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Barsoom Question: How strong are Earthmen on Mars?

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  • bailywolf
    For my first post here, a question: Is there ever any kind of explicit indication on just how powerful an earth-born human becomes when transported to Barsoom,
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 1, 2004
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      For my first post here, a question:

      Is there ever any kind of explicit indication on just how powerful an
      earth-born human becomes when transported to Barsoom, or is John
      Carter's physical magnification more a matter of his own unique
      makeup (and ERB's dramatic needs)? Or are his physical powers
      narrowly focused? For example, he has awesome leaping abilities...
      but can he lift and carry more weight than normal, and if so, how
      much?

      What other advantages does an Earthman enjoy on ERB's Mars?

      I'd apreciate any insight.

      Thanks

      -B
    • Ghak
      ... Carter is actually no more powerful on Barsoom than he is on Earth. He is just more powerful than a Barsoomian native is, because Carter has had to
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 1, 2004
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        At 07:10 PM 3/1/04 +0000, bailywolf wrote:
        >Is there ever any kind of explicit indication on just how powerful an
        >earth-born human becomes when transported to Barsoom, or is John
        >Carter's physical magnification more a matter of his own unique
        >makeup (and ERB's dramatic needs)? Or are his physical powers
        >narrowly focused? For example, he has awesome leaping abilities...
        >but can he lift and carry more weight than normal, and if so, how
        >much?

        Carter is actually no more powerful on Barsoom than he is on Earth. He is
        just more powerful than a Barsoomian native is, because Carter has had to
        contend with Earth's higher gravity.

        He wouldn't be able to lift any more weight on Barsoom, but he would be
        able to lift a greater mass, since a given mass would weigh less on Barsoom
        than it would on Earth.

        Ghak
      • Ray Boemler
        ... Best I can offer my friend is to consider how strong the average in shape man is on Earth right now. He can standing jump 2-3 up, 4-5 out, and running
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 1, 2004
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          --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "bailywolf" <Bailywolf@y...> wrote:
          > For my first post here, a question:
          > Is there ever any kind of explicit indication on just how powerful
          > earth-born human becomes when transported to Barsoom, or is John
          > Carter's physical magnification more a matter of his own unique
          > makeup (and ERB's dramatic needs)? Or are his physical powers
          > narrowly focused? For example, he has awesome leaping abilities...
          > but can he lift and carry more weight than normal, and if so, how
          > much?
          > What other advantages does an Earthman enjoy on ERB's Mars?
          > I'd apreciate any insight.
          > Thanks
          > -B

          Best I can offer my friend is to consider how strong the average in
          shape man is on Earth right now. He can standing jump 2-3' up, 4-5'
          out, and running jump 10-12'. Now imagine that same guy, same build
          and muscle, but change his wieght to 10-15lbs total. Now he is the
          weight of a small dog or a large cat with a full grown mans'
          strength. That is esentially what John Carter has going for him.

          On Mars he is the same man but with less restrictions. So to be
          direct I do not know a point value to assign to your question.

          Applied strength of 5 men maybe? He isn't stronger than a human, he
          is just stronger there on Mars. A Martian 4 passenger car, looks to
          have the mass of an Earth car, but to John it only weighs 100-
          125lbs. Think of playing Marco Polo in the pool. Everyone else has
          to stay in the water and you are always out on dry land. You are
          faster, can jump much farther, etc. Same thing.

          Hope that helped.

          Ray Boemler
          www.peanutbutterjellyfish.com
        • bailywolf
          Did ERB base Carter s leaping and proportionate strength on any actual figures on the surface gravity of Mars vs Earth, or did he just wing it for the sake of
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 1, 2004
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            Did ERB base Carter's leaping and proportionate strength on any
            actual figures on the surface gravity of Mars vs Earth, or did he
            just wing it for the sake of the story?

            Mars has roughly .38 gravities at an average surface... does this
            mean John was effectively 62% stronger (yeah yeah, I know the
            mass/weight thing doesn't convert exactly, but go with me)? Or did
            ERB just make up a figure? When was the surface gravity of Mars
            known (at least in theory), and did ERB use it in his Barsoom stories?

