman finds his name pronounced "jefree gudmun."
                Also, people give their kids names for all kinds of reasons. Gantun
                Gur's folks may have given the name hoping he would grow up to be
                devout, or they may have just liked the sound of it, or it could be
                his great uncle's name. Like if I have a dauter and name her "Diana"
                it could be because I want her to be in tune with nature, or because
                I'm into paganism and want her to have a not-so-Christian name, or my
                mother might be named Diana, or my wife might be, or I have always
                admired Princess Diana, or I just think that purple kitten on Sailor
                Moon is so darned cute! Names are a great sourse of words, but man,
                they skid all over the place.
              • Shawn Dueck
                It depends on what was in the Turgan and how it was applied. Gan may mean history law prophecy or just words or who knows what. -Shawn ... The Turgan
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 15, 2005
                  It depends on what was in the Turgan and how it was
                  applied. "Gan" may mean "history" "law" "prophecy" or
                  just "words" or who knows what.
                  -Shawn

                  --- Den Valdron <dgvaldron@...> wrote:


                  ---------------------------------

                  The Turgan is the Barsoomian bible. Its name must
                  translate to Book of Tur.

                  Gan is therefore archaic barsoomian for book.

                  Thus, 'Gantun Gur' the assassin's name may actually
                  translate to Gan - Tun Gur(Tur?). Or book - ? -
                  god?

                  Holy Scribe?

                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                  protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com


                  SPONSORED LINKS

                  Writing book
                  Writing a book
                  Writing child book
                  Book writing software
                  Writing a book report
                  Business writing book


                  ---------------------------------
                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                  Visit your group "barsoom" on the web.

                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  barsoom-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                  Terms of Service.


                  ---------------------------------




                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com
                • Den Valdron
                  Exactly! We can only make approximate guesses as to the meaning of words, by examining their descent and relationships. All your suggestions are quite valid.
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 15, 2005
                    Exactly! We can only make approximate guesses as to
                    the meaning of words, by examining their descent and
                    relationships. All your suggestions are quite valid.


                    --- Shawn Dueck <archangelofmars@...> wrote:


                    ---------------------------------
                    It depends on what was in the Turgan and how it was
                    applied. "Gan" may mean "history" "law" "prophecy" or
                    just "words" or who knows what.
                    -Shawn

                    --- Den Valdron <dgvaldron@...> wrote:


                    ---------------------------------

                    The Turgan is the Barsoomian bible. Its name must
                    translate to Book of Tur.

                    Gan is therefore archaic barsoomian for book.

                    Thus, 'Gantun Gur' the assassin's name may actually
                    translate to Gan - Tun Gur(Tur?). Or book - ? -
                    god?

                    Holy Scribe?

                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                    protection around
                    http://mail.yahoo.com


                    SPONSORED LINKS

                    Writing book
                    Writing a book
                    Writing child book
                    Book writing software
                    Writing a book report
                    Business writing book


                    ---------------------------------
                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                    Visit your group "barsoom" on the web.

                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    barsoom-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                    Terms of Service.


                    ---------------------------------




                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                    protection around
                    http://mail.yahoo.com


                    SPONSORED LINKS

                    Writing book
                    Writing a book
                    Writing child book
                    Book writing software
                    Writing a book report
                    Business writing book


                    ---------------------------------
                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                    Visit your group "barsoom" on the web.

                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    barsoom-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                    Terms of Service.


                    ---------------------------------









                    __________________________________________________________
                    Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
                  • Den Valdron
                    Ptarth P - Tur - Th ? Note that most of the cities and regions which seem to incorporate Tur into place names are dead cities or archaic regions.
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 15, 2005
                      Ptarth

                      P - Tur - Th ?

                      Note that most of the cities and regions which seem to
                      incorporate Tur into place names are dead cities or
                      archaic regions.

                      Interestingly, 'Hor' was still being used as a root
                      word for cities, for the founding of the modern
                      Barsoomian cities of Duhor and Amhor.

                      This indicates that the word 'Tur' is relatively
                      ancient, while 'Hor' is relatively young.

                      Also, deconstructing Barsoomian language in this way,
                      Carthoris becomes an elaborate Barsoomian pun.

                      phoneticially Kar-Tur-Iss, which produces three
                      simultaneous layers of meaning....

                      1) Kar (son) (of) Tur (god) (and) Iss (goddess) Big
                      Mojo indeed.