            Or did ERB EVER say just how much Carter's physical abilities were
            magnified by the disparity in gravity and atmospheric pressure?

            -B

            --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Boemler"
            <peanutbutterjellyfish@y...> wrote:
            > --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "bailywolf" <Bailywolf@y...> wrote:
            > > For my first post here, a question:
            > > Is there ever any kind of explicit indication on just how
            powerful
            > > earth-born human becomes when transported to Barsoom, or is John
            > > Carter's physical magnification more a matter of his own unique
            > > makeup (and ERB's dramatic needs)? Or are his physical powers
            > > narrowly focused? For example, he has awesome leaping
            abilities...
            > > but can he lift and carry more weight than normal, and if so, how
            > > much?
            > > What other advantages does an Earthman enjoy on ERB's Mars?
            > > I'd apreciate any insight.
            > > Thanks
            > > -B
            >
            > Best I can offer my friend is to consider how strong the average in
            > shape man is on Earth right now. He can standing jump 2-3' up, 4-
            5'
            > out, and running jump 10-12'. Now imagine that same guy, same
            build
            > and muscle, but change his wieght to 10-15lbs total. Now he is the
            > weight of a small dog or a large cat with a full grown mans'
            > strength. That is esentially what John Carter has going for him.
            >
            > On Mars he is the same man but with less restrictions. So to be
            > direct I do not know a point value to assign to your question.
            >
            > Applied strength of 5 men maybe? He isn't stronger than a human,
            he
            > is just stronger there on Mars. A Martian 4 passenger car, looks
            to
            > have the mass of an Earth car, but to John it only weighs 100-
            > 125lbs. Think of playing Marco Polo in the pool. Everyone else
            has
            > to stay in the water and you are always out on dry land. You are
            > faster, can jump much farther, etc. Same thing.
            >
            > Hope that helped.
            >
            > Ray Boemler
            > www.peanutbutterjellyfish.com
          • leathem12603
            Just to put in my two cents: The gravity on Mars has an accelleration of 3.7 meters per second squared, as compared to that of earth s which is 9.8 m/sec^2.
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 2, 2004
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              Just to put in my two cents: The gravity on Mars has an accelleration
              of 3.7 meters per second squared, as compared to that of earth's which
              is 9.8 m/sec^2. That's a ratio of 0.377. that means that John Carter,
              if he weighed say 80Kg on earth would weigh only 30.3Kg on Barsoom.
              However, that's not the sole answer. Don't forget that weight is
              simply mass times gravity. When you jump, not only are you overcoming
              the pull of gravity, but you are accelerating your mass from standing
              to some velocity, and that's where a lot of the strength comes in.
              JC's mass remains the same whether he's on Barsoom or on Earth. It's
              the same reasoning that makes the work in space, for example on the
              Hubble telescope, so tedious: there may be no gravity, but there's a
              lot of mass to move around, including accelerating and decelerating
              it.

              That said, though, John Carter's muscles would be much larger than
              those of the average Barsoomian since for all his life he had to
              support so much more weight (downward force due to the effect of
              Earth's gravity on his mass) than they did, and the force developed by
              a muscle is proportional to the square of it's cross-sectional area.
              So he'd be able to exert a lot more force on his mass than they would,
              and with less downward force he'd be able to jump considerably higher;
              but not simply 2.7 (1/0.38) times as high. He'd also be a lot stronger
              than the everage Barsoomian, but, due to mass considerations, not any
              faster.

              Did ERB know this when he wrote POM? Perhaps. In Percival Lowell's
              1895 book "Mars", he wrote: "Knowing his [Mar's] mass, we know his
              average density, since to find it we have but to divide his mass by
              his volume. It proves to be 72/100 of that of the Earth. We also learn
              the force of gravity at his surface, inasmuch as this is directly as
              his mass and inversely as the square of his radius. It comes out
              38/100 of that of the Earth. In consequence, all things there would
              weigh but 38/100 of their weight on earth; a man, for example,
              weighing 150 pounds here would weigh but 56 pounds if transported to
              the surface of Mars, and all manual labor would be lightened threefold."