                      2) Also, Kar-Tur (Carter) he takes his father's
                      name, and to the extent that there's some trace of
                      heretical 'tur' worship implied, its neutralized by
                      invoking the feminine, Iss. Essentially, he is
                      Carter and Iss, the Earth hero united with the Martian
                      Goddess, whose avatar is obviously intended to be
                      Dejah.

                      3) And, he takes his mother's name, Kar (son of)
                      Thoris.



                      Anyway, that's it for me. I'm tapped out.




                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                    • Den Valdron
                      According to this Barsoomian language website. Bar stands for the numeral 8. Or twice Tor (Tur). This makes sense. If Tor (Tur) is a holy number, then
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 15, 2005
                        According to this Barsoomian language website.

                        Bar stands for the numeral 8. Or twice Tor (Tur).
                        This makes sense. If Tor (Tur) is a holy number, then
                        combinations or doublings of it should phonetically
                        refer back.

                        What do you figure that ancient Barsoom employed a
                        base 4/base 8 counting system?

                        Here's another root word: Vak, as in, Invak and
                        Onvak. What does it mean? Don't know.

                        Another possible root word. Kan. As in Kantos Kan.
                        Perhaps the equivalent of Bob Robertson.

                        Another possible? Dak, as in Jeddak (Jed-Dak) and
                        Dak Kova. Obviously, its a modifier of Jed
                        (Chieftain) making Jeddak (High Chieftain). So it may
                        be the contemporary Barsoomian replacement of the word
                        Tor.

                        At this point, we may be sledding into contemporary
                        Barsoomian and away from the ancient language.

                        I think that with more work, we could probably
                        identify both ancient and modern root phonemes. The
                        meaning of these phonemes or root words, is going to
                        get speculative at best...

                        Anyway, if anyone wants to pick up this ball and run
                        with it, or offer a few thoughts, go for it. I think
                        I've gone as far as I can...

                        __________________________________________________
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        http://mail.yahoo.com
                      • Den Valdron
                        According to this Barsoomian language website. Bar stands for the numeral 8. Or twice Tor (Tur). This makes sense. If Tor (Tur) is a holy number, then
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 15, 2005
                          According to this Barsoomian language website.

                          Bar stands for the numeral 8. Or twice Tor (Tur).
                          This makes sense. If Tor (Tur) is a holy number, then
                          combinations or doublings of it should phonetically
                          refer back.


                          doh! It also explains the derivation. Bar is a
                          multiple of Tur. Thus, Tur's followers would identify
                          themselves as 'Bar' or 'Far'






                          __________________________________________________________
                          Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
                        • Saroda Mara
                          ... Nice try, but I think you re pushing it. Though, now that I think about it, my explanation of the Dead World might... ... There s also a Thoar in
                          Message 12 of 29 , Sep 23, 2005
                            --- In barsoom, Den Valdron wrote:

                            > - Also, in terms of Pellucidar, Kline's Maza of the Moon, as well
                            > as Swordsman of Mars and Burroughs Swords of Mars suggest that the
                            > Orovars were at least for a time, a space travelling society.

                            Nice try, but I think you're pushing it. Though, now that I think
                            about it, my explanation of the Dead World might...

                            > Thor in scandinavia? A variant of Tur, renamed as a storm god
                            > because of the thunder and lightning of the space travellers
                            > vehicles and weapons? Thor and Thorth also appear on Amtor.

                            There's also a "Thoar" in _Tarzan at the Earth's Core_, but now
                            you're *really* pushing it.

                            > Scandinavia is in the north. So if the Orovars did get that far,
                            > they might have also found Pellucidar.

                            Actually, Vikings in Pellucidar seem almost likely to me.

                            > So is Thuria in Pellucidar really just a coincidence? Or is it an
                            > indication of contact?

                            Coincidence, probably. But that Dead World idea...


                            Xenophile (who is writing more on that story this very night)
                          • Den Valdron
                            Actually, a contemporary and imitator of Burroughs, Ralph Milne Farley, wrote a Pellucidar novel or two. Or something very similar to Pellucidar. Essentially,
                            Message 13 of 29 , Sep 23, 2005
                              Actually, a contemporary and imitator of Burroughs,
                              Ralph Milne Farley, wrote a Pellucidar novel or two.
                              Or something very similar to Pellucidar. Essentially,
                              he was working off the same crackpot book that
                              Burroughs was, and thus, his characters sail around
                              the pole into an Inner World where a lost tribe of
                              Vikings survives. The book was called "The Radio
                              Flyers" and there was a sequel "The Radio Gun
                              Runners."

                              Farley's best known for his "Radio Planet" series,
                              which featured a hero named Myles Cabot accidentally
                              transported or teleported to Venus. There he
                              encounters a race of six limbed black giants called
                              Formians and an oppressed human race, the Cupians.
                              Before you know it, in John Carter fashion, he leads a
                              revolt overthrowing the Formians, marrying the
                              Princess of the humans and having a baby with her

                              > Scandinavia is in the north. So if the Orovars did
                              get that far,
                              > they might have also found Pellucidar.

                              Actually, Vikings in Pellucidar seem almost likely to
                              me.

                              > So is Thuria in Pellucidar really just a
                              coincidence? Or is it an
                              > indication of contact?

                              Coincidence, probably. But that Dead World idea...


                              Xenophile (who is writing more on that story this very
                              night)




                              ---------------------------------
                              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                              Visit your group "barsoom" on the web.

                              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              barsoom-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                              Terms of Service.


                              ---------------------------------




                              __________________________________________________
                              Do You Yahoo!?
                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              http://mail.yahoo.com
                            • Saroda Mara
                              You ve got something coming up called Tharks in Space! Can t wait. Actually, I m looking forward to quite a few of them.
                              Message 14 of 29 , Sep 23, 2005
                                You've got something coming up called "Tharks in Space!" Can't wait.
                                Actually, I'm looking forward to quite a few of them.
                              • Den Valdron
                                Actually, Thark s in Space is probably going to be revised further, but I m fairly pleased with it. It s a companion piece to White Apes and Green Men (or
                                Message 15 of 29 , Sep 24, 2005
                                  Actually, Thark's in Space is probably going to be
                                  revised further, but I'm fairly pleased with it.

                                  It's a companion piece to 'White Apes and Green Men'
                                  (or Quirks and Tharks, haven't quite decided on the
                                  title.) I'm very pleased with that one.



                                  --- Saroda Mara <xenophile2002@...> wrote:


                                  ---------------------------------
                                  You've got something coming up called "Tharks in
                                  Space!" Can't wait.
                                  Actually, I'm looking forward to quite a few of them.





                                  ---------------------------------
                                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                                  Visit your group "barsoom" on the web.

                                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  barsoom-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                  Terms of Service.


                                  ---------------------------------




                                  __________________________________________________
                                  Do You Yahoo!?
                                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  http://mail.yahoo.com
                                • Den Valdron
                                  Although all known Pellucidar true humans speak the same language, there is at least one, perhaps a couple of other languages in current usage. I was rereading
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Sep 24, 2005
                                    Although all known Pellucidar true humans speak the
                                    same language, there is at least one, perhaps a couple
                                    of other languages in current usage.

                                    I was rereading Savage Pellucidar, and the passages
                                    featuring the Black Prehensile Tailed, Saber Toothed
                                    Monkey Men... Probable relatives or variants of the
                                    Pal Ul Don races.

                                    These people speak a different language than standard
                                    Pellucidarean. This is proven when Al-Gilak can
                                    understand and translate their language.

                                    Its noteable in At The Earth's Core, Abner and David
                                    encounter another race of prehensile tailed men, but
                                    they have not learned Pellucidarean at this time, so
                                    we can't tell if these tailed men speak the lingua
                                    franca or something else.

                                    Tarzan of course notes that the Sagoths, and like the
                                    Great Apes of the inner world speak Mangani.

                                    The tailed men may be speaking Mangani, or perhaps a
                                    variant language derived from Mangani, as we see with
                                    the Pal Ul Don's.

                                    Final note: Of five prehensile tailed races, three
                                    are in Pal Ul Don and two in Pellucidar. That implies
                                    a relationship between Pal Ul Don and Pellucidar.

                                    __________________________________________________
                                    Do You Yahoo!?
                                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                    http://mail.yahoo.com
                                  • Saroda Mara
                                    ... Yes. The Xexots use some words that the others do not, but these are additional words, not different words for the same things. ... They would sure be
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Sep 24, 2005
                                      --- In barsoom, Den Valdron wrote:

                                      > Although all known Pellucidar true humans speak the same language,
                                      > there is at least one, perhaps a couple of other languages in
                                      > current usage.