              Leathem

              >--- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "bailywolf" <Bailywolf@y...> wrote:
              > Did ERB base Carter's leaping and proportionate strength on any
              > actual figures on the surface gravity of Mars vs Earth, or did he
              > just wing it for the sake of the story?
              >
              > Mars has roughly .38 gravities at an average surface... does this
              > mean John was effectively 62% stronger (yeah yeah, I know the
              > mass/weight thing doesn't convert exactly, but go with me)? Or did
              > ERB just make up a figure? When was the surface gravity of Mars
              > known (at least in theory), and did ERB use it in his Barsoom
              stories?
              >
              > Or did ERB EVER say just how much Carter's physical abilities were
              > magnified by the disparity in gravity and atmospheric pressure?
              >
              > -B
              >
              > --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Boemler"
              > <peanutbutterjellyfish@y...> wrote:
              > > --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "bailywolf" <Bailywolf@y...>
              wrote:
              > > > For my first post here, a question:
              > > > Is there ever any kind of explicit indication on just how
              > powerful
              > > > earth-born human becomes when transported to Barsoom, or is
              John
              > > > Carter's physical magnification more a matter of his own unique
              > > > makeup (and ERB's dramatic needs)? Or are his physical powers
              > > > narrowly focused? For example, he has awesome leaping
              > abilities...
              > > > but can he lift and carry more weight than normal, and if so,
              how
              > > > much?
              > > > What other advantages does an Earthman enjoy on ERB's Mars?
              > > > I'd apreciate any insight.
              > > > Thanks
              > > > -B
              > >
              > > Best I can offer my friend is to consider how strong the average
              in
              > > shape man is on Earth right now. He can standing jump 2-3' up, 4-
              > 5'
              > > out, and running jump 10-12'. Now imagine that same guy, same
              > build
              > > and muscle, but change his wieght to 10-15lbs total. Now he is
              the
              > > weight of a small dog or a large cat with a full grown mans'
              > > strength. That is esentially what John Carter has going for him.
              > >
              > > On Mars he is the same man but with less restrictions. So to be
              > > direct I do not know a point value to assign to your question.
              > >
              > > Applied strength of 5 men maybe? He isn't stronger than a human,
              > he
              > > is just stronger there on Mars. A Martian 4 passenger car, looks
              > to
              > > have the mass of an Earth car, but to John it only weighs 100-
              > > 125lbs. Think of playing Marco Polo in the pool. Everyone else
              > has
              > > to stay in the water and you are always out on dry land. You are
              > > faster, can jump much farther, etc. Same thing.
              > >
              > > Hope that helped.
              > >
              > > Ray Boemler
              > > www.peanutbutterjellyfish.com
            • bailywolf
              Thanks! This is what I was looking for... I was trying to figure out if ERB had based Carter s physical abilities on something close to real (then theoretical)
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 2, 2004
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                Thanks!

                This is what I was looking for... I was trying to figure out if ERB
                had based Carter's physical abilities on something close to real
                (then theoretical) physical conditions, or if he had just winged it
                and given Carter the kind of physical powers he needed for the story.

                It would seem a bit of both.

                Again, thanks.