                                      Yes. The Xexots use some words that the others do not, but these are
                                      additional words, not different words for the same things.

                                      > I was rereading Savage Pellucidar, and the passages featuring the
                                      > Black Prehensile Tailed, Saber Toothed Monkey Men... Probable
                                      > relatives or variants of the Pal Ul Don races.

                                      They would sure be relative of the monkey-men from _Core_. Are their
                                      tails prehensile? I don't remember. Related to the D'don seems
                                      likely.

                                      > These people speak a different language than standard
                                      > Pellucidarean. This is proven when Al-Gilak can understand and
                                      > translate their language.

                                      How did Ah-Gilak learn his Pellucidarian? From earlier Human
                                      prisoners of the Sabre-Toothed Men, I guess.

                                      > Its noteable in At The Earth's Core, Abner and David encounter
                                      > another race of prehensile tailed men, but they have not learned
                                      > Pellucidarean at this time, so we can't tell if these tailed men
                                      > speak the lingua franca or something else.

                                      And they are never seen again, so we will never know. Whatever it
                                      was, the Sagoths could talk to them. Actually, the Sagoths seem to
                                      be pretty accomplished linguists: they can speak to Pellucidarian
                                      Humans, to the Mahars (sign language), to each other, and to the
                                      arborial guys.

                                      > Tarzan of course notes that the Sagoths, and like the Great Apes of
                                      > the inner world speak Mangani.

                                      Yes, and Thoar speaks "a little" of it. Interesting.

                                      > The tailed men may be speaking Mangani, or perhaps a variant
                                      > language derived from Mangani, as we see with the Pal Ul Don's.
                                      >
                                      > Final note: Of five prehensile tailed races, three are in Pal Ul
                                      > Don and two in Pellucidar. That implies a relationship between Pal
                                      > Ul Don and Pellucidar.

                                      Implies, yes. My fanfic will have yet another, and drawing from your
                                      work, I will make them not only somewhat like the arborial guys and
                                      Sabre-Tooth Men (was going to do that anyway), but also somewhat like
                                      the D'don. Live in the mountains, in the snow.
                                    • Saroda Mara
                                      I d like to post a link to your language essays at Langmaker2. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/langmaker2 They know a lot more about this sort of thing than I
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Sep 25, 2005
                                        I'd like to post a link to your language essays at Langmaker2.
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/langmaker2

                                        They know a lot more about this sort of thing than I do, and probably
                                        more than you do. More than anybody here, I'd reckon. This is their
                                        gig. What do you think?
                                      • ekman@lysator.liu.se
                                        ... Better yet: Check in at the conlang mailing list: http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/conlang.html That is the real center of conlangning activity on the
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Sep 25, 2005
                                          > I'd like to post a link to your language essays at Langmaker2.
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/langmaker2

                                          Better yet: Check in at the conlang mailing list:

                                          http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/conlang.html

                                          That is the real center of conlangning activity on the Internet. Quite an
                                          amazing group, and very high-volume.

                                          Fredrik
                                        • Den Valdron
                                          Sure thing. It should be informative to have this stuff torn apart by people who know the territory. ... I d like to post a link to your language essays at
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Sep 25, 2005
                                            Sure thing. It should be informative to have this
                                            stuff torn apart by people who know the territory.



                                            --- Saroda Mara <xenophile2002@...> wrote:


                                            ---------------------------------
                                            I'd like to post a link to your language essays at
                                            Langmaker2.
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/langmaker2

                                            They know a lot more about this sort of thing than I
                                            do, and probably
                                            more than you do. More than anybody here, I'd reckon.
                                            This is their
                                            gig. What do you think?




                                            SPONSORED LINKS

                                            Writing book
                                            Writing a book
                                            Writing child book
                                            Book writing software
                                            Science fiction and
                                            fantasy Writing a
                                            book report


                                            ---------------------------------
                                            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                                            Visit your group "barsoom" on the web.

                                            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            barsoom-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                            Terms of Service.


                                            ---------------------------------




                                            __________________________________________________
                                            Do You Yahoo!?
                                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                            http://mail.yahoo.com
                                          • Den Valdron
                                            ... not, but these are additional words, not different words for the same things. The Xexots pose a problem in that, like the Mezops, they seem to be an
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Sep 25, 2005
                                              >Yes. The Xexots use some words that the others do
                                              not, but these are
                                              additional words, not different words for the same
                                              things.

                                              The Xexots pose a problem in that, like the Mezops,
                                              they seem to be an ethnically distinct group.

                                              I was thinking that perhaps Pellucidarean was
                                              universal because all Pellucidareans were the
                                              offspring of a single tribe.

                                              But the Mezops and Xexots pose a problem. If they're
                                              ethnically distinct, they must be either from separate
                                              tribes that entered Pellucidar, in which case, they
                                              should have a distinct language. Or they've been
                                              isolated long enough to develop ethnic distinctions...
                                              but not language distinctions?

                                              > I was rereading Savage Pellucidar, and the passages
                                              featuring the
                                              > Black Prehensile Tailed, Saber Toothed Monkey Men...
                                              Probable
                                              > relatives or variants of the Pal Ul Don races.

                                              They would sure be relative of the monkey-men from
                                              _Core_. Are their
                                              tails prehensile? I don't remember. Related to the
                                              D'don seems
                                              likely.

                                              Definitely Prehensile-Tailed. Almost certainly
                                              relatives of the D'don.

                                              >How did Ah-Gilak learn his Pellucidarian? From
                                              earlier Human
                                              prisoners of the Sabre-Toothed Men, I guess.

                                              According to his own history, Al-Gilak lived with
                                              several human tribes before falling into the hands of
                                              the Sabre-Toothed Men.


                                              > Its noteable in At The Earth's Core, Abner and David
                                              encounter
                                              > another race of prehensile tailed men,

                                              >And they are never seen again, so we will never know.


                                              True. I wonder what the publishing time frames were
                                              for Earth's Core and Tarzan the Terrible? Easy enough
                                              to look up.

                                              >Whatever it
                                              was, the Sagoths could talk to them. Actually, the
                                              Sagoths seem to
                                              be pretty accomplished linguists: they can speak to
                                              Pellucidarian
                                              Humans, to the Mahars (sign language), to each other,
                                              and to the
                                              arborial guys.

                                              This suggests that the Sagoths themselves were fairly
                                              sophisticated creatures.

                                              >Implies, yes. My fanfic will have yet another, and
                                              drawing from your
                                              work, I will make them not only somewhat like the
                                              arborial guys and
                                              Sabre-Tooth Men (was going to do that anyway), but
                                              also somewhat like
                                              the D'don. Live in the mountains, in the snow.

                                              Cool. Wooly? Given the icy conditions, the gripping
                                              pad at the end of the prehensile tail should be a lot
                                              rougher in texture for better grip. Also, under
                                              those conditions, would there be an evolutionary
                                              impetus to a 'fingernail' for better pressure? Or
                                              better yet, a deeply anchored 'claw' for wedging into
                                              cracks or crevices in stone? Scorpion men?






                                              __________________________________________________________
                                              Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
                                            • Saroda Mara
                                              ... Could be. The Korsars would ve learned it from the natives they encountered. ... Seems reasonable enough. ... Seems more likely. ... Nope. Either they,
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Sep 25, 2005
                                                --- In barsoom, Den Valdron wrote:

                                                > The Xexots pose a problem in that, like the Mezops, they seem to be
                                                > an ethnically distinct group.
                                                >
                                                > I was thinking that perhaps Pellucidarean was universal because all
                                                > Pellucidareans were the offspring of a single tribe.

                                                Could be. The Korsars would've learned it from the natives they
                                                encountered.

                                                > But the Mezops and Xexots pose a problem. If they're ethnically
                                                > distinct, they must be either from separate tribes that entered
                                                > Pellucidar, in which case, they should have a distinct language.

                                                Seems reasonable enough.

                                                > Or they've been isolated long enough to develop ethnic
                                                > distinctions...

                                                Seems more likely.

                                                > but not language distinctions?

                                                Nope. Either they, too, got it from some proto-culture (now I'm
                                                thinking of SDF Macross), or something even weirder is going on.

                                                >> I was rereading Savage Pellucidar, and the passages featuring the
                                                >> Black Prehensile Tailed, Saber Toothed Monkey Men...
                                                >> Probable relatives or variants of the Pal Ul Don races.

                                                > They would sure be relative of the monkey-men from _Core_. Are
                                                > their tails prehensile? I don't remember. Related to the D'don
                                                > seems likely.