                -B

                --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "leathem12603" <leathem12603@o...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Just to put in my two cents: The gravity on Mars has an
                accelleration
                > of 3.7 meters per second squared, as compared to that of earth's
                which
                > is 9.8 m/sec^2. That's a ratio of 0.377. that means that John
                Carter,
                > if he weighed say 80Kg on earth would weigh only 30.3Kg on Barsoom.
                > However, that's not the sole answer. Don't forget that weight is
                > simply mass times gravity. When you jump, not only are you
                overcoming
                > the pull of gravity, but you are accelerating your mass from
                standing
                > to some velocity, and that's where a lot of the strength comes in.
                > JC's mass remains the same whether he's on Barsoom or on Earth. It's
                > the same reasoning that makes the work in space, for example on the
                > Hubble telescope, so tedious: there may be no gravity, but there's a
                > lot of mass to move around, including accelerating and decelerating
                > it.
                >
                > That said, though, John Carter's muscles would be much larger
                than
                > those of the average Barsoomian since for all his life he had to
                > support so much more weight (downward force due to the effect of
                > Earth's gravity on his mass) than they did, and the force developed
                by
                > a muscle is proportional to the square of it's cross-sectional area.
                > So he'd be able to exert a lot more force on his mass than they
                would,
                > and with less downward force he'd be able to jump considerably
                higher;
                > but not simply 2.7 (1/0.38) times as high. He'd also be a lot
                stronger
                > than the everage Barsoomian, but, due to mass considerations, not
                any
                > faster.
                >
                > Did ERB know this when he wrote POM? Perhaps. In Percival
                Lowell's
                > 1895 book "Mars", he wrote: "Knowing his [Mar's] mass, we know his
                > average density, since to find it we have but to divide his mass by
                > his volume. It proves to be 72/100 of that of the Earth. We also
                learn
                > the force of gravity at his surface, inasmuch as this is directly as
                > his mass and inversely as the square of his radius. It comes out
                > 38/100 of that of the Earth. In consequence, all things there would
                > weigh but 38/100 of their weight on earth; a man, for example,
                > weighing 150 pounds here would weigh but 56 pounds if transported to
                > the surface of Mars, and all manual labor would be lightened
                threefold."
                >
                > Leathem
                >
                > >--- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "bailywolf" <Bailywolf@y...>
                wrote:
                > > Did ERB base Carter's leaping and proportionate strength on any
                > > actual figures on the surface gravity of Mars vs Earth, or did he
                > > just wing it for the sake of the story?
                > >
                > > Mars has roughly .38 gravities at an average surface... does this
                > > mean John was effectively 62% stronger (yeah yeah, I know the
                > > mass/weight thing doesn't convert exactly, but go with me)? Or
                did
                > > ERB just make up a figure? When was the surface gravity of Mars
                > > known (at least in theory), and did ERB use it in his Barsoom
                > stories?
                > >
                > > Or did ERB EVER say just how much Carter's physical abilities
                were
                > > magnified by the disparity in gravity and atmospheric pressure?
                > >
                > > -B
                > >
                > > --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Boemler"
                > > <peanutbutterjellyfish@y...> wrote:
                > > > --- In barsoom@yahoogroups.com, "bailywolf" <Bailywolf@y...>
                > wrote:
                > > > > For my first post here, a question:
                > > > > Is there ever any kind of explicit indication on just how
                > > powerful
                > > > > earth-born human becomes when transported to Barsoom, or is
                > John
                > > > > Carter's physical magnification more a matter of his own
                unique
                > > > > makeup (and ERB's dramatic needs)? Or are his physical
                powers
                > > > > narrowly focused? For example, he has awesome leaping
                > > abilities...
                > > > > but can he lift and carry more weight than normal, and if so,
                > how
                > > > > much?
                > > > > What other advantages does an Earthman enjoy on ERB's Mars?
                > > > > I'd apreciate any insight.
                > > > > Thanks
                > > > > -B
                > > >
                > > > Best I can offer my friend is to consider how strong the average
                > in
                > > > shape man is on Earth right now. He can standing jump 2-3' up,
                4-
                > > 5'
                > > > out, and running jump 10-12'. Now imagine that same guy, same
                > > build
                > > > and muscle, but change his wieght to 10-15lbs total. Now he is
                > the
                > > > weight of a small dog or a large cat with a full grown mans'
                > > > strength. That is esentially what John Carter has going for
                him.
                > > >
                > > > On Mars he is the same man but with less restrictions. So to
                be
                > > > direct I do not know a point value to assign to your question.
                > > >
                > > > Applied strength of 5 men maybe? He isn't stronger than a
                human,
                > > he
                > > > is just stronger there on Mars. A Martian 4 passenger car,
                looks
                > > to
                > > > have the mass of an Earth car, but to John it only weighs 100-
                > > > 125lbs. Think of playing Marco Polo in the pool. Everyone
                else
                > > has
                > > > to stay in the water and you are always out on dry land. You
                are
                > > > faster, can jump much farther, etc. Same thing.
                > > >
                > > > Hope that helped.
                > > >
                > > > Ray Boemler
                > > > www.peanutbutterjellyfish.com
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