                                                > Definitely Prehensile-Tailed. Almost certainly relatives of the
                                                > D'don.

                                                Cool. It's been a while. I'm reading _Ant Men_, then will read
                                                Edmund Cooper's _The Overman Culture_. After that, I plan to read
                                                _Core_, then _Lord of the Jungle_, then something else, then
                                                _Pellucidar_, then... Working my way alternately through Tarzan and
                                                Pellucidar until I get to _Tarzan At the Earth's Core_. How to
                                                proceed after that I'm not sure. I should be getting to Gully Jones
                                                or Zanthodon or something like that. I should probably see what I
                                                can find OAK-wise.

                                                >> How did Ah-Gilak learn his Pellucidarian? From earlier Human
                                                >> prisoners of the Sabre-Toothed Men, I guess.

                                                > According to his own history, Al-Gilak lived with several human
                                                > tribes before falling into the hands of the Sabre-Toothed Men.

                                                Ah. Pastiche waiting to happen.

                                                >> Its noteable in At The Earth's Core, Abner and David encounter
                                                >> another race of prehensile tailed men,

                                                >> And they are never seen again, so we will never know.

                                                > True. I wonder what the publishing time frames were for Earth's
                                                > Core and Tarzan the Terrible? Easy enough to look up.

                                                _Terrible_ comes several Tarzan's before TATEC, for whatever that's
                                                worth. Hold on. <google> _Terrible_ in 1921. _Core_ in 1914.
                                                These are the magazine dates.

                                                >> Whatever it was, the Sagoths could talk to them. Actually, the
                                                >> Sagoths seem to be pretty accomplished linguists: they can speak to
                                                >> Pellucidarian Humans, to the Mahars (sign language), to each other,
                                                >> and to the arborial guys.

                                                > This suggests that the Sagoths themselves were fairly sophisticated
                                                > creatures.

                                                Yeah. They are not quite the Mangani Tarzan is used to, for all that
                                                they share the language.

                                                >> Implies, yes. My fanfic will have yet another, and drawing from
                                                >> your work, I will make them not only somewhat like the arborial
                                                >> guys and Sabre-Tooth Men (was going to do that anyway), but also
                                                >> somewhat like the D'don. Live in the mountains, in the snow.

                                                > Cool. Wooly?

                                                Wooly or shaggy.

                                                > Given the icy conditions, the gripping pad at the end of the
                                                > prehensile tail should be a lot rougher in texture for better
                                                > grip.

                                                Seems reasonable.

                                                > Also, under those conditions, would there be an evolutionary
                                                > impetus to a 'fingernail' for better pressure? Or better yet, a
                                                > deeply anchored 'claw' for wedging into cracks or crevices in
                                                > stone? Scorpion men?

                                                EEP! I hadn't considered that, but it makes a scary kind of sense.
                                                I could have them use a pointed stick, held in the tail, instead.
                                              • Den Valdron
                                                ... universal because all ... natives they encountered. True. I think there s no question that the Korsars are European offshoots who ve made it into
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Sep 25, 2005
                                                  > I was thinking that perhaps Pellucidarean was
                                                  universal because all
                                                  > Pellucidareans were the offspring of a single tribe.

                                                  >Could be. The Korsars would've learned it from the
                                                  natives they
                                                  encountered.

                                                  True. I think there's no question that the Korsars
                                                  are European offshoots who've made it into Pellucidar.

                                                  On the other hand, most of the tribes of Pellucidar
                                                  clearly seem to be neolithic humans. They seem to be
                                                  descended from a population or populations whose
                                                  technology included some use of fire and stone tools
                                                  up to spears.

                                                  But the neolithics probably didn't have bows and
                                                  arrows, agriculture or even such tools as atlatl.
                                                  These advances are found in Pellucidar, but not
                                                  uniformly. They probably represent local
                                                  accomplishments, rather than the common heritage rom
                                                  their neolithic forbears.

                                                  Even this is interesting. There can't have been that
                                                  many human colonizations of Pellucidar. An
                                                  Agricultural stone or bronze age culture, think Aztecs
                                                  or Sumerians, would have wound up running the place.
                                                  Or at least, their level of agriculture and technology
                                                  would have spread and wiped out the neolithics.

                                                  Instead, we've got primarily hunter gather societies
                                                  who seem to hone to neolithic technology.

                                                  In the surface world, agricultural economies emerged
                                                  out of several regions and then proceeded to dominate
                                                  most of the planet. Even outside the places that we
                                                  associate with civilization, large areas of North
                                                  America, Asia, India, Africa, etc. were dominated by
                                                  farmers.

                                                  In Pellucidar, there's very little indication that
                                                  agriculture or agricultural societies have caught on.
                                                  There are a few, but the dominant paradigm are
                                                  pastoral hunter gatherers.

                                                  I wonder why? Are plants harder to domesticate in
                                                  Pellucidar? Does the lack of days and seasons make
                                                  structured organized work more difficult? Or do
                                                  predators and herbivores simply obstruct most
                                                  agriculture?

                                                  Its notable that large areas of Pellucidar are simply
                                                  uninhabited. You couldn't say the same thing about
                                                  most of the surface world 10,000 years ago.

                                                  Ah well, stuff to ponder.


                                                  > But the Mezops and Xexots pose a problem. If
                                                  they're ethnically
                                                  > distinct, they must be either from separate tribes
                                                  that entered
                                                  > Pellucidar, in which case, they should have a
                                                  distinct language.

                                                  >Seems reasonable enough.

                                                  > Or they've been isolated long enough to develop
                                                  ethnic
                                                  > distinctions...

                                                  >Seems more likely.

                                                  > but not language distinctions?

                                                  >Nope. Either they, too, got it from some
                                                  proto-culture (now I'm
                                                  thinking of SDF Macross), or something even weirder is
                                                  going on.

                                                  Haven't decided. But something peculiar must be going
                                                  on. Even within short periods of time within ethnic
                                                  groups over narrow distances, languages start to
                                                  diverge strongly. Here, there's no divergence at all.
                                                  In fact, races are diverging but the language
                                                  doesn't? peculiar.



                                                  >or Zanthodon or something like that. I should
                                                  probably see what I
                                                  can find OAK-wise.

                                                  Hmmm. Prince of Peril, either of the Mars Books. Jan
                                                  of the Jungle is pretty good. You can find them all
                                                  on abebooks for pretty reasonable prices. Its the
                                                  shipping that kills.

                                                  Alternately, if you're around even a half decent sized
                                                  city with any kind of used bookstore, you've got a
                                                  shot.


                                                  >> Implies, yes. My fanfic will have yet another, and
                                                  drawing from
                                                  >> your work, I will make them not only somewhat like
                                                  the arborial
                                                  >> guys and Sabre-Tooth Men (was going to do that
                                                  anyway), but also
                                                  >> somewhat like the D'don. Live in the mountains, in
                                                  the snow.

                                                  Here's an interesting thing. One of the characters in
                                                  Savage Pellucidar is named Hodon. Wasn't that the
                                                  name of one of the Don races? Perhaps Pellucidarean
                                                  is another offshoot of Mangani? It's certainly a
                                                  suggestion that the Don might possibly originate in
                                                  Pellucidar.


                                                  > Also, under those conditions, would there be an
                                                  evolutionary
                                                  > impetus to a 'fingernail' for better pressure? Or
                                                  better yet, a
                                                  > deeply anchored 'claw' for wedging into cracks or
                                                  crevices in
                                                  > stone? Scorpion men?

                                                  EEP! I hadn't considered that, but it makes a scary
                                                  kind of sense.
                                                  I could have them use a pointed stick, held in the
                                                  tail, instead.

                                                  Or perhaps braced or tied to the tail, possibly even
                                                  anchored into the bone. I could see, for instance,
                                                  driving metal or bone anchors into the end of the
                                                  tail, and then using that to tie a metal or stone
                                                  piton or hook.

                                                  Other thoughts, if these are Pellucidar Don, then
                                                  their cold climate is high altitude. Which means that
                                                  the air is pretty thin and dry. So, big chests for
                                                  big lungs, and roman noses for the cold arid air.
                                                  And, as with inuit, laplanders and other cold climate
                                                  adapted humans, think short stocky bodies, with thick
                                                  bandy arms and legs.


                                                  ---------------------------------
                                                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                                                  Visit your group "barsoom" on the web.

                                                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                  barsoom-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                  Terms of Service.


                                                  ---------------------------------




                                                  __________________________________________________
                                                  Do You Yahoo!?
                                                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                  http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                • Saroda Mara
                                                  ... Posted. We shall see what we shall see.
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Sep 26, 2005
                                                    --- In barsoom, Den Valdron wrote:

                                                    > Sure thing. It should be informative to have this stuff torn apart
                                                    > by people who know the territory.

                                                    Posted. We shall see what we shall see.
                                                  • Saroda Mara
                                                    ... I will be checking this out once I get home.
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Sep 26, 2005
                                                      --- In barsoom, ekman wrote:

                                                      > Better yet: Check in at the conlang mailing list:
                                                      >
                                                      > http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/conlang.html
                                                      >
                                                      > That is the real center of conlangning activity on the Internet.
                                                      > Quite an amazing group, and very high-volume.
                                                      >
                                                      > Fredrik

                                                      I will be checking this out once I get home.
                                                    • archangelofmars
                                                      What would be really great is if some enterprising conlangers could develope a full-fledged barsoomian tongue! - Shawn
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Sep 26, 2005
                                                        What would be really great is if some enterprising conlangers could
                                                        develope a full-fledged barsoomian tongue!
                                                        - Shawn

                                                        --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "Saroda Mara" <xenophile2002@y...> wrote:
                                                        > --- In barsoom, Den Valdron wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > > Sure thing. It should be informative to have this stuff torn apart
                                                        > > by people who know the territory.
                                                        >
                                                        > Posted. We shall see what we shall see.
                                                      • Den Valdron
                                                        Well, we ve got Klingon and Elvish. ... What would be really great is if some enterprising conlangers could develope a full-fledged barsoomian tongue! - Shawn
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Sep 26, 2005
                                                          Well, we've got Klingon and Elvish.


                                                          --- archangelofmars <archangelofmars@...> wrote:


                                                          ---------------------------------
                                                          What would be really great is if some enterprising
                                                          conlangers could
                                                          develope a full-fledged barsoomian tongue!
                                                          - Shawn

                                                          --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "Saroda Mara"
                                                          <xenophile2002@y...> wrote:
                                                          > --- In barsoom, Den Valdron wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > > Sure thing. It should be informative to have this
                                                          stuff torn apart
                                                          > > by people who know the territory.
                                                          >
                                                          > Posted. We shall see what we shall see.




                                                          ---------------------------------
                                                          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                                                          Visit your group "barsoom" on the web.

                                                          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                          barsoom-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                          Terms of Service.


                                                          ---------------------------------









                                                          __________________________________________________________
                                                          Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
                                                        • Ardalla Varo
                                                          That would be wonderful Shawn! = = = Original message = = =   What would be really great is if some enterprising conlangers could develope a full-fledged
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Sep 26, 2005
                                                            That would be wonderful Shawn!

                                                            = = = Original message = = =

                                                            � What would be really great is if some enterprising conlangers could
                                                            develope a full-fledged barsoomian tongue!
                                                            - Shawn

                                                            --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "Saroda Mara" <xenophile2002@y...> wrote:
                                                            >--- In barsoom, Den Valdron wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > > Sure thing. It should be informative to have this stuff torn apart
                                                            > > by people who know the territory.
                                                            >
                                                            >Posted.� We shall see what we shall see.




                                                            SPONSORED LINKS
                                                            Writing book Writing a book Writing child book
                                                            Book writing software Science fiction and fantasy Writing a book
                                                            report
                                                            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                            �Visit your group "barsoom" on the web.
                                                            � �To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                            barsoom-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                            � �Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                                                            ___________________________________________________________
                                                            Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software.
                                                            Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com

                                                            _________________________________________________________________
                                                            On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
                                                            get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
                                                          • ekman@lysator.liu.se
                                                            ... I have actually been thinking about doing something along those lines myself. If I ever do it, it will not be completed for several more years, but maybe
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Sep 29, 2005
                                                              > What would be really great is if some enterprising conlangers could
                                                              > develope a full-fledged barsoomian tongue!

                                                              I have actually been thinking about doing something along those lines
                                                              myself. If I ever do it, it will not be completed for several more years,
                                                              but maybe sometime in the future. I am sure it would be fun and I would
                                                              probably learn a lot from it.

                                                              However, it is important to always differentiate between Burroughs'
                                                              Barsoomian (which will never be more than the very limited sketch that we
                                                              only know indirectly through the books) and any extensions of that sketch,
                                                              which would be almost entirely the product of whoever produced it,
                                                              regardless of how faithful it is to Burroughs' materials.

                                                              Fredrik
                                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.